If nothing comes out tomorrow, I'm getting r e a l l y worried.
Maybe he is down and out for the last time after all.

....Bv; you dont have to reveal your sources -
but dont you think it's time that you tell us what you know?

Harm Wrote:

> Doesn't matter to me anyway. Everything has been
> booked and paid for. Can't cancel anything
> anymore: Barcelona, Brussels,Paris,Amsterdam and
> London


Yeah man that sucks. We should organize a european stones revival tour party. we just party all of europe. each local fan group makes sure there is a nice pub reserverd and much stones music.
what can we do anyway?

Baboon Bro Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If nothing comes out tomorrow, I'm getting really worried. Maybe he is down
> and out for the last time after all.


> ....Bv; you dont have to reveal your sources - but dont you think it's time
> that you tell us what you know?

Yes, I second that. Not asking for an intrusion into your privacy or your sources BV, but if in fact there's stuff you KNOW that by this time the fans really ought to also have a right to know (and they DON'T because of this continuing deafening silence from rs.com) - then perhaps you could share whatever info you have with us ? Anyway, here's hoping that this deafening silence from the Stones org is "finally" broken tomorrow.

I think bv informed us well, when he is speaking about this wake up call and the fact that Keith is not well...

Maybe we do not want to understand what he tells us...

This is so very sad!

>> If nothing comes out tomorrow <<

as far as i can make out, no one connected with Stones Inc has said any announcement would definitely be made tomorrow.
JKF told us the Horsens promoter said may 22nd at the earliest and people left that part out when they passed the news on;
now people are treating the 22nd as some Big Decisive Day, without any reason that i know of.

... i'm deeply worried about Keith too, but isn't there more potential good in generating well-wishes for him,
instead of voicing our worst fears? it's a belief thing, i know. but what else can we do for the man?

Keith, be well - all the way, baby, all the way

I want to remind that I wrote "if" nothing comes out tomorrow etc.
Bv has been encouraging and optimistic thruout this whole process.
Maybe we all grab a little piece of all this in our different and individual pace.

Till we hear anything I could recommend Shidoobee board and all
that has been said about Keef's recovery and many pics at [p081.ezboard.com]

I repeat the flight is the crucial and critical thing here, the flight
to next continent wherever he's going. The logistics within a European
leg - which I by God hope will be takin place - is next problem.

Once again: Wait and see.

Why do folks think that the Stones organisation has a crystal ball?

They do obviously need to say something quite soon with regard to the earlier dates... but [unlike us lot ;^)] they can't talk a load of diametrically opposed bollocks and shrug when they're wrong.
They'll announce something when they KNOW something...not when they SUSPECT it.

KR's long term health is the thing that matters.

[And that's not me trying NOT be selfish...it's me being VERY selfish. I happen to think that much of Keith's best work has been from the last few years and that some of his best is still to come. I want him on top form to complete it ! ]

If the tour should get cancelled I don't understand what they are waiting for? If they know that Keith is not well at all, what are they waiting for? That he gets up in the morning and says "ohh I am ready for the tour"?

This makes no sense at all.

The only thing I can imagine is that they are waiting till Keith says " I will be there in 2, 3 or 4 weeks". Postponed dates will follow.

But if they cancel next week, I will be angry.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2006-05-21 13:14 by mariannerl.

Mariannerl,I think your feelings are very natural..and I think we all share them on some level.
But the events of the last few weeks come under the heading of "shit happens" and nobody is acting or speaking[or not speaking] with any malice...including the Stones organisation.
[Though I would question their timing in trying to sell a guy a T shirt before they can tell him whether his hotel and airline reservations have been a complete waste of money or not. Stuff like that is guaranteed to wind up many otherwise very placid folks ! ]

I don't think the tour be cancelled.

Do you remember L Cohen song,
...So long Marianne, it's time that we began to laugh and cry and cry and laugh about it all again...

Another option exists for the band : touring without Keith.
Maybe only few shows, waiting for Keith complete recovery, maybe all the european tour.
Millions of dollars are on the table and perhaps they have to tour under some obligations of insurance company.

I've heard silly rumours in Italy like Jeff Beck or Jimmy Page to play on the right side of the stage this summer.
I don't bet a penny on this rumours.

But touring without KR is maybe an option for the band.
And this will be very sad.

Thanks Spud and ISAKAPI

sometimes I am angry, sometimes I don't want to hear about all... sometimes I have hopes. Sometimes I think of Keith. But I have to think of me too.

I guess I will not read here anymore till the news are on RS.com.

Massimo68,

Forget it. Will not happen. Never Never.
They only go on stage with Keith.

TE
Oslo

This is an open message to BV, it may get me kicked off the forum, but I am now past caring, and lets face it, it will be no great loss.

So this is our wake up call is it?
I have not posted much wrt Keith being ill, cancellations etc, but I have eagerly awaited news like everyone else.
And also, like everyone else, I want Keith well, at whatever cost.
But please note, before we start, that this post is not about the health of Keith.

What I am going to say is this, I so feel for the fans, who like myself have hard-earned cash invested in gigs/travelling.
It's a disgrace that no announcement has been issued wrt to cancelled dates.
Even the 22nd is far too late if we do hear anything then.

What has really, really bugged me through all this has been your defensive tone to all issues
regarding the hopeless administration of the tour - administration which shows plain contempt for the hardcore fan.

In making statements such as the 'wake up call' I think that you make it clear that you have very little in common with the regular Stones fan
who has to make some sacrifice to see a couple of shows each tour.

Why can you not accept people speculating over start dates!
These are people who are not mobile in their work situation and can just follow the tour as and when!!
These are people for whom the shows are a major event, and a major financial commitment. People who have reorganised their limited work vacation time!!!

So BV this is a wake up call for you, great as though your site is, I think you are out of touch.
You just don't want to hear the fans concerns with the big issues that are worrying them.
The responses you are posting could almost be from the official voice of RS.COM.

Why are you swimming against the tide of hardcore fan opinion?
I think you may just be protecting your own interests, as you appear to have little interest in the concerns and situation of the regular fan.

'Wake up call' was heavy handed and offensive, not the message, but the delivery - there are emotional and practical issues for most fans. Think about it.


Oily.

Very well said Oily. And no, it won't get you booted off IORR. I lambasted BV over his attitude regarding a flurry of activity on the board a while ago when there were almost daily announcements about from all quarters of the press about Wembley not being ready on time to host various events (Stones included), and concurrently there was no official announcement about what was being done about it, what the consequences were for tickets/seats etc etc. And throughout all that, BV's contribution was merely to say that he would close further threads on the subject of Wembley if he saw any more of them, seemingly oblivious to the point that you have raised, namely that this board caters to a lot of people for whom:

> shows are a major event, and a major financial commitment. People who have reorganised their limited work vacation time!!!

He might not thank you for your post, but he's big enough to take some flak from time to time (I think and I hope), so we shouldn't have seen or heard the last of you just yet ole son !



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2006-05-21 14:54 by paulywaul.

My main point is (and has always been) that RS.COM have to give themselves a deadline (May 22nd would be good - 5 days before the Barcelona show was suppose to be the start of the European tour). All they have to do is tell us were things stand at this moment. If Keith is too ill to tour so be it. If they think the tour has to be postponed for a month tell us. Sooner or later it WILL come out so for the sake of fans who are on tight holiday schedules and budgets I believe it's the right thing to do.

I slapped on the GIMME SHELTER DVD last night and cranked it up nice and loud to remind me of the period that the Stones were nothing but pure rock and roll. Everything was so simple in those days. Simple stages, Simple equipment set ups, Simple stage outfits, staying in 3 star hotels, etc etc. "The Machine" has gotten so big now that you have layers of lawyers telling everybody to zip the lips to protect this and that. It's just gotten too big, too expensive, too many lawyers, too much spin, too many opinions based on the wrong reasons.... Sure, the song GIMME SHELTER sounds better now with Jagger's singing lessons and Lisa's great vocals but listen to the "Ya-Ya's" album and tell me that's not the geniune article, when everything is clicking, when it's ALL about the music and not all the other sh*t. They need to get back to that - what's happening lately reminds me of a political campaign - Apologizing to the audience that they're gonna play SWAY (I don't remember Jagger apologizing to the audience in 1969 when they played "You Got to Move" 2 years before it finally came out on STICKY FINGERS in 1971),...it's time to get back to just being REAL- being about the music and the fans, let all the other chips fall where they may....We can deal with it, just cut the spin, cut the deafening silence, and tell us what's really happening with Keith and the tour....

I think, next week we know the new tour start date. Don´t worry.

Street fighting man

Erhard

I can't why you blame BV for not knowing about Keith.
My guess is that RScom, the promoters, M. Cohl and everybody have asked Keith about when the tour will start.
And Keith don't give an answer, because he don't know himself...even the doctors don't know. Of course, nobody, no-matter how much money is one stake, can push Keith into giving an answer, when he can't give one.
We will all have to wait and see what happens. Even Stones themselves will have to wait.
Keith health comes before every arrangement with Stones....he is mr. Stone himself.

People have laid out a LOT of cash and time planning their trips around a number of shows. If this tour does go ahead as planned (with some postponements) maybe the Stones should do something special for the fans that have lost hundreds or thousands of Dollars or Euros. Maybe even a special club/theater show in a few key cities (or let them sit in on pre show rehearsals in certain cities) that would make sense, I don't know exactly what the answer is but some fans are getting really screwed...

This loud, big alarming silence is scaring the shit out of me. Yes, it's time, the Rolling Stones Organization has to come up with some news. Let us have the possibility to plan our vacations, ask our employers for a few weeks off and prepare our families thes "mummy's not gonne be home for two months"... Seriously - everyone must realise that there are cancellations to be done of airline tickets, hotel bookings and so on. Just cancelled Barcelona and Madrid and saved big bucks...
Dear Rolling Stones Organisation - dear bearded Canadian: Which other shows shall I cancel? This is money that matter to us ordinary people - but give us a chance - and we'll be at the shows - when they happen.
But most of all - I want to see Keith WELL!

It is unfair to criticize BV.

First, because his policy is to post information he trusts 100% - From this point of view, even he is not a journalist by trade, he respects a strict guideline that could be an exemple for many profesionnal media. I admire him for that. Since I log on this website, ie 1998, I have NEVER seen any false information given by BV. For exemple, if something was buzzing but finally did not happen, you would find that BV had only and cautiously wrote in the days before the thing was only"rumored".

Second, because BV is not a fortune teller. He does not guess the future. I fully understand frustration many of us endure because of the tree-incident, but it is a fact you have to face : there is incertitude. It works for Keith as well as every human being. If you have an accident, the best doctors in the world can say : wait and see. So please be patient, there is no use to feud. I had myself planned a trip to Barcelona, I am still going, but will not see the Stones. You see ? Everyboydy has invested money in the tour, but you cannot criticize anyone because of this accident.

Third, if BV has inside information that he cannot give, then he has to respect the wish of his source. We know BV post a lot of worthy information from trustable-but-anonymous source. If this source tells him : "you can say that, but not this", you have to respect the game. From this other aspect, BV respects also media ethics.

Fourth, BV has adopted a technical guideline which is to avoid to multiplicate similar threads. I know it can be frustrating for users, as it is a bit the opposite of media style : when you have something new - or when you suppose you have - you write at once a new headline. But this website has not the adequate format - the one you would find on Yahoo ! or on a daily paper - to multiplicate this kind of "breaking news" posts. Besides, those later sites cope nevertheless with the central authority of the editior in chief. No journalist is allowed to make his or her own "breaking news" without referring to this editor.

Damn!!!

It's about attitude, respect and understanding.

YES???? NO?????

Oily.

I give up.

Oily.

OILY_DIPSTICK Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I give up.
>
> Oily.

I'm with ya, I give up too in this respect. It would seem that there ain't a lot of it about ............ attitude, respect and understanding that is to say !!

I truly believe BV's remark of "This is your wake up call. Keith is still in New
Zeland and he is not well" was merely a reminder to everyone on this board that Keith is still recuperting from the surgery.

He did recant the previous erronious report that Keith was flying back to his residence in Connecticut.

As for the European leg of the tour, no plans can be etched in stone until Keith has clearance from his doctors in New Zeland.

In my opinion once a concrete prognosis is made, then and only then will an announcement be made regarding the resumption of the tour.

I wonder how many more complaints will be raised if as was previously posted by MicksBrain they do resume and cut the setlist to 15 songs and only do a 90 minute show? Personally, I don't see that happening.

Sam Spade Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I truly believe BV's remark of "This is your wake up call. Keith is still in
> New Zealand and he is not well" was merely a reminder to everyone on this
> board that Keith is still recuperating from the surgery.

I think you may well be right. I certainly hope so. If that is indeed the case, it would be an unfortunate choice of words, and not the best of attitudes on show given the method of delivering the message, and Oily Dipstick would have a very good and valid point.

I see your points paulywaul and Oily Dipstick, and I understand your frustration, as I (and everyone else) am frustrated myself.

I am 19 year old boy, and this is my first year after high school. This spring I have worked 7 days every week to earn enough money to realize a dream: follow The Stones on tour. I have 6 tickets for european concerts, and have ordered travel/accomodation as well. I know many other fans are in the same situation, and of course all fans want Keith to get well. We don't care about the tour as long as Keith get well, but I think the fans deserve to get information about the tour. I have tickets for uncertain shows like Bergen and Brno, and need some offical information so I can reconsider my schedule.

Of course we are all frustrated. Because of Keith. Because of our own situation. Because of the on-going uncertainty. I guess that bv is just as frustrated. I'm sure he would love to present us with some relevant news. Other than the fact that Keith is still in Auckland and not feeling well. That is however very relevant news. No matter what. And most likely very thrustworthy in opposition to many other rumours.
You may not agree with bv in all matters of life or even regarding the Rolling Stones. You may not like his way of arguing and his choice of words. But to claim that he doesn't care is simply unfair. I have never met bv, but I personally feel he's very much responsible for a lot of extremely valid information throughout the years without which I wouldn't have had access to very valueable Stones-shows. He's not alone in handing out valueable info, but he has really helped in many crucial ways.
Apparently the need to blame someone is growing. Understandable I suppose. But I suppose you can only "blame" the Stones-organisation. But then again don't think it's easy for them as well. Tens of thousands of volunteers, thousands of employees, scores of contracts etc are to reallocated/re-written etc.
Please don't get me wrong : I am also becoming a "victim" of this uncertainty. I'm also losing money. And it's very unlikely that I'll be able to reschedule my six shows. But my first reaction is not ( yet ) "who can I blame for this" ?

I don't blame anyone but the Stones administration. Even if they don't know anything, tell us and we'll understand. But as long as the only information from rollingstones.com is "Keith Richards Continues To Improve" and "Keith Richards Discharged From Hospital", I think it's a bit unprofessional when here's only 1 week to the planned tour start. But hopefully they announce some news tomorrow.

I agree 100% with no nervous.

This is no one's fault. These guys are in their sixties, what does anyone expect. All we can do is wait and see........

(In my opinion).


PS I think BV does a fantastic job.........