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Re: I am a fan since 1977, but I boycot this NEW album
Posted by: kees ()
Date: January 19, 2008 16:07

Cannot imagine even a 'hard core fan' needs the war horses on the release again.
And I have my doubts if musically the Stones are up to an acceptable standard to play the few 'rare' songs which were played those two gigs .
I hope on a release with really no warhorses at all

Re: I am a fan since 1977, but I boycot this NEW album
Posted by: LA FORUM ()
Date: January 19, 2008 16:07

Quote
keefed
Quote
The Stones
I'm going to download this album and then probably erase it since I'm getting fed up with all these live cds released from the Stones in recent years containing the same old song and dance.

Really? take a closer look once again at the track listing of live Stones albums of past 20 years, since Flashpoint. Then Stripped and No Security and finally Live Licks. So what is your conclusion?

That none of the above are live or good.

Re: I am a fan since 1977, but I boycot this NEW album
Posted by: Doxa ()
Date: January 19, 2008 17:07

Quote
kees
Cannot imagine even a 'hard core fan' needs the war horses on the release again.
And I have my doubts if musically the Stones are up to an acceptable standard to play the few 'rare' songs which were played thorese two gigs .

That's the problem with Stones live albums since FLASHPOINT. No one really does need one more album of their war horses, because they are played with the same orthodox way since 1989, All the difference - if there is any - can be heard in the technology and in the mixing. That was totally different case from GOT LIVE IF YOU WANT IT! to STILL LIFE, when the songs keep evolving along the years when the band changed alomg the years. I mean, just compare FLASHPOINT and the disc 1 one of LIVE LICKS. Big difference?

As far as rare numbers are concerned, the problem with them is that they are usually played quite below the standard. They are interesting to hear and sure highlights in the concerts (at least for us hard-core fans), but when the thrill of hearing them once or twice is gone, they don't musically stand the test of time. Does anyone really enjoy NO SECURITY and second disc of LIVE LICKS?

Another problem for seeing the relevance of live CDs is that the DVD has much taken the role of being the souvenier or the official document of the tours. After having bought 4 DVD boxes, that usually covers quite nicely both the obscure and the familiar material, it is very difficult to grasp the meaning of a plain CD. And there is the visual aspect also that makes it more exciting, when the music fails to do that - I think the visual aspect it is very much integral to their act nowadays.

Summa summarum, it is very difficult to get excited of a new Rolling Stones live album. It is quite difficult to imagine what extraordinary it could offer.

- Doxa

Re: I am a fan since 1977, but I boycot this NEW album
Posted by: texas fan ()
Date: January 19, 2008 17:13

Aah... isn't that great that it is a free world, and one can express own opinion without the fare of being crusified, burned, being accused of whining or something?grinning smiley

- Doxa[/quote]

But, the right to express an opinion doesn't make that opinion sacred or above criticism. Other people also have a right to express an opinion about your opinion, and if they think your opinion is a little whiny (or ignorant or evil or whatever) they get to say so. Now THAT's a free world, as opposed to only you being free...

Having clarified that, I'd really rather have a good new studio release..I too think there have been enough live releases of certain songs, but the songs chosen for the movie sound like they'd make a decent live album. At this stage of the career, I'm not in favor of turning away any product...

Re: I am a fan since 1977, but I boycot this NEW album
Posted by: cbtaco19 ()
Date: January 19, 2008 17:54

Quote
Doxa
In some other thread some people are playing with semantics that it is not 'just another live record' but a 'soundtrack' which is completely a different thing... Some are living in hope that Universal might release it in a nicer package, and maybe even promote it better, and thereby, we will have a more profile Stones product in our hands.

But as far as I am concerned we will get the same old shite - live versions of their biggest hits plus few obscurities - just in a different package. Just another musically worthless product to add to collections. Yes, I will by it - but not until summer or next year when the price is more decent. To this day, I haven't been able to give another listen to LIVE LICKS or whatever it was called, their latest live album. I have find it very hard to barely listen the band in their current condition without having a footage. I hope the actual film is a good one.

Aah... isn't that great that it is a free world, and one can express own opinion without the fare of being crusified, burned, being accused of whining or something?grinning smiley

- Doxa

Give it another try. I doubt that I ever listened to the first CD with the warhorses all the way through ever. CD two with the rarities is great (with maybe the exception of the Rocks Off edit- the heartbreak of that is that it's a fantastic live version that the hacked).

Anyway, I am a Live Licks Fan, CD 2 is all I needed.thumbs up

Re: I am a fan since 1977, but I boycot this NEW album
Posted by: Edward Twining ()
Date: January 19, 2008 18:21

I think Doxa is spot on - that's precisely the way i feel. Hardcore fans may try to find something to get excited about, yet the Stones live releases post 1989 have been by and large meaningless. None of the later versions of the older songs have any real musical resonance, unlike their 60s/70s output except the occasional novelty of hearing a little played song at odd times, but that only ammounts to a very short term thrill.It is also true there's so little to distinquish musically between their later tours.

Re: I am a fan since 1977, but I boycot this NEW album
Posted by: aprilfool ()
Date: January 19, 2008 21:26

A live album is not a new album. By this way could make a new album after every concert.

Re: I am a fan since 1977, but I boycot this NEW album
Posted by: Doxa ()
Date: January 19, 2008 21:28

Quote
Edward Twining
I think Doxa is spot on - that's precisely the way i feel. Hardcore fans may try to find something to get excited about, yet the Stones live releases post 1989 have been by and large meaningless. None of the later versions of the older songs have any real musical resonance, unlike their 60s/70s output except the occasional novelty of hearing a little played song at odd times, but that only ammounts to a very short term thrill.It is also true there's so little to distinquish musically between their later tours.

I really hope that some day we are to be treated with live albums that are meaningful and make difference; that means looking back. Namely, the musically greatest rock and roll tour ever (1972/73) is still without official recognition. It is a great loss for all the rock and roll fans all over the world. And if we talk about the Stones making difference,and sounding very unique, some kind of release of their 1978 tour would also be a thrill. Of course, all this is yesterday's news, and not a matter of making big money, but I keep on dreaming that there will be the day when the Stones really take more consideration into their incredible artistic legacy than to their instant income and fast profits. There is a nice example of this kind of different philosophy, of still continuing career and touring but still giving a respect to a significant and legendary past. Namely, their contemporary, Columbia artist named B. Dylan.

- Doxa



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2008-01-19 21:33 by Doxa.

Re: I am a fan since 1977, but I boycot this NEW album
Posted by: texas fan ()
Date: January 19, 2008 21:44

Those are good points, Doxa. I don't know if it's all about profit, though. I'm sure they'd say they are just trying to offer what makes the most people happy, and that may be a good point, too. It's complex, but whatever the reason, we still aren't getting good documentation of those tours you mention.

Re: I am a fan since 1977, but I boycot this NEW album
Posted by: schillid ()
Date: January 19, 2008 21:45

If you love the Stones and their music...
how long you've been a fan doesn't really matter.

(1977? smiling smiley, you're just a lightweight!)

Re: I am a fan since 1977, but I boycot this NEW album
Posted by: LA FORUM ()
Date: January 19, 2008 22:14

Quote
Doxa
I really hope that some day we are to be treated with live albums that are meaningful and make difference; that means looking back. Namely, the musically greatest rock and roll tour ever (1972/73) is still without official recognition. It is a great loss for all the rock and roll fans all over the world. And if we talk about the Stones making difference,and sounding very unique, some kind of release of their 1978 tour would also be a thrill. Of course, all this is yesterday's news, and not a matter of making big money, but I keep on dreaming that there will be the day when the Stones really take more consideration into their incredible artistic legacy than to their instant income and fast profits. There is a nice example of this kind of different philosophy, of still continuing career and touring but still giving a respect to a significant and legendary past. Namely, their contemporary, Columbia artist named B. Dylan.

- Doxa[/quote


Now aint that the truth. Amen.

Re: I am a fan since 1977, but I boycot this NEW album
Date: January 19, 2008 22:20

Your not needed anyway.

Re: I am a fan since 1977, but I boycot this NEW album
Posted by: Barn Owl ()
Date: January 19, 2008 22:21

As I see it, the Stones are simply cashing-in on the film, and as a "soundtrack", they probably have an obligation to put such an album out anyway.

However, by squeezing and re-hashing their back catalogue with an almost constant stream of generally sub-standard contemporary live output (each with similar arrangements), it can only serve to ultimately damage their long-term reputation as a "respected" performing act.

Indeed, as Doxa points out, these albums (with ever diminishing returns) offer nothing in the way of innovation, either in terms of re-arrangement or song selection; instead, serving only to dilute that once great and treasured institution, namely, a Rolling Stones live album.

They're now ten-a-penny.

They'll soon be ten FOR a penny.

Re: I am a fan since 1977, but I boycot this NEW album
Posted by: keeffriffhard ()
Date: January 19, 2008 22:48

After all, I exactly know what eventually will happen....one day I pass the record-store, I''ll sneak in and I'll just buy that NEW album (because I can't find the Zagreb 1976 tapes....because I have all their recordings, because....I just can't do without my beloved band...etc)
But the real NEW album......that's what I'm waiting for.

Re: language
Posted by: with sssoul ()
Date: January 20, 2008 01:30

>> They're now ten-a-penny. They'll soon be ten FOR a penny. <<

ten-a-penny means ten for a penny.

Re: I am a fan since 1977, but I boycot this NEW album
Posted by: ROLLINGSTONE ()
Date: January 20, 2008 01:47

Oh this is an emotive thread! hot smiley

"I'll be in my basement room with a needle and a spoon."

Re: I am a fan since 1977, but I boycot this NEW album
Posted by: ghostryder13 ()
Date: January 20, 2008 02:48

ten yrs ago i boycotted bridges to babylon because of the song anybody seen my baby sound later oned too much like the pop music of the time and felt stupid after i discovered that it's a pretty good album

Re: I am a fan since 1977, but I boycot this NEW album
Posted by: mickschix ()
Date: January 20, 2008 02:50

You can boycott whatever you want but I think real Stones fans will be dying to hear it! I may download it but I will also BUY it! I have always loved the anticipation of all Stones albums/cds,movies, and tour annoucements and this will be no exception.

Re: language
Posted by: Barn Owl ()
Date: January 20, 2008 03:13

Quote
with sssoul
>> They're now ten-a-penny. They'll soon be ten FOR a penny. <<

ten-a-penny means ten for a penny.

Nice to see an attentive IORRean in our midst!

However, the term "ten-a-penny" is commonly used in the UK to describe something as being far too plentiful and easily available.

Thus, the terms used in my posting, metaphoric and literate, were used deliberately; one being as a direct consequence of another.

Re: I am a fan since 1977, but I boycot this NEW album
Posted by: Gazza ()
Date: January 20, 2008 03:41

Live Licks was the first album I elected not to buy on the day it came out since I became a Stones fan almost 30 years earlier. I thought the idea of releasing an edited soundtrack of a DVD which had been already out for a year was a cheap, shoddily put together cash-in not worthy of their name and reputation. I waited a few weeks until it was in the bargain bins at half price. Likewise with Rarities.

Cant say I'm overly excited about this one, but I suppose its natural enough that a movie of a concert would also have a soundtrack CD. I just hope that the fact that its a film doesnt mean the tracklisting is going to be warhorse-heavy.

I just think that in the DVD-age, live albums are pretty obsolete and pointless in general. Lookin' forward to the film, though. The clips I've seen look good.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2008-01-20 03:44 by Gazza.

Re: I am a fan since 1977, but I boycot this NEW album
Posted by: MTFan ()
Date: January 20, 2008 11:30

I have my doubts about the Rollling Stones musical standard since their last
live tour in 1973, and in the studio after Black & Blue,when Ron Wood became a fultime member.
He could have replaced Keith Richards,but Mick Taylor?

Re: I am a fan since 1977, but I boycot this NEW album
Posted by: JumpingKentFlash ()
Date: January 20, 2008 13:07

Quote
Edward Twining
yet the Stones live releases post 1989 have been by and large meaningless. None of the later versions of the older songs have any real musical resonance, unlike their 60s/70s output except the occasional novelty of hearing a little played song at odd times, but that only ammounts to a very short term thrill.It is also true there's so little to distinquish musically between their later tours.


This is where I disagree. I think songs like BS, JJF, Satisfaction, SMU, IORR are way better now than they were back in the day.

Also: Live albums may be obsolete, but not for a band that has continously released them since the beginning of their career (Which is also the reason they release much of their backcatalog on LP). And why should DVDs have anything to do with live CD becoming obsolete? VHS video tapes wasn't that much different from DVDs, and live CDs weren't obsolete in 1994.

The Shine A Light film seems to me like Stripped In Concert. I can't wait.


Quote
MTFan
I have my doubts about the Rollling Stones musical standard since their last
live tour in 1973, and in the studio after Black & Blue,when Ron Wood became a fultime member.
He could have replaced Keith Richards,but Mick Taylor?

Sure he could. MT was great but certainly had his limitations. It's the same like Bowie dropped that great guitar player he had in the late nineties.

JumpingKentFlash

Re: I am a fan since 1977, but I boycot this NEW album
Posted by: sluissie ()
Date: January 20, 2008 13:51

Quote
MTFan
I have my doubts about the Rollling Stones musical standard since their last
live tour in 1973, and in the studio after Black & Blue,when Ron Wood became a fultime member.
He could have replaced Keith Richards,but Mick Taylor?

...erased reaction...

Edit: oops, I had barey hit the button and I already felt guilty for not being able to resist the temptation of posting this... I'd better remove it... done!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2008-01-20 13:53 by sluissie.

Re: I am a fan since 1977, but I boycot this NEW album
Posted by: texas fan ()
Date: January 20, 2008 15:55

MTFan

He could have replaced Keith Richards,but Mick Taylor?


Keep thinking about this one..



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2008-01-20 15:57 by texas fan.

Re: I am a fan since 1977, but I boycot this NEW album
Posted by: retired_dog ()
Date: January 20, 2008 18:02

Technically, Ronnie replaced Mick Taylor, and Mick Taylor replaced Brian Jones. Musically, Ronnie and Mick Taylor weren't replacements. Their styles and attitudes were drastically different so that when Mick Taylor and later Ronnie joined the band sound changed considerably and the Stones entered a new phase each time.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2008-01-20 18:02 by retired_dog.

Re: I am a fan since 1977, but I boycot this NEW album
Posted by: Gazza ()
Date: January 20, 2008 18:31

Quote
JumpingKentFlash
Also: Live albums may be obsolete, but not for a band that has continously released them since the beginning of their career

thats why they SHOULD be.

Quote
JumpingKentFlash
And why should DVDs have anything to do with live CD becoming obsolete? VHS video tapes wasn't that much different from DVDs, and live CDs weren't obsolete in 1994.

They were getting there.

I would say that the amount of live albums released by MOST bands since the 80s and 90s is definitely less than it was before. And the proliferation of live Videos/DVDs would be a factor in that. The only notable trend in terms of releasing mroe live CDs in recent years has been by some older acts issuing 'archive' live releases. How many bands other than the Stones do you know who release live CDs from their CURRENT tours now? I cant think of too many - and none who do it from every tour.

Simple reason why theyre relatively obsolete is that with a DVD you have a more complete listening experience than it is on audio or on videotape - being able to see the music as well as listen to it in surround sound.

Re: I am a fan since 1977, but I boycot this NEW album
Posted by: Duane in Houston ()
Date: January 20, 2008 19:16

Would someone please post the set-list for this show so that I may consider the possibilites of this "new" release?

Re: I am a fan since 1977, but I boycot this NEW album
Posted by: billwebster ()
Date: January 21, 2008 00:54

It's time to wait for the track listing.

'Soundtrack album for a concert film' doesn't mean an entire concert on disc. There could be soundcheck on the album. There could also be a scene backstage in which the radio plays a song by another artist that could be on the album. Soundtrack albums often include songs from and/or inspired by the movie, in which case a new studio recording as a single might be possible - or a re-cut classic, or several re-cut classics covered by one or two of the guest artists in the film.
A soundtrack album could be anything. I just hope there's not too many orchestral score music cues... ;-)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2008-01-21 00:55 by billwebster.

Re: I am a fan since 1977, but I boycot this NEW album
Posted by: Nikolai ()
Date: January 21, 2008 01:03

Quote
Doxa
Quote
Edward Twining
I think Doxa is spot on - that's precisely the way i feel. Hardcore fans may try to find something to get excited about, yet the Stones live releases post 1989 have been by and large meaningless. None of the later versions of the older songs have any real musical resonance, unlike their 60s/70s output except the occasional novelty of hearing a little played song at odd times, but that only ammounts to a very short term thrill.It is also true there's so little to distinquish musically between their later tours.

I really hope that some day we are to be treated with live albums that are meaningful and make difference; that means looking back. Namely, the musically greatest rock and roll tour ever (1972/73) is still without official recognition. It is a great loss for all the rock and roll fans all over the world. And if we talk about the Stones making difference,and sounding very unique, some kind of release of their 1978 tour would also be a thrill. Of course, all this is yesterday's news, and not a matter of making big money, but I keep on dreaming that there will be the day when the Stones really take more consideration into their incredible artistic legacy than to their instant income and fast profits. There is a nice example of this kind of different philosophy, of still continuing career and touring but still giving a respect to a significant and legendary past. Namely, their contemporary, Columbia artist named B. Dylan.

- Doxa

Yes indeed! Can't see it happening though. What? Jagger releasing live albums from the golden era? Perish the thought. Why do THAT (something which, if properly marketed. could probably outsell their latest studio offerings and all of their previous live albums since Still Life), when you can release an album of last year's Warhorse Race. With Christina Aguilera and Sheryl Crowe massacring great songs. Yay!

Re: I am a fan since 1977, but I boycot this NEW album
Posted by: Bashlets ()
Date: January 21, 2008 01:09

Hoping that it sounds very good. If it's a shitty mix, and performance it will completely hurt the movie. I can not see them releasing a soundtrack unless they were totally happy with their performance.
Bottom line- the public is going to have access to this before they see the film.

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