Hey people, what's the use of these 'what if's'? There simply is no 'if' in this case. We can speculate about what's going to happen, but the past is a fait accompli. It makes more sense to investigate, interprete, share, talk about and analyze about what happened, not about what would have happened, as to Brian. It's not real.

PS: It's also useless to speculate about how the Stones would have sounded on albums and live if Taylor never quit. He quit.

I'm afraid I am one of those people that appreciates he was integral to the band, but ultimately thinks he was a bit of an overrated strung out arsehole



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010-08-22 18:36 by letitloose.

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kleermaker
Hey people, what's the use of these 'what if's'? There simply is no 'if' in this case. We can speculate about what's going to happen, but the past is a fait accompli. It makes more sense to investigate, interprete, share, talk about and analyze about what happened, not about what would have happened, as to Brian. It's not real.

PS: It's also useless to speculate about how the Stones would have sounded on albums and live if Taylor never quit. He quit.

You are right. Very well said.

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letitloose
he was a bit of an overrated strung out arsehole

I'd say that Brian was no more arsehole than any other rockstar that have had problems with drugs.

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kleermaker
Hey people, what's the use of these 'what if's'? There simply is no 'if' in this case. We can speculate about what's going to happen, but the past is a fait accompli. It makes more sense to investigate, interprete, share, talk about and analyze about what happened, not about what would have happened, as to Brian. It's not real.

PS: It's also useless to speculate about how the Stones would have sounded on albums and live if Taylor never quit. He quit.

Well, you're not wrong but, also, I don't quite agree.

Partly I enjoy the new stories and partly (I think) it's useful to remember that people aren't just what actually happened (or is known to have happened) but a range of possibilities.

Ok..I kinda regret being so harsh. I just think he lacked the talent the rest of the band had, and yet he is lauded sometimes as being the most talented Stone. For years I thought Brian played lead guitar on all those 60s records, but now I know that was Keith on "She said yeah" etc. Mabye his strength lied in adding psychadelic undertones to the bands sound circa 66-67, but that was never going to guarantee his future in the band

See, that's where you lose me. Brian "....lacked the talent the rest of the band had." It seems everyone else in the group agrees that he was more talented than the rest of them when the band started. Charlie still marvels at the slide solo on 'I Wanna Be Your Man'. Keith played the rock solos, Brian played the blues solos, and voila you had the Rolling Stones. 'Time Is On My Side', 'Little Red Rooster', 'I'm Movin' On', 'I Can't Be Satisfied', 'No Expectations', the circular hook on 'The Last Time', 'I'm A King Bee', and more I could excavate, all Brian soloing. Brian "...lacked the talent the rest of the band had." I think I'm going to go lay down.

24FP, you are probably right. See I don't want a fight. Perhaps his talent was too fragmented and too fleeting. I still think he was a pretty unpalatable person tho. Loadsa kids, no responsibility.

Brian's adding of various instruments during the mid-60's made many of the songs rememberable. He knew what instrument that would fit where and what notes to play. That and his earlier work on harmonica and slide guitar shows that he had talent and that he was a great musician - 'nuff said.

That is also what Brian Jones should be remembered for if only people could focus on something else than his darkest moments in life.

I don't lionize anyone who brings children into this world and then abandons them. John pretty much abandoned Julian. It's more important to raise your children right than it is to be a rock star. Mick has done his own share of damage in the abandoned children field. I don't care if he has supported them financially, that does little for the day to day need of having parents be there. In retrospect, 27 can still be pretty young emotionally. Brian never got the chance to make it right with his progeny, if such a thing could have been done. Same with Jimi Hendrix. Hendrix and Lennon should have known better.

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ChelseaDrugstore
For some reason I always think that Brian would be really really fat!

That's hilarious! That's exactly the image I have of him too.

[thepowergoats.com]

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24FPS
I don't lionize anyone who brings children into this world and then abandons them. John pretty much abandoned Julian. It's more important to raise your children right than it is to be a rock star. Mick has done his own share of damage in the abandoned children field. I don't care if he has supported them financially, that does little for the day to day need of having parents be there. In retrospect, 27 can still be pretty young emotionally. Brian never got the chance to make it right with his progeny, if such a thing could have been done. Same with Jimi Hendrix. Hendrix and Lennon should have known better.

Hendrix and Lennon did also beat up their women. But they are not remembered for that. Brian, somehow, is!? Negative campagning anyone?

(Just to be clear: No, I don't try to defend Brian for beating up women. That's not the point)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010-08-22 22:18 by tonterapi.

Brian disappeared before most of the world knew anything about him. I remember the July 4th weekend of 1969 hearing over the radio that Brian had died. They played Satisfaction afterward, and I assumed that he must have played the main riff. I was still into the Beatles more and it wasn't until 1972 that I really got into the Stones history. There was a large softcover book, maybe published by Rolling Stone magazine, with a lot of past articles on Brian, mostly written soon after his death. That's where I read of him hurting women with bicycle chains and I think that's where I saw the first picture of him dressed as a Nazi. It gave the impression that he was the 'real' Rolling Stone, the incarnate being of everything debauched ever imagined about the group. And the fact that at that time if looked like his life style got him offed at an early age only added to the mystique.

It took years for me to realize what Brian meant to the group, musically and visually. And the sensitivity and yearning he left behind in Ruby Tuesday, Backstreet Girl, and other songs,led me to believe something soft and tragic was there as well. The more people understood Hendrix' f-ed up childhood, the more of a pass they gave him. And, although it's ultimately not an excuse, he, and Brian, were taking massive amounts of powerful drugs. Lennon pretty much recognized and apologized for his misogynistic ways when he was younger. I think people tend to look at Lennon differently, because no matter how screwed up and complicated he was, there always seemed to be an honesty about him, even if you didn't like what he was saying. Brian never got to defend himself, and his nasty side pretty much destroyed his relationships within the group. Outsiders like Harrison and Dylan and Townshend, who didn't have to deal with him on a regular basis, were pretty sympathetic. And to be honest, no one has stepped forward to say they really knew Brian. Even the band members get this strange look on their face to this day when an interviewer asks them about Brian. He seems an unresolved riddle to them as well.

Woman I'm Trouble.....................

I'm not defending his abuse toward women, but the bicycle chain or dog chain story has never been proven. That, I believe, was in Rawlings book so take that for what it is worth. Jones's childhood wasn't that great either. He had, according to reports, a lonely and loveless upbringing. To be fair to his parents one of his younger sisters died at two of leukemia so I'm sure that screwed up the family dynamics. Jones was very insecure and psychologists in his court ordered visits after the 1967 drug bust said he was having enormous difficulty finding himself.

Just like Marie said above Brian's childhood wasn't a walk in the park and some of his actions make me believe that he suffered from either a bi-polar syndrome or some sort of Aspberger. The drugs exaggerated all that and he lost control.
Maybe people would have had a different view of him if he had been around to defend himself because right now it seems like it's free to judge him harsh on stories that are either hear-say or don't give us the full picture.

I just find it so freaking disrespectful and plain sad that things like the "bicycle chain or dog chain" type stories has become the "truth" even if it's only mentioned at one place and can't be proven.
As I've understand Brian he was more of a difficult persona with a lot of inner struggle rather than just a big jerk.

More like Eric Clapton, successful solo act!!

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jamesfdouglas
... like Mick Taylor?

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tonterapi

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letitloose
he was a bit of an overrated strung out arsehole

I'd say that Brian was no more arsehole than any other rockstar that have had problems with drugs.

You guys actually met him?

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Koen

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tonterapi
I'd say that Brian was no more arsehole than any other rockstar that have had problems with drugs.

You guys actually met him?

Nope. Brian had been dead for a long time before I was born. But I've read more about him for the last 12 years or so than the average Stones-fan. I base my picture of Brian on all of that and don't just stick to one source.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2010-08-23 17:15 by tonterapi.

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sweet neo con
most people do better after BJ

ROFL, yes just like they became better after 69.

Whitout Brian's dead, I'm afraid the Stones will probably stop early in the 70's

I'd thought that Brian hadn't formed a band with Alexis Korner after the Stones but I came across this page [www.ukrockfestivals.com] and near the bottom Nick South or someone claiming to be Nick South has written in and said:

I would just like to reply to your request to contribute any info on this concert. My name is Nick South and I played bass with Alexis Korner's New Church at this 'Stones In The Park' concert. Colin Hodgkinson did many gigs with Alexis but on this occasion I was playing bass with Alexis. Alexis and I and the rest of New Church had been playing in a new band with Brian Jones right up to his unexpected death and we went on to play this concert.

It's the bit in turquoise.

Which makes it sound much more formal than I'd thought. Does anyone know any more?



Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 2010-08-28 21:37 by Squiggle.

Brian was no different than many rock start of his generation. Many Stones fans for some reason like to remember him as this mean person, but what about Mick Jagger, Keith Richards, John Lennon, Keith Moon, Jimi Hendrix, Bob Dylan, Lou Reed, etc? Were they nice people? Please, let's not kid ourselves here. Brian has gotten a bad rap and that's that.

He would have met up with John Lennon one nite - and after too much booze and weed, they would have talked about collaborating....Brian would then have drifted towards Lou Reed, the Factory - that kind of scene - eventually getting on with Bowie.We might see a clip of him at Plato's Retreat. Not much would be heard from Brian as the 80's came along - every now and then talk about a 'project' or some kind of retrospective in the back pages of a paper somewhere..... Rumours of a reunion with the Stones runs rampant in the late 80's and early 90's - but nothing comes of it.... Some kind of silly news story would capture our attention about Brian's trees on his property irking the neighbours; or Brian seen drunk and causing a public disturbance some night.... We see him on TMZ one evening - and he actually looks kind of cool - simply taking a walk, smiling , saying some thing unexpected but cool.... Then, last year, in 2009, we read how Brian Jones died of heart complications - and begin reading the accolades - especially those from Mick and Keith.

"..maybe your friends say...."

Lennon was jealous of Brian. "It's not like he was a genius or anything", was his reply to being asked about Brian later. Of course he was. No one said he was in John's league. Lennon just couldn't throw another artist a bone. I remember the last interview, for Playboy, Lennon criticized the Stones for continuing. I loved Lennon but he sure could be insecure and infuriating. Like Brian.

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24FPS
Lennon was jealous of Brian. "It's not like he was a genius or anything", was his reply to being asked about Brian later. Of course he was. No one said he was in John's league. Lennon just couldn't throw another artist a bone. I remember the last interview, for Playboy, Lennon criticized the Stones for continuing. I loved Lennon but he sure could be insecure and infuriating. Like Brian.

You're interpretation of that statement is wrong.

Sorry, but it is.

John and Brian were good friends. Pure and simple.

John actually says "and he wasn't sort of brilliant or anything....he was just a nice guy."

Prior to that ststement he is responding to a question about "what was Brian like."

He says that "he was different over the years as he disintegrated. he was one of those guys who disintegrated right in front of you...but in the beginning he was alright. he was full of confidence. he was in a lot of pain."

All of these statements are quite obviously true.

The point John was making was rather than talking about his musical ability...he was just a nice guy.

Hell, none of his own bandmates ever described Brian as a "nice guy" and frankly, when I read John's words it felt like there was at least ONE guy actually sticking up for him

Ofcourse, now we know that George had nice things to say about Brian and Paul, especially in Many Years From Now, talked about what a gas Brian was.

So, I understand you sticking up for Brian about John but really, John was taking a shot at Brian. His intentino was to compliment the guy.

SIDENOTE:

John and Brian jammed with Denny Laine in late 1968 in an ad hoc band called Balls. It also featured Trevor Burton (of Move) and a few other guys. They recorded a demo called Go to the Mountain which Apple Records had but it was never released and has probably vanished.

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jeff14
Perhaps Brian would've moved to Southern California where the Rolling Stones were always popular and lived in say, Laurel Canyon, found himself a decent songwriting partner, and put out minor selling bluesy albums. I think that he would have a small fan base that would pick up his music.He would have company in the Canyon with fellow Englishmen Graham Nash and John Mayall...Mayall would help with getting the blues chops together and Nash would bring the hippie vibe and mellow Brian out.

He might then have died near Santa Catalina Island, the place where actress Natalie Wood had drowned on November 29, 1981. What do you think?

~Ben

I think if Brian had lived, he may have become a progressive-rock musician in the style of such bands as Yes, Genesis, Gentle Giant and Supertramp.

Everyone here is always going to say what they want about their fallen Stones guitarist.

~Ben

10. He'd have created safer swimming pools for children everywhere across the UK.

09. He'd have taken a real job, with real job security.

08. He'd have settled down with the right girl.

07. He'd be closer to understanding if there is a god

06. He'd have saved his money wisely

05. He'd have been a better child, lover, & parent

04. He'd know who his real friends are

03. He'd know how precious each day is

02. He'd know what he'd do, if he could do it all again

01. He'd sleep soundly and safely each and every night


But he died. Didn't he?

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BrianJones1969

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jeff14
Perhaps Brian would've moved to Southern California where the Rolling Stones were always popular and lived in say, Laurel Canyon, found himself a decent songwriting partner, and put out minor selling bluesy albums. I think that he would have a small fan base that would pick up his music.He would have company in the Canyon with fellow Englishmen Graham Nash and John Mayall...Mayall would help with getting the blues chops together and Nash would bring the hippie vibe and mellow Brian out.

He might then have died near Santa Catalina Island, the place where actress Natalie Wood had drowned on November 29, 1981. What do you think?

~Ben

He might have then decided not to drown but to join the Stones with Mick Taylor in Kansas on December 14,1981.