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susannewortmann
At least Kleermaker and I have one thing in common then! Mick Taylor can replace Woodie ANY time in my opinion! Woodie is not even good enough to tune Mick's guitar!! (uh Mick Taylor I am talking about, ANY person can tune Mick (Jagger's) guitar! LOL )

I join you both on that sentiment.

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susannewortmann
Wouldn't mind pampering Christiano Sr. :-)

Hopefully not on this one! ;-)

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susannewortmann
You mean Cech from Chelsea??

Who else?

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susannewortmann
Where was HE this tournament?

At home. Even the greatest goalkeepers can't win a match by themselves.

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susannewortmann
Van der Sar is retired

He still plays for Manchester United.

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susannewortmann
and the Dutchies new guy was pretty good but not stable has the goal agaisnt Uruguay was a big failure

Agreed, which is why I didn't claim he was the best goalkeeper of the tournament.

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susannewortmann
and so was this goal!

This goal being which goal?

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susannewortmann
And uh Spain wasn't kicked out of the tournament in the group stage, they survived, endured and kicked everyone's ass, even Germanies ass, and you need big (soccer)boots to do that!

But Casillas is still not one of the best goalkeepers.

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susannewortmann
I just read that the Dutch team will be decorated by the Queen and prime minister...for their onslaught!! ha ha ha ha Appears they go around the canals being cheered on by 100.000 Dutchies for...uh LOSING THE FINALS!! It can only happen in Holland!!! ha ha ha

Right.

This comes from somebody who (correct me if I'm wrong) lives in Germany, the country that invented the term "Vice-Weltmeister".

Need I say more?

Dunno who invented the word don't care at least WE won it multiple times so don't try to win this discussion!

...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010-07-13 18:14 by TooMuchAlcohol.

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Silver Dagger
Please let's not let this brilliant thread fall into negativity. There can only ever only be one winner in such a tournament and Spain won.

Many of us made some good friends over the last month - and I for one would be happy to meet any of you for a beer the next time the Stones play in London. I'm sure that sentiment goes for many others who contributed such great comments along the way.

I think the last word shouldn't come from me but from the singer of the band we all love and why we're here in the first place. SD

"Brothers and sisters, come on now! That means everybody just cool out. We can cool out, everbody! Everybody be cool, now...Okay, I think we're cool, we can groove."

Well said

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71Tele
kleermaker, it appears we have found something you are even more passionate about than Mick Taylor!

Tele71, there are even more things I'm more passionate about than Mick Taylor and the Dutch national team. One of them is justice, another one not belittling (one of our beloved eastern neighbours seems to have a problem with that).

Anyway, I'm thinking of our Spanish comrade Carlitos now. It's almost Tuesday evening in both our countries and we still have nothing heard of him. That's a bit strange to me. I hope everything is all right and that he's still partying or working on his pics.

The Dutch always feel belittled, especially by us Germans, for no reason as we Germans admire the Dutch for many reasons and so do I, that's what I tell all the time. And if you believe in justice, kleermaker, then don't try to defend the way the Dutchies played Sunday and take your defeat like a man and not like a whining baby lion! ;-)

To make it up to you HOLLAND! HOLLAND!! HOLLAND!!! And next month when we are celebrating LIFE with friends in Egmond an See I will wear my orange bikini!!! Especially for you! ;-)

I just watched the celebration in Amsterdam. It was great. Nederland is happy that they are nr. 2 in the world. Congratulations again to nr. 1 Spain.

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susannewortmann
The Dutch always feel belittled, especially by us Germans, for no reason as we Germans admire the Dutch for many reasons and so do I, that's what I tell all the time. And if you believe in justice, kleermaker, then don't try to defend the way the Dutchies played Sunday and take your defeat like a man and not like a whining baby lion! ;-)

To make it up to you HOLLAND! HOLLAND!! HOLLAND!!! And next month when we are celebrating LIFE with friends in Egmond an See I will wear my orange bikini!!! Especially for you! ;-)

Some Germans need for some strange reason to belittle us. I don't feel belittled, just stating a fact. Of course most Germans admire our country. That's very understandable, though not necessary and also not always just. I cannot take our defeat otherwise than as a man. But I keep on saying the same thing as our friend Max, that we did struggle like lions during the final and that no one got hurt. Of course I rather would have seen our team play more beautifully and win the cup. But I respect their trying and they almost succeeded. I also have no problem at all to congratulate our Spanish friends.

Well Susanne, enjoy our beaches and hopefully you have really good wheather. You easily can wear your German bathing suit. We're used to that and it's totally okay. Much respect here for your team. We only were a bit disappointed about your team's second last match, but they surely compensated for that during their last match.

PS: Maybe you have another 'interesting' discussion about the final with your Dutch friends here in Egmond aan Zee. It would be interesting to know if you would use the same 'arguments' that you've used here and how your Dutch friends would react on them.

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susannewortmann

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susannewortmann
Wouldn't mind pampering Christiano Sr. :-)

Hopefully not on this one! ;-)

Um...no. I was referring to your preference for Taylor (as a guitarist, that is).



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010-07-13 19:36 by 71Tele.

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susannewortmann
Dunno who invented the word don't care at least WE won it multiple times so don't try to win this discussion!

And how is this relevant? Don't change the subject!

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Rolling Hansie
I just watched the celebration in Amsterdam. It was great. Nederland is happy that they are nr. 2 in the world.

DAMN RIGHT !!!!
Congratulations to the Nederlands Hansie, you guys kick ass.

Still surprise and upset with Carlitos.
Chico donde te has metido?

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71Tele

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FreeBird

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71Tele
The late Spanish goal was a thing of beauty

It wasn't.

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71Tele
as was Casillas' performance in goal for Spain.

It wasn't. I find Casillas EXTREMELY overrated. Spain's defeat against Switzerland was his fault.

Manuel Neuer was probably the best goalkeeper of the tournament.

Maybe we saw different games. Casillas made a couple of game-saving saves. Overrated? How many goals were scored against him by Germany and Holland combined? That would be zero.

as much as i like neuer, i truely believe spain wouldn´t be world champion without casillas. his saves are a huge part of that success. ask robben.

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susannewortmann
The Dutch always feel belittled, especially by us Germans, for no reason as we Germans admire the Dutch for many reasons and so do I, that's what I tell all the time. And if you believe in justice, kleermaker, then don't try to defend the way the Dutchies played Sunday and take your defeat like a man and not like a whining baby lion! ;-)

To make it up to you HOLLAND! HOLLAND!! HOLLAND!!! And next month when we are celebrating LIFE with friends in Egmond an See I will wear my orange bikini!!! Especially for you! ;-)

Can we have some photos please susanne!

Just a short impression of how happy holland is with the silver medal.





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kleermaker

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susannewortmann
The Dutch always feel belittled, especially by us Germans, for no reason as we Germans admire the Dutch for many reasons and so do I, that's what I tell all the time. And if you believe in justice, kleermaker, then don't try to defend the way the Dutchies played Sunday and take your defeat like a man and not like a whining baby lion! ;-)

To make it up to you HOLLAND! HOLLAND!! HOLLAND!!! And next month when we are celebrating LIFE with friends in Egmond an See I will wear my orange bikini!!! Especially for you! ;-)

Well Susanne, enjoy our beaches and hopefully you have really good wheather. You easily can wear your German bathing suit.

They don't wear them. They usually go naked!><

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Silver Dagger

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susannewortmann
I will wear my orange bikini!!!

Can we have some photos please susanne!

Oh ja, das wäre schön, bitte bitte bitte

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Silver Dagger
They don't wear them. They usually go naked

LOL Silver Dagger, have you been in Holland that much ?

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Rolling Hansie

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Silver Dagger
They don't wear them. They usually go naked

LOL Silver Dagger, have you been in Holland that much ?

No but I've just come back from Formentera, near Ibiza, and the little island is full of German nudists. Deutsche wurst, busen and viel mehr habe ich jeden Tag gesehen. Enough to make a sailor blush.

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stoneswashed77

as much as i like neuer, i truely believe spain wouldn´t be world champion without casillas. his saves are a huge part of that success. ask robben.

Stoneswashed77, you're totally right (this report confirms your remark).

Now Tele71 and all those people (susannewortmann and others) who keep on talking about ugly playing Holland, read this and learn something about (Dutch) football that you didn't know yet.

This is a fair and balanced report from Australia, a truly first class sports country. The second report (after the NYT report) on the web that I stumbled across (while reading a Dutch quality paper) of an international paper that has it right. No one can say any longer that "the whole world has the opinion that Holland played unfair and ugly". That's simply proven false.

Max, you and I are just right. Read this and feel good. We have no reason at all to feel ashamed about our team. They did a very good job and we are simply right, whatever all those other so called experts and pundits want you to believe. Enjoy the read!

[www.brisbanetimes.com.au]

And here is a short impression from the party in Madrid, yesterday





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Silver Dagger
Deutsche wurst, busen and viel mehr habe ich jeden Tag gesehen.

Na, da kann mann guten Appetit bekommen

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There are always 3 sides to every story ..
Your side, My side ..and what really happened.
There are many people talking about the WC final,
and so is Dan Silkstone. Thanks to Kleer for posting a link, might as well post it for the record, eh?

[www.brisbanetimes.com.au]

brisbane times
by DAN SILKSTONE
July 13, 2010 - 10:29AM
World Cup 2010
Journalism, they say, is the first draft of history but the second and third drafts follow soon after.

Before too long you've got an authorised mini-series starring Richard Roxburgh and there's no turning back.

And when it comes to the biggest event in World Sport - the World Cup final - the historical die was cast, seemingly forever, about 29 minutes into a two-hour long match.

Except, of course, the first draft of history in this case is wrong. Or at least overly simplistic. Newspaper readers all over the world have already been told that Holland kicked their way to disgrace against free-flowing Spain in Monday morning's match. Generations to come will no doubt get this version also, distilled to a simple good versus evil schematic by intervening decades and hazy nostalgia.

The night that Total Football was betrayed and orange was shown, simply, to be a combination of yellow and red. The night that Holland set fire to its own beautiful legacy. That art and creativity triumphed over cynicism and violence.

Except it didn't and it wasn't - not from where Balls was watching. What a horribly unfair way to see quite an absorbing match.

Twenty nine minutes was all it took. On 29 minutes, after a host of Dutchmen had already contributed some fairly unsophisticated challenges, Manchester City's Nigel De Jong raised his boot as the ball flew in and sprigged Xabi Alonso square in the chest. It looked awful, it was awful, but it was not necessarily indicative of the entire, 120-minute match and the - entirely legitimate - tactics the Dutch set out to play.

Anyone who has ever played team sport will know that Dutch coach Bert Van Marwijk did not send his men out to kick people in the chest. De Jong's act was an ill-timed, split second decision that he should and will regret. Maybe it should have earned him a red card - but that is a debatable point and it is not Holland's fault that it did not.

Certainly Van Marwijk did send his team out to be aggressive and to try and frustrate and jostle Spain. As he rightly should have. Where Balls take issue is with the idea that Holland played anti-football. It has already been repeated so many times that it is now gospel truth: only one side came to play football at the final. The side that tried to play football won. Justice was done.

It was said by the TV commentators, by the online reports, by just about every single newspaper account of the final. What rot.

The underappreciated truth of the final is that Spain - the greatest collection of talent at this tournament - did not play well. The reason this is so is because it was not allowed to. It is said the Spanish dominated - in possession terms they may have. But in terms of executing their gameplan and imposing the sort of match they wanted, Holland out-performed their opponents at Soccer City. Clearly.

Spain wanted to control the ball and use weight of possession to debilitate their opponents, they hoped to demoralise Holland as they had a German side that had been a juggernaut until it ran into Spain and could not get near the ball.

To accept these terms - as many now appear to wish Holland had - would have been suicide. The Dutch, instead, tried to play a different way. Their plan was to jostle and disrupt Spain's passing rhythm, to aggressively intrude into their midield space, deny time on the ball and take away the ease of ball movement that typifies the way Vicente Del Bosque's men like to play.

If they could get to half-time level pegging, Holland would have believed, the match could break their way. The pressure was on Spain to make the play and get the goal. The longer this did not happen the more recklessly they would commit forward and the sole weakness in an excellent Spanish defence - pace through the middle - could be exploited by the lightning-quick Arjen Robben on the counter.

It so nearly worked. In truth, Spain's best player on the night was probably goalkeeper Iker Casillas. His adroitness off the line saved them three times from Robben's deadly runs.

It was, though, all a bit much for Craig Foster in the SBS commentary box. The sense of outrage he consistently mustered throughout a lamentably one-sided call was enough to gradually turn Balls from disinterested neutral to sudden Oranje fan.

Foster's love for the beautiful game played the beautiful way makes him a passionate advocate and is a welcome intrusion into the fence-sitting that characterises much punditry. But you sometimes fancy he would send out the Melbourne Knights reserve team to play against Spain with orders to keep possession, stroke the ball around and break down the defence with triangular interplay. And what would that achieve?

Spain were good for their tournament win and played some lovely stuff - particularly in the semi-final against Germany. But look at this match in totality. That's all we're saying.

Look at the fact that Andres Iniesta had one of his quietest games for the tournament. Look at his blatant, penalty-seeking dive just minutes before his match-winning goal. Look at Spain's five yellow card for the match and the - unpunished - Carlos Puyol challenge that stopped Holland taking the lead and should have earned a send-off. Is that pure, unimpeachable foobtall?

Everton's John Heitinga earned a yellow card on 56 minutes for a bad tackle on Villa and a second (and red) on 109 minutes for another bad challenge. In between - a span of 53 minutes (that's more than a half) - Holland received two yellow cards and one of them was for dissent. Spain copped two as well.

After half-time, the Dutch did play football, and very good football at that. Certainly it was counter-attacking football but, rest assured, it is not easy to play that way against an opponent as good as the furia roja. The Dutch were compact and organised, they functioned as a unit and played to their strengths. Sitting on a host of yellow cards from the first half they walked a disciplinary tightrope with admirable nerve.

Their tactics were the right tactics and they so nearly worked. The suggestion that they are not legitimate tactics is deeply unfair. This had been talked up as the Cruyff final, pitting the inventor of total football against the nation that - through Cruyff's long involvement at Barcelona - adopted and perfected it. In truth, with a pragmatic focus on defensive organisation long ago having swept through Dutch football and with Inter Milan's Wesley Sneijder ensconced in midfield, it was more like Cruyff versus Mourinho.

For the second time in a couple of months, then, a major final proved that the Spanish way - the Barcelona way - produces beautiful football but that is not always the most effective way. Certainly it is not the only valid form of the game. Defence is football too.

Spain were deserved winners and the Dutch could not claim to be aggrieved that they lost. They could, though, take issue with the idea - already now entrenched - that they did not play football. They gave it their best shot and they were not good enough. Sometimes it really is that simple



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2010-07-13 23:13 by Max'sKansasCity.

I am ALIVE!!!!!!!!!!!!
Vaaaaaaaaaaamosssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Thanks to Jordi, Llargueras, Papo, SwayStones,Gazza, Rockandosis, Shortfatfanny, 1962, The Stones, Max´s Kansas, Rolling Hansie, 71Tele,Kleermaker, Silver Dagger,Guitar Bastard and many more, sorry too much names but I have you in my heart!!
I woke up today in the evening, I worked next day of the Final, I didn´t sleep that night, Monday, all night drinking all the time and arrive on the beach totally broken and naked, the beach over here in Santa Cruz that night, don´t know probably around 25000 people, really don´t know, so at 7am I hada to work, went there but don´t know how I did it, after that doing more home stuff and at night that magnificent party in Madrid on tv broadcasted, more than 2 million people on the streets. By the way, same day of the FINAL, Empire State Building changed his colour for ours, first time since FIFA WC!!! I´ll show pics later. So at night again on tV more cold beers and tapas, today in the early morning more stuff to do and around 2pm going to work at the hospital, I arrived a n hour ago. Jordi phoned me, warning me about people concerned. I really appreciate you guys, we really had a good time with this thread in my opinion, because I believe Jordi posted, BEST TEAM WON, and best football as well, PERIOD!! No doubt about it, this generation of players are really amazing and football conoceiours just said and are in the papers and TV, football is really happy, because since Brazil 70´s there´re no team in the world as Spain, with this style of football, so spectacular, clean, nice and fair, I remind you amigos, first yellow card to Spain in 1/4 Finals!!! and about the Final, the Holland team just were waiting for any mistake of the Spaniard, they were butchers and complety shocked the way they did, they didn´t play, they were really violent!!!
But if you want Hollanders, we won because the Octopus, Paul, why? because he has 8 tentacles, we scored at 116 minutes, 1 plus 1 plus six is 8, we won the final at the 8th match and Iniesta number is number 8!!!!! Really amazing isn´t it????
I met in Tenerife last weekend Annie Laurie, Sway Stones, really amazing lovely woman, what a great people we have over here in IORR´S Ladies and Gentleman!!!
Spain is champion of the world y cojones ya era hora de que lo fueramos ya, tantos años y tantos malos ratos, me acuerdo de mi abuelo hablándome de aquellos grandisimos jugadores como Zarra, Molowny, ,luego los Gento, Di Stefano, Juanitos, Pirris, Butragueños, Hierros and now this generation of players from another planet, down the earth, nothing to see as Ronaldo or Beckham´s.
Big hug to those of you believe in this kind of football and supported Spain,this ´s the way youngers can follow this dream.
Big hug to all of you and I´ll problaby got tired of so many pictures very soon.
Vaaaaaaaaaaamossssssssssssssss!!!!!
Carlitos
¡¡¡Llargueras nos tomaremos unas cañas en Barcelona pronto!!!!
VISCA ESPAÑA!!!! ¡¡¡Y VIVA DON PEDRO COÑO!!!!!!

Don´t know if you noticed, Paul the octopus by the way english is getting retired!!!!!!!!

Carlitos
Tenerife

Olé, Olé and Olé for this woman!!!!
The Times look like Spain old times at 50´s writing like this and treating women like shit, what a shame of paper...


Miriam González Durántez claims World Cup coverage was misogynistic
Miriam González Durántez, the Spanish wife of deputy prime minister Nick Clegg, has accused the media of misogyny in its coverage of the World Cup.
And by the way, Forlán and Sneifder Golden and Silver Ball if this WC? with all my respects what about Xavi or Iniesta? My god, like refereers affair in this WC!!!!

Miss González hit out at reports suggesting Spain underperformed in the early stages of the tournament because their goalkeeper had been distracted by his girlfriend.

It was reported that Spanish fans believed goalie Iker Casillas fluffed an easy save in their shock 1-0 defeat to Switzerland because his girlfriend, Sara Carbonero, a television sports reporter, was on the touchline.

Miss González, a partner in a City law firm, claims Spain’s World Cup victory vindicates Casillas, and accused The Times, which covered the story, of patronising Carbonero.

In a letter to the newspaper, she wrote: “Sir, Now that Spain has won the World Cup and Iker Casillas demonstrated on Sunday that he is an outstanding goalkeeper regardless of whether his girlfriend, Sara Carbonero, watches him from the touchline or not, it may be time for you to eat a bit of humble pie.

“Trying to blame Sara for Spain’s initial lacklustre performance while she was simply doing her job (“Spanish inquisition blames WAG after Swiss vanquish the favourites”, June 17) was not worthy of a newspaper that should treat women for who they are and not simply for what their male partners do.”

The Times has stood by it story, insisting that it did nothing wrong by reporting the reaction among Spanish fans.

However, “in a spirit of goodwill”, the newspaper’s editor, James Harding, has replied to Miss González, saying: “Congratulations on your team’s victory in the World Cup.

“You in particular will be glad to know that we scrupulously recognise women for what they are and not what their partners do.

“We are not over fond of humble pie but if you, Sara Carbonero or Iker Casillas are ever passing, please do drop by for a slice of tortilla.”

Carbonero became the focus of anger among some Spanish supporters after Switzerland’s Gelson Fernandes caused one of the biggest upsets of the World Cup by putting a shot past Casillas.

In a live interview after the game, Carbonero, 25, who had been standing behind the goal reporting for Spain’s Telecinco channel, asked her boyfriend bluntly: “How did you manage to muck it up?”

For some, the answer was that he had been distracted by the glamorous reporter, who has been voted the sexiest journalist in the world.

The pair have been dating since they met at last year’s Confederations Cup in South Africa and have featured regularly in Spain’s tabloid press.

The criticism is not the first time Miss González has condemned the media’s treatment of women.

In the run up to the election, she attacked the media’s “frivolous” focus on the fashion choices of the party leaders’ partners and was often absent on the campaign trail, citing the need to work full-time.

When asked in a rare interview whether she thought the coverage was patronising, she said: “Patronising is putting it very diplomatically.”

But in response to a question about the compliments she has received from some writers, the mother-of-three added: “I like to be called clever. Sexy, yes, too – they can continue saying those things.”