Has Mick/Keith ever admitted that Ronnie wrote the tune?

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Can't be certain but it's highly unlikely. Such an admission would raise copyright/royalty issues (if Ronnie felt bloody minded enough).
I don't even think Ronnie's 12-string made it to the final mix.
Can't remember what they said about Bill's claim to Jumpin'Jack Flash.

"I'll be in my basement room with a needle and a spoon."

Bill didn't claim to have written the song? Wasn't it only the riff he was talking about? (That pretty much IS the song, but...)

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audun-eg Wrote:
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> Bill didn't claim to have written the song? Wasn't
> it only the riff he was talking about? (That
> pretty much IS the song, but...)


Yeah you're right. I remember a previous thread debated at what stage a contribution should merit a writing credit.

no, Bill didn't claim to have written the song; he claimed he was playing the riff (i think on keyboards)
along with Charlie and Brian when the Glimmer Twins came in and said "that sounds good."
what i always wonder is whether Bill's ever admitted in public that what they were doing
when the Glimmer Twins waltzed in was playing Satisfaction backwards. :E
(i've never heard any other Stone corroborate Bill's story, although LA Forum will no doubt say he has.)

as for IORR: Ronnie's said that he and Mick wrote it together, along with I Can Feel the Fire.
they then agreed that they'd each take one of the numbers as their own (Mick's then being shared with Keith
due to their tradition of crediting each other). the other option would've been to credit both numbers
to Jagger/Richards/Wood, but ... well, they didn't didn't didn't (yeah yeah) :E

oh and: Ronnie's 12-string is apparently the only trace of Ronnie that wasn't later eradicated from the track.
here's a page with some quotes about it: [www.timeisonourside.com]



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2008-01-10 19:36 by with sssoul.

with sssoul Wrote:
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> what i always wonder is whether Bill's ever
> admitted in public that what they were doing
> when the Glimmer Twins waltzed in was playing
> Satisfaction backwards.

That could be right for the "end" riff, but not for the main riff, if you can see what I'm trying to say...


>
> as for IORR: Ronnie's said that he and Mick wrote
> it together, along with I Can Feel the Fire.
> they then agreed that they'd each take one of the
> numbers as their own (Mick's then being shared
> with Keith
> due to their tradition of crediting each other).
> the other option would've been to credit both
> numbers
> to Jagger/Richards/Wood, but ... well, they didn't
> didn't didn't (yeah yeah) :E
>
> oh and: Ronnie's 12-string is apparently the only
> trace of Ronnie that wasn't later eradicated from
> the track.
... And Charlie didn't bother re-doing the drums, and Bill the bass.

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with sssoul Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> what i always wonder is whether Bill's ever
> admitted in public that what they were doing
> when the Glimmer Twins waltzed in was playing
> Satisfaction backwards.


I know Keith has always said that - but when I try playin the Satisfaction riff backwards, it sounds just like the Satisfaction riff forwards lol.

Mind you it would probably help if I could actually play the guitar properly. hehe

>> That could be right for the "end" riff, but not for the main riff <<

smile: what i wrote was meant as humour anyway - or at least mainly as humour;
and in any case it isn't very clear (at least to me) what exact bit Bill claims he came up with.

with sssoul Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> >> That could be right for the "end" riff, but not
> for the main riff <<
>
> smile: what i wrote was meant as humour anyway -
> or at least mainly as humour;
> and in any case it isn't very clear (at least to
> me) what exact bit Bill claims he came up with.

Yes, but strictly theoretical, the end riff could be a reverse form of the Satisfaction-riff, but then again.... ;-)

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have it your way - whatever it is! [passing popcorn]
anyway back to the original question: there's nothing sinister about the IORR credit situation.
does anyone happen to know if Elmore James ever acknowledged Robert Johnson for Dust My Broom?
and/or if Johnson ever credited his sources for it?

Was just kidding...

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Isn't this another one Mick Taylor has taken the credit for? Including everything the Stones recorded whilst he was their guitarist? :-}

do you think ron realized that, as good as "I Can Feel the Fire" is, he was getting the worse end of the deal (if his story is at all true)? or did the track not sound hit-worthy until the overdub stage and keith's contributions?

Originally recorded in Ron's home studio with Mick J and Ron on guitar, Weeks on bass, Jones on drums and Bowie back-up vocals. Rumours: Taylor was not on the song due to being hospitalized, Keith added overdubs maybe even redid the lead and Stu on piano.

Officially the songs is written as being inspired by Wood - that's how cloe you can get without getting credits.

>> he was getting the worse end of the deal (if his story is at all true)? <<

why would he tell the story if it weren't true, cc?
if the divide had gone the other way i bet people would be saying
I Can Feel the Fire was the "better" end of the deal.

>> Keith added overdubs maybe even redid the lead <<

why "maybe even"? Keith redid all the original electric guitars.
the site i gave a link to a few posts ago really is pretty good - check it out! :E

audun-eg Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> with sssoul Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> > what i always wonder is whether Bill's ever
> > admitted in public that what they were doing
> > when the Glimmer Twins waltzed in was playing
> > Satisfaction backwards.
>
> That could be right for the "end" riff, but not
> for the main riff, if you can see what I'm trying
> to say...
>
>
It's more like JJF was Satisfaction riff 'inside and out', not literally backwards/reverse.

As for IORR, Ronnie co-wrote the song with Keef at Ronnie's house. The song was then introduced to Mick and the rest is history. I believe David Bowie had something to do with the song too. Why the song's credits don't include Ronnie remains a mystery but Jagger/Richards is the standard publishing credits listing.

edit



Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 2008-01-10 13:42 by mr edward.

<maybe even redid the lead and Stu on piano.>

It no doubt about Keith playing the solo on the final track.

with sssoul Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> why would he tell the story if it weren't true,
> cc?
> if the divide had gone the other way i bet people
> would be saying
> I Can Feel the Fire was the "better" end of the
> deal.

I guess it sounds true enough. But don't you think "IORR" probably had more "hit" potential from the get-go, and I wonder if ron felt the same way and just gave it up for the sake of his friendship with the Stones (ultimately a prudent move). It's a catchy tune. I don't mean better or worse, just more chart-likely.

Actually, I wonder how much the song was rewritten by keith (and mick) in the overdub stage. The whole "I like it" refrain could have been crafted in the re-mix... or it could have been all there was, and they wrote the rest in the overdub stage! It would be fascinating to hear intermediate versions... oh well, maybe Tom Stoppard will get a hold of them for us.

maybe they divided them the way they did because Ronnie had more input in I Can Feel the Fire -
sometimes when he tells the story that's how it sounds, and it would make enough sense.
it's hard to speculate which would've sounded more hit-worthy if the split had gone the other way,
so ... so i won't.

>> oh well, maybe Tom Stoppard will get a hold of them for us. <<

sounds like a plan :E :E :E



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2008-01-10 00:05 by with sssoul.

with sssoul Wrote:
------------------------------------------------------
>
> why would he tell the story if it weren't true,
> cc?

I don't know. Why would he say he was at the Hyde Park show?

because he was at the june hyde park show, maybe, and has since gotten it confused with july?
but since it's hard to see how the evil Glimmer Twins owe him royalties for that, it's not nearly as much fun :E

if creating a riff was a cause for getting songwriting credits then brian jones, mick taylor, wayne perkins, harvel mandel and so on would get credited. creating a riff is one thing but creating the finished product is another

Creating a riff would get you credits. Creating a lick however, wouldn't get you a dime.

I do not have the sleeve here with me, but as I recall the album sleeve of IORR credited the song IORR as written by Jagger/Richards insp. Ron Wood. O yes, here it is:

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Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2008-01-10 11:52 by marcovandereijk.

Yes, and Billy Preston gets one for Melody (I think) on B&B. I wondered did that get either of them a little coin or was it just a nice thing to do?

The latter, although whether you would describe giving someone an (unpaid) 'thank you' for a song they (at least) co-wrote as a 'nice thing to do' is another matter.

i don't think too many of us know for certain that they didn't get paid anything;
meanwhile, in the case of IORR and Fire, if the deal was that each contributor took one song,
as Ronnie says, then why do fans see that as some kind of Glimmer Wickedness? just out of habit? :E

As far as sharing the credits go, I think Ron Wood quite honestly describes the credition business in the context of the Stones in ACCORDING TO THE ROLLING STONES: You need 'earn' the credit by being patient and tough, but not too tough: if you insist too much you will not to be asked again to work with them (that what happened to Billy Preston). Obviously Mick Taylor didn't have either that patience. "Hey Negrita" was Ronnie's riff which he took with him for his audition with the band. Obviously, there is no credition for him in BLACK&BLUE. It looks like that ever-faithfull, humble and no complaining Ronnie was finally given a bless by giving his share of credits when that was appropriate.

- Doxa

Most definitely on Black and Blue the source of "inspiration" was mentioned on the album cover for both Melody and Negrita.

And talking about credits and money. Do you think Mick Taylor pays the Twins when he plays songs like Time waits for no one or Can't you hear me knocking on stage? Does Ronnie pay the Twins when he plays Dance, Black Limousine, Pretty beat up?