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brown sugar studio guitar
Posted by: frenchstones33 ()
Date: August 2, 2021 02:00

in your opinion .
what guitar keith uses on the studio version of brown sugar.
I'm talking about the first intro guitar.
my candidates are:
gibson es 355 1969 walnut
gibson es 330
dan armstrong lucite 1969
gibson lespaul custom 3 pu

if we go by what jimmy johnson described.
the guitar is black with a double cutaway.
for me it's the 355.
the les paul custom is really black but does not have a double cutaway.
but it was tuned in open g during tour 69.
i don't think it's the dan armstrong.
or maybe the gibson es 330. while listening again I sometimes have the impression that it is a pickup p90 .....
not easy
it's up to you to vote !!!!!

Re: brown sugar studio guitar
Posted by: exil ()
Date: August 2, 2021 06:50

I allways througt it was a sg gibson.Read it so were.

Re: brown sugar studio guitar
Posted by: erad ()
Date: August 2, 2021 07:14

I thought Jagger played the main rhythm part on the studio version?

Re: brown sugar studio guitar
Posted by: terraplane ()
Date: August 2, 2021 07:56

To me it sounds more like an SG but it could be anything with EQing

Re: brown sugar studio guitar
Date: August 2, 2021 08:10

Quote
erad
I thought Jagger played the main rhythm part on the studio version?

Jagger is not playing on the studio version.

Re: brown sugar studio guitar
Posted by: Mathijs ()
Date: August 2, 2021 12:15

Quote
frenchstones33
in your opinion .
what guitar keith uses on the studio version of brown sugar.
I'm talking about the first intro guitar.
my candidates are:
gibson es 355 1969 walnut
gibson es 330
dan armstrong lucite 1969
gibson lespaul custom 3 pu

if we go by what jimmy johnson described.
the guitar is black with a double cutaway.
for me it's the 355.
the les paul custom is really black but does not have a double cutaway.
but it was tuned in open g during tour 69.
i don't think it's the dan armstrong.
or maybe the gibson es 330. while listening again I sometimes have the impression that it is a pickup p90 .....
not easy
it's up to you to vote !!!!!

Jimmy Johnson stated a black SG, but the Stones never owned a black SG, and in 1969 a black SG was exceedingly rare. They could have used Taylor's SG, but it would be hell to keep that in tune with 5 strings and a Bigsby.

From the guitars owned by the Stones in 1969 only the Gibson Custom LP and the Dan Armstrong are true contenders in my opinion. To me the sound is fairly gritty, something I associate more with the Dan Armstrong than with the LP Custom.

Mathijs

Re: brown sugar studio guitar
Posted by: 5strings ()
Date: August 2, 2021 12:32

It sounds more like a Gibson Les Paul custom,clear sound and neck pickup with a little reverb on.

Re: brown sugar studio guitar
Posted by: john lomax ()
Date: August 2, 2021 12:39

My guess is its the black les paul custom. He used this guitar live in 1969 forn5 string songs such as Jumping Jack Flash, and si, as the town Sugar riff is on 5 string, I think its the Custom. Also, the riff has that deep full sound tha Custom has, whereas the Dan Armstrong is a bit thinner/harsher (ie more of a single.coil.soind). But this is all just my.guess....

Re: brown sugar studio guitar
Posted by: StonedRambler ()
Date: August 2, 2021 13:24

Quote

It was a Gibson, but not a Les Paul. I think it was a SG, and as I recall it was black. I remember it had those sharp horns on the cutaways. That's what he played most of the time he was here.
[tapeop.com]

Re: brown sugar studio guitar
Date: August 2, 2021 13:30

My guess is the Dan Armstrong. He used that one in 1970-1971 on Brown Sugar, and the sound is pretty similar (especially the licks between the riffing). The gritty sound always gets a little cleaner in the studio on recordings.





[www.youtube.com]

Re: brown sugar studio guitar
Posted by: Mathijs ()
Date: August 2, 2021 14:05

Quote
DandelionPowderman
My guess is the Dan Armstrong. He used that one in 1970-1971 on Brown Sugar, and the sound is pretty similar (especially the licks between the riffing). The gritty sound always gets a little cleaner in the studio on recordings.





[www.youtube.com]

I agree. However, I think the only guitar from the Muscle Shoals sessions is Keith's main open G guitar driving the song. Taylor was erased completely, and all other guitars sound like overdubs from early 1970 by Keith. For the overdubs without he doubt he would have used the Armstrong, as this guitar appears to be his absolute favorite.

Mathijs

Re: brown sugar studio guitar
Posted by: dcba ()
Date: August 2, 2021 17:24

Noob post but with a Fender Twin pushed to 10 any "double-coil" guitar would sound alike, no?

Re: brown sugar studio guitar
Posted by: Mathijs ()
Date: August 2, 2021 17:29

Quote
dcba
Noob post but with a Fender Twin pushed to 10 any "double-coil" guitar would sound alike, no?

Yes. In fact, any amp pushed hard will make guitars sound very alike. It likely will make a difference to the player, but for listeners it will be hard to distinguish a certain guitar.

Mathijs

Re: brown sugar studio guitar
Posted by: TravelinMan ()
Date: August 2, 2021 18:33

Quote
Mathijs
Quote
DandelionPowderman
My guess is the Dan Armstrong. He used that one in 1970-1971 on Brown Sugar, and the sound is pretty similar (especially the licks between the riffing). The gritty sound always gets a little cleaner in the studio on recordings.





[www.youtube.com]

I agree. However, I think the only guitar from the Muscle Shoals sessions is Keith's main open G guitar driving the song. Taylor was erased completely, and all other guitars sound like overdubs from early 1970 by Keith. For the overdubs without he doubt he would have used the Armstrong, as this guitar appears to be his absolute favorite.

Mathijs

Somebody could write a paper on the recording of Brown Sugar. There are quite a few different versions out there to compare and contrast.

The thing that struck me is Jimmy Johnson saying the released version wasn’t too much different than the one they had recorded in Alabama.

Off the top of my head:

1- Gimme Shelter movie where Richards has a solo
2- Mick Taylor solo and outro version which sounds like a Strat. Also has arpeggios
3- Similar version to 2 I believe, but can’t recall exactly
4- Clapton version which is totally different material
5- Final released Sticky Fingers version

Re: brown sugar studio guitar
Date: August 2, 2021 18:37

Quote
TravelinMan
Quote
Mathijs
Quote
DandelionPowderman
My guess is the Dan Armstrong. He used that one in 1970-1971 on Brown Sugar, and the sound is pretty similar (especially the licks between the riffing). The gritty sound always gets a little cleaner in the studio on recordings.





[www.youtube.com]

I agree. However, I think the only guitar from the Muscle Shoals sessions is Keith's main open G guitar driving the song. Taylor was erased completely, and all other guitars sound like overdubs from early 1970 by Keith. For the overdubs without he doubt he would have used the Armstrong, as this guitar appears to be his absolute favorite.

Mathijs

Somebody could write a paper on the recording of Brown Sugar. There are quite a few different versions out there to compare and contrast.

The thing that struck me is Jimmy Johnson saying the released version wasn’t too much different than the one they had recorded in Alabama.

Off the top of my head:

1- Gimme Shelter movie where Richards has a solo
2- Mick Taylor solo and outro version which sounds like a Strat. Also has arpeggios
3- Similar version to 2 I believe, but can’t recall exactly
4- Clapton version which is totally different material
5- Final released Sticky Fingers version

The arpeggios in the bridge were played by Keith, methinks. On that version Taylor played the third electric guitar (a Strat?).

Re: brown sugar studio guitar
Posted by: TravelinMan ()
Date: August 2, 2021 20:08

Quote
DandelionPowderman
Quote
TravelinMan
Quote
Mathijs
Quote
DandelionPowderman
My guess is the Dan Armstrong. He used that one in 1970-1971 on Brown Sugar, and the sound is pretty similar (especially the licks between the riffing). The gritty sound always gets a little cleaner in the studio on recordings.





[www.youtube.com]

I agree. However, I think the only guitar from the Muscle Shoals sessions is Keith's main open G guitar driving the song. Taylor was erased completely, and all other guitars sound like overdubs from early 1970 by Keith. For the overdubs without he doubt he would have used the Armstrong, as this guitar appears to be his absolute favorite.

Mathijs

Somebody could write a paper on the recording of Brown Sugar. There are quite a few different versions out there to compare and contrast.

The thing that struck me is Jimmy Johnson saying the released version wasn’t too much different than the one they had recorded in Alabama.

Off the top of my head:

1- Gimme Shelter movie where Richards has a solo
2- Mick Taylor solo and outro version which sounds like a Strat. Also has arpeggios
3- Similar version to 2 I believe, but can’t recall exactly
4- Clapton version which is totally different material
5- Final released Sticky Fingers version

The arpeggios in the bridge were played by Keith, methinks. On that version Taylor played the third electric guitar (a Strat?).

Yeah I’m thinking a Strat, it sounds like one plus Johnson said Taylor played one during the recording. The solo/outro is hard to tell if was recorded in Alabama or in England later on though. There just isn’t a lot to go on unfortunately.

Re: brown sugar studio guitar
Posted by: TravelinMan ()
Date: August 2, 2021 20:33

Arpeggio version:

But listen to the lick at around 3:12 on the right channel. That sounds like a Taylor lick to me. It’s almost like he’s trying to sound like Richards. This is before the overdubbed solo comes in.

At 3:00 it sounds like Richards in the right channel. Weird

*I should say I muted the left channel to hear it clearly.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2021-08-02 20:36 by TravelinMan.

Re: brown sugar studio guitar
Date: August 2, 2021 21:13

Quote
TravelinMan
Arpeggio version:

But listen to the lick at around 3:12 on the right channel. That sounds like a Taylor lick to me. It’s almost like he’s trying to sound like Richards. This is before the overdubbed solo comes in.

At 3:00 it sounds like Richards in the right channel. Weird

*I should say I muted the left channel to hear it clearly.

I thought the exact same thing earlier, but eventually I concluded with that it has to be Keith. They only had 8 tracks.

Re: brown sugar studio guitar
Date: August 2, 2021 21:28

Quote
TravelinMan
Arpeggio version:

But listen to the lick at around 3:12 on the right channel. That sounds like a Taylor lick to me. It’s almost like he’s trying to sound like Richards. This is before the overdubbed solo comes in.

At 3:00 it sounds like Richards in the right channel. Weird

*I should say I muted the left channel to hear it clearly.

I assume you're talking about the studio version? I don't hear Mick Taylor on it. All the fills and rhythm guitar(s) have a certain stiff approach. Taylor was a much more fluid, harmonical and melodic player; in a way that Keith never could deliver. That's not around on the studio track at all . For some reason they didn't give Taylor room in the studio, although he played splendid on brown sugar live versions even before the official track was released. So if you want to enjoy Taylor better listen to the (BS) live versions when he still was a member of the band. At least I like the live versions with Taylor better than the -to my ears- rather one dimensional pre - arranged studio track.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2021-08-02 22:16 by TheflyingDutchman.

Re: brown sugar studio guitar
Posted by: OpenG ()
Date: August 2, 2021 21:37

[www.youtube.com]

No mystery here sound MT is playing a Strat from what I can tell - that guitar phrasing so good.

Re: brown sugar studio guitar
Posted by: TravelinMan ()
Date: August 2, 2021 23:18

Quote
TheflyingDutchman
Quote
TravelinMan
Arpeggio version:

But listen to the lick at around 3:12 on the right channel. That sounds like a Taylor lick to me. It’s almost like he’s trying to sound like Richards. This is before the overdubbed solo comes in.

At 3:00 it sounds like Richards in the right channel. Weird

*I should say I muted the left channel to hear it clearly.

I assume you're talking about the studio version? I don't hear Mick Taylor on it. All the fills and rhythm guitar(s) have a certain stiff approach. Taylor was a much more fluid, harmonical and melodic player; in a way that Keith never could deliver. That's not around on the studio track at all . For some reason they didn't give Taylor room in the studio, although he played splendid on brown sugar live versions even before the official track was released. So if you want to enjoy Taylor better listen to the (BS) live versions when he still was a member of the band. At least I like the live versions with Taylor better than the -to my ears- rather one dimensional pre - arranged studio track.

No not the Sticky Fingers version:






Right channel around 3:12. That sounds like quintessential Taylor playing. The lead guitar overdub comes in soon after.

Re: brown sugar studio guitar
Date: August 2, 2021 23:47

Quote
TravelinMan
Quote
TheflyingDutchman
Quote
TravelinMan
Arpeggio version:

But listen to the lick at around 3:12 on the right channel. That sounds like a Taylor lick to me. It’s almost like he’s trying to sound like Richards. This is before the overdubbed solo comes in.

At 3:00 it sounds like Richards in the right channel. Weird

*I should say I muted the left channel to hear it clearly.

I assume you're talking about the studio version? I don't hear Mick Taylor on it. All the fills and rhythm guitar(s) have a certain stiff approach. Taylor was a much more fluid, harmonical and melodic player; in a way that Keith never could deliver. That's not around on the studio track at all . For some reason they didn't give Taylor room in the studio, although he played splendid on brown sugar live versions even before the official track was released. So if you want to enjoy Taylor better listen to the (BS) live versions when he still was a member of the band. At least I like the live versions with Taylor better than the -to my ears- rather one dimensional pre - arranged studio track.

No not the Sticky Fingers version:






Right channel around 3:12. That sounds like quintessential Taylor playing. The lead guitar overdub comes in soon after.

If that's Mick Taylor on lead guitar at 3:12 and onwards he sucks big time here. Be it Keith with a quasi vibrato or Taylor: very good they wiped it. Gimme the real thing please: Essen 1970:







Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021-08-02 23:50 by TheflyingDutchman.

Re: brown sugar studio guitar
Posted by: TravelinMan ()
Date: August 3, 2021 00:11

Mick Taylor plays the solo in the middle and the outro. Sounds like a Strat being overdubbed.

We’re talking about the guitar in the right channel that plays the arpeggios. There is a lick at 3:12 that sounds like a Taylor lick, you can’t hear it very well unless you mute the left channel because the left is much louder.

Re: brown sugar studio guitar
Date: August 3, 2021 00:23

I like the idea of the arpeggios a lot, not so much the way it is recorded. A bit out of tune, or too thin.

Re: brown sugar studio guitar
Posted by: Rockman ()
Date: August 3, 2021 01:02

Its a wonder one of them
there interviewers like Jas Obrecht
hasnt cornered Keith on this one .......



ROCKMAN

Re: brown sugar studio guitar
Posted by: frenchstones33 ()
Date: August 3, 2021 02:13

Totally agree with TheflyingDutchman
it's keith who plays the two electric guitars on brown sugar on sticky.
when you listen to the alternate version no doubt it's taylor.
keith overdubbed the second guitar at the olympic studio in 1970 for the sticky fingers version.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021-08-03 02:24 by frenchstones33.

Re: brown sugar studio guitar
Posted by: Mathijs ()
Date: August 3, 2021 11:11

Taylor plays the tremolo picked guitar pattern, focusing on the high notes, He played the same chording and tremelo picking on Altamont and the 1970's versions, and sometimes live in 1972 as well (Philly for example). His guitar was fully erased in early 1970, and Keith overdubbed all electric guitars, which are like 5 or 6 tracks in total. I think the main reason is that Taylor's part is really 'on' the 1, whereas Keith is playing with the timing very much to give it this push and pull and RnR feel.

I doubt Taylor used a Strat at Muscle Shoals. I don't know if he actually had one in 1969, but he favored a Tele in 1969/1970 for studio work (Jiving Sister Fanny, Hillside Blues, Stop Breaking Down, I Don't Know Why etc), and there are pics of him with a Tele at Muscle Shoals.

Mathijs

Re: brown sugar studio guitar
Date: August 3, 2021 12:35

Of course that's Taylor. The way he recorded it sounds a bit shaky; the idea is good.

Re: brown sugar studio guitar
Posted by: TravelinMan ()
Date: August 3, 2021 14:22

Quote
Mathijs
Taylor plays the tremolo picked guitar pattern, focusing on the high notes, He played the same chording and tremelo picking on Altamont and the 1970's versions, and sometimes live in 1972 as well (Philly for example). His guitar was fully erased in early 1970, and Keith overdubbed all electric guitars, which are like 5 or 6 tracks in total. I think the main reason is that Taylor's part is really 'on' the 1, whereas Keith is playing with the timing very much to give it this push and pull and RnR feel.

I doubt Taylor used a Strat at Muscle Shoals. I don't know if he actually had one in 1969, but he favored a Tele in 1969/1970 for studio work (Jiving Sister Fanny, Hillside Blues, Stop Breaking Down, I Don't Know Why etc), and there are pics of him with a Tele at Muscle Shoals.

Mathijs

It could have been the studio’s Strat. I wasn’t aware of pics with a Tele. What did he use on Gotta Move?

So was that just a working mix? What does Taylor play on the Gimme Shelter version? And is the Gimme Shelter version the one that was released by accident?

Re: brown sugar studio guitar
Date: August 3, 2021 14:43

It seems about a hundred years ago.

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