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Rocky Dijon

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GasLightStreet
And the Tell The Truth song got left off.

"Tell the Truth" is an early version of "Mess It Up" and yes, it sounds like they really, really, really, really, really, really lost something. Incidentally Don Was brought in Andy Watt to work on that song with Mick a few years before Macca's dinner with Ronnie.

Don't forget "Driving Me Too Hard" is on Ronnie's setlist from the December 2015 British Grove sessions so that one was around a good long while. "Live by the Sword" was from the "Living in a Ghost Town" sessions in 2019. "Tell Me Straight" sounds suspiciously like it was developed from "Right, Off You Go" from the UNDERCOVER sessions.

Yeah, a cut from the infamous 'hit the wall' sessions... If nothing else, at least a source for an IORR folklore...

But it was such a long time ago that the composer Keith had forgotten the whole bloody thing until Mick and Andrew brought it back... That's at least what Mick has claimed. Anyway, it was the last cut they cut for HACKNEY DIAMONDS.

- Doxa



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2024-02-28 14:10 by Doxa.

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Rocky Dijon

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GasLightStreet
And the Tell The Truth song got left off.

"Tell the Truth" is an early version of "Mess It Up" and yes, it sounds like they really, really, really, really, really, really lost something. Incidentally Don Was brought in Andy Watt to work on that song with Mick a few years before Macca's dinner with Ronnie.

Don't forget "Driving Me Too Hard" is on Ronnie's setlist from the December 2015 British Grove sessions so that one was around a good long while. "Live by the Sword" was from the "Living in a Ghost Town" sessions in 2019. "Tell Me Straight" sounds suspiciously like it was developed from "Right, Off You Go" from the UNDERCOVER sessions.

Wot?

Haven't heard Right, Off You Go.

Actually all these songs are all new. They were all written this year, last year, over a short base of time when we recorded. They're all new and none of 'em are from previous sessions. This is like 10 tracks that were chosen out of 15 that we actually finished.

- Mick Jagger, 1984

[timeisonourside.com]

Yet everyone, maybe, knows that 1975's Cellophane Trousers became Too Tough.

Of course, later on. But...

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Doxa
Had we not being familiar with the original out-takes, it could have been probably easier to appreciate the results. You know, listening the tunes as they are, not comparing them to anything. It was easier to like, say, "Plundered My Soul" or "Scarlet", since there was nothing to compare there.

The knowledge causes pain sometimes...

Possibly expressed by what you said in regard to some of the SOME GIRLS deluxe tracks: the bootlegs revealed some fantastic leftovers and only a few got released, and of those few... Spare Parts and Care turned out the best, to me, with the deluxe, and, fortunately, the boots are still there to listen to.

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Doxa
But anyway, I think the moral of that point can be generalized to apply to new studio material as well. We know how they once sounded like - listening our old records - and that could be used as a point of reference: I know how they supposed to sound like, and they do not manage to do that any longer. I think I have had that problem with some of their past albums. The concept 'Stones-by-numbers' derives from that. Them like mimicking themselves. Too many times I have 'oh, this sounds like that, but its like its poor relative, not the real thing'. That's been probably my main issue with an album like VOODOO LOUNGE - why should I listen to it as I can listen to EXILE ON MAIN STREET or STICKY FINGERS? it could be, have I had not known those albums, I might like VOODOO LOUNGE more.

VOODOO continues to not age well. I loved it when it came out. The Stones' first release post-Wyman.

OK.

It was a big deal. They hype was incredible. New record label... a tour for a new LP.

But... We had a big bonfire going one night out in Ronnie's garden. I was throwing all these logs on it, and these sparks started flying, and suddenly I started running back to the studio, I've got one! Incoming!

[timeisonourside.com]

Really.

Yet no anything enough about the lyrics?

Very weird.

So they arrive as they do - Jiving Sister Fanny is better. Musically Sparks Will Fly was new Stones-by-numbers but Keith loved it so... Too Tight is much better but is still numbers... so there's your mimicking themselves.

At least they branched out, even though sounding like The Stones, with Out Of Tears, Anybody Seen My Baby, Love Is Strong, Saint Of Me, while not sounding like the Stones.

Listen to One Hit and then Hold Back from 1986 and it's WTF - one sounds like The Stones (imitating themselves), the other sounds like (no idea but it's not The Stones). They let that be more fluid with VOODOO and BRIDGES.

HACKNEY?

The beauty of such a catalog is it's easy to get lost in The Big 4, or 5, or SG-U... aside from pre-1968... but HD sounds like a band truly focused on now.

Which is why The Big 4 resonates so well. I won't say GHS-BAB are calculated - they did some far out material on those three albums, and, oddly enough, BLACK AND BLUE has more connection to HD than any other Stones album simply in the regard to doing something different.

They didn't rip anyone off with HD like they did with BAB.

As far as I know, anyway.

HD is excellent. It's ageing extremely well already.

I get the "Stones by numbers" criticism aimed at many modern era songs...

... I've used the term myself on not a few occasions...

...but since when does playing in your own distinctive style become "mimicking ?


That "five strings, three fingers and one @#$%&" is a bit like the Blues.

It's amazing how many different little twists and how much variety can be wrought from it.

Live sounds good, I don't really care if it's been touched up, but it's great.

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GasLightStreet

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Rocky Dijon

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GasLightStreet
And the Tell The Truth song got left off.

"Tell the Truth" is an early version of "Mess It Up" and yes, it sounds like they really, really, really, really, really, really lost something. Incidentally Don Was brought in Andy Watt to work on that song with Mick a few years before Macca's dinner with Ronnie.

Don't forget "Driving Me Too Hard" is on Ronnie's setlist from the December 2015 British Grove sessions so that one was around a good long while. "Live by the Sword" was from the "Living in a Ghost Town" sessions in 2019. "Tell Me Straight" sounds suspiciously like it was developed from "Right, Off You Go" from the UNDERCOVER sessions.

Wot?

Haven't heard Right, Off You Go.

Actually all these songs are all new. They were all written this year, last year, over a short base of time when we recorded. They're all new and none of 'em are from previous sessions. This is like 10 tracks that were chosen out of 15 that we actually finished.

- Mick Jagger, 1984

[timeisonourside.com]

Yet everyone, maybe, knows that 1975's Cellophane Trousers became Too Tough.

Of course, later on. But...

It's a Jim Barber track : [jimbarber.bandcamp.com]

...that sounds a lot like the riff Keith had been playing around with since the GHS sessions, called (by the bootleggers at least) "Brown Leaves", "Golden Caddy", etc...

--------------
IORR Links : Essential Studio Outtakes CDs : Audio - History of Rarest Outtakes : Audio

It's telling that we got 83 pages of conversation on this Stones album whereas Crosseyed Heart got over 200 pages of mostly positive conversation from a solo Stone.
Says it all really.

Agree 100%

Keith's CH and Ronnie's FLP, are the best RS related releases from last decades. At least for me

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gotdablouse

It's a Jim Barber track : [jimbarber.bandcamp.com]

...that sounds a lot like the riff Keith had been playing around with since the GHS sessions, called (by the bootleggers at least) "Brown Leaves", "Golden Caddy", etc...

It's a Jim Barber track from the UNDERCOVER sessions that features Charlie and Stu and Chris Kimsey. I agree it sounds like one of those songs Keith held onto forever like "Still in Love" (the version for UNDERCOVER with Chuck on piano is similar) or, in more recent decades, "Only Found Out Yesterday."

The first seconds of B side i think is the same intro riff of "I love you too much" from some girls cd2, then they start Mess it up.

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keefriffhards
It's telling that we got 83 pages of conversation on this Stones album whereas Crosseyed Heart got over 200 pages of mostly positive conversation from a solo Stone.
Says it all really.

Simply shows that true greatness does not need many words and endless "try to talk you into it"-rants!

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retired_dog

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keefriffhards
It's telling that we got 83 pages of conversation on this Stones album whereas Crosseyed Heart got over 200 pages of mostly positive conversation from a solo Stone.
Says it all really.

Simply shows that true greatness does not need many words and endless "try to talk you into it"-rants!

I saw what you did there

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KeithNacho
Keith's CH and Ronnie's FLP, are the best RS related releases from last decades. At least for me

100% agreed.

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keefriffhards
It's telling that we got 83 pages of conversation on this Stones album whereas Crosseyed Heart got over 200 pages of mostly positive conversation from a solo Stone.
Says it all really.

might it also indicate that a good chunk of the hardcore fan base has died off in the nearly decade long gap between the two albums?

although i will admit to liking crosseyed heart slightly more then hackney diamonds

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ProfessorWolf

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keefriffhards
It's telling that we got 83 pages of conversation on this Stones album whereas Crosseyed Heart got over 200 pages of mostly positive conversation from a solo Stone.
Says it all really.

might it also indicate that a good chunk of the hardcore fan base has died off in the nearly decade long gap between the two albums?

although i will admit to liking crosseyed heart slightly more then hackney diamonds

Well, some of us have left for sure, for natural reasons, but also that horrible CROSSEYED HEART thread contributed for that. There was a lynch mentality there against any critical word. The Richards macho fan crowd had their fiesta there. Like some bloody holy mess a bunch of True Believers preaching each other the same Gospel. The same points again and and again and again and again.

By contrast, this thread has been more civil. It actually contains great discussion involving differing opinions and point of views. Quality over quantity.

- Doxa



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 2024-03-04 22:26 by Doxa.

Crosseyed heart (probably) did not have a spin off track talk page for every song. We got a number one album of relaxed fresh stuff that grows. Enjoy.

Apples and oranges really.

With Keith on his own, you know pretty much what you're going to get.
Some folks are going to love it almost by genetics whilst others never really will.

With the Stones, you might get anything and everything...so there's much more scope for a genuinely interesting discussion.

Talk Is Cheap was great. Main Offender was uneven but had a few great songs (999,Wicked As It Seems,Hate It When You Leave). Crosseyed Heart was OK but uneven and does not contain any truly great songs. HD on the other hand is great from start to finish.

Love ‘em both. Next…

Rod

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Doxa

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ProfessorWolf

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keefriffhards
It's telling that we got 83 pages of conversation on this Stones album whereas Crosseyed Heart got over 200 pages of mostly positive conversation from a solo Stone.
Says it all really.

might it also indicate that a good chunk of the hardcore fan base has died off in the nearly decade long gap between the two albums?

although i will admit to liking crosseyed heart slightly more then hackney diamonds

Well, some of us have left for sure, for natural reasons, but also that horrible CROSSEYED HEART thread contributed for that. There was a lynch mentality there against any critical word. The Richards macho fan crowd had their fiesta there. Like some bloody holy mess a bunch of True Believers preaching each other the same Gospel. The same points again and and again and again and again.

By contrast, this thread has been more civil. It actually contains great discussion involving differing opinions and point of views. Quality over quantity.

- Doxa

Which ironically speaks to the material on the respective albums as well.

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bitusa2012
Love ‘em both. Next…

Yep, that as well .

I do love both. Back in 2015, I reviewed Cross Eyed Heart and thought it was among the best of new releases from the Stones world in a long time (the vaults were already putting out gems from the archives). Blue and Lonesome I also liked a lot, and Little Rain will always be a top 10 Stones fave for me - but then comes Hackney Diamonds and it's a step change in focus, quality, cohesiveness and the band coming together around the radiating core of Mick n Keef that was out of commission for too long.It's just on a different level. If I put it on, after a week or two of not playing it, I still get goosebumps from HD. Sometimes I could weep, it's so good, so unexpected, so against the universal laws of decline and thermodynamics. And then we get the VU cover from Keith, what a friend of mine calls 'the best single stones track since Exile' ("What a beautiful closing chapter" he says in general) and Mick's brill theme tune for Slow Horses.
Crazy days.... Glad to be alive

I do love both. Back in 2015, I reviewed Cross Eyed Heart and thought it was among the best of new releases from the Stones world in a long time (the vaults were already putting out gems from the archives). Blue and Lonesome I also liked a lot, and Little Rain will always be a top 10 Stones fave for me - but then comes Hackney Diamonds and it's a step change in focus, quality, cohesiveness and the band coming together around the radiating core of Mick n Keef that was out of commission for too long.It's just on a different level. If I put it on, after a week or two of not playing it, I still get goosebumps from HD. Sometimes I could weep, it's so good, so unexpected, so against the universal laws of decline and thermodynamics. And then we get the VU cover from Keith, what a friend of mine calls 'the best single stones track since Exile' ("What a beautiful closing chapter" he says in general) and Mick's brill theme tune for Slow Horses.
Crazy days.... Glad to be alive

I do too. Both.

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MadMetaphoricalMax
I do love both. Back in 2015, I reviewed Cross Eyed Heart and thought it was among the best of new releases from the Stones world in a long time (the vaults were already putting out gems from the archives). Blue and Lonesome I also liked a lot, and Little Rain will always be a top 10 Stones fave for me - but then comes Hackney Diamonds and it's a step change in focus, quality, cohesiveness and the band coming together around the radiating core of Mick n Keef that was out of commission for too long.It's just on a different level. If I put it on, after a week or two of not playing it, I still get goosebumps from HD. Sometimes I could weep, it's so good, so unexpected, so against the universal laws of decline and thermodynamics. And then we get the VU cover from Keith, what a friend of mine calls 'the best single stones track since Exile' ("What a beautiful closing chapter" he says in general) and Mick's brill theme tune for Slow Horses.
Crazy days.... Glad to be alive

Glad to be alive indeed. And for some time now. I think for the last fifteen years or so we've been treated with pretty good stuff by them. The vaults stuff alone has been a treat (remember the times when that was just a crazy fanboy dream...). Then the blues album, Keith's album, Mick's solo songs, the Corona song, and, of course, now the new album... By comparison, for me the long years before, say, 2010 were not that exciting, if I think them in retrospect. I guess the last Stones-related new release I was truely impressed by was Jagger's WANDERING SPIRIT. Then started pretty quiet Stones fandom years for me (pl. concerts). Some okayish releases, for sure, but nothing really that impressive.

- Doxa



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2024-03-05 22:24 by Doxa.

...from #37 up to #33 in the German Top 100 this week.
20 weeks in the Top 40!
Hackney Diamonds.

....thanks, FoolToCry!....kind of a shame that the USA give minimal exposure to the classic groups.

......I remember a record industry friend of mine (RIP>>GEORGE), told me back in 1973 that singers like Roy Orbison, The Everly Brothers,Duane Eddy, and so on were still or routinely on the British charts. I checked, and he was correct. It takes a movie soundtrack to do that in the USA.

When I think back over the all the comments from the band over the years since ABB that "they were in the studio", "working on new tracks", and then we learn that the knocked out HD very quickly - what happened to all of those tracks they were allegedly working on?

Well, Father Ted. Those tracks...may soon see the light of day...