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WMiller
I don't think CindyC or Voodoo ever said these things. More care should be taken when quoting posts.

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Duane in Houston

I never believed Michael guilty in the first accusation. I always felt that was a case of someone wanting to get rich. He was very close with that boy and family for a long time and if I recall, it's when he tried to stop giving them help that they turned to accuse him.

Thank you WMiller for looking out for me as always.

I'm sure Duane didn't do it on purpose though, there are a lot of quote marks and he was probably trying to be considerate by only posting the pertinent part of the quote.

Wasn't looking too good, but I was feeling real well.

I am not sure why people are posting their pointless opinions here when an important person of our generation, our timeline, has passed on (does that mean anything to you?). Whether you like(d) MJ or not, Michael Jackson was relevant to our (this) generation.

He counts for something - do you?

We're all going to die one day, but our deaths will not be noted, condemned or berated.

So why in death should he be judged for his life?

Let he without sin cast the first Stone ......and let the first Jackson brother rest in peace.

Well said turd

........amen

Like it or not, not everyone will see Michael the same way you, and indeed many others, do. Honor him in your way and leave others to do so, or not, in theirs...

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VoodooLounge13

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django
RIP Jacko. A true legend of pop music!


By the way: Amazon.uk Top 10 bestsellers today at 16:45h. And the tragedy is that most likely (some) record co. managers will open some bottles today.

1. Off the Wall: Special Edition - Michael Jackson
2. Bad - Michael Jackson
3. Thriller ~ Michael Jackson
4. Thriller [25th Anniversary Edition CD + DVD] ~ Michael Jackson
5. Dangerous ~ Michael Jackson
6. The Essential ~ Michael Jackson
7. King Of Pop ~ Michael Jackson
8. HIStory ~ Michael Jackson
9. Invincible ~ Michael Jackson
10. The Best Of Michael Jackson, The Jackson 5ive ~ Michael Jackson

At Amazon.com, it's the top 15 Spots he's occupying....

1. Michael Jackson 25th Anniversary of Thriller
2. Off The Wall
3. Bad
4. Michael Jackson: The Ultimate Collection
5. Number Ones
6. Dangerous
7. Jackson 5 - The Ultimate Collection
8. Michael Jackson - Vol. 1 Greatest Hits History
9. The Essential Michael Jackson
10. Invincible
11. HIStory: Past, Present and Future, Book I
12. Michael Jackson 25th Anniversary of Thriller(Deluxe Casebook Edition)
13. Thriller - Special Edition
14. Michael Jackson 25th Anniversary of Thriller
15. Blood on the Dance Floor: History in the Mix

who are buying these?....one would think that his true fans already had most of them....why wouldn't they buy them when he was still alive?......somebody please explain

Front page of the Boston Herald read: Fade to Blacko. Their headline writers are usually much better than that. That's not even clever, is it?

[www.bostonherald.com]

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turd


So why in death should he be judged for his life?

Let he without sin cast the first Stone ......and let the first Jackson brother rest in peace.

ha! hilarious. you are saying a person should not be judged by their life? then by what? their death?
child molestation is not shoplifting. re: sin..........there is a hierarchy for sins and child molestation is near the top.


IORR............but I like it!

When John Kennedy Jr died one headline read 'John John - Gone Gone.' Good taste and decorum were never prerequisites for selling newspapers.

please learn how to use the quotes......i never typed the bottom section. i assume that's your statement.
if it is a problem with the new IORR board..i apologize.

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toomuchforme

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sweet neo con
Did anything ever happen to Elvis' "Dr. Nick"??

Hey TOOMUCHFORME.....please don't minimize child molestation as a "mistake". It's a long way
from what Billy & Pete did (i don't know what Waddy did).

To realize how evil child molestation is....you need to think of it in graphic detail.....and
imagine this man-child peter pan freak touching your little boy after giving him "jesus juice".

please....pull your head out of the sand. yes..his music was great but so what!?!?

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sweet neo con


the guy was not convicted... can you read ? maybe you have doubts but I would not put you in jail just on doubts...
and we are not talking about young kids without consciousness but a boy (If I remember) aged of 12 (?)... almost the Mandy Smith age.
ANd you pefectly knows how people tried to steal his money .....

IORR............but I like it!



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2009-06-27 00:26 by sweet neo con.

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ChrisM
When John Kennedy Jr died one headline read 'John John - Gone Gone.' Good taste and decorum were never prerequisites for selling newspapers.

That's awesome! Distasteful? Check. Catchy? Check. Clever? Check.

The perfect headline!

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sweet neo con
ha! hilarious. you are saying a person should not be judged by their life? then by what? their death?

I have to agree with this statement, and I always use @#$%& as an example. Yes, he's dead, so does that mean we can't speak ill of him?

Now in the case of Michael - there is a chance however slight that he actually did not do the things he's accused of. Perhaps he just does not have the same sort of libido that most people have. Michael was not a "regular" person in so many ways - talent included.

Wasn't looking too good, but I was feeling real well.

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WMiller

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ChrisM
When John Kennedy Jr died one headline read 'John John - Gone Gone.' Good taste and decorum were never prerequisites for selling newspapers.

That's awesome! Distasteful? Check. Catchy? Check. Clever? Check.

The perfect headline!

Well, yes. It was. I had to laugh at the black humour of it, even though I respected the man. Which it brings up a point I'd like to make. Just because I and others have added levity to an otherwise somber occasion, it doesn't mean that I don't take seriously how others feel about MJ or others, celebrities or not, who have joined the choir invisible. Humour is how I happen to deal with things like this. At my funeral, I'd like people to laugh and have a good time rather than come over all weepy, but that's me...

JR



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2009-07-07 01:16 by stone-relics.

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CindyC

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NICOS
"where there's smoke there's fire"

Hi NICOS.

It basically means that when people start talking about something (usually something gossipy), there's often a reason behind it.

For instance, someone may say "i think X is having an affair with Y". Usually it's because people have caught X & Y behaving in a way that would suggest that.

If they weren't acting that way, people wouldn't be talking about them.

I don't know if I explained that well, but hopefully it will give you an idea of how it's used.

Cindy sorry, I know what this Quote means, we have the same one here "waar rook is, is vuur".
But I ones was accused with this quote and I didn't know anything about what was going on

__________________________




Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2009-06-27 00:52 by NICOS.

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VoodooLounge13
I never believed Michael guilty in the first accusation. I always felt that was a case of someone wanting to get rich. He was very close with that boy and family for a long time and if I recall, it's when he tried to stop giving them help that they turned to accuse him.

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Duane in Houston
Yeah. I used to think, like everybody else, that "where there's smoke there's fire" but if you step back a bit you have to consider that there is really not one scintilla of proof that MJ ever fondled or molested ANY of those kids. I think he "settled" the first case to make it just go away and in the one case where he was brought to trial he was acquitted. I would also think that if he really was "like that" there would certainly be more kids who would have come forward by now, especially the famous ones like Macauly Caulkin and Cory Feldman who both strongly deny that MJ ever molested them. Sure, he was one messed up dude and sure, a grown-up shouldn't be climbing into bed with kids that aren't his but maybe, just maybe, he simply loved children in an innocent way. Who knows. We'll just have to wait and see what comes out in the next few years.

I agree with Duane. It's interesting that the famous kids he maintained friendships with for many years are so adamant that there was never anything untoward going on. Is it a coincidence that kids like Macauly Culkin and Corey Feldman (who have money themselves) never accused him.
If you haven't had such luck in your acting career then you can also try to make a tidy sum by suing Jackson for molestation - most likely it was actually the parents that came up with this idea.

Jackson opted for the settlement in the early 90s (probably because he wanted to focus on his musical career rather than fight court battles that go on for years - which is understandable). The downside of not making a matter of principle out of this became clear years later. The pay-off made the parents of the second boy think they could get the same quick reward for (false) accusations. (Except in their case it didn't work out).

When you have fame on the scale that Jackson had (has) it's like living in a glass house. People can throw something at you and cause considerable damage without much effort. It's an unequal fight because they don't have to worry a lot about their name/reputation which means your punches won't hurt them. When the dust settles they go back to living their lives in relative anonymity, while the name of the person in the public eye is forever tainted. (Even when the outcome is an acquittal, the public tends to think: where there's smoke, there's fire).



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2009-06-27 01:11 by Lightnin'.

In case anyone is interested, if not, sorry this is going to be a long post, someone just sent me this blog from Lisa Marie's myspace page.

Friday, June 26, 2009

He Knew.

Years ago Michael and I were having a deep conversation about life in general.

I can't recall the exact subject matter but he may have been questioning me about the circumstances of my Fathers Death.

At some point he paused, he stared at me very intensely and he stated with an almost calm certainty, "I am afraid that I am going to end up like him, the way he did."

I promptly tried to deter him from the idea, at which point he just shrugged his shoulders and nodded almost matter of fact as if to let me know, he knew what he knew and that was kind of that.

14 years later I am sitting here watching on the news an ambulance leaves the driveway of his home, the big gates, the crowds outside the gates, the coverage, the crowds outside the hospital, the Cause of death and what may have led up to it and the memory of this conversation hit me, as did the unstoppable tears.

A predicted ending by him, by loved ones and by me, but what I didn't predict was how much it was going to hurt when it finally happened.

The person I failed to help is being transferred right now to the LA County Coroners office for his Autopsy.

All of my indifference and detachment that I worked so hard to achieve over the years has just gone into the bowels of hell and right now I am gutted.

I am going to say now what I have never said before because I want the truth out there for once.

Our relationship was not "a sham" as is being reported in the press. It was an unusual relationship yes, where two unusual people who did not live or know a "Normal life" found a connection, perhaps with some suspect timing on his part. Nonetheless, I do believe he loved me as much as he could love anyone and I loved him very much.

I wanted to "save him" I wanted to save him from the inevitable which is what has just happened.

His family and his loved ones also wanted to save him from this as well but didn't know how and this was 14 years ago. We all worried that this would be the outcome then.

At that time, In trying to save him, I almost lost myself.

He was an incredibly dynamic force and power that was not to be underestimated.

When he used it for something good, It was the best and when he used it for something bad, It was really, REALLY bad.

Mediocrity was not a concept that would even for a second enter Michael Jackson's being or actions.

I became very ill and emotionally/ spiritually exhausted in my quest to save him from certain self-destructive behavior and from the awful vampires and leeches he would always manage to magnetize around him.

I was in over my head while trying.

I had my children to care for, I had to make a decision.

The hardest decision I have ever had to make, which was to walk away and let his fate have him, even though I desperately loved him and tried to stop or reverse it somehow.

After the Divorce, I spent a few years obsessing about him and what I could have done different, in regret.

Then I spent some angry years at the whole situation.

At some point, I truly became Indifferent, until now.

As I sit here overwhelmed with sadness, reflection and confusion at what was my biggest failure to date, watching on the news almost play by play The exact Scenario I saw happen on August 16th, 1977 happening again right now with Michael (A sight I never wanted to see again) just as he predicted, I am truly, truly gutted.

Any ill experience or words I have felt towards him in the past has just died inside of me along with him.

He was an amazing person and I am lucky to have gotten as close to him as I did and to have had the many experiences and years that we had together.

I desperately hope that he can be relieved from his pain, pressure and turmoil now.

He deserves to be free from all of that and I hope he is in a better place or will be.

I also hope that anyone else who feels they have failed to help him can be set free because he hopefully finally is.

The World is in shock but somehow he knew exactly how his fate would be played out some day more than anyone else knew, and he was right.


I really needed to say this right now, thanks for listening.


~LMP

Any news about the funeral arrangements? I wonder if he ever made his wishes known with regard to this matter. I wonder if his family will honor his wishes. Probably not, since most likely he wished for something really weird, like being put in a rocket and sent to the rings of Saturn.

I had not read the posts from Nicos and CindyC before making a comment - dealing with the same expression "where there's smoke, there's fire".

For clarity: I do not subscribe to this saying. It seems to be the way of reasoning that is followed many times by people that have only superficial knowledge of the specific circumstances.
This applies both to situations that might occur in the life of a friend/acquaintance (an ordinary citizen) and the way someone interprets the media coverage of an event that is of public interest because a celebrity is at the center of it.

Good post cindy

__________________________

Although she is genuinely upset, LMP is a dollar short and a day late. I despise when people only show up for the funeral.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2009-06-27 01:03 by Chris Fountain.

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Lightnin'
It's interesting that the famous kids he maintained friendships with for many years are so adament that there was never anything untoward going on. Is it a coincidence that kids like Macauly Culkin and Corey Feldman (who have money themselves) never accused him.
****
When you have fame on the scale that Jackson had (has) it's like living in a glass house. People can throw something at you and cause considerable damage without much effort.

I'd say Michael was probably smart enough not to mess with celebrity kids that have some smarts and
a bit more credibility than an anonymous kid that is smitten with Neverland.

As for your second statement..i agree...except for the effort part. To follow thru (all the way to court)
on such serious accusations with lawyer after lawyer picking at your story takes a lot of effort
and a lot of consistency. Had there been nothing there....it wouldn't have gone to trial.

CindyC said this earlier: "Now in the case of Michael - there is a chance however slight that he actually did not do the things he's accused of. Perhaps he just does not have the same sort of libido that most people have. Michael was not a "regular" person in so many ways - talent included."

She might be right. this is interesting... [www.statementanalysis.com]


IORR............but I like it!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2009-06-27 01:03 by sweet neo con.

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Chris Fountain
Although she is genuinely upset. LMP is a dollar short and a day late. I despise when people only show up for the funeral.

I agree, but in this case you might be judging her too harshly. You can't help someone who does not want to be helped. Often times they drag you down with them. Give her some credit that she was able to do what was right and focus on her children instead. I give her a lot of credit for just the fact that she didn't traipse her children through the spotlight the wayshe grew up. I only saw her daughter when she started modeling and she was mid-way if not out of her teens.

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CindyC

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Chris Fountain
Although she is genuinely upset. LMP is a dollar short and a day late. I despise when people only show up for the funeral.

I agree, but in this case you might be judging her too harshly. You can't help someone who does not want to be helped. Often times they drag you down with them. Give her some credit that she was able to do what was right and focus on her children instead. I give her a lot of credit for just the fact that she didn't traipse her children through the spotlight the wayshe grew up. I only saw her daughter when she started modeling and she was mid-way if not out of her teens.

Fair enough.

LIsa Marie: "I am going to say now what I have never said before because I want the truth out there for once.

Our relationship was not "a sham" as is being reported in the press. It was an unusual relationship yes, where two unusual people who did not live or know a "Normal life" found a connection, perhaps with some suspect timing on his part. Nonetheless, I do believe he loved me as much as he could love anyone and I loved him very much.
"

Actually I saw her say this several years ago in a tv interview. i truly was convinced that it was not a sham.
as she admits..it was "unusual"..but not a sham. she was naive & in awe.


IORR............but I like it!

I am shocked and sadden at the loss of the profoundly talented Michael Jackson.

He was an immense talent and an absolute titan of the music industry.

RIP to an incredibly human being.

Alex

Very interesting show aired again tonight on french tv with his manager, his lawyer Mesereau, the journalists who attended the 4 months and a half trial (before the trial they ceased the computers, clothes, brought the scientific police, 70 police cars ! at Neverland during 8 am to 11 pm...)
Gavin family was involved in previous false sexual accusations and especially his mother.
And Gavin told the truth at last : "L’adolescent, âgé de 15 ans, a créé la surprise devant le tribunal de Santa Maria. Il a admis avoir eu, courant 2003, un entretien avec Jeffrey Alpert, le doyen du collège Burroughs de Los Angeles après son retour du ranch de Michael Jackson et reconnu lui avoir dit qu’il ne s’était rien passé entre le chanteur et lui."

Basically he has admitted nothing happened.

Disgusting. Someone should sue those parents.

Everyone else in the world thinks it weird for a grown man to have sleepovers with children, yet they let their child. Perhaps something happened, perhaps it didn't. Why would you put your child in that position????

Press conference taking place now... more updates to follow on cause of death.

As you know, the parents of those kids involved in the molestation charges seemed keen to settle for cash and NO CONVICTION for Jackson... And one had a record of (welfare) fraud or some such thing. I think Michael was a little naive and associated with folks he shouldn't have. All previous partners - from his first romance w/ Tatum O'Neil (there's the Farrah connection) to Lisa Marie, the ex-nurse wife, Liz Taylor and on and on have never alluded to THIS type of peculiarity vis-a-vis Jackson!

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CindyC

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Chris Fountain
Although she is genuinely upset. LMP is a dollar short and a day late. I despise when people only show up for the funeral.

I agree, but in this case you might be judging her too harshly. You can't help someone who does not want to be helped. Often times they drag you down with them. Give her some credit that she was able to do what was right and focus on her children instead. I give her a lot of credit for just the fact that she didn't traipse her children through the spotlight the wayshe grew up. I only saw her daughter when she started modeling and she was mid-way if not out of her teens.

Good points and well said. I always liked Michael Jackson and was appalled when the molestation accusations came out. We do know what the verdict was and whether a person believes he was guilty, the jury found otherwise. I have always felt Michael Jackson missed out on a great deal of his own childhood and therefore in some way tried to rekindle that in his own personal way. He truly loved children, and perhaps on occasions that concept of missing out on his own years of growing up conflicted with his judgement as an adult when it came to children. His talent however is undeniable and that is what many people will reminder.

Mike