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Re: Black and Blue - Not A Favorite
Posted by: Single Malt ()
Date: November 27, 2009 09:00

I've always loved B&B since I first heard it back in the early eighties. Almost all the songs are great. It's a different kind of album and perhaps that's why I like it. It has funky elements (Hot Stuff and Hey Negrita), reggae (Cherry Oh Baby), rock (Hand Of Fate and Crazy Mama), piano blues (Melody) and slow ballads (Memory Motel and Fool To Cry). Well, Fool To Cry has never been my favourite. There are much better songs that were left out. But all in all, very enjoyable record.

Re: Black and Blue - Not A Favorite
Date: November 27, 2009 09:01

A masterpiece!

The Stones best post Exile album.

Re: albums
Posted by: with sssoul ()
Date: November 27, 2009 09:20

>> It's a transitional album <<

nothing wrong with that. Let It Bleed is also a "transitional album", and it's also splendid.

has everybody here already read Ian McPherson's two-part essay about the Stones' musical evolution? [www.timeisonourside.com]
it includes some good insights that seem pertinent here

Re: Black and Blue - Not A Favorite
Posted by: 71Tele ()
Date: November 27, 2009 09:32

<< nothing wrong with that. Let It Bleed is also a "transitional album", and it's also splendid. >>

You're right. Nothing wrong with that on its own. But I stand by my other points. And I don't think the quality of songs is anywhere near LIB.

Re: Black and Blue - Not A Favorite
Posted by: studiorambo ()
Date: November 27, 2009 09:51

A great album to have in the box.

Re: Black and Blue - Not A Favorite
Posted by: keeffriffhard ()
Date: November 27, 2009 09:57

Black And Blue is one of the weakest albums of The Stones, but on the other hand what is the problem? It's like Ferrari cars, most of them are great and some of them are not as good....but it's still a Ferrari car...

Re: albums
Posted by: with sssoul ()
Date: November 27, 2009 10:01

>> But I stand by my other points. <<

smile: your other opinions, you mean - which you're welcome to of course if they're the best you can do
but there's a lot more joy in digging the album than in not-digging it :E

and really do check out that McPherson essay - it's good

Re: Black and Blue - Not A Favorite
Posted by: rootsman ()
Date: November 27, 2009 10:19

A major dissapointment at the time - I really missed Mick Taylor.
And I couldn´t believe that my favourite group could do such awful songs as Fool To Cry and Melody.
Sub-standard funk was not what I thought they should do either... The rest of the album wasn´t that bad.

These days I like it more!
Even Hot Stuff and Hey Negrita sounds good now.
The best tracks was/is Hand Of Fate, Memory Motel and Crazy Mama. And I always liked Cherry Oh Baby...

Re: Black and Blue - Not A Favorite
Date: November 27, 2009 10:26

Nah, it is a great album.
On it, they kind of assume and reckon the black influence in their music.
Funk, soul, Smokey Robinsonish ballad,rock (yes it is half black, children), reggae.
Even the cover has no camera angle nd light tricks, no make-up, or the photoshop of the era. Good human close-ups of the band.
The Rolling Stones were a real organic band and that´s one of the reasons we love them.
And the jazzy beauty of Melody, sadly never followed.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2009-11-27 10:29 by Gibson Fender-Nanker.

Re: Black and Blue - Not A Favorite
Posted by: ghostryder13 ()
Date: November 27, 2009 10:51

a much better album than dirty work, bridges to babylon, or a bigger bang

Re: Black and Blue - Not A Favorite
Posted by: whitem8 ()
Date: November 27, 2009 10:56

Fantastic album. Too short! But leaves you wanting more. Hot Stuff is a guitar ear orgy. Wonderful, bright and grinding funk. Hey Negrita is one of Ronnie's best riffs and is almost impossibly raunchy. It whips and slinks like a python of funk. Melody, the Stones fuse Jazz with R and B. Brilliant. But I think that is what tipped the balance for Keith and inspired him to push Billy out...especially how active Billy was on the subsequent tour...this turned Keith off. Hand of Fate and Crazy Mama are full tilt rock. Great stuff!
A great collection of eclectic grooves from Funk, to Jazz, R and B, soul, rock, and Reggae. On a single album. And I love the production, crisp, heavy bottom end, and great vocal mix.

Re: Black and Blue - Not A Favorite
Posted by: SwayStones ()
Date: November 27, 2009 11:18

Quote
Rockman
I'm playing it now.

Careful it might get ya and you'll end up groooovin' & movin' right on out inta da streets ...

lol .

71tele ,if you mind know what I think about B&B ,here it is :

[www.iorr.org]



I am a Frenchie ,as Mick affectionately called them in the Old Grey Whistle Test in 1977 .

Re: Black and Blue - Not A Favorite
Posted by: dead.flowers ()
Date: November 27, 2009 11:49

for me it is a favourite and will always be

won't forget when that disc came out (I was in the prime of my 18 yrs old then) and they started playing it in the pubs and clubs and I instantly went wow how cool and new and sexy and once again distinct from all the rest that was on

and not to forget the cover pic I love it

Re: Black and Blue - Not A Favorite
Posted by: Ket ()
Date: November 27, 2009 11:51

besides being too short and including cherry oh baby it is a brilliant album

Re: Black and Blue - Not A Favorite
Posted by: liddas ()
Date: November 27, 2009 15:07

A couple of weeks ago I had some friends for dinner who came with their children.

All together, 5 childs, age 6 months, 1, 2, 4 and 5 yearsold.

At the end of the dinner I played Black and Blue to a friend who wanted to know how the remasters sounded.

At the first notes of Hot Stuff one of the kids started to dance. I turend the volume up. By the end of HS they were ALL dancing (save the 6 months old who was only smiling). I went on skipping the slow traks and they loved it!

THE quintessential party album!

C

Re: Black and Blue - Not A Favorite
Posted by: Four Stone Walls ()
Date: November 27, 2009 16:01

Quote
dead.flowers
for me it is a favourite and will always be

won't forget when that disc came out (I was in the prime of my 18 yrs old then) and they started playing it in the pubs and clubs and I instantly went wow how cool and new and sexy and once again distinct from all the rest that was on

and not to forget the cover pic I love it

I echo your sentiments and am your age. Remenber it being played a lot in West End boutiques (with sound flowing onto the streets) at the time of their Earl#s Court gigs. (Don't think that had happenned with their previous albums). Stones were becoming 'acceptable'. Many other indicators towards tis too at the time.

but more 'important' - yes the outer sleeve was good - but the inner one was far better - can someone post that (is it in the CD version?)

them standing on a beach at dusk - in blackness and in blueness - with a rising(?) moon on the horizon

(this scene was also depicted on the vinyl record's label)

Re: Black and Blue - Not A Favorite
Posted by: NickB ()
Date: November 27, 2009 16:23

I'm kinda so-so on the album. Hand Of Fate is an absolute masterpiece both lyrically and musically especially that guitar solo.

NickB

You can't always get what you want.....

www.myspace.com/thesonkings

Re: Black and Blue - Not A Favorite
Posted by: atip ()
Date: November 27, 2009 17:13

Quote
Munichhilton
my opinion has a wide disparity from yours
Hand of Fate and Crazy Mama are worth the price alone...

Really fun 70's style Stones.

That's got my vote! Hand of Fate and Crazy Mama are worth the price of admission.

Re: Black and Blue - Not A Favorite
Posted by: SwayStones ()
Date: November 27, 2009 17:17

Quote
Four Stone Walls
.them standing on a beach at dusk - in blackness and in blueness - with a rising(?) moon on the horizon

(this scene was also depicted on the vinyl record's label)

Yes I like to see it when I open my vinyl cover.

I stil have the poster on a wall ,it looks like if Mick eyes follow me evry where I go on the room...



I am a Frenchie ,as Mick affectionately called them in the Old Grey Whistle Test in 1977 .

Re: Black and Blue - Not A Favorite
Posted by: skipstone ()
Date: November 27, 2009 18:31

So the Marcussen remaster sounds better than the Ludwig?

I like the album. It is too short. But that's part of the brilliance of it. By the time BAB came out, what difference does it make how long it is? Three albums before it was a double.

For whatever reason, they put just 8 on it. Obviously they recorded way more that they would use later. With the 'trying guitar players out' aside, I would like to know why they put only 8 songs on it. I know they didn't finish all of the 20 some songs they recorded for the album at that time. But they must have finished more than 8.

Re: Black and Blue - Not A Favorite
Posted by: ghostryder13 ()
Date: November 27, 2009 19:39

quite a few of the 8 songs are over the 5 min mark making the total playing over 40 minutes which is standard for lp's if i'm not mistaken

personally i think this album has aged well since it's release and is more popular among stones fans because of it's jam session feel



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2009-11-27 19:51 by ghostryder13.

Re: Black and Blue - Not A Favorite
Posted by: tomcat2006 ()
Date: November 27, 2009 19:43

Never liked it when I first got it.

Now I love it... Much more enjoyable than Some Girls (sorry!).

Re: Black and Blue - Not A Favorite
Date: November 27, 2009 19:50

<I would like to know why they put only 8 songs on it.>

I dunno, but there are many long tracks in there. Don´t remember how long the album is, but I doubt it´s any shorter than most of the other Stones-albums. Anyone?

Re: Black and Blue - Not A Favorite
Posted by: micwer ()
Date: November 27, 2009 19:56

It actually took me a while to appreciate BLACK & BLUE, but once I did, I was hooked. Memory Motel and Crazy Mama alone make it a masterpiece.

Re: Black and Blue - Not A Favorite
Posted by: 71Tele ()
Date: November 27, 2009 21:48

<< A major dissapointment at the time - I really missed Mick Taylor.
And I couldn´t believe that my favourite group could do such awful songs as Fool To Cry and Melody.
Sub-standard funk was not what I thought they should do either... The rest of the album wasn´t that bad. >>

This pretty much sums up my viewpoint. My initial post said it was "not a favorite" - not that I thought it was crap. I still think only seven new J/R songs (two of which were "inspired by" others - in other words co-written by them) showed a dearth of creative ideas. I do agree it's better than what came after Steel Wheels. I understand perfectly well that many of you enjoy it more than I do, which is great. The purpose of my post was to initiate discussion, which it certainly did.

We're also split on the cover art. I think it's dreadful. Looks like Keith is catching flies.

Re: Black and Blue - Not A Favorite
Posted by: Muddyw ()
Date: November 28, 2009 01:00

Anyone noticed Bridges To Babylon has the same sort of sound as Black And Blue? Both are very well mixed, both have powerfull sound, lots of bass and funk.
Gunface could have been a Black And Blue song in a way.

Re: Black and Blue - Not A Favorite
Posted by: shortfatfanny ()
Date: November 28, 2009 01:25

Hi 71Tele,
quoting your fist post...

Quote
71Tele
All in all, a weak effort from a tired-sounding band. "Some Girls" sounded amazingly fresh and vital in contrast two years later.

quoting your last post so far...
Quote
71Tele
My initial post said it was "not a favorite" - not that I thought it was crap.

Well,"a weak effort from a tired-sounding band " comes pretty close to my definition of being "crap".

Agree with you about Some Girls (another often enough controverse debated album here ),
and for sure you started a debate...not that a mind.

I think,that´s what I tried to point out in my first post,Black and Blue might be hard to get...but if it´s done,it´s a constant and reliable joy listening to it...


Re: Black and Blue - Not A Favorite
Posted by: dead.flowers ()
Date: November 28, 2009 15:37

Quote
SwayStones
Quote
Four Stone Walls
.them standing on a beach at dusk - in blackness and in blueness - with a rising(?) moon on the horizon

(this scene was also depicted on the vinyl record's label)

Yes I like to see it when I open my vinyl cover.

I stil have the poster on a wall ,it looks like if Mick eyes follow me evry where I go on the room...

Hi Sway, I'd really to see that pic, couldn't you kinda mail a scan? Cheers - dead.flowers

Re: Black and Blue - Not A Favorite
Posted by: Edward Twining ()
Date: November 28, 2009 16:13

Black And Blue stylistically fits into the Taylor era much more than the Wood era, because there's still a fluid guitar virtuoso feel to a number of the tracks which was forever lost thereafter. That's why although technically the songs aren't as consistently strong as those on Some Girls, in terms of feel, i much prefer it. I suppose in many ways it marks the end of the Stones indulgences, or aimlessness, which could pretty much be directed to the Stones post Exile output. In truth though i think i prefer the Stones sounding a little more disorientated. By Some Girls clarity seems the order of the day, but i find Some Girls thinner, more instant sound really shallow and boring - it's a little too obvious for its own good. I think ultimately Black And Blue is a stronger effort than It's Only Rock 'N' Roll because it doesn't repesent merely recycling riffs, but it's not as strong as Goats Head Soup which i believe represents the Stones near their peak.

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