Does anyone know when Charlie started using those horrible dull crash cymbals that he now uses on every single track?

it's been at least since Steel Wheels.

What type of cymbal is it?

does anyone actually like it?

Please, if there's going to be any more recording, somebody switch Charlie's cymbals

Charlie doesn't make horrible sounds

I think you mean the China Type cymbals. It's more of an effect cymbal other drummers use for accents. Charlie use it as a crash cymbal and I agree - it often sounds like shit.





Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2009-05-26 23:09 by Bimmelzerbott.

He uses the same drumming since Some Girls LP, are you coming from Mars ?

the modern stones have the worst drum sound in the business, which is a shame.

Charlie Watts certainly does not sound horrible!

Let the man explain............







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Charlie Watts is God.

this sound is fantastic....

Charlie Is My Darling.

You mean like "Like a rollig stone"? The single? But to my ears that´s pretty good. It gives Keith and Ron space/energy to give the song.......WINGS!....

It is amazing how..rigid, and stiff his body gets nowadays when he plays. Charlie really IS the personification of the Stones' sound: it does not make any sense. Contradictions. How does so much swing come out of that very lovable, upright little old man? I also hate Chinese Crash. But not so much how Charlie uses it: he mainly has it as a splash. He hits that cymbal very often. But Charlie does not really see the cymbal the way Metal drummers e.g do. That it only exists as the final bang after a big tom tom roller fill. Charlie accents in between his riffs all the time.
And they always talk about Bonzo's foot. Charlie has a hell of a kick.
What is the deal btw with Charlie's nose when he plays? It drives me crazy. It's like half his nose disappears when he plays.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2009-05-27 00:21 by Palace Revolution 2000.

Fingers - thanks for that terrific video. Never seen Charlie so talkative. That's how you get a shy one to speak up though, ask them about something they're passionate about

I love how Charlie makes the most out of such an economic set-up. And myself, I love the cymbal sound. One of my favorite CW moments is the intro to "Love Is Strong", gun-blast drumroll followed by that jazz-sounding cymbal crash.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2009-05-27 00:17 by theimposter.

the only horrible sounds charlie watts could make would be if he had indigestion.

Yes indeed, that's a "China splash" cymbal that Charlie uses as his main crash, which is kind of unusual. He even mentions this in that video (GREAT video -- thanx for posting!). Like Haristone says, Charlie's current drum sound kind of started around Some Girls. On the Gorgeous Girls boot from the '78 tour, you can hear the China cymbal quite a lot (probably on Some Girls as well, I don't remember).

I sort of like that China sound -- it's a bit of a Charlie trademark -- but I do think he overuses it a bit. If anything, I'm kinda tired of his relentless snare rolls (which are also an important part of his style, but overused nevertheless). I still think he was at the top of his game around '72. :-P

The guy isn't saying Charlie's drumming sucks, he's saying, to him, his cymbal sound sucks, which is the result of the type of cymbal used, and he's curious if he's the only one who thinks so. I personally don't know what he's talking about because I'm not very interested in the Stones after Tattoo You, and haven't heard enough of the era he's speaking of, but regardless, if he doesn't like the cymbal sound, it's nothing against Charlie's playing. It is possible for a great player to use equipment that produces a sound some people don't like. Get off the guy's back.

Ha ha! Thanks boogie69.

Yeah, i think Charlie's a great drummer - such swing for a white guy, one of the best ever. Seems like a nice guy too - thanks for posting that fascinating video Fingers.

I'm just saying i much prefer his bright crashes from (most of) the 70s. Listen to the way he builds on the toms in toward the end of Tumbling Dice ('you gotta roll me...') then crashes in with the beat - the cymbal souding like he's openend a big can of sunshine for us!

I believe, after doing some research within an earlier thread a little while back about the recording of Some Girls, that Charlie got the China half way through the SG sessions and it only appears on, if I recall correctly, 3 songs on the album. It's on all of ER (I think, not 100%) and only, what, 3 on TY? From there on it's on every song, every album (probably).

Sounds great I think. No other band or drummer uses it to the effect that Charlie does. He's the only one. All the rest? They sound like all the rest. Charlie is different.

And he's not even arrogant about it.

dude thats charlies trademark, how dare you say horrible

Charlie does no wrong.

"Listen to the way he builds on the toms in toward the end of Tumbling Dice"
Could it be Jimmy Miller? ><
People's right : on SW there are some pretty nasty cymbals sounds...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2009-05-27 12:00 by dcba.

The problem live is that his cymbals produces hardly no sound at all. It´s a combination of the size of the cymbals - more suitable for jazz - and his peculiar technique when hitting them. It´s especially obvious whenever he ends a song with a big crash, and all you hear is the bass drum.

Quote
Svartmer
The problem live is that his cymbals produces hardly no sound at all. It´s a combination of the size of the cymbals - more suitable for jazz - and his peculiar technique when hitting them. It´s especially obvious whenever he ends a song with a big crash, and all you hear is the bass drum.

It does not have to do with the size of the cymbals nor with his technique but with the PA system. It just is very difficult to properly amplify cymbals in big stadiums.

Concerning his technique, Charlie is always refered to as a "jazz drummer", and while that might be true in a studio, live on stage he really is a hard-hitter. Ever since '75 especially his snare drum technique is focussed on bashing out rimshots. He really is a loud drummer.

Mathijs

Quote
peoplewitheyes
Does anyone know when Charlie started using those horrible dull crash cymbals that he now uses on every single track?

it's been at least since Steel Wheels.

What type of cymbal is it?

does anyone actually like it?

Please, if there's going to be any more recording, somebody switch Charlie's cymbals

First of all, well... Now, to answer your question, it is a 18" UFIP China Crash, the best being from the Master Series. Think of that beautiful sound as steam being let off by a locomotive. Then, you start to get it.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2009-05-27 17:35 by Carnaby.

oh i see, it´s essential to imitate the sound of a locomotive to be a drummer.
and what some consider swing has also gotten a little too loose if you ask me.

Focused on bashing out rim-shots?!

I hardly see him do a real rimshot.

and btw. to me he was at his best in 69!
Over the last 20 years im quite bored with his drumming.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2009-05-27 19:44 by CousinC.

Quote
CousinC

Over the last 20 years im quite bored with his drumming.

+1

I think the problem is, speaking as a drummer, many people still think chinas sound "strange." Things change, Charlie is a jazz drummer, if anything jazz drummers are even more enthusiastic about seeking out new sounds than traditional rock drummers. If you're sooooo bored with Charlie's drumming, call up the stones and see if they'll hire you. Or post up a recording of yourself playing something more "exciting" on a Stones song than he has in the last 20 years, I'm waiting.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2009-05-27 20:30 by Anthony.

in this modern world where drums are almost everything, the stones have a very weak link compared to the competition. and his sound is bad as well. this is also a reason why they don´t sell good anymore. it´s not all mick´s fault all the time.
at least i don´t feel charlie gives his everything anymore.
and what do you mean "new sound". i learned from this thread he uses this crash since the 70´s. so that must mean he has been very inventive since then, right.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2009-05-27 21:26 by stoneswashed77.

It's not charlies horrible cymbal sound but the way his kit is miked up, the ears and FX of the engineer who is mixing the sound. His cymbals sound fine to Me. Its his snare sound in shine a light that sounds awful.

NickB

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