Tell Me :
Talk
It is pathetic and stupid. Its jealousy, not only of the fame and the trappings that go with it. Also jealousy of the fact that, you know what? Throw out flashy solos and all the other trappings. Charlie could wipe the @#$%& floor with 95% of all drummers today. But, I guess since his playing has evolved, that means hes no longer the "great" who played from 66-72. Oh no! Hes using a cymbal I don't like! Hes Irrelevant because I, as a singular human being, hate the sound of it.
Lets use the "China" equation on other situations, shall we?
1.Zappa went from writing classical music by hand to using a computer?!?! That means its terrible? Give me a @#$%& break.
2.Whoa! Pete Townshend is PLAYING A DIFFERENT BRAND OF GUITAR THAN HE USED TO?!?! Hes irrelevant too!
By the way, I'm still waiting for some drummers to post examples of themselves playing more interesting parts to a song from 1981-2005? Put up or shut up.
I say all of this...as a drummer who owns three Chinas, yeah thats right. Got a problem?
[/quote]
over the years he lost his drive and became a lame and tired "locomotive".
When his feel is all he ever got, what´s left then. he is nowhere near better than 95% of the drummers out there.
[/quote]
Well, that's only your opinion. I, for example, find Watts' drumming way more inspiring now than what it was during the so called "golden age".
C
over the years he lost his drive and became a lame and tired "locomotive".
When his feel is all he ever got, what´s left then. he is nowhere near better than 95% of the drummers out there....."
Who are you to criticise then?
I suppose you judge a drummer's talent by how many rolls around the drums per minute he can do.
Charlies style is about playing sympatheticaly to the songs - not being a flash git.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2009-05-29 15:16 by turd.
Mick can do that and, in fact, he has. And still does so from time to time. Mick's played Stones songs with fabulous musicians, real pros, and as good as they are, they aren't the Stones. They're just fine musicians playing Stones music perfectly well but lacking that certain something that has made the Stones what they are.
Btw, I have always liked the way Charlie uses that China splash.
We heard Waddy, Bernard and some other "pros" play Jumping Jack Flash a couple of days ago. Was it better than the Stones? No, they sounded like a typical rock/hard rock band: boring, loud, predictable and lacked groove (like AC/DC).
Talk about your favorite band.
For information about how to use this forum please check out forum help and policies.
Re: charlie's horrible cymbal sound
Posted by:
Anthony
()
Date: May 29, 2009 11:35
Quote
BärsQuote
CousinC
As you should know, many/most musicians see the Stones and particularly Keith and Charlie more as a joke.
And how pathetic is that?
There are hundreds of thousends of ordinary musicians doing exactly the same as every other musician. Nobody knows them and nobody cares about their music, and they will operate on a striclty local level until they retire. And these people make fun of Keith and Charlie, two of the most important musicians the last 50 yeras. Ridiculous.
It is pathetic and stupid. Its jealousy, not only of the fame and the trappings that go with it. Also jealousy of the fact that, you know what? Throw out flashy solos and all the other trappings. Charlie could wipe the @#$%& floor with 95% of all drummers today. But, I guess since his playing has evolved, that means hes no longer the "great" who played from 66-72. Oh no! Hes using a cymbal I don't like! Hes Irrelevant because I, as a singular human being, hate the sound of it.
Lets use the "China" equation on other situations, shall we?
1.Zappa went from writing classical music by hand to using a computer?!?! That means its terrible? Give me a @#$%& break.
2.Whoa! Pete Townshend is PLAYING A DIFFERENT BRAND OF GUITAR THAN HE USED TO?!?! Hes irrelevant too!
By the way, I'm still waiting for some drummers to post examples of themselves playing more interesting parts to a song from 1981-2005? Put up or shut up.
I say all of this...as a drummer who owns three Chinas, yeah thats right. Got a problem?
Re: charlie's horrible cymbal sound
Posted by:
Come On
()
Date: May 29, 2009 11:35
Yep, important musicians in a even more important band. Mick Jagger is one of the most important rock-singers in this world, but Keith and Charlie is important musicians as band-members in Stones and they couldn't be replaced.
And now I have to listen to Charlies horrible cymbal sound...
2 1 2 0
And now I have to listen to Charlies horrible cymbal sound...
2 1 2 0
Re: charlie's horrible cymbal sound
Posted by:
Anthony
()
Date: May 29, 2009 11:40
Quote
CousinCQuote
winjoe
(And reg. those Rim-shots I still have my doubts. I know his style looks that way. But to me a rimshot has more to do with playing accents. And listening to Charlie I mostly hear him beat the skin - with a little extra "rebound".
But I'll really look at those videos!LOL.)
A rimshot is when the head and the rim are struck in tandem. To you, it may have more to do with playing accents, but you're wrong.
And last I checked (set across the hall), rebound is not audible. But seriously, if you're gonna talk trash on a drummer, get your terminology right. Especially since you have appointed yourself king of "Stones Rhythmic Prowess."
Re: charlie's horrible cymbal sound
Posted by:
His Majesty
()
Date: May 29, 2009 13:09
Jeez, some angry peeps in here. Take it easy! 
Not liking the sound of the china cymbal ain't no crime. Not liking the sound of that cymbal doesn't equal I think Charlie is crap!
It means, I don't like the cymbal, but Charlie is Charlie and he still has his own unique thing going on. Whether he's better than anyone else is a stupid argument, Charlie sounds like Charlie, but he can't play like so and so, vice versa, etc etc, blah blah blah.
I don't really like the sound of the guitars post 1969 either, that don't stop me from appreciating the music from 1970 - 2007. Not that I listen to stuff from that wide period of time much. >
<
Not liking the sound of the china cymbal ain't no crime. Not liking the sound of that cymbal doesn't equal I think Charlie is crap!
It means, I don't like the cymbal, but Charlie is Charlie and he still has his own unique thing going on. Whether he's better than anyone else is a stupid argument, Charlie sounds like Charlie, but he can't play like so and so, vice versa, etc etc, blah blah blah.
I don't really like the sound of the guitars post 1969 either, that don't stop me from appreciating the music from 1970 - 2007. Not that I listen to stuff from that wide period of time much. >
<Re: charlie's horrible cymbal sound
Posted by:
carlostones10
()
Date: May 29, 2009 13:12
hahaha. Charlie IS FANTASTIC. WE LOVE YOU CHARLIE!
Re: charlie's horrible cymbal sound
Posted by:
stoneswashed77
()
Date: May 29, 2009 14:34
[/quote]
By the way, I'm still waiting for some drummers to post examples of themselves playing more interesting parts to a song from 1981-2005? Put up or shut up.
[/quote]
that´s so low brow brother. this is like saying to an art critic you can´t say anything about picasso as long as you are not able to paint better than picasso.
very stupid!
there are so many great drummers out there, even today, even in popular music.
you as a drummer should know that. not every drummer who is better than charlie is boring.
over the years he lost his drive and became a lame and tired "locomotive".
When his feel is all he ever got, what´s left then. he is nowhere near better than 95% of the drummers out there.
if mick could he would leave the drummer and the guitarists behind and make his own thing for sure.
if at all maybe you should post some of your drumming, but i suppose as narrow minded as you are you might be playing very boring yourself.
By the way, I'm still waiting for some drummers to post examples of themselves playing more interesting parts to a song from 1981-2005? Put up or shut up.
[/quote]
that´s so low brow brother. this is like saying to an art critic you can´t say anything about picasso as long as you are not able to paint better than picasso.
very stupid!
there are so many great drummers out there, even today, even in popular music.
you as a drummer should know that. not every drummer who is better than charlie is boring.
over the years he lost his drive and became a lame and tired "locomotive".
When his feel is all he ever got, what´s left then. he is nowhere near better than 95% of the drummers out there.
if mick could he would leave the drummer and the guitarists behind and make his own thing for sure.
if at all maybe you should post some of your drumming, but i suppose as narrow minded as you are you might be playing very boring yourself.
Re: charlie's horrible cymbal sound
Posted by:
liddas
()
Date: May 29, 2009 14:43
By the way, I'm still waiting for some drummers to post examples of themselves playing more interesting parts to a song from 1981-2005? Put up or shut up.Quote
stoneswashed77
[/quote]
over the years he lost his drive and became a lame and tired "locomotive".
When his feel is all he ever got, what´s left then. he is nowhere near better than 95% of the drummers out there.
[/quote]
Well, that's only your opinion. I, for example, find Watts' drumming way more inspiring now than what it was during the so called "golden age".
C
Re: charlie's horrible cymbal sound
Posted by:
turd
()
Date: May 29, 2009 14:54
".........Quote
stoneswashed77
over the years he lost his drive and became a lame and tired "locomotive".
When his feel is all he ever got, what´s left then. he is nowhere near better than 95% of the drummers out there....."
Who are you to criticise then?
I suppose you judge a drummer's talent by how many rolls around the drums per minute he can do.
Charlies style is about playing sympatheticaly to the songs - not being a flash git.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2009-05-29 15:16 by turd.
Re: charlie's horrible cymbal sound
Posted by:
stoneswashed77
()
Date: May 29, 2009 15:22
i like charlie watts drumming in general very much, but i hope for another great album.
and in my eyes what it needs next to other things, is better drumming than on recent stones records.
they all need to challange thereselfs again, also charlie.
i am sure he can do better, and i think he has to. i don´t want another record with the same drumming and drum sound than abb for example.
of course that´s just my opinion.
and in my eyes what it needs next to other things, is better drumming than on recent stones records.
they all need to challange thereselfs again, also charlie.
i am sure he can do better, and i think he has to. i don´t want another record with the same drumming and drum sound than abb for example.
of course that´s just my opinion.
Re: charlie's horrible cymbal sound
Posted by:
skipstone
()
Date: May 29, 2009 15:24
I forget where I've read it - it's been quite a few places over the years - but Miller plays the outro part of TD. There are no overdubs of the drums. How those sound overdubbed is - you must have some special hearing then.
Re: charlie's horrible cymbal sound
Posted by:
artalta
()
Date: May 29, 2009 16:04
Quote
stoneswashed77
if mick could he would leave the drummer and the guitarists behind and make his own thing for sure.
Mick can do that and, in fact, he has. And still does so from time to time. Mick's played Stones songs with fabulous musicians, real pros, and as good as they are, they aren't the Stones. They're just fine musicians playing Stones music perfectly well but lacking that certain something that has made the Stones what they are.
Btw, I have always liked the way Charlie uses that China splash.
Re: charlie's horrible cymbal sound
Posted by:
stoneswashed77
()
Date: May 29, 2009 16:16
[/quote]
Mick can do that and, in fact, he has. And still does so from time to time. Mick's played Stones songs with fabulous musicians, real pros, and as good as they are, they aren't the Stones. They're just fine musicians playing Stones music perfectly well but lacking that certain something that has made the Stones what they are.
Btw, I have always liked the way Charlie uses that China splash.[/quote]
you are right! but to be fair those were the 80´s and mick wanted that "modern" sound and way of playing. it wasn´t supposed to be a copy of the stones, he wanted it different.
Mick can do that and, in fact, he has. And still does so from time to time. Mick's played Stones songs with fabulous musicians, real pros, and as good as they are, they aren't the Stones. They're just fine musicians playing Stones music perfectly well but lacking that certain something that has made the Stones what they are.
Btw, I have always liked the way Charlie uses that China splash.[/quote]
you are right! but to be fair those were the 80´s and mick wanted that "modern" sound and way of playing. it wasn´t supposed to be a copy of the stones, he wanted it different.
Re: charlie's horrible cymbal sound
Posted by:
skipstone
()
Date: May 29, 2009 16:24
Different doesn't exactly mean good.
Re: charlie's horrible cymbal sound
Posted by:
peoplewitheyes
()
Date: May 29, 2009 16:42
I'm the one that opened this can of worms...
As His Majesty said, a lot of angry people here. Not to mention visually challenged.
I never said Charlie was 'irrelevant'. (What does relevant mean in art?)
Anthony invited us to apply the "china equation" on other situations, with some facetious examples. Well, what about a great piano player, applying his feel and talent but on a crappy DX7 (as many fantastic players did in the 80s)? Great player, great playing, still sounds horrible.
Also, Charlie's china being a trademark of his is an interesting argument, and I guess may have some validity. But given that the vast majority of the Stones greatest records were made in the days before used these cymbals, what does that say? It's the trademark of latter-day, off-the-boil Stones?
Anyway. Love Charlie. Great funky drummer. Simplicity and groove way better than 25 tom-tom double bass-drum show offs...
..Still don't like the dull sound of that china though! (and certainly not on every track)
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2009-05-29 19:24 by peoplewitheyes.
As His Majesty said, a lot of angry people here. Not to mention visually challenged.
I never said Charlie was 'irrelevant'. (What does relevant mean in art?)
Anthony invited us to apply the "china equation" on other situations, with some facetious examples. Well, what about a great piano player, applying his feel and talent but on a crappy DX7 (as many fantastic players did in the 80s)? Great player, great playing, still sounds horrible.
Also, Charlie's china being a trademark of his is an interesting argument, and I guess may have some validity. But given that the vast majority of the Stones greatest records were made in the days before used these cymbals, what does that say? It's the trademark of latter-day, off-the-boil Stones?
Anyway. Love Charlie. Great funky drummer. Simplicity and groove way better than 25 tom-tom double bass-drum show offs...
..Still don't like the dull sound of that china though! (and certainly not on every track)
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2009-05-29 19:24 by peoplewitheyes.
Re: charlie's horrible cymbal sound
Posted by:
Bärs
()
Date: May 29, 2009 18:14
Quote
stoneswashed77
you are right! but to be fair those were the 80´s and mick wanted that "modern" sound and way of playing. it wasn´t supposed to be a copy of the stones, he wanted it different.
We heard Waddy, Bernard and some other "pros" play Jumping Jack Flash a couple of days ago. Was it better than the Stones? No, they sounded like a typical rock/hard rock band: boring, loud, predictable and lacked groove (like AC/DC).
Re: charlie's horrible cymbal sound
Posted by:
vudicus
()
Date: May 29, 2009 18:43
Whether people like the sound of Charlies Cymbals or not, I cannot understand for the life of me why anyone is being negative about his playing these days.
He may be a different player than the Charlie of 1972 but he is still great.
He's in his 60s for @#$%& sake, what do you expect?
He may not be flash but he still keeps a mean groove and is the main engine of the greatest Rock 'n' Roll band in the World! Warts 'n All!
He keeps it simple, plays for the song, not for his own personal musical masturbation ego. How anyone can slate him is beyond me!
Sorry to say this, but some people who post on this board are a bunch of DICKS!.
It's not 1972 (or whatever year suits you best) and it never will be, now go back to building your time machines!
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014-11-09 19:47 by vudicus.
He may be a different player than the Charlie of 1972 but he is still great.
He's in his 60s for @#$%& sake, what do you expect?
He may not be flash but he still keeps a mean groove and is the main engine of the greatest Rock 'n' Roll band in the World! Warts 'n All!
He keeps it simple, plays for the song, not for his own personal musical masturbation ego. How anyone can slate him is beyond me!
Sorry to say this, but some people who post on this board are a bunch of DICKS!.
It's not 1972 (or whatever year suits you best) and it never will be, now go back to building your time machines!
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014-11-09 19:47 by vudicus.
Re: charlie's horrible cymbal sound
Posted by:
winjoe
()
Date: May 29, 2009 19:49
For the record (or cd, mp3, digital download, etc....) I never said anything about rimshots, much less something idiotic about them. That quote should be attributed to the person who was responding to me...after I responded to them.
Re: charlie's horrible cymbal sound
Posted by:
LieB
()
Date: May 29, 2009 20:14
peoplewitheyes summed this whole discussion up very well himself. Kudos to him and to everyone who has contributed interesting, insightful and respectful thoughts to this thread.
Re: charlie's horrible cymbal sound
Posted by:
winjoe
()
Date: May 29, 2009 20:15
Everything I've ever read or heard states that Charlie is drumming all the way through Tumbling Dice, but that Jimmy Miller was asked to play some fills on the outro after the original tracks were recorded. I don't know time frames here, and I don't know if Charlie just wasn't around, or if he couldn't get the feel, or what...
If you listen closely to the outro, it doesn't sound like just one drummer. It sounds like Charlie starts on the tom-tom, snare, and kick, but when the ride cymbal comes in and the fills start, it sounds like there are some "ghost hits" on the ride. And a couple of those amazing fills get back to the beat astonishingly quick. Which leads me to believe that Miller was listening to Charlie's original track and playing over it.
This would also explain why, during rehearsals for the '72 tour, Charlie pounds the tom-tom during the outro for a while and only goes briefly to the ride at the end, with nothing resembling the fills on the record.
I don't think this was really noticeable until Exile was "remastered" for CD. At least, I never noticed it on the album.
If you listen closely to the outro, it doesn't sound like just one drummer. It sounds like Charlie starts on the tom-tom, snare, and kick, but when the ride cymbal comes in and the fills start, it sounds like there are some "ghost hits" on the ride. And a couple of those amazing fills get back to the beat astonishingly quick. Which leads me to believe that Miller was listening to Charlie's original track and playing over it.
This would also explain why, during rehearsals for the '72 tour, Charlie pounds the tom-tom during the outro for a while and only goes briefly to the ride at the end, with nothing resembling the fills on the record.
I don't think this was really noticeable until Exile was "remastered" for CD. At least, I never noticed it on the album.
Re: charlie's horrible cymbal sound
Posted by:
Come On
()
Date: May 29, 2009 21:02
Let's talk about Ringo instead. That's the guy that have a brilliant cymbal sound.
2 1 2 0
2 1 2 0
Re: charlie's horrible cymbal sound
Posted by:
Rocky Dijon
()
Date: May 29, 2009 21:10
Charlie's live drumming in the modern era (1989-2007) can be a bit patchy, but the same is true of Mick's singing or Keith and Woody's guitar work. Charlie's studio drumming in the same era, I have nothing but praise for. He is the one member of the band who gets better with age, although he may have peaked in the nineties. Having only A BIGGER BANG to listen to, its difficult to judge if his bout with throat cancer or simply age has hampered his abilities since then. Based on his work with Tim Ries, I'd suspect not.
Re: charlie's horrible cymbal sound
Posted by:
Elmo Lewis
()
Date: May 30, 2009 04:14
Spent a couple of hours today listening to the master: Charlie Watts.
Drums, cymbals, high hat, etc. - it all sounds good to me.
Guitar/bass players and singer ain't bad either.
Drums, cymbals, high hat, etc. - it all sounds good to me.
Guitar/bass players and singer ain't bad either.
Re: charlie's horrible cymbal sound
Posted by:
ryanpow
()
Date: May 30, 2009 06:08
when people say stuff like "Charlie Watts isn't a really good drummer" and gives reasons that he's boring and he doesn't do any solos it makes me go AARRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGG!!!!!!
Re: charlie's horrible cymbal sound
Posted by:
CousinC
()
Date: May 30, 2009 17:07
UhUh, I see I pushed the wrong button . .
Charlie the last of the untouchable idols?
And sorry if some things didnot come across that clear, but English is NOT my language and sometimes I don't have the right words!
If you still love everything he/they do it's perfectly fine with me. But pardon me that I have another opinion!
Charlie the last of the untouchable idols?
And sorry if some things didnot come across that clear, but English is NOT my language and sometimes I don't have the right words!
If you still love everything he/they do it's perfectly fine with me. But pardon me that I have another opinion!
Re: charlie's horrible cymbal sound
Posted by:
drbryant
()
Date: May 30, 2009 18:44
Charlie is a great drummer; I don't know whether his playing is "interesting", but it's rock solid, like a metronome; I don't know how many of you have ever stood near the B-Stage at a stadium show, but as a former drummer, it amazes me that he can keep the beat with the delay from the stage speakers.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2009-05-30 18:45 by drbryant.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2009-05-30 18:45 by drbryant.
Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.
Online Users
alexander paul , Doxa , FloresMuertas , grzegorz67 , HotStuff92 , IsakSun , maumau , MisterDDDD , Mr Jimmy , Nellcote1971 , nonfilter , StonyRoad , TW2019 , usetobesampeg , willprefecture , wiredallnight , Zotz
Guests:
1417
Record Number of Users:
206
on June 1, 2022 23:50
Record Number of Guests:
9627
on January 2, 2024 23:10