steffiestones Wrote:
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> between the 82 tour and the 89 tour,there are 7
> years and the people where happy to see the stones
> again.Now,between the 89 and 2007 they did 4
> tours,approx 4-5 years between each tour.maybe are
> the people tired of the stones


Its been five world tours since Steel Wheels started, and this is actually the 7th summer that the Stones have played in Europe since 1990, and the third in the last five years.

Saturation to some degree for many people, but I'd agree with Svartmer that there are only so many potential concert-goers who are going to see a band every time they tour - regardless of how good they are - when other major acts are charging far less for tickets and have put their shows on sale months before the Stones did.

If the Stones announced their shows in good time and charged normal prices, they could fill every stadium for the entire summer in Europe this year and every year.

I'm sure that if they had chosen De Kuip in Rotterdam for the dutch gig it would have been a sell out

Steffiestones, if the people were tired of the Stones all over, then ABB wouldn't be attended by 3,700,000 people so far (not including Rio's free gig).
But a few main markets, like Germany and Holland, yes, are obviously satiated after so many tours in the last years. In addition, people are cautious in some countries (like Belgium or Frankfurt) where we had cancelations a year ago. But even so, if the prices were lower the situation would be better in these "problematic" countries. Prices should be mutch lower ATLEAST for cities of the the cancelations 2006...

"If the Stones announced their shows in good time and charged normal prices, they could fill every stadium for the entire summer in Europe this year and every year."

I think Gazza is 100% right.

The ticket prices are the more discusting considering how filthy rich the Stones are. I think they can afford a couple of more mansions, limos and horses etc whithout my hard earned money. Remember Salt of the Earth anyone? Cynical isn´t it?

Svartmer Wrote:
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> The ticket prices are the more discusting
> considering how filthy rich the Stones are. I
> think they can afford a couple of more mansions,
> limos and horses etc whithout my hard earned
> money. Remember Salt of the Earth anyone? Cynical
> isn´t it?


That is a point of view but still - they don't force you to buy tickets, thereby buying mansions, limos and horses for your hard-earned money.

I wasn't going to go for exact those reasons. I saw the Stones last year on a stadium (Horsens) - it was good, they kicked ass, but I was not willing to pay even more to see them for the fifth time in Copenhagen Stadium.

Then Van Morrison signed on - the rest is history ;-)

Always the same discussion. In the end most if not all venues are packed and they have sold +90% of the tickets.

Kartoffelsalat Wrote:
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> Always the same discussion. In the end most if not
> all venues are packed and they have sold +90% of
> the tickets.

Not this time. At least not in Werchter (maybe 30.000 will turn up, would be still a disaster), Frankfurt and some other stops.

Kartoffelsalat wrote:
"Always the same discussion. In the end most if not all venues are packed and they have sold +90% of the tickets."

Yes, indeed. But this doesn't mean that the prices are "normal". Prices are too high and, in addition, the Stones announced the dates with lateness. Under "normal" conditions the things would be much easier, everywhere.

beast of burgk wrote (answering Kartoffelsalat) :
"Not this time. At least not in Werchter (maybe 30.000 will turn up, would be still a disaster), Frankfurt and some other stops."

Look at the whole picture. They have sold well, even very well, for the gigs that will take place in the whole Nordic, in France, Ireland, London and- if reports here are correct- East Europe too. For the time beeing they have REAL problems for the concerts that will take place in Belgium, Holland, Frankfurt, Rome. Still a few cases. IMO having sold 50% of the tickets for the two german gigs that will take place in 13 and 15 August isn't an alarming situation. Many time until then. Maybe a kind of danger is coming from another factor: middle August in Germany is a "difficult" time for concerts, due to the vacations. But if the information that 50% of the tickets for these shows are already sold is true, i couldn't consider the sales as bad.

A year ago the "problematic" cases were more, but finally the Stones sold 87% of the tickets in Europe. This average percentage had been reduced by the Germany (80%). In the rest of the Europe it was at the level of +90%.

In my opinion, if 30,000 attend Werchter I think can be considered as a success due to the population of Belgium : 10 Millions. And I still think that some good promotion due to the Band currently rehearsing in Brussels can drive some more thousands. Isn't Werchter in the middle of nowhere in terms of accessibility. Just add to the fact that the gig is to take place in the middle of a week.

maybe to avoid embarassment they can just fill up the rehearsal room in brussells? save some money on stage setup . . .

phd Wrote:
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> In my opinion, if 30,000 attend Werchter I think
> can be considered as a success due to the
> population of Belgium : 10 Millions. And I still
> think that some good promotion due to the Band
> currently rehearsing in Brussels can drive some
> more thousands. Isn't Werchter in the middle of
> nowhere in terms of accessibility. Just add to the
> fact that the gig is to take place in the middle
> of a week.


In which case, at the risk of stating the bloody obvious, wouldnt it have made sense to have held the show in Brussels - where it was SUPPOSED to take place 12 months ago?

I think the touring management will learn the lesson that old people, I mean Stones fans now average 40+ years, do not want to be treated worse thanh animals anymore. An outdoor show is great. In the middle of the city. But Werchter is a festival site so far oustide any place on earth you need a car or a bicycle and the whole day to get in & out there. It is a nightmare. If you are 20 years old you may enjoy 3 days of a festival at a muddy rainy place with ugly transportation organizations but when you have been around for some years you need a minimum of comport.

On the other hand, as all the other Stones Werchter shows have been over-sold and over-packed I am sure this one will be just great still. I don't care if there are 20,000 or 70,000 people behind me really. And I think most people who go on IORR are in the golden circle anyway, with most people behind them.

Bjornulf

Think your right bv

__________________________

.. i hope they open up with jumping jack flash or start me up AGAIN.

bv Wrote:
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> I think the touring management will learn the
> lesson that old people, I mean Stones fans now
> average 40+ years, do not want to be treated worse
> thanh animals anymore. An outdoor show is great.
> In the middle of the city. But Werchter is a
> festival site so far oustide any place on earth
> you need a car or a bicycle and the whole day to
> get in & out there. It is a nightmare. If you are
> 20 years old you may enjoy 3 days of a festival at
> a muddy rainy place with ugly transportation
> organizations but when you have been around for
> some years you need a minimum of comport.
>

Youre right. From personal experience (and less of the 'old', you! ), the only Stones shows I'd have any interest in seeing are those in cities. IOW held no interest for me whatsoever - although Im glad theyre playing it so that a younger audience can get to see them - and the choice of where they were playing the Dutch show made it an easy decision to go elsewhere instead.

Those type of festival shows are fine if youre pricing the show to an audience that is into that sort of event. Pricing it for an older audience and then expecting them to trek out to a field miles from anywhere is idiotic .

bv wrote:
"I think the touring management will learn the lesson that old people, I mean Stones fans now average 40+ years, do not want to be treated worse than animals anymore. An outdoor show is great. In the middle of the city. But Werchter is a festival site so far oustide any place on earth
you need a car or a bicycle and the whole day to
get in & out there. It is a nightmare."

Gazza wrote:
"From personal experience (and less of the 'old', you! ), the only Stones shows I'd have any interest in seeing are those in cities."

Folks, i'm not sure that your conclusion is the right conclusion.
My arguments:
Werchter's position remains the same on the map since 2003, i guess... And then the Stones played in front of 75,000 people. Hard to believe that the last four years did change dramatically the average age of Stones fans. In addition, on ABB tour we have seen the biggest audiences in Festival Sites. Moncton 89,260 people, Horsens 84,588 people. Huge crowds. I don't remember about Moncton, but if my memory is correct, Horsens is 30 minutes by train from Aarhus and two + hours from Copenhagen, also by train. Not exacltly "in the middle of nowhere" but not close to a big city- market, i guess. And what about Slane? Not a city. But the tickets had been sold in a few hours.

I think the difference between Werchter 2003 and Werchter 2007 is clear: Lack of promotion (now) and, first of all, extremely cautious people due to the cancelation 2006. So, please, don't don't blame Festival Sites, even they're not in a big city. Besides, you can see a lot of young people there and the sound is usualy nice and clear...

stickydion Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>>
> Folks, i'm not sure that your conclusion is the
> right conclusion.


well, it is for me, and thats all that matters!


> My arguments:
> Werchter's position remains the same on the map
> since 2003, i guess... And then the Stones played
> in front of 75,000 people. Hard to believe that
> the last four years did change dramatically the
> average age of Stones fans. In addition, on ABB
> tour we have seen the biggest audiences in
> Festival Sites. Moncton 89,260 people, Horsens
> 84,588 people. Huge crowds. I don't remember about
> Moncton, but if my memory is correct, Horsens is
> 30 minutes by train from Aarhus and two + hours
> from Copenhagen, also by train. Not exacltly "in
> the middle of nowhere" but not close to a big
> city- market, i guess. And what about Slane? Not a
> city. But the tickets had been sold in a few
> hours.

Slane is about 20 miles from Dublin. People will go to that show regardless of who's playing, If you, me and bv booked Slane for a Saturday in August, we could probably sell about 15,000 tickets as it would attract that many people who just turn up to get drunk and get their ears blasted.



>
> I think the difference between Werchter 2003 and
> Werchter 2007 is clear: Lack of promotion (now)
> and, first of all, extremely cautious people due
> to the cancelation 2006. So, please, don't don't
> blame Festival Sites, even they're not in a big
> city. Besides, you can see a lot of young people
> there and the sound is usualy nice and clear...


prices for Stones shows in Europe tend to be a lot more than they were in 2003 and before. Thats another factor. Add to that the fact that the Werchter show in 2003 was on a Sunday - this show is on a Tuesday.

Moncton was a Saturday and Horsens was a Sunday.

The day of the week is a significant factor if youre organising a show miles away from a major urban area.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2007-05-28 18:21 by Gazza.

Werchter is a Tuesday night. People have to take time off work to be there early. If it was week-end it would be sold out.

Bjornulf

20 000 tix sold?
where does this kind of information come from??
display those sources telling you that

glimmer twin 81 Wrote:
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> 20 000 tix sold?
> where does this kind of information come from??
> display those sources telling you that

in 2 Belgian newspapers.

bv Wrote:
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> Werchter is a Tuesday night. People have to take
> time off work to be there early. If it was
> week-end it would be sold out.

that's a good reason too.

On Tuesday, June 5th, there's 1 bus from Leuven to Werchter every 2 hours!!!!!
On that same day, the last bus from Werchter back to Leuven is around 8 pm.................

Chris from Belgium

coowouters Wrote:
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> On Tuesday, June 5th, there's 1 bus from Leuven to
> Werchter every 2 hours!!!!!
> On that same day, the last bus from Werchter back
> to Leuven is around 8 pm.................

jesus, that's awful! hell, with the crowd so small, however, you all might be able to hitch a ride back to leuven in the stones' bus!

Gazza Wrote: If
> you, me and bv booked Slane for a Saturday in
> August, we could probably sell about 15,000
> tickets as it would attract that many people who
> just turn up to get drunk and get their ears
> blasted.




Would you play Winter?

"It's just some friends of mine and they're busting down the door"

sweetcharmedlife Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Gazza Wrote: If
> > you, me and bv booked Slane for a Saturday in
> > August, we could probably sell about 15,000
> > tickets as it would attract that many people
> who
> > just turn up to get drunk and get their ears
> > blasted.
>
>
>
>
> Would you play Winter?



I would, but I think I'd be outvoted in favour of warhorses.....

'let's not forget that werchter in 2003 was also not a real stonesshow, maybe for us, but it was a festival: TW classic and not just the stones, AND again it was rescheduled because they played SARSstock



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2007-05-28 22:23 by Rik.

I don't get the particular sense of this thread. I know that a large audience is understood as a status symbol for many fans.
The more people the more respect for the band. But for me counting sold tickets is kind of pedantic.

First I doubt that any other band will make it this far to rock'n roll for about 40 years very successful and still no sign of retirement.

Seeing Richards moving like a wiry pirate on stage, Jagger jumping and running,evoking the impression of an 18 year old boy (apart from his face) and still never loosing his breath. All this after two years on the road already.

Remember Britney Spears or Robbie Williams (just examples, names can be exchanged arbitrarily)? Getting exhausted and mad after just a few months of touring and not even half the age of a single Rolling Stone? Did Madonna even tour a full year?

When this tour is over and the next one in 2-3 years is already on the horizon (what else can they do?) nobody will remember a slow ticket sale in wherever Werchter.

I really don't think that the Stones financial success (and this is what it's all about in the first place) is depending on the local ticket sales. I assume that their bank account is well-stuffed before their tour starts and they can care less how many people gather in front of the stage.

I guess we are just witnessing the Jagger disease: being a pathological musician, narcissist and businessman. He just can't live without presenting himself on stage, without the Stones and without the aim of earning more money from tour to tour. Otherwise he would probably have ended like Elvis or Kurt Cobain(...).

So I suggest to live with that, stop moaning and enjoy the concert.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2007-05-29 00:06 by Ludwig8745.

Gazza wrote:

(Á) "If you, me and bv booked Slane for a Saturday in August, we could probably sell about 15,000 tickets as it would attract that many people who just turn up to get drunk and get their ears blasted."

Maybe it's a good idea. I think about it...


( "Prices for Stones shows in Europe tend to be a lot more than they were in 2003 and before. Thats another factor. Add to that the fact that the Werchter show in 2003 was on a Sunday - this show is on a Tuesday. Moncton was a Saturday and Horsens was a Sunday.The day of the week is a significant factor if youre organising a show miles away from a major urban area."

Agree. But if the managment of the Stones is not able to select a good day for a gig in Werchter, what can we say? No comments..

stickydion Wrote:
> Agree. But if the managment of the Stones is not
> able to select a good day for a gig in Werchter,
> what can we say?

We can say that they couldnt organise a game of strip poker in a brothel....

Ludwig8745 wrote:

(1) "First I doubt that any other band will make it this far to rock'n roll for about 40 years very successful and still no sign of retirement..."

(2) "Seeing Richards moving like a wiry pirate on stage, Jagger jumping and running,evoking the impression of an 18 year old boy (apart from his face) and still never loosing his breath. All this after two years on the road already..."

(3) "When this tour is over and the next one in 2-3 years is already on the horizon (what else can they do?) nobody will remember a slow ticket sale in wherever Werchter."

Ludwig8745, i'm not in the "let's moan again" camp. I love their performances and appreciate 100% what they offer us today. Their incredible popularity makes me feel proud, once again: despite these highest ticket prices, they remain the most attractive, the most attended live act in the world. In addition, i said it one million times: noone remembers today that in 1990 had been canceled two european gigs (Turin#2, Dublin) due to slow ticket sales. Noone remembers that in 1998 had been canceled four european shows for the same reason. Noone does care about the 15,000 unsold tickets for the gig in Chile, in 1995, or for the 22,000 unsold tickets for Munich #2 in 1982, etc, etc. If a band has this extraordinary success worlwide, drawing million of people, any discussion about sporadic bad sales is absolutely pointless ...

...BUT, BUT, BUT...

...But the point is different here. It has to do with the relation between the Stones and people, their fans included. By these ticket prices, a part of young audiences is breaking away from the band. Simple as that. I still see a remarkable number of young people in their concerts but this number could be clearly bigger. Very important factor. It has to do not only with the atmosphere in the concerts, but also with their legacy. Their ability to confirm that the Stones are still panetrating, in every generation. God, they are charging for Poland prices which could be normal for Los Angeles! What the hell M. Cohl and local promoters are thinking?

And the question is: WHY? If the answer is "because their all time gross record must be at the level of $520 million instead of $450 million", sorry, it sounds crazy in my ears...

Besides, their managment seems to entrust everything to their popularity! Very short time between tour's announcement and tour's start. Highest prices, lack of promotion, even in the cities hited by the cancelations of the last year. Look at the results: now a lot of people who bought tickets for Frankfurt gig do have trouble just because the usuful stadium's sections are reduced. Why? Because their managment wasn't able to estimate the things right. Gig in Werchter on Tuesday, etc, etc...

When all is said, if people are paying a lot to see the greatest, the best rock band in the world, why on earth this legentary band pays M. Cohl for?? To break another one gross record? They could do it easily, one way or another. The record was in their pocket, in every case. They could do it drawing 500,000 or 600,000 more people, by normal prices.

I know, i know... When i read the first line of the first review for the Werchter concert, when i hear the first Keith's riff in Barcelona, will not remember these things. My thought will be "hey, maybe i could live without the sun and the moon but not without the Stones". That's why i expess my thoughts now. Because when the party starts, only my ears, my eyes, my soul and my...screaming will "speak"...