sweet neo con Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What year did Brian grow the beard? Did he have
> any kids? (i'm probably the 1% on this board that
> doesn't know the answers)
> [news.bbc.co.uk]
> 4_brian_jones300.jpg

Great, sweet neo con. I know several pictures of bearded Brian, but this one is new to me. He looks a bit worse than on the others. To answer your question: it can only be from January 1968.

>> Did he have any kids? <<

ulp: yes he sure did.

with sssoul Wrote:
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> >> Did he have any kids? <<
>
> ulp: yes he sure did.

At least four or five (!). Every baby had another mother. The first son is ca. 48 (!) years old now. I'm not kidding.

with sssoul Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> >> the Yellow Submarine premiere <<
>
> that was july 68, right?

Yes it was, hmm maybe I;m wrong about when it was taken though... the pic I've seen is Brian and Suki and he has a hat on and he's is holding a small box with what appears to be a yellow submarine in it. He looks horrible. There's also another pic from what appears to be the same day, but he;s minus the hat.

His Majesty Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> with sssoul Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > >> the Yellow Submarine premiere <<
> >
> > that was july 68, right?
>
> Yes it was, hmm maybe I;m wrong about when it was
> taken though... the pic I've seen is Brian and
> Suki and he has a hat on and he's is holding a
> small box with what appears to be a yellow
> submarine in it. He looks horrible. There's also
> another pic from what appears to be the same day,
> but he;s minus the hat.

Any chance you can find it!? And a big thanks to you for joining this important thread! Hope we'll find some more - more or less horrible - Brian pictures from his last year on earth.

beast of burgk Wrote:

>
>
> I never heard of "autumn 1968 rehearsals" or do
> you mean "RnR Circus rehearsals"?

Well, I dont know what they're rehearsing , but its late 68 and prior to the r&r curcus.


ethan russell 1968

"Somewhere in East London, the Rolljng Stones were rehearsing, and I was sent along.I was really such a beginning photographer, I didn't know what was meant by "Type B" film, or "Tungsten" or "daylight balanced," so the color I shot had a golden tinge to it when processed. I liked it. It was fine. I was an art student, after all."


ethan russell 1968


taken by spanish tony, theres another few in his book i think!?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2006-12-02 23:30 by His Majesty.

>> By the way, this 1969 session was at Redlands, not Olympic.
The length of Richards' and Jagger's hair ... make it impossible that these pictures are from 1968. <<

i too think they're more likely to be early 69, but i don't consider late 68 impossible.
there are so few photos from late 68, and Keith could've grown his hair long after Brian's trial in september
and then cut it at the end of november when they did the Frost Show. it's pretty hard to see how long it is in these shots anyway,
and of course he has that way of having every conceivable length of hair all at the same time ...
ahem, but i digress. sorry!

with sssoul Wrote:

>
> i too think they're more likely to be early 69,
> but i don't consider late 68 impossible.
> there are so few photos from late 68, and Keith
> could've grown his hair long after Brian's trial
> in september
> and then cut it at the end of november when they
> did the Frost Show. it's pretty hard to see how
> long it is in these shots anyway,
> and of course he has that way of having every
> conceivable length of hair all at the same time
> ...
> ahem, but i digress. sorry!

Jeez, its way to easy to get caught up in this kinda stuff! help!!!

I think the combination of Brian looking more 69 than late 68, plus the presence of Ry Cooder makes it more likely to be spring 1969.

Theres pics of ry cooder near an vox ac30 if I remeber right, I used to own this book about 10 years ago, i'm surprised i (maybe)remember.

yeah, i don't mean to make too much of a case for late-68 for those Redlands shots -
i just try to keep myself from leaping to too many conclusions about the less-photographed phases.

those "late 68 rehearsals" though ... Ethan Russell is the cat who (bless him!) insists that the TTPD shots
and the cover of HTW are all from 68, so even though the ones you've posted are clearly 68,
i wouldn't take Ethan's word for the "late" part, or for the "rehearsal" part. my guess would be mid-68.

with sssoul Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> yeah, i don't mean to make too much of a case for
> late-68 for those Redlands shots -
> i just try to keep myself from leaping to too many
> conclusions about the less-photographed phases.
>
> those "late 68 rehearsals" though ... Ethan
> Russell is the cat who (bless him!) insists that
> the TTPD shots
> and the cover of HTW are all from 68, so even
> though the ones you've posted are clearly 68,
> i wouldn't take Ethan's word for the "late" part,
> or for the "rehearsal" part. my guess would be
> mid-68.


The "autumn 1968 rehearsal" shoots make sense: Keith' hair is shorter than on the "1969" Cooper photos and Brian's hair looks very similar to all three well photographed (late 1968) events: September 1968 trial// RnR Circus incl. rehearsals// the "US flag shirt phto session" from (probably) late 1968.

According to Nico Zentgraf:

681116A 16th November: London, Morgan Studios. Producer: Jimmy Miller.
Sound engineer: Andy Johns.
- Rolls Royce And Acid (Jack Nitzsche) -unconfirmed
- You Can't Always Get What You Want II (MJ/KR) -Al Kooper on keyboards,
unverified early version without horns and choir

681117A 17th November: London, Olympic Sound Studios. Producer: Jimmy Miller
- Memo From Turner II (MJ/KR) - Al Kooper on guitar; early version with
different vocal-take and lead guitar but without acoustic guitar
- Memo From Turner III (MJ/KR) -Al Kooper on guitar; early version with
different vocal-take and additional acoustic guitar
- Memo From Turner IV (MJ/KR) -Al Kooper on guitar; Metamorphosis-version



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2006-12-03 00:39 by beast of burgk.

well but look at him at the Frost Show on november 29th - not even Keith could grow his hair that fast ...


- november 29th 1968 (still don't know who took it, sorry!)

with sssoul Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> well but look at him at the Frost Show on november
> 29th - not even Keith could grow his hair that
> fast ...
>
> [img.photobucket.com]
> iorr/19681129DavidFrost_DailyMirror.jpg
> - november 29th 1968 (still don't know who took
> it, sorry!)


I don't know. Material enough for a big book! But still I think the autumn 1968 rehearsal picture belong to November 1968. Keith' hair at the Frost show is not TOO far away. It a matter of "kämmen" too. (I don't know the English word, sorry).

Stones hair experts unite!

Ethan thinks HTW - honky tonk women was shot in 1968!?!?!?!

... all right, i take it all back.
Keith was wearing two rings on his right hand in autumn 68, and only one in the mid-68 shots;
since he's got two rings in that Ethan Russell photo with the Firebird, that indeed slants it toward autumn.
so either he did indeed grow his hair way longer in like 10 days, or Nico is missing some session they had in autumn 68.
if it wasn't a recording session, Nico might well not have it (and in another context he's said there may have been other late-68 sessions);
Stanley Booth mentions being at some kind of rehearsal when he was in England around the time of Brian's trial ...
hm, let me look that up in Stanley.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2006-12-03 00:55 by with sssoul.

And I thought Lady Sssoul was going to pounce on that Firebird Keith is playing...

"...no longer shall you trudge 'cross my peaceful mind."

That looks more like a rehearsal than any recording session... no mics on amps, a fairly small space/low roof by the look of it.

Ther's a few other shots from the same day, ones of brian behind charlie etc.

I;m beginning to get Brian fatigue now!

>> It a matter of "kämmen" too <<

is "combing" the word you're looking for? i'm not sure Keith did that at that stage in his career - but i know what you mean.
still, look at that shot from the day of Brian's trial - Keith's got very close to the same look as in the Ethan Russell shot.

with sssoul Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> still, look at that shot from the day of Brian's
> trial - Keith's got very close to the same look as
> in the Ethan Russell shot.

Indeed... It wouldn't take much effort to squeeze in a few rehearsals before mick started filming performance.

I'm not so keen on this reliance on the info put forward by nico etc, it's good as a basis, but...



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2006-12-03 00:20 by His Majesty.

>> Ethan thinks HTW - honky tonk women was shot in 1968!?!?!? <<

i know i know - but try telling him that Mick T bein in the shot sort of makes it obviously 1969 ... just sort of :E

>> And I thought Lady Sssoul was going to pounce on that Firebird Keith is playing <<

oh i pounced all right! just not in this thread. it's the same nonreverse Firebird 7 he had on stage in Warsaw 67, if i'm not mistaken.

but back to Stanley - i'm looking at his Keith bio, and yep, he's indeed describing a scene shortly after Brian's september trial
"at the Stones' rehearsal halls - located on Bermondsey Street in the warehouse district of Southeast London"
so that could be the location/timeframe for those shots. what do you think?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2006-12-03 00:23 by with sssoul.

with sssoul Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> >> Ethan thinks HTW - honky tonk women was shot in
> 1968!?!?!? <<
>
> i know i know - but try telling him that Mick T
> bein in the shot sort of makes it obviously 1969
> ... just sort of :E
>
> >> And I thought Lady Sssoul was going to pounce
> on that Firebird Keith is playing <<
>
> oh i pounced all right! just not in this thread.
> it's the same nonreverse Firebird 7 he had on
> stage in Warsaw 67, if i'm not mistaken.
>
> but back to Stanlet - yep, he's indeed describing
> a scene shortly after Brian's september trial
> "at the Stones' rehearsal halls - located on
> Bermondsey Street in the warehouse district of
> Southeast London"
> so that could be the location/timeframe for those
> shots. what do you think?

Sounds good, it fits!

Is that the very same firebird Brian plays for no expectations at the r&r circus?

Who owned these damn guitars!? Keith is seen with the es-330 in 69 for example. Is that the same one brian played live in 1967 and at these rehearsals?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2006-12-03 00:24 by His Majesty.

His Majesty Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> with sssoul Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > >> Ethan thinks HTW - honky tonk women was shot
> in
> > 1968!?!?!? <<
> >
> > i know i know - but try telling him that Mick T
> > bein in the shot sort of makes it obviously
> 1969
> > ... just sort of :E
> >
> > >> And I thought Lady Sssoul was going to
> pounce
> > on that Firebird Keith is playing <<
> >
> > oh i pounced all right! just not in this
> thread.
> > it's the same nonreverse Firebird 7 he had on
> > stage in Warsaw 67, if i'm not mistaken.
> >
> > but back to Stanlet - yep, he's indeed
> describing
> > a scene shortly after Brian's september trial
> > "at the Stones' rehearsal halls - located on
> > Bermondsey Street in the warehouse district of
> > Southeast London"
> > so that could be the location/timeframe for
> those
> > shots. what do you think?
>
> Sounds good, it fits!
>
> Is that the very same firebird Brian plays for no
> expectations at the r&r circus?
>
> Who owned these damn guitars!? Keith is seen with
> the es-330 in 69 for example. Is that the same one
> brian played live in 1967 and at these rehearsals?

Thanks men! Although a lot of questions are still not answered, our guessing in this thread made things a bit clearer, I think. And that's enough.

Eek, Brian really doesn't look healthy in late 68...

>> men! <<

hey - i'm a she-sssoul! :E

other than that, though, i'm pretty satisfied with our detective work too -
Stanley and Ethan make a good case for late september/early october 68,
and it even fits that Nico doesn't have it listed, since at that point in the year
it seems like they'd be fairly casual sessions (if you see what i mean).

by the way, Stanley mentions that Brian was wearing red tapestry boots at the rehearsal he was at -
maybe the ones in the shot by Tony? (sorry if those are real famous Brian boots - i'm not that much of a Brian-spotter)

as for the guitars ... you'd better ask Mathijs, HM. i'm just a pupil.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2006-12-03 01:04 by with sssoul.

His Majesty Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Eek, Brian really doesn't look healthy in late
> 68...
>
> [shop.rexfeatures.com]
> g.jpg

My god, he looks like 85 years old... Until now I though he looked terrifying at his trial in September 1968 or on May 21, 1969. But this is... I don't have words.

On the other side: look at other pictures above (from February 9-10/69?; March 6, 1969) and you will be surprised how much his health and look was able to improve within a few weeks!

Very good posts by all of you, nice to read, thanks

Frost On Saturday rehearsals 29 November 1968 - Daily Mirror



ROCKMAN

with sssoul Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> >> men! <<
>
> hey - i'm a she-sssoul! :E
>
> other than that, though, i'm pretty satisfied with
> our detective work too -
> Stanley and Ethan make a good case for late
> september 68, and it even fits that Nico doesn't
> have it listed,
> since it seems like a fairly casual session (if
> you see what i mean).
> by the way, Stanley mentions that Brian was
> wearing red tapestry boots at the rehearsal he was
> at -
> maybe the ones in the shot by Tony? (sorry if
> those are real famous Brian boots - i'm not that
> much of a Brian-spotter)
>
> as for the guitars ... you'd better ask Mathijs,
> HM. i'm just a pupil.

Yeah I think that must be the rehearsal Stanley Booth is talking about. Everything seems to tie in with those pics. The boots lol, the hair, the rings, it's all there!

Daily Mirror



ROCKMAN

Yeah, it's just a matter of combination (and time to put it all together).

Does the Stanley Booth book mention if Mick Jagger was present at the rehearsal?