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Re: Charlie Watts pulls out of US tour after undergoing emergency surgery
Posted by: bam ()
Date: August 8, 2021 18:43

Let’s try to separate what we do know from what we don’t and is likely p.r.:

- Charlie had a “procedure.” It could have been oral surgery or an injection for back pain. It could have been, and we all hope not, extremely serious. We don’t know.

- Charlie isn’t going on the tour.

- The indication from the statements is that Charlie will skip the entire American tour, and approved (at some point) of Steve Jordan going out as his replacement.

- Charlie did not announce his retirement.

- Charlie hopes to do something with the group later this year, presumably after the tour.

- Charlie will presumably do something with the group next year for the anniversary, but we don’t know what Charlie will/can do.

There may be insiders who know more but can’t say. But I don’t think we can say much more about Charlie from what has been announced.

Re: Charlie Watts pulls out of US tour after undergoing emergency surgery
Posted by: Dougratajczak87 ()
Date: August 8, 2021 18:50

Quote
bam
Let’s try to separate what we do know from what we don’t and is likely p.r.:

- Charlie had a “procedure.” It could have been oral surgery or an injection for back pain. It could have been, and we all hope not, extremely serious. We don’t know.

- Charlie isn’t going on the tour.

- The indication from the statements is that Charlie will skip the entire American tour, and approved (at some point) of Steve Jordan going out as his replacement.

- Charlie did not announce his retirement.

- Charlie hopes to do something with the group later this year, presumably after the tour.

- Charlie will presumably do something with the group next year for the anniversary, but we don’t know what Charlie will/can do.

There may be insiders who know more but can’t say. But I don’t think we can say much more about Charlie from what has been announced.

A good summary of the facts.

I think it's fair to say that Charlie is not going to be on this tour, as Rolling Stone reported that he will miss the entire tour. The main IORR News page says the same citing Rolling Stone. Ronnie on his Twitter said he will miss Charlie this tour. Keith and Mick said they look forward to welcoming him back/seeing him when he is fully recovered. Charlie's own publicist says he is "unlikely" to be available for the tour. All those things combined makes it seem like business reasons are the primary reason for the suggestion of any possibility of Charlie joining the tour later in the year.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021-08-08 18:50 by Dougratajczak87.

Re: Charlie Watts pulls out of US tour after undergoing emergency surgery
Posted by: micawber ()
Date: August 8, 2021 19:11

Quote
TooTough
After reading most of the crap in this thread I must realize
that I´m in a wrong place after being here for 20 years.

Reading this thread made me realize that I am a purist,
a nerd, a fanatic, a Stones-Taliban.
I´m totally upset that M+K go on without Charlie, even if it
was for just one show.

I´m totally upset that they kneel down in front of insurances,
sponsors and contracts at this stage of their career. They make
their own rules. They are the Greatest Band in the World.

I´m totally upset that most of the people on IORR buy this excuse.

I´m totally upset that they don´t say “Fvck the contract. No Charlie,
no tour! What´s the fine?”

I´m totally upset that Charlie isn´t irreplaceable for most of
the people here.

I´m totally upset that the common sense on IORR is that
another drummer could replace him and add something to the
sound/setlist the day and the day after the news.
And this will go on. Treason.

I´m totally upset that even the webmaster of this site is
curious what the new one will do on Midnight Rambler.

I´m totally upset that some here are criticizing Charlies
drumming/style/tempo – in a band that is known for doing
so with any instrument, the singer included – for 60 @#$%&
years. It´s their trademark. Their DNA. Unbelievable bullshit.

I´m totally upset that I have to explain that to “soulbrothers
and soulsisters” on a Rolling Stones fansite.

Retired-dog said “Did you perform the same or a similar drama
when Bill left?”. Ass_hole. I wouldn´t tell you. Why posting
the answer on this site? Useless anyway. There´s just a handful
of people who feel the same as me. But that´s good to know.

I´ve seen the band 63 times (3 times with Bill), have achieved
anything I wanted. Some really important informations I got on
IORR. Thanks, bv. This was always a helpful community, but the
Charlie news “sorted the wheat from the chaff“. It will never
be the same, for the Stones and for this site. I couldn´t stand
the band touring without Charlie and reading enthusiastic posts
of how good Steve Jordan fit in.


Like what Keith once said to Bill German: "Forward, brother!"


bv, please delete my account. Thank you.


Rolling Stones forever.

I agree to 1000%.

Pls. bv - cancel my account, too. Thank you, bv, for that and for all you and this forum gave to me in all those cool years!



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2021-08-09 11:35 by micawber.

Re: Charlie Watts pulls out of US tour after undergoing emergency surgery
Posted by: micawber ()
Date: August 8, 2021 19:14

Quote
GasLightStreet
Quote
TooTough
After reading most of the crap in this thread I must realize
that I´m in a wrong place after being here for 20 years.

Reading this thread made me realize that I am a purist,
a nerd, a fanatic, a Stones-Taliban.
I´m totally upset that M+K go on without Charlie, even if it
was for just one show.

I´m totally upset that they kneel down in front of insurances,
sponsors and contracts at this stage of their career. They make
their own rules. They are the Greatest Band in the World.

I´m totally upset that most of the people on IORR buy this excuse.

I´m totally upset that they don´t say “Fvck the contract. No Charlie,
no tour! What´s the fine?”

I've seen some really stupid clueless things on iorr but this post, including what I left out, is not only the icing on the cake but is the cake, the baker, the oven, the pan, the kitchen...

Keep on dissing unvaxxed people. Be happy with the band formerly known as The Rolling Stones. Enjoy yourself. And shut the f*#& up.
Bye.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021-08-08 19:16 by micawber.

Re: Charlie Watts pulls out of US tour after undergoing emergency surgery
Posted by: treaclefingers ()
Date: August 8, 2021 19:37

Quote
Topi
If TooTough is gone, can we still call this site IORR?

that was pretty heartless!

Re: Charlie Watts pulls out of US tour after undergoing emergency surgery
Posted by: WorriedAboutYou ()
Date: August 8, 2021 20:11

Wow, some people are acting like their wives have had a one-night stand or something.

Perspective - a drummer in a heritage rock band is having a few nights off for health related issues. Throwing around accusations of "treason" is embarrassing.

Re: Charlie Watts pulls out of US tour after undergoing emergency surgery
Posted by: Nikkei ()
Date: August 8, 2021 20:18

Asking for your account to be deactivated might be embarrassing, but reading drivel a la "Mick and Keith will never stop, that's just wat they do, always have and Charlie is 80 , that's a little too old to blast out Rock" is just as well

Re: Charlie Watts pulls out of US tour after undergoing emergency surgery
Posted by: bam ()
Date: August 8, 2021 20:18

Quote
WorriedAboutYou
Wow, some people are acting like their wives have had a one-night stand or something.

Perspective - a drummer in a heritage rock band is having a few nights off for health related issues. Throwing around accusations of "treason" is embarrassing.
thumbs up

Since Charlie is our darling, people do seem to get carried away.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021-08-08 20:23 by bam.

Re: Charlie Watts pulls out of US tour after undergoing emergency surgery
Posted by: Nikkei ()
Date: August 8, 2021 20:21

Most embarrasing of all will be creating this precedent just to have this tour shut down for quaranteenous reasons

Re: Charlie Watts pulls out of US tour after undergoing emergency surgery
Posted by: Nikkei ()
Date: August 8, 2021 20:24

Maybe having crew breakthrough infections during rehearsals could enable them to get a further postponement past the insurance?

Re: Charlie Watts pulls out of US tour after undergoing emergency surgery
Posted by: treaclefingers ()
Date: August 8, 2021 20:24

Quote
Nikkei
Most embarrasing of all will be creating this precedent just to have this tour shut down for quaranteenous reasons[/quote

Well and if we don't think that is a distinct possibility, we're not following things closely enough.

Re: Charlie Watts pulls out of US tour after undergoing emergency surgery
Posted by: clapton71 ()
Date: August 8, 2021 20:29

New picture should just be Mick, Ronnie, and Keith...IMO

Re: Rolling Stones drummer Charlie Watts, 80, pulls out of band's US tour after undergoing emergency surgery in London
Posted by: Topi ()
Date: August 8, 2021 20:32

Quote
EddieByword
Quote
EddieByword
Apparently Charlie asked Steve Jordan to step in........ [www.rollingstone.com]

... “After all the fans’ suffering caused by Covid, I really do not want the many RS fans who have been holding tickets for this tour to be disappointed by another postponement or cancellation. I have therefore asked my great friend Steve Jordan to stand in for me.”

What that "statement" - of course, carefully worded by the PR dept. - doesn't say is that they could not cancel. And there was nowhere to postpone this tour anymore either.

They're also making it sound like Charlie picked Jordan, while that kind of a decision certainly had to be run by Mick and Keith at least.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2021-08-08 20:37 by Topi.

Re: Charlie Watts pulls out of US tour after undergoing emergency surgery
Posted by: Irix ()
Date: August 8, 2021 20:35

Quote
Nikkei

Maybe having crew breakthrough infections during rehearsals could enable them to get a further postponement past the insurance?

Maybe the 2021 US-Tour gets cancelled last minute due to new Covid-19 measures by the government, Charlie will be ok again by the end of 2021, rejoins the Stones - and all the fuss was for nothing. winking smiley

Re: Charlie Watts pulls out of US tour after undergoing emergency surgery
Posted by: maumau ()
Date: August 8, 2021 20:48

I ive in Italy and have no possibility to see the stones in this leg of the tour. I have much respect for Steve Jordan and his work, but for once I feel good I can't attend a stones concert. Will the brand go as far as Mick and Keith stand on their feet? Mick and Keith are the heart of Stones, not the Stones



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021-08-08 20:48 by maumau.

Re: Charlie Watts pulls out of US tour after undergoing emergency surgery
Posted by: wonderboy ()
Date: August 8, 2021 20:54

I'm a bit surprised the nature of the surgery hasn't been reported.

Re: Charlie Watts pulls out of US tour after undergoing emergency surgery
Posted by: Hairball ()
Date: August 8, 2021 20:58

The Stones train is gradually derailing...slowly disintegrating...deteriorating piece by piece...
Not sure when it will fully crumble into smithereens, but with the absence of Charlie it's literally losing the engine.
Steve Jordan is great without question, but he's certainly no Stone and definitely not Charlie...
Will they ever be able to storm down the tracks full speed ahead with Charlie again some day? Hoping so.

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

Re: Charlie Watts pulls out of US tour after undergoing emergency surgery
Posted by: bakersfield ()
Date: August 8, 2021 21:00

I think we should remind ourselves that the Stones don’t aim at the hard core but the general public. I personally miss Bill Wyman and would miss Charlie but to most folks it won’t matter. The Stones are a legacy act spectacle these days - a very good - one but that’s it. If you think how snarky some of the ‘hard core’ get when criticising the last few albums and many other Stones activities, it’s not surprising that the band don’t take the feelings of the self appointed ‘hard core’ seriously.

Re: Charlie Watts pulls out of US tour after undergoing emergency surgery
Posted by: Irix ()
Date: August 8, 2021 21:25

Quote
wonderboy

I'm a bit surprised the nature of the surgery hasn't been reported.

Maybe because the reason is too personal to talk about (e.g. a surgery "below the belt") ?

Re: Rolling Stones drummer Charlie Watts, 80, pulls out of band's US tour after undergoing emergency surgery in London
Posted by: EddieByword ()
Date: August 8, 2021 21:30

Quote
Topi
Quote
EddieByword
Quote
EddieByword
Apparently Charlie asked Steve Jordan to step in........ [www.rollingstone.com]

... “After all the fans’ suffering caused by Covid, I really do not want the many RS fans who have been holding tickets for this tour to be disappointed by another postponement or cancellation. I have therefore asked my great friend Steve Jordan to stand in for me.”

What that "statement" - of course, carefully worded by the PR dept. - doesn't say is that they could not cancel. And there was nowhere to postpone this tour anymore either.

They're also making it sound like Charlie picked Jordan, while that kind of a decision certainly had to be run by Mick and Keith at least.

Just wondering.........has anyone on this forum actually seen the contract that stipulates that the show must go on with or without Charlie?

As I say, just wondering ? .......It can obviously stop for Mick, we've seen that twice, (Heart problem and L'Wren dying)...........Stop for Keith?.....I guess so ...........

And, if it is not in the contract to stop for Charlie, that means the Stones must have signed that way, which means that it's ok with them.........

I first saw the Stones in '76 and last in '19 ......they have never disappointed so unless the whole tour is stopped because of rampant covid I guess they'll be ok next time too.

Plus, I would imagine, given that there are new unimagined covid circumstances prevailing, that could affect anyone on the tour including the crew, any old contracts would be torn up and new ones agreed. (I can't imagine the insurers agreeing to pre-covid terms for 2021.

As I say, anyone seen these new contracts first hand to allow such bold comments as to Charlie's status and his motivation?


Maybe Steve Jordan was just a no brainer for Mick, Keith and Charlie once Charlie told them what was going on with him but Charlie picked up the phone as it was his position that required the under study (As SJ put it)...............



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2021-08-08 21:36 by EddieByword.

Re: Charlie Watts pulls out of US tour after undergoing emergency surgery
Posted by: Hairball ()
Date: August 8, 2021 21:36

Quote
Irix
Quote
wonderboy

I'm a bit surprised the nature of the surgery hasn't been reported.

Maybe because the reason is too personal to talk about (e.g. a surgery "below the belt") ?

Whatever the case, whenever there's an emergency surgery for someone 80 years or older that results in them taking a few months off for a full recovery, I would tend to consider it major.
Could be as small as an ingrown toenail which can be a major nuisance and take time to heal, or maybe a bit more serious such as a hip or knee replacement, or maybe something even much more serious (God forbid).
The fact is, he underwent and emergency operation, and it was serious enough to sideline him from the tour as the band decided to continue on without him.

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021-08-08 21:36 by Hairball.

Re: Charlie Watts pulls out of US tour after undergoing emergency surgery
Posted by: Dougratajczak87 ()
Date: August 8, 2021 22:01

Quote
Hairball
Quote
Irix
Quote
wonderboy

I'm a bit surprised the nature of the surgery hasn't been reported.

Maybe because the reason is too personal to talk about (e.g. a surgery "below the belt") ?

Whatever the case, whenever there's an emergency surgery for someone 80 years or older that results in them taking a few months off for a full recovery, I would tend to consider it major.
Could be as small as an ingrown toenail which can be a major nuisance and take time to heal, or maybe a bit more serious such as a hip or knee replacement, or maybe something even much more serious (God forbid).
The fact is, he underwent and emergency operation, and it was serious enough to sideline him from the tour as the band decided to continue on without him.

After thinking it about this further, I’m beginning to think that maybe Charlie elected to have a surgery that was already needed to opt out of this tour (for insurance and contractual reasons). Before dismissing, let’s consider the following:

Nowhere in the announcement does it say emergency surgery [www.google.com]

Spoonful2 said that he knew about this surgery nine days prior to it being announced (announcement was August 4th or 5th) which means the Stones likely knew long before they announced rescheduled dates (about 11-12 days prior to the Steve Jordan announcement) and included Charlie in the marketing materials.

The announcement from Charlie specifically states that it’s fair to say that no one saw this coming (why even include that unless you believe people may be skeptical?)

Nobody stands to gain financially and all stand to lose substantially by not
making the dates up in 2021 (considering Europe is booked for 2022).

When considering the facts, it certainly appears that Charlie may have either opted out of this tour or out of the Stones (depending on what happens in 2022).

The important thing to consider is that they probably aren’t contractually obligated for 2022 yet, but they are on the hook for the 2020 tour and likely would need a medical reason for Charlie not to tour (to avoid facing the possibility of litigation).

Re: Charlie Watts pulls out of US tour after undergoing emergency surgery
Posted by: Bushfire ()
Date: August 8, 2021 22:15

I am so sorry for everything but I have to say I agree on so much on what you say. Sad, sad, sad.

Re: Charlie Watts pulls out of US tour after undergoing emergency surgery
Posted by: shortfatfanny ()
Date: August 8, 2021 22:17

Maybe they should call it

The Glimmer Twins Honk Tour

[youtu.be]


Re: Rolling Stones drummer Charlie Watts, 80, pulls out of band's US tour after undergoing emergency surgery in London
Posted by: Topi ()
Date: August 8, 2021 22:18

Quote
EddieByword


Just wondering.........has anyone on this forum actually seen the contract that stipulates that the show must go on with or without Charlie?

- - -

And, if it is not in the contract to stop for Charlie, that means the Stones must have signed that way, which means that it's ok with them.........

- -

As I say, anyone seen these new contracts first hand to allow such bold comments as to Charlie's status and his motivation?



Haven't seen any new contracts obviously but I remember the 2014 court documents, at least excerpts of them, and already back then it was revealed their insurance did not cover Charlie's absence; he could be replaced. Trust me, I remember that very well. I wanna say it was discussed on here as well but maybe that thread has since been deleted.

I don't know what you mean by Charlie's "status and his motivation". I for one haven't talked about either.

And of course all four members have signed off on those contracts. In the end, it means insurance cost savings.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021-08-08 22:20 by Topi.

Re: Charlie Watts pulls out of US tour after undergoing emergency surgery
Posted by: Hairball ()
Date: August 8, 2021 22:32

Quote
Dougratajczak87
Nowhere in the announcement does it say emergency surgery

You're right, but it's in the title of this thread, and it's in the first sentence of the first paragraph of the first post which was taken from the first article posted in this thread.
Granted it's taken from the Daily Mail tabloid which can tend to overblow/exaggerate things ala the National Enquirer, but that's what it said.

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021-08-08 22:35 by Hairball.

Re: Charlie Watts pulls out of US tour after undergoing emergency surgery
Posted by: TumblinDice76 ()
Date: August 8, 2021 22:39

This is kind of the Bad MOJO tour.

Re: Charlie Watts pulls out of US tour after undergoing emergency surgery
Posted by: Topi ()
Date: August 8, 2021 22:39

Oh, you bet the Daily Fail is going to exaggerate a headline, Hairball.

Re: Charlie Watts pulls out of US tour after undergoing emergency surgery
Posted by: Hairball ()
Date: August 8, 2021 22:44

Quote
TumblinDice76
This is kind of the Bad MOJO tour.

Yeah...the first postponement, then the Charlie announcement right after rescheduling, now the Jazz fest cancellation... dark clouds everywhere...things are seemingly getting bleaker by the day.

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

Re: Charlie Watts pulls out of US tour after undergoing emergency surgery
Posted by: spikenyc ()
Date: August 8, 2021 23:04

Its disappointing but not surprising.
I expect a domino effect for other shows and acts to follow.

So when does the "No-Covid" tour start now?

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