Quote
Spud

Quote
GasLightStreet

Quote
bakersfield
Absolutely agree.
Great songs. Great energy.
I’m fascinated to see where the next album takes them.

My only caveat is, I’d prefer it not to be so ‘brickwalled’ - but that’s a minor complaint

Unfortunately that's the way it's been for quite some time. It takes someone in the - it seems like they'd've heard from someone already about how bad their releases have been mastered post-BRIDGES.

Keith is so about vinyl... Mick is so about technology: somewhere they found a great chasm of difference, which, pre-1986, they gave a damn about the quality of their releases.

Mick doesn't have the time? He's got as much time as anyone on the planet. If he doesn't want to be bothered at least allow someone to have some QUAULITY control instead of letting some buffoon just make everything as loud as possible because "that's what the label wants" - screw the label, THEY DON'T CARE.

I found the vinyl sound of HD to be a pleasant surprise in the context of what we've become accustomed to...but GasLight's comments remain very pertinent.

Actually, I haven't heard a new vinyl release (since the comeback of the medium) sound this low and dynamic - so they really tried to make it good.

Well, they couldn't cut it too loud because its quite a long run time for a single LP...so it could in part be a happy accident.

[...but I'd like to think otherwise. ]

Quote
Spud
Well, they couldn't cut it too loud because its quite a long run time for a single LP...so it could in part be a happy accident.

[...but I'd like to think otherwise. ]

Good point, it's 48 minutes.

It's a remarkable difference compared with the cd anyway

Interesting, I don't have a vinyl copy, I guess I need to get one.

Quote
DandelionPowderman

Quote
Spud
Well, they couldn't cut it too loud because its quite a long run time for a single LP...so it could in part be a happy accident.

[...but I'd like to think otherwise. ]

Good point, it's 48 minutes.

It's a remarkable difference compared with the cd anyway

Agreed .

That's interesting. My Sony Arc plays the Atmos version via Apple (I think that's right anyway) and that's much easier to listen to than the CD. I might have to buy the vinyl after all.

Quote
bakersfield

That's interesting.

Already posted here a while ago - [MagicVinylDigital.net] - Hackney Diamonds comparison: good sounding Vinyl & Dolby Atmos vs. brickwalled CD & HiRes.

Have to admit I thought they'd make it a 3 side LP (Exile is only 19 minutes longer than HD) and charge more. Glad they didn't!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2024-02-15 19:02 by NashvilleBlues.

I haven`t seen this complaint raised before, but if you buy the CD, you get a lot of pictures and stuff, but if you buy the vinyl, you just get a budget solution. It shouldn`t be a gatefold. When I opened it I felt cheated.

I have now given the album a rest for some time. But each time I happen give it a random listening, or some track of it suddenly appears, I hear the diamond there. The spell doesn't disappear, and it is like a good old friend now, the one I trust and never lets me down. It's there with some other great albums to pick up if one feels like hearing something great for sure.

I like every tune in it - and there is no boring moment in the album - but I have found out that there are four that are absolutely killers and ones I can without a shame play next to their classic tunes. Those are:

"Angry". Oh shit, so bloody generic Stones tune as it ever can be, but there is something just so irresistible in it. A track that cannot be over-played - no, it just gets better. Every bloody time.

"Mess It Up". The best dance tune since "Miss You". Totally hooked. The chorus in its easiness is such an ear candy. Like any album tune it is totally old-fashionable, belonging to the genres dead and gone for ages now, but had it released, say, as a leading single of EMOTIONAL RESCUE instead the title track - that was quite a big hit at the time and an awesome tune in itself - this had a been a smash hit.

"Depending On You". One of their best ballads ever. Oh man, the dudes can really do that still. All of their other ballads for ages have been more or less half-arsed attempts, showing some promise, but never quite nailing it. But this does. Perfect. Like Mick and Keith discovering the good old melodic pop writer ability of theirs from the 60's. And Mick finally re-discovering how to deliver a ballad convincingly.

"Whole Wide World". Even more than "Sweet Sounds of Heaven" (a wonderful tune that for some reason didn't quite made my list) this is a fresh air in the album, the Stones doing something novel (for them), and succeeding 100%, them sounding natural. So natural that they don't even sound like doing anything novel (when was the last time?). Simple but genius rocker: the song structure, the riff, Mick's cockney... And damn that chorus is catchy... it makes the song fly!

- Doxa



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2024-02-16 01:11 by Doxa.

Good choices, Doxa. Driving Me Too Hard and Tell Me Straight are two more I just can't skip.

It's perhaps a bit monotonous, but I love Dreamy Skies as well.

An update from some key markets after 16 weeks:

Worldwide: 19,000 last week / 1,206,000 total so far aprox. (Mediatraffic)


Germany
1-2-3-3-6-2-4-1-1-6-3-6-9-11-15-20
(16 wks) (Platinum - 175,000 units)

UK
1-3-4-8-4-3-5-6-1-6-25-62-107-139-186
(15 wks) (Gold - 174,000 units)

France
1-2-2-4-7-5-11-8-5-7-16-40-67-97-109-123
(16 wks) (Platinum - 115,000 units)

Austria
1-2-1-2-2-2-2-2-1-1-1-2-4-6-10-10
(16 wks) (Platinum - 20,000 units)

Swiss
1-2-2-2-4-2-5-5-3-5-4-13-14-21-34-43
(16 wks) (Gold - 10,000)

Netherlands
1-2-2-1-3-4-2-4-1-6-2-8-22-34-54-98
(16 wks) (Gold - 25,000 units)

Belgium
1-2-3-5-7-6-7-7-4-6-8-24-47-59-75-76
(16 wks)

Sweden
1-4-8-17-32-38-43-24-33
(9 wks)

Australia
1-2-7-27-41-22-53-45-27-30-61-95
(12 wks)

Spain
2-6-14-19-20-22-31-37-17-32-32-65-91
(13 wks)

Italy
2-8-16-29-37-52-44-32-23-47-73
(11 wks) (Gold - 25,000)

USA
3-13-33-83-147-124-136-115-117
(9 wks) (248,000 units)

Japan
5-7-10-18-34-44-47-x-24
(8 wks) (65,000 units)

Quote
Spud
Well, they couldn't cut it too loud because its quite a long run time for a single LP...so it could in part be a happy accident.

[...but I'd like to think otherwise. ]

Vinyl can't be brickwalled!

Quote
Irix

Quote
bakersfield

That's interesting.

Already posted here a while ago - [MagicVinylDigital.net] - Hackney Diamonds comparison: good sounding Vinyl & Dolby Atmos vs. brickwalled CD & HiRes.

The Rolling Stones should be EMBARRASSED by this. And in regard to their entire 1971-1997 (back) catalog thanks to StePHen Marcussen.

Bob Ludwig RULES.

Quote
Doxa
I have now given the album a rest for some time. But each time I happen give it a random listening, or some track of it suddenly appears, I hear the diamond there. The spell doesn't disappear, and it is like a good old friend now, the one I trust and never lets me down. It's there with some other great albums to pick up if one feels like hearing something great for sure.

I like every tune in it - and there is no boring moment in the album - but I have found out that there are four that are absolutely killers and ones I can without a shame play next to their classic tunes. Those are:

"Angry". Oh shit, so bloody generic Stones tune as it ever can be, but there is something just so irresistible in it. A track that cannot be over-played - no, it just gets better. Every bloody time.

"Mess It Up". The best dance tune since "Miss You". Totally hooked. The chorus in its easiness is such an ear candy. Like any album tune it is totally old-fashionable, belonging to the genres dead and gone for ages now, but had it released, say, as a leading single of EMOTIONAL RESCUE instead the title track - that was quite a big hit at the time and an awesome tune in itself - this had a been a smash hit.

"Depending On You". One of their best ballads ever. Oh man, the dudes can really do that still. All of their other ballads for ages have been more or less half-arsed attempts, showing some promise, but never quite nailing it. But this does. Perfect. Like Mick and Keith discovering the good old melodic pop writer ability of theirs from the 60's. And Mick finally re-discovering how to deliver a ballad convincingly.

"Whole Wide World". Even more than "Sweet Sounds of Heaven" (a wonderful tune that for some reason didn't quite made my list) this is a fresh air in the album, the Stones doing something novel (for them), and succeeding 100%, them sounding natural. So natural that they don't even sound like doing anything novel (when was the last time?). Simple but genius rocker: the song structure, the riff, Mick's cockney... And damn that chorus is catchy... it makes the song fly!

- Doxa

HACKENY DIAMONDS gives a finger to modern produced albums in the sense of 'this is how a band records a record'.

Angry is the new Start Me Up. And is more kicking and tuneful. It should be the first track on all hits comps in the future.

Get Close is a reminder of BLACK AND BLUE Stones meeting A BIGGER BANG intensity only... really damn good. For those that still think Streets Of Love is still a good song, well, your loss.

Depending On You, like Driving Me Too Hard, is excellent. With exception to Laugh, I Nearly Died, they're the best ballads they've done in decades.

Tell Me Straight basically tucks the album into bed. Keith's best since (pick any one of three) BRIDGES, and prior? Little T&A. In regard to the ballad aspect, well, Keith's part in Memory Motel aside, his best since Coming Down Again.

He took Thru And Thru and combined it with Robbed Blind. It is possibly the sweetest moment in Stones recording in eons.

Quote
GasLightStreet

Quote
Spud
Well, they couldn't cut it too loud because its quite a long run time for a single LP...so it could in part be a happy accident.

[...but I'd like to think otherwise. ]

Vinyl can't be brickwalled!

No, but it can be mastered from a source that's already compressed to hell so that any natural dynamics cannot be recovered.

The big irony is that all but the crudest Digital formats are capable of delivering a much wider dynamic range than any of our crude old analogue formats...but too often the digital release is the one compressed the most!

[..and that's simply to cater for the lowest common denominator of folks listening via mobile devices and "smart speakers".]

Quote
GasLightStreet

Quote
Irix

Quote
bakersfield

That's interesting.

Already posted here a while ago - [MagicVinylDigital.net] - Hackney Diamonds comparison: good sounding Vinyl & Dolby Atmos vs. brickwalled CD & HiRes.

The Rolling Stones should be EMBARRASSED by this. And in regard to their entire 1971-1997 (back) catalog thanks to StePHen Marcussen.

Bob Ludwig RULES.

It's 2024 and music does get compressed and brickwalled nowadays. It's part of the sound of the streaming age. Get over it.

Getting over it doesn't mean we have to like it...

...and we always feel better for a good moan

Quote
StonedRambler

It's 2024 and music does get compressed and brickwalled nowadays.

No, that's not generally true. For instance, Giles Martin or Steven Wilson do not brickwalled masterings.

Quote
Irix

Quote
StonedRambler

It's 2024 and music does get compressed and brickwalled nowadays.

No, that's not generally true. For instance, Giles Martin or Steven Wilson do not brickwalled masterings.

True, but they (Giles Martin etc.) do not aim for a contemporary sound. Mick Jagger's wish for Hackney Diamonds was that it sounds like an album made in 2023. Therefore Serban Ghenea (He mixes all the pop artists nowadays - Taylor Swift, The Weeknd, Olivia Rodrigo, Post Malone, Dua Lipa, Justin Bieber and many many more) was engaged for mixing it. And brickwall limiting is part of that contemporary sound - if you like that or not. It certainly fits to the sound aesthetic of the album.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2024-02-16 13:53 by StonedRambler.

Peter Gabriel's new i/o album has just a dynamic range of DR5-9 (from possible DR15). It was mastered by Matt Colton - he also did the loud DR5-7 mastering for 'Hackney Diamonds' (CD, Digital & HiRes).

But 'Hackney Diamonds' mixing/mastering for Dolby Atmos was done by Giles Martin.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2024-02-16 15:30 by Irix.

I guess complaining - rightly IMO - about the brickwall is as useless as is it wish for the Stones setlists consisting of obscure tunes instead of war horses, and probably them playing at your local pub instead of stadiums hundreds miles away. They are not an avantgarde, but a commercial act following the mainstream in business and that's how they click. That's why they still are here.

I guess in 60 years we would have noticed that, right?

But I guess that is the dilemma of being a hardcore fan of this group. We see their greatness in some obscure non-released half-cooked out-take, something we might love released as it is, without any hint of contemporary flavor of month ideas as far as production or technology go, but their aim is always reaching as big audience as possible, trying to charm those bloody casual fans who do know nothing...

But, of course, we can always take a memory line and pick up our old vinyl version of, say, STICKY FINGERS, and recall the times when that was the big, commercial contemporary sound everybody liked.

- Doxa

Quote
Doxa

complaining - rightly IMO - about the brickwall is as useless

It isn't. Listen to 'Hackney Diamonds' on CD, Digital or HiRes. Then listen again from Vinyl or Dolby Atmos. The latter are far better, sound-wise.

Quote
Irix
Peter Gabriel's new i/o album has just a dynamic range of DR5-9. It was mastered by Matt Colton - he also did the loud DR5-7 mastering for 'Hackney Diamonds' (CD, Digital & HiRes).

But 'Hackney Diamonds' mixing/mastering for Dolby Atmos was done by Giles Martin.

Yeah but it also doesn't really sound like a modern album from 2023. Could have as well been recorded in the 90s.

Hackney Diamonds is just supposed to sound like a modern production. Autotune, saturation and brickwall limiting is part of it. If I am not in the mood for that I am going to listen to my virgin CD of Exile.

Quote
Irix

Quote
Doxa

complaining - rightly IMO - about the brickwall is as useless

It isn't. Listen to 'Hackney Diamonds' on CD, Digital or HiRes. Then listen again from Vinyl or Dolby Atmos. The latter are far better, sound-wise.

Yeah but those special formats do not really play a role in the general public. I bet Mick didn't even listen to those. The format that 90% of the listeners are going to listen to is the Stereo Master that is the source for all the CDs and streaming services.

Quote
StonedRambler


Yeah but those special formats do not really play a role in the general public.

Vinyl is a special format and doesn't really play a role in the general public?

Quote
Irix

Quote
Doxa

complaining - rightly IMO - about the brickwall is as useless

It isn't. Listen to 'Hackney Diamonds' on CD, Digital or HiRes. Then listen again from Vinyl or Dolby Atmos. The latter are far better, sound-wise.

Still I don't quite get how complaining about that would help anything? And isn't it good that there are formats released in which there is not that problem? So what exactly is the reason to complain? Why not just listening them?

Personally since I was a young kid listening to a vinyl records and taping stuff from a radio to c-cassettes, thinking two-side albums as ultimate god-given artistic gifts my favourite artists released about one a year, I've seen so many changes in music industry - some of them really shaking dramatically my little boat - that I have a long time ago adopted a Stoic attitude towards to anything that happens. You know, if there is nothing I can do about it, no use in crying. I cannot turn the clock back... Bitterness, nostalgia... no thank you, what is gone is gone. Carpe diem. Ugh.

- Doxa

Quote
Doxa

So what exactly is the reason to complain? Why not just listening them?

Maybe complaining helps for better sound-quality of future releases. And not everyone has the opportunity to get all formats of a release and can choose the one with the best sound-quality.

Again: this brickwalled mastering is not necessary, not even for 'Hackney Diamonds'. The Vinyl and Atmos versions of it are the proof.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2024-02-16 16:05 by Irix.

Quote
Irix

Quote
StonedRambler


Yeah but those special formats do not really play a role in the general public.

Vinyl is a special format and doesn't really play a role in the general public?

It does play some role of course (especially in sales since it is counted 1000x streams) but still the brickwalled Stereo mix is the one the vast majority of people will listen to.

Quote
Irix

Quote
Doxa

So what exactly is the reason to complain? Why not just listening them?

Maybe complaining helps for better sound-quality of future releases. And not everyone has the opportunity to get all formats of a release and can choose the one with the best sound-quality.

Yes I have to agree. I still don't understand why creating a poorer sounding version for mass release is preferable. It's because "youth" are listening to this through ear buds, and that makes it sound better? Is that true?

It's being done purposefully, I just don't understand why it's preferable to do it this way, especially when they create a "regular" version that is high fidelity.