My God....

I finally got the live album to listen, and I NEED to write this out. This is no longer funny...

I have taken the idea of the Stones being a Las Vegas orchestra as a metaphor, but the first time ever I hear my favourite band sound EXACTLY like a entertainment orchestra from some bloody Vegas night club.

Listen to "Little T&A" - a Keith Richards signature song - the song that defined the essence of living and earthing rock and roll in 1981/82 shows - look and listen ANY presentation of the song from that tour and you will hear the defination of flesh, pure and dirty ROCK AND ROLL.

And compare that to this piece of crap to be heard in SAL. The Rolling "The Greatest 'Rock and Roll Band' in the World" Stones Meets Dean Martin, for god sake... Bloody hell, 'sweet' family entartainment made for old people's home.

This is no longer funny.

RETIRE if this is the best you can. Keith - I love you, but you are losing your touch. Don't @#$%& do this to your legacy.

I will never listen the bloody album ever again. Why on earth they decided to release such a sad document of their recent condition? Isn't the film enough where you can enjoy the visual charisma of the guys and you don't need to put your whole attention into music. The music solely by itself can not stand any critical attention or scrutiny.

Call me a whiner or whatever but THIS is maybe the saddest day in my 27 yaers as Rolling Stones fan.

- Doxa



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2008-04-24 16:41 by Doxa.

agree!
the movie works very well because of the (as you mentioned) visual charisma of the guys and the joy they have playing. but the record is just unnecessary and simply awfull! little t&a is terrible!

you two really sound like you need some exercise, more roughage in your diet
and plenty of fresh air and sun on your glands.

Oh God. I was fearing this especially after the let down of two of the three 02 Arena shows.
Coming on the back of the Live Licks CD and No Security plus the two 4 DVD sets it does seem a bit like milking it. I think the band need to take a long hard look at themselves to stop themselves from sliding into being the biggest cabaret act in the world. Now's the time to take more risks, ease off the warhorses and play lesser known songs.

I agree, the record is a total stinker:


DISC 1:

1. Jumping Jack Flash (Boring, done to death and better than this version)

2. Shattered (Wrong tempo for this song. Mick doesn't sing. Just talks over the horrible noise)

3. She Was Hot (Mick has simply decided not to even try and hit a
single note on this one, also it's much too long)

4. All Down The Line (The band sound good, a bit ragged, but once again Mick can't be arsed)

5. Loving Cup (Average at best, Jack sounds a bit over-awed)

6. As Tears Go By (This seemed promosing. Jagger was finally old enough and experienced enough to sing this song. Instead he whimpers in a twangy mess of a vocal)

7. Some Girls (The band sound alive for the first time, great guitars, great vocals, everything and then no "Black girls just wanna get @#$%& all night" and it's ruined.

8. Just My Imagination (Phoned in performance, don't like the keyboards)

9. Champagne & Reefer(Best in show! Buddy Guy brings them to Life)

10. Tumbling Dice (Average performance)

11. You Got The Silver (Quite nice. Nothing to write home about)

12. Connection (A runaway mess. What would make them even think for a second this could work?)



Disc 2:

1. Sympathy For The Devil (The band sound good and the audience enjoy it)

2. Live With Me (Good vibe, but Christina squeals like a choking chicken and takes away from the ending)

3. Start Me Up (Boring)

4. Brown Sugar (Boring)

5. (I Can't Get No) Satisfaction (Boring)

6. Paint It Black (Average)

7. Little T&A (Missing the razor cutting riff of old. Too clean)

8. I'm Free (You wanna hear it, buy Stipped instead)

9. Shine A Light (The best of CD two, make of that what you will)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2008-04-24 17:32 by iamthedj.

Don't agree that the cd is horrible but do agree that Little T&A is.

As far as playing lesser known songs, I think this cd has that. Besides JJF and Tumbing Dice the first disc is full of them. However in general they do need to rest some songs they've played to death. Hopefully next time they play live we won't see stadium shows of the same hits again. Would love to see them try a new approach.

I disagree and enjoy the cd alot. Agreed t&a leaves alot to be desired. but wasn't there a thread about the cd already?

Quote
oldfan
I disagree and enjoy the cd alot. Agreed t&a leaves alot to be desired. but wasn't there a thread about the cd already?

Yeah, there was but I missed that train. I am sorry for making another thread about it, even though my point was more like bringing up one particular song. I was so 'shocked' that I needed to think it loud, so to say. For personal psychological reasons. I just can not relate to that music anymore.

Of course, LT&A is the worst, but there is not much to say about the rest either (expect Buddy Guy number and a couple others, probably). I just don't see the point of this release at all.

- Doxa

Which concert Doxa? Can I download this or find it on youtube? Damn it, some of the 80s and late 70s songs seemed to work, She was hot to name one.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2008-04-24 18:24 by LA FORUM.

Connection is much worse. T&A average. Far Away Eyes, which you didn´t mention, is great imo. CD 1 is all great imo.

But where is it recorded, is it one of the two nights from the film?

Quote
LA FORUM
Which concert Doxa? Can I download this or find it on youtube? Damn it, some of the 80s and late 70s songs seemed to work, She was hot to name one.

Deacon, SHINE A LIGHT CD. "She Was Hot" is decent. But as far as "Little T&A" goes, I would say that Keith Richards has no any reason to claim Mick Jagger for having betrayed "everything they stand for" by accepting the knighthood, namely this treatment is much worse betrayel against the values what they (used to) stand for.

- Doxa



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2008-04-24 18:36 by Doxa.

The new T&A is a good subject.

Of course it is different from the original.

Good or bad?

Doxa sees it as the end of the Stones he loves. I like this version.

Matter of tastes.

What is sure is that you could bet your ass that if keith wanted to play the intro riff as on the original, he would do so.

I understand that from Doxa's point of view, this is even worse, because the new direction this song took is wanted by keith and not imposed by his alleged deficiencies!

As I said I like it. You don't need to compare it to the original. It's good music, and well performed by a great band, that is it.

What I don't get is why we bitch and moan because they never change the arrangements of their old stuff, and when they do so, we bich and moan because they are not like the original.

C

Quote
DandelionPowderman
Connection is much worse. T&A average. Far Away Eyes, which you didn´t mention, is great imo. CD 1 is all great imo.

"Connection" is a bloody mess, but I don't mind that. The Stones always mess around, and it's part of their charm. But it is the approach to "Little T&A" that is does it for me - they have turned an edgy and nasty rock and roll song into a lazy cabaree song. Of course they don't do any (human) mistakes, because it is totally carried by professional side men. "Faraway Eyes" - Mick reads it through, without no any feeling or connection into it. Even the famous irony is absent.

- Doxa

Hey, Connection is GREAT in SHINE A LIGHT!!!!

I guess Doxas point is that the Stones today are about compromises. Keith can't play guitar like he used to. They cant perform songs like they want to. They need horns, synths, back up singers etc. They didnt need horns or even piano in 1981.

Quote
Wild Slivovitz
Hey, Connection is GREAT in SHINE A LIGHT!!!!

hey, lets not overuse superlatives! its good, maybe even very good, but not great. labelling each and every thing thing as "great" disgraces truly great performances like Love In Vain or Sympathy from YaYas.

Im really happy with SAL soundtrack, but I still distinguish between good-very good and GREAT-STELLAR performances which can stand the test of time and in case of the two mentioned, obviously did.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2008-04-24 21:22 by alimente.

"Little T&A" I knew even before I bought the CD was something that was going to be a dissapointment. A part of me hoped for the best but I just knew that it was going to be good (or bad) as what we got in the Austin DVD from "the Biggest Bang."

I think with Keith lately...he's taking a lot of songs all too lightly. To give his playing an adjective, it would be "casual." He plays a lot of songs way too "casually." It's as if he's playing guitar in his living room...just sitting around not minding what he's playing....just fooling around. We see and hear that instead of the AGGRESSIVE Keith Richards that we used to have.

"T&A" is an example of a song that was under-rehearsed and not ready to leave the kitchen yet. It's completely undercooked and needs more time on the stove. It seems the only rehearsal the songs gets is when he performs it on stage! That's not right. The song as it is played in SAL and on the tour is begging for structure and confidence. Keith doesn't know the lyrics too well and the breakdown in the middle is a bit hazy...

But with Keith it seems as long as he can barely get by on the song...it's okay to green light it for the stage. Somewhere it seems Keith has lost the discipline to nail the song completely in rehearsals before it's ready to be performed in front of an audience. It is Keith's leniency which causes this and many other factors that we've been hearing as of late.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2008-04-24 21:58 by Justin.

Quote
alimente

Quote
Wild Slivovitz
Hey, Connection is GREAT in SHINE A LIGHT!!!!

hey, lets not overuse superlatives! its good, maybe even very good, but not great. labelling each and every thing thing as "great" disgraces truly great performances like Love In Vain or Sympathy from YaYas.

Im really happy with SAL soundtrack, but I still distinguish between good-very good and GREAT-STELLAR performances which can stand the test of time and in case of the two mentioned, obviously did.

Hey, still I think it's a great version, because it conveys a sense of urgency and almost desperation... it's full of feeling, and moves me a lot, therefore it's great in my book, hope nobody gets offended because of this!!

I only wish that T&A featured more Keith. but the solos he plays on it sound really good to me.

His singing on YGTS is excellent though and so is Ron's slide gituar.

also, You have to admit that Learning the Game was a great one-off... come on.

It is a bit of a letdown.
If Keith would just play the guitar the whole tune instead of Blondie,it could be saved,like someone said the 81/82 version cooked,
Raw guitars at its best.

Coming Down Again

This is revisionist history.I'm all for guitars but,there is more to it than that - vocals for one.The 1982 versions of Little T&A are extremely hard to listen to.Let's be honest.They sound like garbage.I have the best sounding live cd's of the '82 tour including "Shattered In Europe" (Italy) and anytime I play them around people,they always say something along the lines of "put on the real version" i.e. the studio version.The 2006 versions are a better representation of the studio version.They are not perfect but,they're pretty good and much more listenable than the '82 versions.

the vegas routine is getting old, they perform in veagas and and sound vegas on alot of songs including T&A, i mean listen to the hampton and lstnt versions of T&A and SHATTERED compared to the bang versions, the former are so much better
its not even an issue,they are not even on the same planet, the bang versions have no killer edge to them, to generic and reliant on back up singers AND PLAYERS

Believe me,I have listened to Hampton etc. and I'm just not impressed by those live versions of T&A and in fact,I don't know anyone outside of this board who can or does listen to it.

well for that matter who outside this board listens to the bang versions?

I do agree with the vocals being better in the current live version of T-an A..than the 81/82 version,but Keiths playing on the verses in 81/82 is pure Keith.

Coming Down Again

Little T&A from present day cannot be compared to 1981, when it rocked.

The only solution is for Keith to be man enough to admit that he cannot play lead as well as Ronnie. He should be man enough to let Ronnie, sober and focused, off of his leash. Keith can still play some Chuck Berryish solos on a few.

Imagine SFTD with Keith playing a solid rhythm and Ronnie jammimg an extended lead!


Etc,etc.,etc..

Keith I still love you! You are still a legend!

For me, when Keith's guitar is missing in action, Connection becomes a cover version. And why is Ronnie way down in the mix when Keith isn't playing?

I'm listening for the second time to disk nr 1. That Jack ass raped "Loving Cup". I love "Champagne & Reefer". Got goose bumps when Buddy Guy opened his throat. I'll listen to it one more time. After that it will probably end on the pile for a long time...

Quote
liddas
The new T&A is a good subject.

Of course it is different from the original.

Good or bad?

Doxa sees it as the end of the Stones he loves. I like this version.

Matter of tastes.

What is sure is that you could bet your ass that if keith wanted to play the intro riff as on the original, he would do so.

I understand that from Doxa's point of view, this is even worse, because the new direction this song took is wanted by keith and not imposed by his alleged deficiencies!

As I said I like it. You don't need to compare it to the original. It's good music, and well performed by a great band, that is it.

What I don't get is why we bitch and moan because they never change the arrangements of their old stuff, and when they do so, we bich and moan because they are not like the original.

C

Yeah, you got it right what I tried to say (or whine...)

And you absolutely rised a good point about the 'dilemma' Keith and co are facing now. Well, its not their problem but ours, frankly..

I think I've been inconsistent sometimes - I do complain when the band and the arrengements are so stigmatized. But when there happens a radical change that is not good for me either...

Now, after a day afterwards I try to rethink the case. Namely, the impression I got from the CD - and very much cohers with my other impressions in during last few years - but it is so distinctive here, is the following: only Keith Richards is the force in the band who has encourage to try something different, He doesn't even try to act as he once did or copy himself. Sometimes the results are very impressive: I think the way Keith delivers "You Got The Silver" is absolotely stunning - but not as stunning as I first experienced live at El Ejido! That's something you could describe with the word 'maturation' or "growing up gracely" - words not most familiar in the context of The Stones. He really acts like a man of experience, who have 'seen it all, and done everything' and who doesn't really try to prove anything to anyone anymore and is satisfied with his recent condition, even happy about it. He is really leading the Stones into a new territory, to act like their true age is. Even though his abilities are limited, he does it wonderfully. Straight from one heart to other heart. Keith, you got the gold - the way Mick never does.

But then there are stuff like "Little T&A". Yeah, the tune is rearranged and reinterpreted. Keith sounds very 'grown up' - he sounds like an aged broken-voice drunken Las Vegas maestro, a'la Frank Sinatra, Dean Martin etc. - who enjoys his life with a drink glass in one hand, a cig on the other, and just freerides and enjoys the atmosphere and the admiration. The casual guitar in his hand is as substantial for him as it was once was for Elvis Presley. Looks good but... well, it looks good. Someone posted in LARS forum that he is playing the lead cigarette nowadays, and I think that nails the case.

Yeah, like liddas says, it is a matter of taste if one likes it or not. I hurray the change - that something Jagger hasn't done one inch since 1989 - but I am not really happy at all with the scenario that the next step of The Rolling Stones is going to be Frank Sinatra. Aren't there any other possibilities in sight? I am realist in a sense that Keith is not anymore capable to do things he did some ten to 40 years ago, the great dynamo and guitar nerve is now gone for good. Seemingly Keith is very conscious of that, and tries to compansate his lack of guitar skills (nad other things) with other means - and he is a great, charismatic performer, as SAL movie shows. Anyway, this is quite true of the others quite soon too, no matter what a kind of forever young duracell bunny Mick tries to prove himself to be. So are there other possibilities than to retire? Maybe there are. I think the great groove with Buddy Guy might give a hint what might be like if one wants to left the building with a dignity. One does need to take the Las Vegal model.

But let that to be seen. I still think that Keith songs are the most interesting performances what SAL CD provides (with C&K). All the Mick numbers - perhaps exluding "As Tears Go By" - are musically worthless - there is no any point of them to be realeased. Yeah, some of them are 'half-intersting' from a fan point of view - to hear so-and-so performances of the songs (trying to copy the original with Chuck Leavell lead, and Jagger miming singing) never released before in live album (is that really an argument to release music?), but otherwise 'new' versions of "Jumping Jack Flash", "Start Me Up", "Sympathy For The Devil", "Tumblin Dice" and "Brown Sugar" is a sign of such a creativity that makes one think of the stigmatized Soviet Union in its worst Breznev days. Any try to 'analysize' that what makes THIS particular version of "Jumping Jack Flash" significant (and thereby justified for its release) is a sign of total lack of common sense, judgment and imagination. It looks like that recent Stones did not barely borrow the idea of photograph revisionism from the Soviet Union times, they bloody hell seemed to adapt the whole ideaology of a mammuth that never moves forwards and never rethinks its strategy. Some people here remind the time of the 80's when still there were some people thinking that 'nothing wrong with the system; the criticism is just Western propaganda". I hope the collapse of The Stones, and neither their legacy, will not be like CCCR's...

- Doxa



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2008-04-25 11:41 by Doxa.