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Big Al

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dcba

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GasLightStreet

It's absolute fantasy that you think Keith has zero to do with the Stones' finances.

I think Keith is totally clueless when it comes to basic daily things, and even more or so about managing the band™.

I remember reading a 99 interview where he said he gave a 50 quid tip to a London taxi driver and the person who was with him had to tell him it was too much.



Mick is the shield that protects Keef from the hardships of real life. Can you imagine our favourite guitarist putting together a tour? Me neither.

Keith is the consumate artist, but outside of his protective bubble he is like a fish out of water.

Isn't there a story about how Mick, when dining with someone at a restaurant, placed a few pounds down for waitresses tip, before slipping the tip back in his pocket when his companion's head was turned.

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DGA35
I remember back in 89 a Forbes magazine issue with Jagger/Richards on the cover and the headline What Will They Do With All That Money?
I also remember a quote from Bill Graham (paraphrasing): My lover is now a whore.

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Rocky Dijon
If you've read Walter Yetnikoff's book HOWLING AT THE MOON, you get a picture of how Keith's wasted image was both a boon and a curse. Yetnikoff talks about Keith falling asleep during a meeting and Mick seeming pissed off at him. Suddenly, when Yetnikoff's hired guns started tough negotiations, Keith snaps into shape and joins Mick creating a united front. Keith stopped slurring and was articulate and focused and was in lock-step with Mick. That said, Velvel didn't much care for Keith (not the least because of his relationship with Sarah Dash). He wanted and promised Mick a huge solo career and couldn't deliver it. Jane Rose started working on rehabilitating Keith's public image following DIRTY WORK. The transition starts with the Aretha video and the Chuck Berry film. It settles into the Errol Flynn persona of The Laughing Rogue. Regardless of how much was reality, Keith was able to protect himself with personas whereas Mick is seen as transparent even if, in private, he tends to be soft-spoken and reserved.

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dcba

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GasLightStreet

It's absolute fantasy that you think Keith has zero to do with the Stones' finances.

I think Keith is totally clueless when it comes to basic daily things, and even more or so about managing the band™.

I remember reading a 99 interview where he said he gave a 50 quid tip to a London taxi driver and the person who was with him had to tell him it was too much.

Mick is the shield that protects Keef from the hardships of real life. Can you imagine our favourite guitarist putting together a tour - I mean just finding venues and organizing an itinerary? Me neither.

Keith is the consumate artist, but outside of his protective bubble he is like a fish out of water.

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lem motlow

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stevecardi

The chick didn’t even have enough sense to put a bespoke clause in his Yves st Laurent contract and he ended up wearing the same jacket onstage as Justin Bieber.

This is interesting. Did this come out after the fact behind the scenes? Was Jagger / Jane Rose angered that Saint Laurent hadn't informed her that they were using other artists to promote the jacket?

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GasLightStreet

Keith's two solo albums are mostly listenable. Mick's are mostly unlistenable.

Mick focused on himself. Keith just wanted to be free to play music.

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Mathijs
I think the emphasis on how great Mick is as a businessman is hugely overblown. For the Stones the market is huge, there's only a few promotors that can do these big tours, so negotiating a good deal isn't all that difficult. Mick found out himself that a sell-to market is more important than being a good businessman -he wasn't able to get his solo 1988 Euro or US tour financed, he wasn't able to tour after Wandering Spirit because he couldn't get it financed.

And for Keith: he is equally important to Mick in making decisions. He is not the drugged-out bozo and never was. All decisions concerning the business aspects of the Stones are taken by Mick and Keith, and to some extent Charlie.

Mathijs

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Mathijs
I think the emphasis on how great Mick is as a businessman is hugely overblown. For the Stones the market is huge, there's only a few promotors that can do these big tours, so negotiating a good deal isn't all that difficult. Mick found out himself that a sell-to market is more important than being a good businessman -he wasn't able to get his solo 1988 Euro or US tour financed, he wasn't able to tour after Wandering Spirit because he couldn't get it financed.

And for Keith: he is equally important to Mick in making decisions. He is not the drugged-out bozo and never was. All decisions concerning the business aspects of the Stones are taken by Mick and Keith, and to some extent Charlie.

Mathijs

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Doxa

A-ha, this thread turned out to be just another Mick vs. Keith dick contest. Nice.

- Doxa

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Doxa
A-ha, this thread turned out to be just another Mick vs. Keith dick contest. Nice.

- Doxa

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Doxa

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Mathijs
I think the emphasis on how great Mick is as a businessman is hugely overblown. For the Stones the market is huge, there's only a few promotors that can do these big tours, so negotiating a good deal isn't all that difficult. Mick found out himself that a sell-to market is more important than being a good businessman -he wasn't able to get his solo 1988 Euro or US tour financed, he wasn't able to tour after Wandering Spirit because he couldn't get it financed.

And for Keith: he is equally important to Mick in making decisions. He is not the drugged-out bozo and never was. All decisions concerning the business aspects of the Stones are taken by Mick and Keith, and to some extent Charlie.

Mathijs

I never heard about that Wandering Spirit tour thing. Is this just an educated guess or are there actually some firm sources behind the claim?

- Doxa

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Dan
I am sure Mick could have toured the US in 1988 if he wished though the sizes of venues and guarantees he would expect were probably quite different than promoters were willing to offer.

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Rocky Dijon
Mick hired Roger Davies as a consultant for PRMITIVE COOL just as he hired Q Prime as a consultant for STEEL WHEELS. Davies put together a package tour concept for Mick, Bowie, and Tina Turner along with 2 or 3 movie concepts for them to consider (ROCKET BOYS by Dale Launer where Mick and David would play rival club owners; the remake of BEDTIME STORY by Dale Launer which became DIRTY ROTTEN SCOUNDRELS; and SUGAR, the musical version of SOME LIKE IT HOT which would have had Tina in Marilyn's dress and Mick & David in drag). The plan was all three artists would contribute songs to the soundtrack albums and then be able to mount another package tour. Had all of this happened, that's how Mick would have spent the rest of the 1980s into the 1990s. Whatever the real reason was, Mick never seemed too serious about the package tour concept.

By the Summer of 1987, Mick had Francesco Clemente designing a jungle stage backdrop for his planned solo world tour. Jeff Beck, G.E. Smith, and Soozie Tyrell were "set" for the tour. That last choice is surprising, but was very real. G.E. Smith was the first to balk as Lorne Michaels was holding his SNL slot for as long as possible which makes it obvious Mick was always on the fence about a solo tour of that magnitude. Somewhere between July and the album release in September, Mick delayed the tour. There were tentative dates with a start in Europe in September and hitting North America in mid-November with an SNL performance booked. We will likely never know the truth about what actually happened.

When Mick played The Country Club in L.A. with Beck and Terry Bozio in October, the talk of a tour was back on, though it was very tentative. Allegedly, it was January 1988 when it was finally decided that Beck wasn't touring with Mick.
Regardless, any real talk of a solo tour was off the table before the album even had a chance to hit stores. Despite all the flack Mick takes, 300K copies of PRIMITIVE COOL sold in the U.S. and a minor Top 40 hit would make Keith drool when you consider how his second solo studio effort fared a few years later.

As for WANDERING SPIRIT, when the URBAN JUNGLE tour ended, Mick and Keith both had meetings in 1990 with tentative plans for solo albums and tours. Keith did his, Mick didn't. Part of that may have been the Sony contract. While outside North America, Sony didn't make a big issue about the Virgin contract, the U.S. office did. Specifically, the Stones agreed to leave the CBS midline catalog titles in print longer than intended or face penalties in the contract Sony assumed from CBS in late 1989. This is why JUMP BACK was import-only in the States in 1993 and why Mick's album was moved from November 1992 to February 1993.

There was more speculation about the delay in WANDERING SPIRIT's release, but the contractual non-compete clause was very real. Part of what went wrong was also that Virgin used the superstar signings of Janet Jackson and the Stones to finance their new agreement with Capitol Records and left Atlantic Records behind. That meant Mick's back catalog and two album deal with Atlantic no longer shared distribution with the Stones' coming releases. This was corrected in 1999 or 2000 when Mick put the third Stones album for Virgin on hold to do GODDESS IN THE DOORWAY.

As for a tour for WANDERING SPIRIT, much like the possible tour for GODDESS IN THE DOORWAY, it was discussed, but nothing much happened. Mick put together bands for both albums for showcase concerts and promotional appearances, but he never used them the way Keith did the Winos. The band for WANDERING SPIRIT (Chuck Leavell substituting for Billy Preston) was excellent. Having Stevie Salas on GODDESS IN THE DOORWAY would have improved the album as his all-too-brief time with Mick proved.

Had Mick toured more as a solo act, it might have been a detriment to the Stones. Not only in their willingness to work so much since STEEL WHEELS (mainly road work, of course), but also potentially having a negative impact on ticket sales. The Stones stayed special.

Sure you could see Mick being amazing at The Grammys with Raphael Saadiq backing him, but that was a one-off. Want to see that amazing front man? Go see The Stones. Mick limiting his solo career played it safe for the band's long-term future. Keith as a cult figure happy to sell 100,000 copies when he still could was no threat to the Stones. Mick as a solo artist who didn't tour (outside of 1988 in Japan and Down Under) kept the Stones special.

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J-J-Flash
Some people here know a lot and simply share things. Simple as that

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J-J-Flash
Some people here think they know it all and simply make up things. Simple as that

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Dan
Said differently : in 86 Mick and Keef hated each other. In 88 they had realized they could not live without the other one.

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Dan

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Doxa

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Mathijs
I think the emphasis on how great Mick is as a businessman is hugely overblown. For the Stones the market is huge, there's only a few promotors that can do these big tours, so negotiating a good deal isn't all that difficult. Mick found out himself that a sell-to market is more important than being a good businessman -he wasn't able to get his solo 1988 Euro or US tour financed, he wasn't able to tour after Wandering Spirit because he couldn't get it financed.

And for Keith: he is equally important to Mick in making decisions. He is not the drugged-out bozo and never was. All decisions concerning the business aspects of the Stones are taken by Mick and Keith, and to some extent Charlie.

Mathijs

I never heard about that Wandering Spirit tour thing. Is this just an educated guess or are there actually some firm sources behind the claim?

- Doxa

Considering the Voodoo Lounge recording and touring cycle was already on the calendar before Wandering Spirit came out, I also highly doubt it.

Also not sure where he gets "getting the tour financed" from as no Mick Jagger solo tour would require the expense and effort behind a Stones tour. Modest self or record company start ups against advances from promoters like any other arena tour of the time. I am sure Mick could have toured the US in 1988 if he wished though the sizes of venues and guarantees he would expect were probably quite different than promoters were willing to offer.

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Mathijs

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Dan

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Doxa

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Mathijs
I think the emphasis on how great Mick is as a businessman is hugely overblown. For the Stones the market is huge, there's only a few promotors that can do these big tours, so negotiating a good deal isn't all that difficult. Mick found out himself that a sell-to market is more important than being a good businessman -he wasn't able to get his solo 1988 Euro or US tour financed, he wasn't able to tour after Wandering Spirit because he couldn't get it financed.

And for Keith: he is equally important to Mick in making decisions. He is not the drugged-out bozo and never was. All decisions concerning the business aspects of the Stones are taken by Mick and Keith, and to some extent Charlie.

Mathijs

I never heard about that Wandering Spirit tour thing. Is this just an educated guess or are there actually some firm sources behind the claim?

- Doxa

Considering the Voodoo Lounge recording and touring cycle was already on the calendar before Wandering Spirit came out, I also highly doubt it.

Also not sure where he gets "getting the tour financed" from as no Mick Jagger solo tour would require the expense and effort behind a Stones tour. Modest self or record company start ups against advances from promoters like any other arena tour of the time. I am sure Mick could have toured the US in 1988 if he wished though the sizes of venues and guarantees he would expect were probably quite different than promoters were willing to offer.

Ask Jimmy Rip. Jagger really was planning on touring behind Wandering Spirit, he had the band ready, but he was not supported by the record company. Jagger's 1988 tour wasn't a financial success, and whereas Jagger wanted to tour the big stadiums, the record company felt he only could do a much smaller arena tour like Keith did. Jagger wanted to be Michael Jackson and Madonna, but he just couldn't fill the same stadiums with his own band. In the end he basically dropped the idea and started working on what would become Voodoo Lounge.

Mathijs

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Mathijs

Ask Jimmy Rip. Jagger really was planning on touring behind Wandering Spirit, he had the band ready, but he was not supported by the record company. Jagger's 1988 tour wasn't a financial success, and whereas Jagger wanted to tour the big stadiums, the record company felt he only could do a much smaller arena tour like Keith did. Jagger wanted to be Michael Jackson and Madonna, but he just couldn't fill the same stadiums with his own band. In the end he basically dropped the idea and started working on what would become Voodoo Lounge.

Mathijs

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caschimann
When I see a post talking about "Jagger" all the times I stop reading it. Its out of this world talking about Mick like he is a stranger or some CEO from some corporation. Can't stand this "Jagger"-nonsense anymore. Do you guys think you sound very cool talking like this? Unbelievable.
No one ever talked here about Watts, or Wood, or Wyman, or Richards all the time.
Never.

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Mathijs

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Dan

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Doxa

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Mathijs
I think the emphasis on how great Mick is as a businessman is hugely overblown. For the Stones the market is huge, there's only a few promotors that can do these big tours, so negotiating a good deal isn't all that difficult. Mick found out himself that a sell-to market is more important than being a good businessman -he wasn't able to get his solo 1988 Euro or US tour financed, he wasn't able to tour after Wandering Spirit because he couldn't get it financed.

And for Keith: he is equally important to Mick in making decisions. He is not the drugged-out bozo and never was. All decisions concerning the business aspects of the Stones are taken by Mick and Keith, and to some extent Charlie.

Mathijs

I never heard about that Wandering Spirit tour thing. Is this just an educated guess or are there actually some firm sources behind the claim?

- Doxa

Considering the Voodoo Lounge recording and touring cycle was already on the calendar before Wandering Spirit came out, I also highly doubt it.

Also not sure where he gets "getting the tour financed" from as no Mick Jagger solo tour would require the expense and effort behind a Stones tour. Modest self or record company start ups against advances from promoters like any other arena tour of the time. I am sure Mick could have toured the US in 1988 if he wished though the sizes of venues and guarantees he would expect were probably quite different than promoters were willing to offer.

Ask Jimmy Rip. Jagger really was planning on touring behind Wandering Spirit, he had the band ready, but he was not supported by the record company. Jagger's 1988 tour wasn't a financial success, and whereas Jagger wanted to tour the big stadiums, the record company felt he only could do a much smaller arena tour like Keith did. Jagger wanted to be Michael Jackson and Madonna, but he just couldn't fill the same stadiums with his own band. In the end he basically dropped the idea and started working on what would become Voodoo Lounge.

Mathijs