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Re: Who Started The Stones (once and for all)?
Posted by: LeonidP ()
Date: June 28, 2022 06:14

I could of sworn I read that they started when Darryl Jones and Ronnie Wood met at a train station in Dartford. But hey, everyone has their own opinions about it.

Re: Who Started The Stones (once and for all)?
Posted by: GasLightStreet ()
Date: June 28, 2022 06:32

"with Mick Jagger"

That says plenty right there.

Re: Who Started The Stones (once and for all)?
Posted by: CaptainCorella ()
Date: June 28, 2022 08:05

Quote
LeonidP
I could of sworn I read that they started when Darryl Jones and Ronnie Wood met at a train station in Dartford. But hey, everyone has their own opinions about it.

I actually believed that one for quite a long time, and then I did some more research and discovered that there was a Train Strike on the exact day claimed, so it has to be fake.

--
Captain Corella
60 Years a Fan

Re: Who Started The Stones (once and for all)?
Posted by: Paddy ()
Date: June 28, 2022 08:37

Brian Jones

Re: Who Started The Stones (once and for all)?
Date: June 28, 2022 09:24

Quote
ProfessorWolf
Quote
Taylor1
Brian Hopkins Jones

and ian andrew robert stewart

in my opinion for what's it's worth these two are responsible for starting the band

also technically it's

lewis brian hopkins jones

Hopkin, I believe smiling smiley

Re: Who Started The Stones (once and for all)?
Posted by: The Worst. ()
Date: June 28, 2022 11:58

Quote
Gazza
Quote
The Worst.

(Note: Earl Phillips is a joke, of course. At this point they didn’t have a drummer.)

wishful thinking - he was Jimmy Reed's drummer ! (also played with Howlin Wolf, John Lee Hooker and others(

I know! I meant that was a joke from Brian, putting in the 'famous' blues drummer.

Re: Who Started The Stones (once and for all)?
Posted by: NilsHolgersson ()
Date: June 28, 2022 12:01

Chuck Leavell

Re: Who Started The Stones (once and for all)?
Posted by: deeeskannnie ()
Date: June 28, 2022 13:24

Quote
NilsHolgersson
Chuck Leavell

spinning smiley sticking its tongue out “1-2-3-4…” you’re right! hot smiley

Re: Who Started The Stones (once and for all)?
Posted by: schillid ()
Date: June 28, 2022 18:53

You can debate about who started the Stones ...
Charlie Watts is the one that made 'em Rolling

Re: Who Started The Stones (once and for all)?
Posted by: NilsHolgersson ()
Date: June 28, 2022 19:59

Actually they didn't have a drummer at first, and Charlie was a roadie. Then Mick taught Charlie everything he needed to know about drumming so from then on, Charlie was their drummer.

Re: Who Started The Stones (once and for all)?
Posted by: Rockman ()
Date: June 29, 2022 00:19

I fink Blondie was underneath it all ......



ROCKMAN

Re: Who Started The Stones (once and for all)?
Posted by: Blueranger ()
Date: June 29, 2022 00:44

Quote
Redhotcarpet
Brian. We all know he started the band. He had a vision, he picked the bandmembers, named the group and functioned as a manager in the beginning.

Lauhable to pretend Stu started anything. He’s just a strawman for Keith and some of you Keithettes. grinning smiley

Read the thread. It’s not that simple.
And he didn’t ‘pick’ any members, nor did he start the band alone. It was 2 seperate bands melting together. It’s a myth he was the one starting it. He started ONE PART. The other part was started by Mick and Keith.

Re: Who Started The Stones (once and for all)?
Posted by: The Worst. ()
Date: June 29, 2022 00:45

To elaborate a bit more of important events in autumn 1962/spring 1963 that shows Brian Jones was the sole leader of the band…

An interesting advert in Jazz from the 14th of November 1962 said:

ROLLIN’ STONES
A Shot of Rhythm & Blues.
Mick Jagger – Brian Jones
and the R&B Group.
Anytime, Anywhere.


This gives the impression that the band had two leaders, Mick and Brian, but when The Rolling Stones went to studio for the very first time three weeks earlier on the 26th of October 1962 in Curly Clayton Sound Studios, it was Brian who decided what tracks to record (Muddy Waters’ “Soon Forgotten”, Jimmy Reed’s “Close Together” & Bo Diddley’s “You Can't Judge A Book By The Cover”).

A record was cut in the studio and handed to the band. This demo recording was given to EMI Records in London. On the 31st of October, Neville Skrimshire from EMI listened to recordings and said something like “The band is good, but they’re getting nowhere with that vocalist”. This comment got into Brian Jones’ head. (However: it is probably true that Brian didn't pay a thing and that Mick had to pay Curly Clayton the full amount of 12 punds on behalf of the band.)

Fast forward to the 5th of May 1963, when Dick Rowe attended his first Stones gig at Crawdaddy. Brian was introduced to Rowe as “the leader of the band”. Brian was therefore invited to the meeting with Eric Easton, Andrew Loog Oldham, and Dick Rowe at Decca Records on the 7th of May. At this meeting Brian suggested that Mick should be replaced with another vocalist. Dick Rowe initially agreed. Word has it that Andrew and Dick Rowe’s wife (who did see Stones at the Crawdaddy) defended Mick. But it was Stu that turned Brian away from this move. According to Stu himself, he told Brian “Don’t be a f**king idiot”. This intervention may have saved The Rolling Stones.

Now, all of this shows two things: 1) Brian was without a doubt the undisputed leader of the group in 1962/63. 2) He had a terrible judgement of things.

Re: Who Started The Stones (once and for all)?
Posted by: 06230 ()
Date: June 29, 2022 01:00

Quote
Rockman
I fink Blondie was underneath it all ......[/quote
I'm with ya brother. Blondes rule
Does anyone really give a shit. It's done. I'm well into my sixties and I'm taking my fourty plus daughter to her first stones concert .. so just bloody get real and enjoy cause sooner or later this will be the last time

Re: Who Started The Stones (once and for all)?
Posted by: 06230 ()
Date: June 29, 2022 01:13

Rockman I apologise, I was trying to appreciate ya post and somehow it kinda got tangled and messy as in operater error ie me.

Myself & my daughter will make good this Sunday and drink heavily and give a toast to ya dude..

Re: Who Started The Stones (once and for all)?
Posted by: willnash ()
Date: June 29, 2022 01:19

Quote
The Worst.
To elaborate a bit more of important events in autumn 1962/spring 1963 that shows Brian Jones was the sole leader of the band…

An interesting advert in Jazz from the 14th of November 1962 said:

ROLLIN’ STONES
A Shot of Rhythm & Blues.
Mick Jagger – Brian Jones
and the R&B Group.
Anytime, Anywhere.


This gives the impression that the band had two leaders, Mick and Brian, but when The Rolling Stones went to studio for the very first time three weeks earlier on the 26th of October 1962 in Curly Clayton Sound Studios, it was Brian who decided what tracks to record (Muddy Waters’ “Soon Forgotten”, Jimmy Reed’s “Close Together” & Bo Diddley’s “You Can't Judge A Book By The Cover”).

A record was cut in the studio and handed to the band. This demo recording was given to EMI Records in London. On the 31st of October, Neville Skrimshire from EMI listened to recordings and said something like “The band is good, but they’re getting nowhere with that vocalist”. This comment got into Brian Jones’ head. (However: it is probably true that Brian didn't pay a thing and that Mick had to pay Curly Clayton the full amount of 12 punds on behalf of the band.)

Fast forward to the 5th of May 1963, when Dick Rowe attended his first Stones gig at Crawdaddy. Brian was introduced to Rowe as “the leader of the band”. Brian was therefore invited to the meeting with Eric Easton, Andrew Loog Oldham, and Dick Rowe at Decca Records on the 7th of May. At this meeting Brian suggested that Mick should be replaced with another vocalist. Dick Rowe initially agreed. Word has it that Andrew and Dick Rowe’s wife (who did see Stones at the Crawdaddy) defended Mick. But it was Stu that turned Brian away from this move. According to Stu himself, he told Brian “Don’t be a f**king idiot”. This intervention may have saved The Rolling Stones.

Now, all of this shows two things: 1) Brian was without a doubt the undisputed leader of the group in 1962/63. 2) He had a terrible judgement of things.


The worst - you might want to contact me direct if of interest as I have Stu’s diaries in the Archive for both 1961 & 2 as well as other unpublished materials & puts some meat on the bone of especially early 62. I don’t nonetheless question that Brian was at the forefront - I equally don’t assume Stu’s diary as gospel but it seems to be there or thereabouts on reliability and does connect dots.

Re: Who Started The Stones (once and for all)?
Posted by: The Worst. ()
Date: June 29, 2022 01:33

Willnash, that would definitely be interesting! There was a time at university when I spent more time ‘studying’ early Stones history than what I was supposed to be studying. Some would call it a waste of time and it probably was! Are you the editor/author of that Stones book your signature is linking to? It has been on my list for a while, but as long as the Stones are touring, I’ve had to prioritize tickets for live shows.

Re: Who Started The Stones (once and for all)?
Posted by: Rocky Dijon ()
Date: June 29, 2022 01:34

Who started The Stones once? Brian, unquestionably.

Who started The Stones for all? Mick and Keith, also unquestionably.

Re: Who Started The Stones (once and for all)?
Posted by: willnash ()
Date: June 29, 2022 01:37

Yes The Worst - I was author, editor and publisher of the Stu book and am as well the administrator of Stu’s remaining personal archive.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2022-06-29 01:39 by willnash.

Re: Who Started The Stones (once and for all)?
Posted by: Rockman ()
Date: June 29, 2022 09:12

06230 ...... HHHHHaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

Enjoy the shows man ....... Enjoy 'em



ROCKMAN

Re: Who Started The Stones (once and for all)?
Posted by: Redhotcarpet ()
Date: June 29, 2022 12:10

Quote
Blueranger
Quote
Redhotcarpet
Brian. We all know he started the band. He had a vision, he picked the bandmembers, named the group and functioned as a manager in the beginning.

Lauhable to pretend Stu started anything. He’s just a strawman for Keith and some of you Keithettes. grinning smiley

Read the thread. It’s not that simple.
And he didn’t ‘pick’ any members, nor did he start the band alone. It was 2 seperate bands melting together. It’s a myth he was the one starting it. He started ONE PART. The other part was started by Mick and Keith.

Brian started a band by picking Mick and Keith, he was the manager. Bill among others confirm this. Mick and Keith didnt really have a band, Mick was likely to just continue with hus studies at LSE. And Keith wasnt leading anything.

Re: Who Started The Stones (once and for all)?
Posted by: Blueranger ()
Date: June 29, 2022 13:49

Quote
Redhotcarpet
Quote
Blueranger
Quote
Redhotcarpet
Brian. We all know he started the band. He had a vision, he picked the bandmembers, named the group and functioned as a manager in the beginning.

Lauhable to pretend Stu started anything. He’s just a strawman for Keith and some of you Keithettes. grinning smiley

Read the thread. It’s not that simple.
And he didn’t ‘pick’ any members, nor did he start the band alone. It was 2 seperate bands melting together. It’s a myth he was the one starting it. He started ONE PART. The other part was started by Mick and Keith.

Brian started a band by picking Mick and Keith, he was the manager. Bill among others confirm this. Mick and Keith didnt really have a band, Mick was likely to just continue with hus studies at LSE. And Keith wasnt leading anything.


In a handwritten letter by Brian Jones to an early fan, dated May 4, 1963, Jones himself says this about it:

"The band is really an amalgamation of two bands. The one being an R & B band I formed about a year ago, and the other being a group run by Mick and Keith in S.E. London. I was introduced to Keith and we decided to pool our resources, so with Stu from my band, and Mick from Keith’s we became the nucleus of the “Stones.” - Brian Jones, 1963.

Re: Who Started The Stones (once and for all)?
Date: June 29, 2022 14:11

"Mick from Keith’s"

Interesting...

Re: Who Started The Stones (once and for all)?
Posted by: LeonidP ()
Date: June 29, 2022 15:43

Quote
The Worst.
To elaborate a bit more of important events in autumn 1962/spring 1963 that shows Brian Jones was the sole leader of the band…

An interesting advert in Jazz from the 14th of November 1962 said:

ROLLIN’ STONES
A Shot of Rhythm & Blues.
Mick Jagger – Brian Jones
and the R&B Group.
Anytime, Anywhere.


This gives the impression that the band had two leaders, Mick and Brian, but when The Rolling Stones went to studio for the very first time three weeks earlier on the 26th of October 1962 in Curly Clayton Sound Studios, it was Brian who decided what tracks to record (Muddy Waters’ “Soon Forgotten”, Jimmy Reed’s “Close Together” & Bo Diddley’s “You Can't Judge A Book By The Cover”).

A record was cut in the studio and handed to the band. This demo recording was given to EMI Records in London. On the 31st of October, Neville Skrimshire from EMI listened to recordings and said something like “The band is good, but they’re getting nowhere with that vocalist”. This comment got into Brian Jones’ head. (However: it is probably true that Brian didn't pay a thing and that Mick had to pay Curly Clayton the full amount of 12 punds on behalf of the band.)

Fast forward to the 5th of May 1963, when Dick Rowe attended his first Stones gig at Crawdaddy. Brian was introduced to Rowe as “the leader of the band”. Brian was therefore invited to the meeting with Eric Easton, Andrew Loog Oldham, and Dick Rowe at Decca Records on the 7th of May. At this meeting Brian suggested that Mick should be replaced with another vocalist. Dick Rowe initially agreed. Word has it that Andrew and Dick Rowe’s wife (who did see Stones at the Crawdaddy) defended Mick. But it was Stu that turned Brian away from this move. According to Stu himself, he told Brian “Don’t be a f**king idiot”. This intervention may have saved The Rolling Stones.

Now, all of this shows two things: 1) Brian was without a doubt the undisputed leader of the group in 1962/63. 2) He had a terrible judgement of things.

Great read! ... as for the Brian comment, regarding wanting to replace Mick: "2) He had a terrible judgement of things."

I disagree! I don't think a single human could have predicted what the Stones would become. When you look back, it turned out to be wrong, certainly -- but no way anyone could have known that then!

Re: Who Started The Stones (once and for all)?
Posted by: The Worst. ()
Date: June 29, 2022 16:37

LeonidP: you are right, of course. But if it was up to Brian, The Rolling Stones would have become the greatest R&B-cover band in the UK. He wanted to Stones to be a tribute band to his heroes. Thankfully Mick and Keith took over the leadership, wrote their own songs and turned The Rolling Stones into The Greatest Rock and Roll Band in the World. Maybe I'm a bit harsh, but I think this is another example of Brian's bad judgements or lack of vision. Mick and Keith understood something that Brian didn't. And I don't think the song writing was triggered by ALO locking them into that kitchen, I think the definite moment was "Love Me Do" by The Beatles.

Re: Who Started The Stones (once and for all)?
Posted by: deeeskannnie ()
Date: June 29, 2022 17:40

Quote
Blueranger
Quote
Redhotcarpet
Quote
Blueranger
Quote
Redhotcarpet
Brian. We all know he started the band. He had a vision, he picked the bandmembers, named the group and functioned as a manager in the beginning.

Lauhable to pretend Stu started anything. He’s just a strawman for Keith and some of you Keithettes. grinning smiley

Read the thread. It’s not that simple.
And he didn’t ‘pick’ any members, nor did he start the band alone. It was 2 seperate bands melting together. It’s a myth he was the one starting it. He started ONE PART. The other part was started by Mick and Keith.

Brian started a band by picking Mick and Keith, he was the manager. Bill among others confirm this. Mick and Keith didnt really have a band, Mick was likely to just continue with hus studies at LSE. And Keith wasnt leading anything.


In a handwritten letter by Brian Jones to an early fan, dated May 4, 1963, Jones himself says this about it:

"The band is really an amalgamation of two bands. The one being an R & B band I formed about a year ago, and the other being a group run by Mick and Keith in S.E. London. I was introduced to Keith and we decided to pool our resources, so with Stu from my band, and Mick from Keith’s we became the nucleus of the “Stones.” - Brian Jones, 1963.

Well done copy/pasting my post from 2 days ago, here on pg. 1 Blueranger.
I mean: a quote is a quote is a quote; that’s everybody’s.
But you even copied my intro to it (without aknowledging): … confused smiley

You forgot to ‘copy’ the link to the actual letter though.


Quote
deeeskannnie
In a handwritten letter by Brian Jones to an early fan, dated May 4, 1963, Jones himself says this about it:

"The band is really an amalgamation of two bands. The one being an R & B band I formed about a year ago, and the other being a group run by Mick and Keith in S.E. London. I was introduced to Keith and we decided to pool our resources, so with Stu from my band, and Mick from Keith’s we became the nucleus of the “Stones.” - Brian Jones, 1963.

Here’s the letter:

Brian Jones 1963

Re: Who Started The Stones (once and for all)?
Posted by: LeonidP ()
Date: June 29, 2022 18:48

Quote
The Worst.
LeonidP: you are right, of course. But if it was up to Brian, The Rolling Stones would have become the greatest R&B-cover band in the UK. He wanted to Stones to be a tribute band to his heroes. Thankfully Mick and Keith took over the leadership, wrote their own songs and turned The Rolling Stones into The Greatest Rock and Roll Band in the World. Maybe I'm a bit harsh, but I think this is another example of Brian's bad judgements or lack of vision. Mick and Keith understood something that Brian didn't. And I don't think the song writing was triggered by ALO locking them into that kitchen, I think the definite moment was "Love Me Do" by The Beatles.

Hey The Worst, but not so sure Mick & Keith even had that vision. If what I think I've read on this is acurate (I definitely don't know the history as great as some on here, but I've read my share), wasn't it Andrew Loog Oldham that forced them to do this? Supposedly locking them in a room until Mick/Keith wrote a song?

I think I recall that story this way, Andrew saw what the Beatles were doing, and realized the Stones needed to write their own songs too.

One thing I always like to point out to the Mick/Keith haters though, when the go on their "Brian and Bill were not treated fairly" rants ... in Bill's own book he writes how Mick & Keith were always inside writing songs in the early years, while he and Brian were out trying to sleep w/ as many women as possible -- and then ignoring his own words, he at times talks about the lack of writing credits bitterly throughout.

Re: Who Started The Stones (once and for all)?
Posted by: 24FPS ()
Date: June 30, 2022 09:11

Oh, just give it to Brian. The poor sod didn't get much else.

Re: Who Started The Stones (once and for all)?
Posted by: The Worst. ()
Date: July 1, 2022 17:43

Quote
LeonidP
Quote
The Worst.
LeonidP: you are right, of course. But if it was up to Brian, The Rolling Stones would have become the greatest R&B-cover band in the UK. He wanted to Stones to be a tribute band to his heroes. Thankfully Mick and Keith took over the leadership, wrote their own songs and turned The Rolling Stones into The Greatest Rock and Roll Band in the World. Maybe I'm a bit harsh, but I think this is another example of Brian's bad judgements or lack of vision. Mick and Keith understood something that Brian didn't. And I don't think the song writing was triggered by ALO locking them into that kitchen, I think the definite moment was "Love Me Do" by The Beatles.

Hey The Worst, but not so sure Mick & Keith even had that vision. If what I think I've read on this is acurate (I definitely don't know the history as great as some on here, but I've read my share), wasn't it Andrew Loog Oldham that forced them to do this? Supposedly locking them in a room until Mick/Keith wrote a song?

I think I recall that story this way, Andrew saw what the Beatles were doing, and realized the Stones needed to write their own songs too.

One thing I always like to point out to the Mick/Keith haters though, when the go on their "Brian and Bill were not treated fairly" rants ... in Bill's own book he writes how Mick & Keith were always inside writing songs in the early years, while he and Brian were out trying to sleep w/ as many women as possible -- and then ignoring his own words, he at times talks about the lack of writing credits bitterly throughout.

That story about Andrew Loog Oldham 'forcing' them to write a song by locking them into kitchen, was what I refered to when I wrote "I don't think the song writing was triggered by ALO locking them into that kitchen".

That story comes from Keith. Mick has always denied it. The reason why it seems a bit strange is because Keith always said they wrote 'As Tears Go By' when ALO suposedly locked them into the kitchen, but they had in fact written songs before 'As Tears Go By' (such as 'Tell Me').

'Love Me Do' was released in October 1962, just before Stones went into the Curly Clayton Studio cutting R&B covers. Beatles and Stones met in Richmond on the 14th of April 1963, discussing 'Love Me Do' and songwriting among other things. Brian is said to have been mostly interested in the sound of Lennon's harmonica and invited Beatles home to Edith Grove so they could listen to blues records. Lennon then invited The Stones to come and see The Beatles at Royal Albert Hall a few days later. A crowd of 5000 was something The Stones had not experienced at this point, but more importantly: Beatles were playing their own material. And the girls were screaming. 'From Me To You' was number one on the UK charts, so they were also making money in the process. I am convinced this must have inspired Mick and Keith, but maybe Andrew Loog Oldham pushed them and gave them a bit of confidence.

Re: Who Started The Stones (once and for all)?
Posted by: Nikkei ()
Date: July 1, 2022 17:53

Quote
The Worst.
That story comes from Keith. Mick has always denied it. The reason why it seems a bit strange is because Keith always said they wrote 'As Tears Go By' when ALO suposedly locked them into the kitchen, but they had in fact written songs before 'As Tears Go By' (such as 'Tell Me').

What I found strange about it is that Keith always also says how they couldn't give ATGB to the Stones because they would have been "laughed out of the room" yet Tell Me is even more sappy when you think about it. When exactly was the Faithfull version recorded/released?

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