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Silver Dagger
Are their any tapes of the Stones playing live in the 60s without Brian?
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with sssoul
>> the moralistic attitude of Keith towards Brian's drug abuse <<
... i guess you mean not liking a co-worker rendering himself unfit to function?
to me that's not the same as a "moralistic attitude toward [someone's] drug abuse".
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GazzaQuote
Silver Dagger
Are their any tapes of the Stones playing live in the 60s without Brian?
No.
In fact apart from a line/radio sourced recording of their final US show with him in Honolulu in 1966, there isnt even a single circulating recording of an American concert WITH Brian.
bewildering.
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StonesBlake
It wasn't just Mick and Keith who hated Brian. I believe Bob Dylan has some quotes about Brian being a jerk and a horrible person.
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Mathijs
The fact that Brian was deeply disliked by just about anyone who knew him doesn't help either.
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skipstone
You can't condemn Keith for how he feels about Brian - that is something that is beyond any of us, what they all went through. There is way more to it than just what is spoken about in magazines etc...and we can sit back and say Keith is an ass for saying what he says about Brian but it's not our life, our business, our history. It's his. So STFU.
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Mathijs
The fact that Brian was deeply disliked by just about anyone who knew him doesn't help either.
There you go again Mathijs with your blatant distortion of the truth about Brian Jones. Many people who knew Brian liked him and still say nice things about him. Here are a list of Brian's peers who have remembered him fondly over the years:
a.)George Harrison- tributed Brian upon his death
b.)Pete Townshend- claimed recently that he wants to write a song about Brian, saying that he was one of his best friends
c.)Paul McCartney- was fond of Brian in his recent autobiography
d.)Eric Burdon- lauded Brian in his autobiography, dubbing him the "late, great Brian Jones"
e.)Jimi Hendrix- dedicated a song for Brian during the Dick Cavett Show, shortly after his death in 1969
f.)Bob Dylan- paid for Brian's casket, certainly not the act of somebody who despised the latter
g.)Dave Davies- called Brian a great friend
h.)etc.etc.etc.
The only people who have consistently bashed Brian have been Mick, Keith, and their friends/underlings/lackeys. Get you facts straight before you spout such drivel.
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terraplane
Well Brian Jones was only 26 or 27 when he died so there was always a chance he could have turned himself around.
I think Keith's persistence in speaking ill of someone who has been dead nearly 40 years and not here to defend himself is pretty piss poor and unnecesary.
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terraplane
I think Keith's persistence in speaking ill of someone who has been dead nearly 40 years and not here to defend himself is pretty piss poor and unnecesary.
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terraplane
Well Brian Jones was only 26 or 27 when he died so there was always a chance he could have turned himself around.
I think Keith's persistence in speaking ill of someone who has been dead nearly 40 years and not here to defend himself is pretty piss poor and unnecesary.
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StonesBlake
It wasn't just Mick and Keith who hated Brian. I believe Bob Dylan has some quotes about Brian being a jerk and a horrible person.
Well, Bob thought highly enough of Brian to pay for his casket. And please provide those quotes from Bob because I've never read any quotes from him dissing Brian.
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StonesBlake
It wasn't just Mick and Keith who hated Brian. I believe Bob Dylan has some quotes about Brian being a jerk and a horrible person.
Well, Bob thought highly enough of Brian to pay for his casket. And please provide those quotes from Bob because I've never read any quotes from him dissing Brian.
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StonesBlake
Blonde on Blonde is named after him afterall.
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GazzaQuote
StonesBlake
Blonde on Blonde is named after him afterall.
There's absolutely nothing to substantiate that.
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Mathijs
All these people weren't friends, they were distant colleagues whom mainly knew Brian at the beginning (Dylan, Burdon, Dave Davies, Harrison) or in the end as a drugs buddy like Hendrix. Every book you read about the Stones from '65 to '69 mention the same thing about Brian -a disturbed, mentally ill person who clearly lost it due to paranoia and drugs. All of the Stones have stated in one way or the other that Brian was mentally ill, as well as many people around the Stones –just read Andrew Oldhams two books with plenty of remarks from people in the music business.
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Gazza
yep. Brian had left the band 3 weeks before he died and his only reported comment on the split was the tactful 'musical differences', 'amicable parting' official party line at the time. There's two sides to every story and by default one of them hasnt been heard, so its pretty easy to just pay lip service to the 'Brian was an @#$%&' line which has been the norm for almost 4 decades.
its somewhat sad and ironic that four decades after his death Brian comes in for much more stinging personal abuse from Keith than a still-breathing Allen Klein ever did. Its a pretty desperate way of trying to stay 'quoteworthy'.
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terraplane
I have read that Brian Jones believed that Dylan's Ballad Of A Thin Man had been be written about him ["Something going on here but you don't know what it is do you Mr.Jones"]
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Gazza
It's a bit simplistic though to assume that just because a character in a song written in the surrealist, cryptic style that Dylan is using in that song is called "Mr Jones" (which is a very common name), it's automatically about a real person with THAT name.
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Gazza
It's a bit simplistic though to assume that just because a character in a song written in the surrealist, cryptic style that Dylan is using in that song is called "Mr Jones" (which is a very common name), it's automatically about a real person with THAT name.
Well for my part I don't believe Dylan wrote it about Brian. It seems unlikely that he would launch a scathing personal attack in such a public way against somebody who by all accounts seemed a good friend. The "I'm Not There" movie suggests Dylan wrote that track about a journo. This seems the most plausible considering the opening line "You walk into the room with your pencil in your hand"
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gwen
The Stones probably were more patient with Keith because of his special relationship with both Charlie and Mick - and also because in the 70s they were more established and could afford to be patient and work on Keith's time
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All the people I listed above have themselves claimed that they were friends of Brian Jones. So you claim that Harrison, Townshend, McCartney, Burden, etc. were lying when they have stated they were friends of Brian? Also, do you consider ALO, a man who personally loathed Brian, an impartial source? Really? ALO would be the last person I would turn to for unfiltered, unbiased info on BJ.
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MathijsQuote
All the people I listed above have themselves claimed that they were friends of Brian Jones. So you claim that Harrison, Townshend, McCartney, Burden, etc. were lying when they have stated they were friends of Brian? Also, do you consider ALO, a man who personally loathed Brian, an impartial source? Really? ALO would be the last person I would turn to for unfiltered, unbiased info on BJ.
You must see these kind of friendships in a different light. These people were all musicians on the road and in the studio for 90% of their time. They would socialize in London clubs, meet at gigs or in studio's, but to say that they were real friends -letting each other in to their personal lives - not at all.
Oldham's books are a very good source. If you would read them you would find out they are actually compiled by quotes and stories by many different people from the music bizz. Oldham mostly talks about his own demons, but through the words of all the other contributors you get a good view over how these years were. And unfortunately for Brian, but all contributors agree that Brian was a mentilly ill man starting from '65.
By the way, what are the sources for Brian being good friends with Dylan? He visited London a couple of times, and it is reported that he met Brian there. Do we know if they were actual friends? And, do we have real proof Dylan paid for the coffin? It's always quoted that Dylan paid for the bronze coffin, but at least half of that quote is untrue: the coffin surely wasn't bronze (it was lowered manually, while a bronze coffin would be far too heavy for that).
Mathijs