well the political squirmishes continue with whatever political agenda.
some good points airing all round i suppose, but having sadly quickly degraded to bomb throwing power points; interesting in it's way...
i myself am going to try to stay out of that and chronicle and learn from others doing the same, the extent and specifics of the unmitigaged catastrophe itself.

points good and bad can and will be made here with and without sense or grace but for me this thing is still happening and imo the criminal activities and gladhanding that led to the blowout would be the key component, aside from watching and reporting as this tragedy extrapolates into a kill zone of historic and unheard of proportions. it is bleeding out. it could bleed out till it's dry and be the most sick and sinful diabolical tradgedy little man could ever cause thus far, at least on this a scale....for me that's the story. and the people and the animals and the eco stystem that are dying is the story.

i don't know if obama's move here is right or wrong; at best it's an important side issue as far as i'm concerned. THE COMPANY DRILLED OVER TWENTY THOUSAND FEET THATS MILES AND MILES AND MILES who knows the interconnectivity of tunnels and oceans of oils and pressure zones and faults and whatever down there?

NO ONE DOES. we are getting burned. hello. we are getting burned.
it's a good time to probably just stop where we are and get this thing stopped and investigated and a whole new set of legal standards and consequences for this horrific disruption and poisionous death escapade for profit.

there is no oil shortage. there is an oil business regulating what the ants pay up to get a chance to move around. here comes the 'market value' crowd. the crowd that WANTS to pay a lotta money for a bad stones show that keeps the riff raff out with those kinds of prices. ha... here comes the what abut the jobs as if these people cared about those workers or those industries. BP pockes are deep; obama got them an INITAL TWENTY BILLION for relief and other purposes.
people who are seemingly more concerned with the lives of the workers in related industries are not really imo. they are making political points that serve THEIR larger issue of deregulation, corporatation worship. the entity with individual RIGHTS but not individual RESPONSIBILITIES.... are points that come to me as i look around at what folks are posting here, aside from reporting on the extrapoloating tragedy and the huge huge commercial corporate effort to erase it from the public conciousness even as it is happening. i'm not gonna get side tracked. the blame game is the blame game. this IS happening .
if peeps really want to surmise in perspective about decades of Presidents who either degraded aspects of legal responsibility in DIRECT RELATION TO THIS SITUATION, not politicking about aftermath leadership qualities of obama particularly, but obama is a target with and without this incident, which he did literally did not cause or contribute to. when ronald (General Electric major military contractor) reagan seized crown with warlord tactics of iran contra etc....barry obama was a high school kid. when george (son of nazi weapons supplier censored by the Senate during world war 2, Senator Prescott Bush) bush hit office with the iraq war one to make kuwait the fifty first state and one of many controlled foreign entities for washing big oil money, Obama was still in college. just sayin. have a nice day



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010-06-22 23:35 by Beelyboy.

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Edith Grove
Obama's knee-jerk reaction to this disaster (banning new drilling) has just been overridden by a Federal judge in New Orleans.

I don't know what's knee jerk about not wanting another one of these disasters. How many rigs are in the gulf in deep water? Have they all been inspected to make sure they don't have the same problem?

It's a knee-jerk reaction because the Idiot In Chief put tens of thousands of people out of work as a result of his REACTION and then, to cover his skinny butt, deigned that BP was going to pay for their losses. Can we make it up as we go along? "Yes, we can!"

We still need the oil but now it's going to have to be delivered and transported on tankers and barges both of which have FAR MORE DISMAL SAFETY RECORDS than the drilling platforms.

Sure we can trust all the other oil companies. Because BP is the only one that was crooked and cheap and concerned with profits only. No other oil comapnies are like that at all of course. Just in case thier wasn't enough sarcasm in that statement. Let me make it clear.

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sweetcharmedlife

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sweetcharmedlife

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Edith Grove
Obama's knee-jerk reaction to this disaster (banning new drilling) has just been overridden by a Federal judge in New Orleans.

I don't know what's knee jerk about not wanting another one of these disasters. How many rigs are in the gulf in deep water? Have they all been inspected to make sure they don't have the same problem?

It's a knee-jerk reaction because the Idiot In Chief put tens of thousands of people out of work as a result of his REACTION and then, to cover his skinny butt, deigned that BP was going to pay for their losses. Can we make it up as we go along? "Yes, we can!"

We still need the oil but now it's going to have to be delivered and transported on tankers and barges both of which have FAR MORE DISMAL SAFETY RECORDS than the drilling platforms.

Sure we can trust all the other oil companies. Because BP is the only one that was crooked and cheap and concerned with profits only. No other oil comapnies are like that at all of course. Just in case thier wasn't enough sarcasm in that statement. Let me make it clear.

Nice deflection. Perhaps you'd care to address what I actually wrote? If you can.

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sweetcharmedlife

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sweetcharmedlife

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Edith Grove
Obama's knee-jerk reaction to this disaster (banning new drilling) has just been overridden by a Federal judge in New Orleans.

I don't know what's knee jerk about not wanting another one of these disasters. How many rigs are in the gulf in deep water? Have they all been inspected to make sure they don't have the same problem?

It's a knee-jerk reaction because the Idiot In Chief put tens of thousands of people out of work as a result of his REACTION and then, to cover his skinny butt, deigned that BP was going to pay for their losses. Can we make it up as we go along? "Yes, we can!"

We still need the oil but now it's going to have to be delivered and transported on tankers and barges both of which have FAR MORE DISMAL SAFETY RECORDS than the drilling platforms.

Sure we can trust all the other oil companies. Because BP is the only one that was crooked and cheap and concerned with profits only. No other oil comapnies are like that at all of course. Just in case thier wasn't enough sarcasm in that statement. Let me make it clear.

Nice deflection. Perhaps you'd care to address what I actually wrote? If you can.

I'm not interested in his skinny butt. You must be a log cabin republican.

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sweetcharmedlife

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Edith Grove
Obama's knee-jerk reaction to this disaster (banning new drilling) has just been overridden by a Federal judge in New Orleans.

I don't know what's knee jerk about not wanting another one of these disasters. How many rigs are in the gulf in deep water? Have they all been inspected to make sure they don't have the same problem?

It's a knee-jerk reaction because the Idiot In Chief put tens of thousands of people out of work as a result of his REACTION and then, to cover his skinny butt, deigned that BP was going to pay for their losses. Can we make it up as we go along? "Yes, we can!"

We still need the oil but now it's going to have to be delivered and transported on tankers and barges both of which have FAR MORE DISMAL SAFETY RECORDS than the drilling platforms.

Is that what Obama said? That BP will pay for the down time?
That doesn't sound reasonable. The 20 billion was a good thing, IMO.

I don't think it's a knee-jerk reaction. The spill is a major catastrophe, caused by human negligence. I think it's the wise thing to do at this point. As someone noted previously, they're only stopping the deep water wells until they can determine their integrity (if that's possible).

Energy should have been Obama's first policy move. Jobs and clean energy to lessen our need for oil/coal. We can't stop using either, but we can lessen our consumption. Obama thought health care would benefit more American's, so he went that way. That's a president that cares about the citizens. Yes We Can.

What's a log cabin Republican? Anybody?

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sweetcharmedlife

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sweetcharmedlife

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sweetcharmedlife

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Edith Grove
Obama's knee-jerk reaction to this disaster (banning new drilling) has just been overridden by a Federal judge in New Orleans.

I don't know what's knee jerk about not wanting another one of these disasters. How many rigs are in the gulf in deep water? Have they all been inspected to make sure they don't have the same problem?

It's a knee-jerk reaction because the Idiot In Chief put tens of thousands of people out of work as a result of his REACTION and then, to cover his skinny butt, deigned that BP was going to pay for their losses. Can we make it up as we go along? "Yes, we can!"

We still need the oil but now it's going to have to be delivered and transported on tankers and barges both of which have FAR MORE DISMAL SAFETY RECORDS than the drilling platforms.

Sure we can trust all the other oil companies. Because BP is the only one that was crooked and cheap and concerned with profits only. No other oil comapnies are like that at all of course. Just in case thier wasn't enough sarcasm in that statement. Let me make it clear.

Nice deflection. Perhaps you'd care to address what I actually wrote? If you can.

I'm not interested in his skinny butt. You must be a log cabin republican.

I don't even know what a log cabin Republican is.

The "skinny butt" was your choice of words. Just didn't see the relevance to the point you were making . . .

And now things could very well get a bit more tense - tropical wave in the Caribbean headed for the Gulf; could be a hurricane by...a few days away anyway. Should know more by Thursday or Friday. Could very well be a hurricane in the Gulf Of Mexico by the first part of next week.

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sweetcharmedlife

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Edith Grove
Obama's knee-jerk reaction to this disaster (banning new drilling) has just been overridden by a Federal judge in New Orleans.

I don't know what's knee jerk about not wanting another one of these disasters. How many rigs are in the gulf in deep water? Have they all been inspected to make sure they don't have the same problem?

It's a knee-jerk reaction because the Idiot In Chief put tens of thousands of people out of work as a result of his REACTION and then, to cover his skinny butt, deigned that BP was going to pay for their losses. Can we make it up as we go along? "Yes, we can!"

We still need the oil but now it's going to have to be delivered and transported on tankers and barges both of which have FAR MORE DISMAL SAFETY RECORDS than the drilling platforms.

What's a log cabin Republican? Anybody?

[online.logcabin.org]

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sweetcharmedlife

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fuman

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sweetcharmedlife

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Edith Grove
Obama's knee-jerk reaction to this disaster (banning new drilling) has just been overridden by a Federal judge in New Orleans.

I don't know what's knee jerk about not wanting another one of these disasters. How many rigs are in the gulf in deep water? Have they all been inspected to make sure they don't have the same problem?

It's a knee-jerk reaction because the Idiot In Chief put tens of thousands of people out of work as a result of his REACTION and then, to cover his skinny butt, deigned that BP was going to pay for their losses. Can we make it up as we go along? "Yes, we can!"

We still need the oil but now it's going to have to be delivered and transported on tankers and barges both of which have FAR MORE DISMAL SAFETY RECORDS than the drilling platforms.

What's a log cabin Republican? Anybody?

[online.logcabin.org]

Oh. Thanks. I wonder if that was meant as a personal insult to me?


"We still need the oil but now it's going to have to be delivered and transported on tankers and barges both of which have FAR MORE DISMAL SAFETY RECORDS than the drilling platforms."

You don't see a HUGE difference here? If a tanker or barge spills, will the spill go on for month after month after month with no plan to contain it?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010-06-23 01:58 by fuman.

Wow, this puts everything into a bit of a historical perspective...if it hadn't been for BP, we might not see this Islamist government in Iran today...VERY interesting read. We reap what we sow...this article from Canada.com:

[communities.canada.com]

If I were superstitious, I would say that the catastrophic situation BP currently finds itself in vis-a-vis the disaster in the Gulf of Mexico is Mossadeq’s curse. This is, after all, not the first time the oil company has made a mess of things in another country.

British Petroleum, the third largest “supermajor” has its origins in Iran. Over 100 years ago, a colonial concession by an inept and corrupt Iranian despot gave full control of Iran’s oil exploration and production to the British for 60 years. Iran was to receive 16 per cent of the declared profit, but lacked any right to review the books. Soon after, the Anglo-Persian Oil Company (APOC) was established in 1909, later renamed the Anglo-Iranian Oil Company (AIOC) in 1935, and then British Petroleum in 1954.

The company plundered Iran’s most valuable resource and viciously exploited Iranian workers who laboured under inhuman conditions and lived in abject poverty. With access to the massive and cheap Iranian oil reserves, the British government substituted coal for oil in the Royal Navy, and in 1914 bought up 51 per cent of the APOC shares. The company then signed a contract, guaranteeing a steady supply of Iranian oil to the British Navy for 30 years at fixed prices.

Apart from supplying almost free oil to the British, for decades Iranian oil revenues provided hundreds of millions of pounds in dividend and taxes to the British government. To collect the meagre share of profit it received, the Iranian government also had to purchase all the products that were used in the vast company from British manufacturers and producers, paying high prices and taxes. The company ruled with utmost arrogance, humiliating Iranians and interfering in all aspects of political life. In 1933, Reza Shah tried to make some changes to the original concession, and although some very minor adjustments were made on paper, almost nothing changed in practice.

Anti-British sentiment and calls for changes in the oil concession led some Iranian MPs in 1950 to call for a 50/50 share of profits, similar to what the U.S. had given Saudi Arabia. The company unequivocally rejected the idea and nationalist sentiments eventually brought the democratically elected government of Dr. Mohammad Mossadeq to power in 1951. Mossadeq nationalized the oil industry and an Iranian company, the National Iranian Oil Company, was put in charge.

In response, the British imposed a brutal embargo on Iran and the AIOC used every trick in the books to topple Mossadeq. Despite the lack of oil revenues because of the embargo, the Mossadeq government survived by issuing government bonds that even poor families managed to buy to support his government. After failing to oust Mossadeq, the AIOC and the British government asked newly elected President Eisenhower for help. The Americans agreed on the condition that they would have a major stake in the shares of Iranian oil, and in 1953 a CIA/MI6 supported coup toppled Mossadeq.

The victors created a consortium and “democratically” divided the Iranian oil among themselves: 40 per cent went to the AIOC, which would soon become British Petroleum, 40 per cent to the American oil giants, 14 per cent to Royal Dutch Shell, and the remaining 6 per cent to the French CFP (compagnie francaise des Petroles), now known as Total. The conditions of the contract were so harsh that even the Shah, who had regained his power after the coup, cried fowl.

BP and the other oil companies benefited from a new round of dictatorship in Iran, while generations of Iranian intellectuals who demanded independence, social justice, and democracy for their country rotted in prisons, or were executed or exiled. Concerned solely with the Iranian nationalists and the political left, BP, the British and American governments, and the Shah himself ignored the threat posed by the mullahs who eventually stole the secular revolution of 1979 and established the present Islamic fundamentalist regime in the country.

BP has created lots of messes of different types and magnitudes around the world. This time it had the bad luck of doing it in the backyard of a more powerful contender, and had to apologize and pay for it. BP never apologized to the Iranian people for the bigger crime of killing their chance of living under a democratically elected secular government in the early 1950s.

Many Iranians sympathize with the American people living in the southern states who are bearing the brunt of BP’s avariciousness, but surely they have no tears to shed for this company.

Here is the scariest thing I think I've ever read. Millions could die from this.

[www.helium.com]

But I doubt this is true. What do you think?

Drew



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010-06-23 03:09 by drewmaster.

I don't know if I believe the methan gas article. All I know is we need brilliant minds on the ground down there, get the red tape out and find a way to stop the disaster. Then the rigs need a shut off valve of some sort so this does not happen again. I have no answers except get government agency red tape out and let people down there with any idea that they have and try it because whatever the officials have tried they have failed. Its time to stop politics and fix this mess. it is depressing

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drewmaster
Here is the scariest thing I think I've ever read. Millions could die from this.

[www.helium.com]

But I doubt this is true. What do you think?

Drew

@#$%&! Talk about silent but deadly . . .

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drewmaster
Here is the scariest thing I think I've ever read. Millions could die from this.

[www.helium.com]

But I doubt this is true. What do you think?

It's a gas, gas, gas!

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sweetcharmedlife

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Edith Grove
Obama's knee-jerk reaction to this disaster (banning new drilling) has just been overridden by a Federal judge in New Orleans.

I don't know what's knee jerk about not wanting another one of these disasters. How many rigs are in the gulf in deep water? Have they all been inspected to make sure they don't have the same problem?

It's a knee-jerk reaction because the Idiot In Chief put tens of thousands of people out of work as a result of his REACTION and then, to cover his skinny butt, deigned that BP was going to pay for their losses. Can we make it up as we go along? "Yes, we can!"

We still need the oil but now it's going to have to be delivered and transported on tankers and barges both of which have FAR MORE DISMAL SAFETY RECORDS than the drilling platforms.

Sure we can trust all the other oil companies. Because BP is the only one that was crooked and cheap and concerned with profits only. No other oil comapnies are like that at all of course. Just in case thier wasn't enough sarcasm in that statement. Let me make it clear.

Nice deflection. Perhaps you'd care to address what I actually wrote? If you can.

I'm not interested in his skinny butt. You must be a log cabin republican.

See! I knew you couldn't.

"Can we make it up as we go along? Yes, we can!"

Interesting web page , shows the extent that is more relatable to individual areas .

Click on the page and enter your city . It gives you a map that shows the area that would be covered if the Mississppi Delta Abomination Oil Spill happened in your region .

[www.ifitwasmyhome.com]

Oh there is methane out there - gazillions of tons of it. The Macondo well is leaking 40% oil, the rest is various gases. And at 100,000 barrels a day leaking, well, it has to go somewhere.

Well, the Obama administration is trying the moratorium thing again, but instead of simply challenging the judge's decision, they are issuing a different moratorium.

Hey! If Daddy says no, go ask Mommy, right?




Salazar seeks to reimpose drilling moratorium

Published: Wednesday, June 23, 2010, 9:18 AM Updated: Wednesday, June 23, 2010, 9:20 AM

The Associated Press

Interior Secretary Ken Salazar says he will issue a new order imposing a moratorium on deepwater drilling after a federal judge struck down the existing one.

Salazar said in a statement Tuesday evening that the new order will contain additional information making clear why the six-month drilling pause was necessary in the wake of the Gulf oil spill. The judge in New Orleans who struck down the moratorium earlier in the day complained there wasn't enough justification for it.

Salazar pointed to indications of inadequate safety precautions by industry on deepwater wells. He said he would issue a new order in the coming days showing that a moratorium is needed.

The White House also is appealing the judge's ruling.

[www.nola.com]

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Edith Grove
Well, the Obama administration is trying the moratorium thing again, but instead of simply challenging the judge's decision, they are issuing a different moratorium.

Hey! If Daddy says no, go ask Mommy, right?




Salazar seeks to reimpose drilling moratorium

Published: Wednesday, June 23, 2010, 9:18 AM Updated: Wednesday, June 23, 2010, 9:20 AM

The Associated Press

Interior Secretary Ken Salazar says he will issue a new order imposing a moratorium on deepwater drilling after a federal judge struck down the existing one.

Salazar said in a statement Tuesday evening that the new order will contain additional information making clear why the six-month drilling pause was necessary in the wake of the Gulf oil spill. The judge in New Orleans who struck down the moratorium earlier in the day complained there wasn't enough justification for it.

Salazar pointed to indications of inadequate safety precautions by industry on deepwater wells. He said he would issue a new order in the coming days showing that a moratorium is needed.

The White House also is appealing the judge's ruling.

[www.nola.com]

Aren't many of the gulf deep water wells registered to the Marshall Islands?
And don't they have extremely lax regulations? Yet the spills affect us.

Appeal's are a normal part of the process.

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fuman
Appeal's are a normal part of the process.

Of course they are, and the administration claims they are appealing the judge's ruling.

In the meantime however, they are issuing a re-worded moratorium, essentially creating a "de facto" moratorium for the simple sake of having their way, thus my Mommy/Daddy analogy.

This is a spineless way of getting around a judge's ruling.

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Edith Grove

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fuman
Appeal's are a normal part of the process.

Of course they are, and the administration claims they are appealing the judge's ruling.

In the meantime however, they are issuing a re-worded moratorium, essentially creating a "de facto" moratorium for the simple sake of having their way, thus my Mommy/Daddy analogy.

This is a spineless way of getting around a judge's ruling.

I don't understand why it's spineless.
Because they're appealing AND adding new language?

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fuman

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Edith Grove

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fuman
Appeal's are a normal part of the process.

Of course they are, and the administration claims they are appealing the judge's ruling.

In the meantime however, they are issuing a re-worded moratorium, essentially creating a "de facto" moratorium for the simple sake of having their way, thus my Mommy/Daddy analogy.

This is a spineless way of getting around a judge's ruling.

I don't understand why it's spineless.
Because they're appealing AND adding new language?

The administration needs to appeal their original moratorium and if they fail, then come up with something new, such as a compromise deal.

These jack-legs are perverting the system in order to create a de facto moratorium according to standards dictated by a few in Washington.

I don't know why anyone in Louisiana is listening to anyone in Washington anymore. It's pretty clear that the politicians in DC are beyond out of touch with reality.

Besides, since we don't get the oil royalties, why should we listen to what they say? We're scrude anyway. One rig blows up and the whole world has to stop? Typical DC reaction. "White powder in an envelope! Shut down all the airports!"

That shit only works in movies.

Meanwhile, the Macondo well spews. Which is interesting, the AP spells it Maconda sometimes. That would be like spelling the Rolling Stones the Rolling Stonei.

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Edith Grove

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fuman

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Edith Grove

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fuman
Appeal's are a normal part of the process.

Of course they are, and the administration claims they are appealing the judge's ruling.

In the meantime however, they are issuing a re-worded moratorium, essentially creating a "de facto" moratorium for the simple sake of having their way, thus my Mommy/Daddy analogy.

This is a spineless way of getting around a judge's ruling.

I don't understand why it's spineless.
Because they're appealing AND adding new language?

The administration needs to appeal their original moratorium and if they fail, then come up with something new, such as a compromise deal.

These jack-legs are perverting the system in order to create a de facto moratorium according to standards dictated by a few in Washington.

Well, I don't know if they need to stick to the original plan, or append in their appeal.

I do worry about the jobs aspect, but I have heard of a strategy for getting around the hunger issue, if the loss of a job creates hunger. It's pretty ingenious. I believe it's called dumpster diving, and the food is free.
It's been said that one can eat gourmet meals with this technique. Snark.

15 myths re the spill (per 'the daily green')...

[www.thedailygreen.com]

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Edith Grove

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fuman

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Edith Grove

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fuman
Appeal's are a normal part of the process.

Of course they are, and the administration claims they are appealing the judge's ruling.

In the meantime however, they are issuing a re-worded moratorium, essentially creating a "de facto" moratorium for the simple sake of having their way, thus my Mommy/Daddy analogy.

This is a spineless way of getting around a judge's ruling.

I don't understand why it's spineless.
Because they're appealing AND adding new language?

The administration needs to appeal their original moratorium and if they fail, then come up with something new, such as a compromise deal.

These jack-legs are perverting the system in order to create a de facto moratorium according to standards dictated by a few in Washington.

Well, I don't know if they need to stick to the original plan, or append in their appeal.

If this administration had any balls they would stick to their original plan.

Instead, we have a group of neophytes trying to achieve an end result by any means necessary.

I'd forgotten about this:

[tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com]

but remembered after a friend sent this to me today:

[www.newsobserver.com]

Did Mr Obama fire Mc Chrystal ? Like Mc Arthur vs Truman ?
What's the pun with Joe Biden /«Bite me" ?

Last week the local newspaper went to Fawley Refinery (UK) and were told that there is little chance of any spill happening here. Two days later 40 barrels of oil went in to the sea and they had to close a beach to clean it up.

Here's something almost anyone can do to support the gulf coast:

Abita Beer brews new beer to help save Louisiana's coast and to benefit those impacted by the oil spill.


Abita beer is launching a nationwide effort to raise money for our coast and those impacted by the oil spill.

Abita is brewing a new beer called S-O-S or "Save our Shores."

"It's unfiltered, a little cloudy, the mouth fill on it, the head , it will blow your socks off," said David Blossman, President of Abita beer.

For every bottle of S-O-S sold, Abita will donate $0.75 to the rescue and restoration of the environment, industry and individuals fighting to survive this disastrous oil spill. Abita did a similar fund raiser right after Katrina with "Restoration Pale Ale."

That effort according the brewery raised more than a half million dollars.

S-O-S will be sold in 41 states.

Click here to see a video about the beer: [www.neworleans.com]