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No..my comment was not that he overplayed, but that it was the 'thing' in late 60s-early 70s for a virtuoso guitar playing...thats what the crowd wanted...and "normal" to a degree.
For those who think Taylor overplayed, obviously were not in the crowd during the concerts back then
He noodled a lot in 1973 compared to previous tours. Jagger did sound closer to 1975 than 1972 overall. Honky Tonk Women and JJF from BRUSSELS are perfect examples and are awful. Listen to Dancing With Mr D and those two, it's amazing they're from the same tour.
Just out of curiosity, how many 1973 shows have you heard?
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021-03-31 17:06 by Taylor1.
I agree on the Brussels performance and the boots -it doesn't get much better than that. But, the second show for some reason is magical, and the excellent mixed and enhanced sound from the radio broadcast really help. But you cannot judge the 1973 tour by this document alone -there were several really sloppy and low energy shows, with Taylor bored stiff and just noodling along.
Mathijs
It baffles me that you don't hear the difference, both in energy and quality between those shows.
More power to you, then
That's easy. Ronnie didn't make the setlists.
I think you call it right there Mathis, your second paragraph.
I saw two Sale Court Zeppelin shows in 75 and they may have been about 2-2.5 hrs long. But ALL music - no props. And no popcorn!! And I have no idea whatTheremin is. The drum solo might have been 15 mins max.
With regard to my first response to you, my point was that you ( or anyone) might prefer Keith's playing in '75 to that of '73, or ditto Charlie, but it's not about individuals it's about the band (and preferably less props and popcorn) - which is how and why 73 scores so highly.
The first 75 boot I heard, vinyl, coloured I think, double?, was later that same year.
A Sunday performance somewhere. Jagger asks audience 'Did anyone go to church today's and then to Billy. Anyway, hugely disappointing after the 73 gig. Just rather casual. The only plus point I remember is Keith doing some unexpected wah-wah stuff on JJ Flash. Wish he did that more often!
Cheers
Not that impressed by LAForum either. People rave about that.
The set hardly changed!
That was my point. Ronnie was eager to play those 150 songs he'd learned, but since he didn't make the setlists, he only got play about 30 during the entire tour. If he'd had more input to the choice of songs, maybe they'd played at least double that. Or so I like to think
Haha!
We really know 30 seemed like 150 to Ol' Ronnie at the time!
You refer to a NYC version. What's amazing with these lads is that by the time the tour landed in L.A. 3 weeks later the version of SFTD were close to perfection...
It's quite obvious that they had stage monitor problems at that Sympathy with Eric Clapton. Jagger would never mess up like that if it wasn't for that.
But meanwhile this is an interesting thread, I don't agree that the tour got worse. Atlanta, Jacksonville, Chicago for instance.....they're absolutely amazing, IMO. But the early shows are quite different, so it's a matter of taste. The main difference, I would say, is Jagger's singing, and that they got more decadent and loose as the tour progressed.
In them very early shows, like Kansas City, Jagger is sounding almost like 1973, but you couldn't say that about the later shows.
Conclusion is that in 1969 and 1972 they got tighter and tighter, in 1975 they got...rawer and more dirty. 1973 is up and down all the way, for several reasons....Keith's shape, Taylor's bigger role, among other things
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2021-04-02 18:47 by Erik_Snow.
That exact show is the absolute worst show of 1975. It's like the Cleveland 1978 show of TOTA.
The whole Australian tour is brilliant, it's like a 2nd part of the 1972 tour.
It's the European Tour that has big highs, but also some lows. The 2 first Bern shows and Manchester are among the weakest ones. But also, as Mathijs pointed out, Munich, Hamburg and first Frankfurt gives the impression of a band that has no fun.
The video comes from July 11th (or 12th), while the CD comes from July 13th. And the CD features an excellent gig. Allthough my favourite of the LA stand is the July 9th show.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021-04-02 22:01 by Erik_Snow.
Absolutely. The Toronto show is outstanding. High energy and great performance with Mick being at the top of his game which could rarely be said about him later in the tour. The show was obviously recorded. Too bad the rest of the show (besides the bootleg) hasn't seen the light of day other than the LYL songs
not really. 78 and 81 had less spectacle than 75.
plexi
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Re: 1975 Tour Legacy. What Happened?
Posted by:
Eleanor Rigby
()
Date: March 31, 2021 16:27
Quote
Taylor1
This idea that Taylor overplayed on the 1973 tour is nonsense.It was superb.And where is the evidence they were playing longer shows in 1975 to compensate for Taylor.If anything Jagger over sings and overgrunts on record and in concert in 1973
No..my comment was not that he overplayed, but that it was the 'thing' in late 60s-early 70s for a virtuoso guitar playing...thats what the crowd wanted...and "normal" to a degree.
For those who think Taylor overplayed, obviously were not in the crowd during the concerts back then
Re: 1975 Tour Legacy. What Happened?
Posted by:
GasLightStreet
()
Date: March 31, 2021 16:36
Quote
Taylor1
This idea that Taylor overplayed on the 1973 tour is nonsense.It was superb.And where is the evidence they were playing longer shows in 1975 to compensate for Taylor.If anything Jagger over sings and overgrunts on record and in concert in 1973
He noodled a lot in 1973 compared to previous tours. Jagger did sound closer to 1975 than 1972 overall. Honky Tonk Women and JJF from BRUSSELS are perfect examples and are awful. Listen to Dancing With Mr D and those two, it's amazing they're from the same tour.
Re: 1975 Tour Legacy. What Happened?
Posted by:
Taylor1
()
Date: March 31, 2021 16:49
He hardly plays on JJ Flash Brussels .I barely hear him in it till the end.It’s all Keith.The Brussels performances of You Can’t Always Get What You Want,(which by the way,Trevor Lawrence takes a much longer solo than Taylor), Midnight Rambler, Angie, Rip This Joint, and Street Fighting Man are the greatest they ever did live
Re: 1975 Tour Legacy. What Happened?
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: March 31, 2021 16:59
Quote
Taylor1
He hardly plays on JJ Flash Brussels .I barely hear him in it till the end.It’s all Keith.The Brussels performances of You Can’t Always Get What You Want,(which by the way,Trevor Lawrence takes a much longer solo than Taylor), Midnight Rambler, Angie, Rip This Joint, and Street Fighting Man are the greatest they ever did live
Just out of curiosity, how many 1973 shows have you heard?
Re: 1975 Tour Legacy. What Happened?
Posted by:
Taylor1
()
Date: March 31, 2021 17:05
I have every bootleg from the 1973 Tour.I think that covers almost every show.And most have bad sound like they were recorded from a cassette player in the audience.But the musicianship is superb.Much better than the mostly weak performances from 2003 and on.And this is no a knock on the Wood era.I think they were great in 1975,1978,1981 and especially 1989-1990Quote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
Taylor1
He hardly plays on JJ Flash Brussels .I barely hear him in it till the end.It’s all Keith.The Brussels performances of You Can’t Always Get What You Want,(which by the way,Trevor Lawrence takes a much longer solo than Taylor), Midnight Rambler, Angie, Rip This Joint, and Street Fighting Man are the greatest they ever did live
Just out of curiosity, how many 1973 shows have you heard?
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021-03-31 17:06 by Taylor1.
Re: 1975 Tour Legacy. What Happened?
Posted by:
Mathijs
()
Date: March 31, 2021 17:17
Quote
Taylor1
He hardly plays on JJ Flash Brussels .I barely hear him in it till the end.It’s all Keith.The Brussels performances of You Can’t Always Get What You Want,(which by the way,Trevor Lawrence takes a much longer solo than Taylor), Midnight Rambler, Angie, Rip This Joint, and Street Fighting Man are the greatest they ever did live
I agree on the Brussels performance and the boots -it doesn't get much better than that. But, the second show for some reason is magical, and the excellent mixed and enhanced sound from the radio broadcast really help. But you cannot judge the 1973 tour by this document alone -there were several really sloppy and low energy shows, with Taylor bored stiff and just noodling along.
Mathijs
Re: 1975 Tour Legacy. What Happened?
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: March 31, 2021 17:32
Quote
Taylor1I have every bootleg from the 1973 Tour.I think that covers almost every show.And most have bad sound like they were recorded from a cassette player in the audience.But the musicianship is superb.Much better than the mostly weak performances from 2003 and on.And this is no a knock on the Wood era.I think they were great in 1975,1978,1981 and especially 1989-1990Quote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
Taylor1
He hardly plays on JJ Flash Brussels .I barely hear him in it till the end.It’s all Keith.The Brussels performances of You Can’t Always Get What You Want,(which by the way,Trevor Lawrence takes a much longer solo than Taylor), Midnight Rambler, Angie, Rip This Joint, and Street Fighting Man are the greatest they ever did live
Just out of curiosity, how many 1973 shows have you heard?
It baffles me that you don't hear the difference, both in energy and quality between those shows.
More power to you, then
Re: 1975 Tour Legacy. What Happened?
Posted by:
filstan
()
Date: March 31, 2021 17:55
The 75 tour was more in the entertainment vein than previous tours. Lotus stage, inflatable phallus etc. Music though was really good, although I did not like Billy Preston getting the spotlight. It was unusual at that time to see the Rolling Stones as a backing band for another front man. Ronnie filled in admirably. Both Chicago Stadium shows I attended were excellent as was the Ft Collins Colorado outdoor gig with the infamous Elton John snafu.
It was still the rockin Rolling Stones on stage in 1975, and they did not disappoint this fan at all. I was 22 at the time and that was my 4th tour where I had attended Stones concerts.
It was still the rockin Rolling Stones on stage in 1975, and they did not disappoint this fan at all. I was 22 at the time and that was my 4th tour where I had attended Stones concerts.
Re: 1975 Tour Legacy. What Happened?
Posted by:
ryanpow
()
Date: March 31, 2021 19:00
Re: JJF, I think it was Kick-Ass in 72-73. I'm not so into how they did in in 75 with the sped up drumming parts. It was a nice return to form in '78.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021-03-31 19:01 by ryanpow.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021-03-31 19:01 by ryanpow.
Re: 1975 Tour Legacy. What Happened?
Posted by:
GhostTown2021
()
Date: March 31, 2021 21:54
Quote
TravelinMan
I wasn’t criticizing him, I was cutting him some slack. He didn’t have a lot of time. I just want to know why they didn’t play the other 120 or so songs he claimed to learn!
That's easy. Ronnie didn't make the setlists.
Re: 1975 Tour Legacy. What Happened?
Posted by:
Four Stone Walls
()
Date: April 1, 2021 00:31
Quote
MathijsQuote
dcba
I agree. Imho in 75 the band (or Mick?) made one mistake : thinking they had to compensate for the loss of MT by playing much longer gigs.That led to gigs that sometimes lacked some energy (the punishing tour schedule didn't help...).
2Hrs top was more than enough for me. Leave the silly live marathons to Yes or Led Balloon.
They were just following the trend of the mid-70's -everybody was playing much longer than before. Zep was playing 4 hour shows, with half hour drum solo's and half hour Theremin bullshit...
The music industry simply became much more an entertainment industry instead of the art form it was before. People paid more for tickets, and expected to be entertained and get value. They started selling popcorn and soda in the isles of the 1975 shows!
Mathijs
I think you call it right there Mathis, your second paragraph.
I saw two Sale Court Zeppelin shows in 75 and they may have been about 2-2.5 hrs long. But ALL music - no props. And no popcorn!! And I have no idea whatTheremin is. The drum solo might have been 15 mins max.
With regard to my first response to you, my point was that you ( or anyone) might prefer Keith's playing in '75 to that of '73, or ditto Charlie, but it's not about individuals it's about the band (and preferably less props and popcorn) - which is how and why 73 scores so highly.
The first 75 boot I heard, vinyl, coloured I think, double?, was later that same year.
A Sunday performance somewhere. Jagger asks audience 'Did anyone go to church today's and then to Billy. Anyway, hugely disappointing after the 73 gig. Just rather casual. The only plus point I remember is Keith doing some unexpected wah-wah stuff on JJ Flash. Wish he did that more often!
Cheers
Not that impressed by LAForum either. People rave about that.
Re: 1975 Tour Legacy. What Happened?
Posted by:
TravelinMan
()
Date: April 1, 2021 01:51
Quote
GhostTown2021Quote
TravelinMan
I wasn’t criticizing him, I was cutting him some slack. He didn’t have a lot of time. I just want to know why they didn’t play the other 120 or so songs he claimed to learn!
That's easy. Ronnie didn't make the setlists.
The set hardly changed!
Re: 1975 Tour Legacy. What Happened?
Posted by:
GhostTown2021
()
Date: April 1, 2021 06:30
Quote
TravelinManQuote
GhostTown2021Quote
TravelinMan
I wasn’t criticizing him, I was cutting him some slack. He didn’t have a lot of time. I just want to know why they didn’t play the other 120 or so songs he claimed to learn!
That's easy. Ronnie didn't make the setlists.
The set hardly changed!
That was my point. Ronnie was eager to play those 150 songs he'd learned, but since he didn't make the setlists, he only got play about 30 during the entire tour. If he'd had more input to the choice of songs, maybe they'd played at least double that. Or so I like to think
Re: 1975 Tour Legacy. What Happened?
Posted by:
Father Ted
()
Date: April 1, 2021 15:03
I absolutely love Keith's funky bass on the SFTD they do with Clapton on this tour. But Jagger completely misses his cues and muffs up the entire vocal.
This was a band capable of hitting extreme highs and lows simultaneously in the same song. No easy feat!
This was a band capable of hitting extreme highs and lows simultaneously in the same song. No easy feat!
Re: 1975 Tour Legacy. What Happened?
Posted by:
TheGreek
()
Date: April 1, 2021 21:41
That is exactly why we love them so much as the can be mere mortals at times like everyone else .Quote
Father Ted
I absolutely love Keith's funky bass on the SFTD they do with Clapton on this tour. But Jagger completely misses his cues and muffs up the entire vocal.
This was a band capable of hitting extreme highs and lows simultaneously in the same song. No easy feat!
Re: 1975 Tour Legacy. What Happened?
Posted by:
TravelinMan
()
Date: April 2, 2021 07:46
Quote
GhostTown2021Quote
TravelinManQuote
GhostTown2021Quote
TravelinMan
I wasn’t criticizing him, I was cutting him some slack. He didn’t have a lot of time. I just want to know why they didn’t play the other 120 or so songs he claimed to learn!
That's easy. Ronnie didn't make the setlists.
The set hardly changed!
That was my point. Ronnie was eager to play those 150 songs he'd learned, but since he didn't make the setlists, he only got play about 30 during the entire tour. If he'd had more input to the choice of songs, maybe they'd played at least double that. Or so I like to think
Haha!
We really know 30 seemed like 150 to Ol' Ronnie at the time!
Re: 1975 Tour Legacy. What Happened?
Posted by:
Rockman
()
Date: April 2, 2021 08:21
Dem flared leather pants
musta weighed dose guitar players down ....
ROCKMAN
musta weighed dose guitar players down ....
ROCKMAN
Re: 1975 Tour Legacy. What Happened?
Posted by:
TheGreek
()
Date: April 2, 2021 13:08
and made them hot and uncomfortable as wellQuote
Rockman
Dem flared leather pants
musta weighed dose guitar players down ....
Re: 1975 Tour Legacy. What Happened?
Posted by:
dcba
()
Date: April 2, 2021 15:39
Quote
Father Ted
I absolutely love Keith's funky bass on the SFTD they do with Clapton on this tour. But Jagger completely misses his cues and muffs up the entire vocal.
You refer to a NYC version. What's amazing with these lads is that by the time the tour landed in L.A. 3 weeks later the version of SFTD were close to perfection...
Re: 1975 Tour Legacy. What Happened?
Posted by:
Erik_Snow
()
Date: April 2, 2021 16:33
Quote
dcbaQuote
Father Ted
I absolutely love Keith's funky bass on the SFTD they do with Clapton on this tour. But Jagger completely misses his cues and muffs up the entire vocal.
You refer to a NYC version. What's amazing with these lads is that by the time the tour landed in L.A. 3 weeks later the version of SFTD were close to perfection...
It's quite obvious that they had stage monitor problems at that Sympathy with Eric Clapton. Jagger would never mess up like that if it wasn't for that.
But meanwhile this is an interesting thread, I don't agree that the tour got worse. Atlanta, Jacksonville, Chicago for instance.....they're absolutely amazing, IMO. But the early shows are quite different, so it's a matter of taste. The main difference, I would say, is Jagger's singing, and that they got more decadent and loose as the tour progressed.
In them very early shows, like Kansas City, Jagger is sounding almost like 1973, but you couldn't say that about the later shows.
Conclusion is that in 1969 and 1972 they got tighter and tighter, in 1975 they got...rawer and more dirty. 1973 is up and down all the way, for several reasons....Keith's shape, Taylor's bigger role, among other things
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2021-04-02 18:47 by Erik_Snow.
Re: 1975 Tour Legacy. What Happened?
Posted by:
Four Stone Walls
()
Date: April 2, 2021 21:25
This isn't a 73 versus 75 thread, granted.
But by complete coincidence yesterday Youtube first threw at me some press footage of their time in Melbourne, 73. It shows the whole of Brown Sugar.
Keith is in fine flowing control from start to finish. It 's his band and he's in musical control.
Later yesterday it threw an LA Forum excerpt at me. Three songs, the first being Happy.
Keith is SO wasted, he's doing ok on rhythm but struggles to get to the mike for the chorus and even for some of the verses. Mick is having to help him out,; a real effort for Keith to raise his vocal presence.
Such a shame.
We know the reason.H ow the mighty had fallen.
Thank goodness for 1977 and Toronto. And for Meg Paterson. R.I.P. ( believe).
.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2021-04-02 21:30 by Four Stone Walls.
But by complete coincidence yesterday Youtube first threw at me some press footage of their time in Melbourne, 73. It shows the whole of Brown Sugar.
Keith is in fine flowing control from start to finish. It 's his band and he's in musical control.
Later yesterday it threw an LA Forum excerpt at me. Three songs, the first being Happy.
Keith is SO wasted, he's doing ok on rhythm but struggles to get to the mike for the chorus and even for some of the verses. Mick is having to help him out,; a real effort for Keith to raise his vocal presence.
Such a shame.
We know the reason.H ow the mighty had fallen.
Thank goodness for 1977 and Toronto. And for Meg Paterson. R.I.P. ( believe).
.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2021-04-02 21:30 by Four Stone Walls.
Re: 1975 Tour Legacy. What Happened?
Posted by:
Four Stone Walls
()
Date: April 2, 2021 21:28
By the way Eric, which 73 shows are substandard ( relatively)?
I genuinely don't know. Though DP did once post a clip of an Austrian show late in the tour where Keith seemed wasted.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021-04-02 21:28 by Four Stone Walls.
I genuinely don't know. Though DP did once post a clip of an Austrian show late in the tour where Keith seemed wasted.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021-04-02 21:28 by Four Stone Walls.
Re: 1975 Tour Legacy. What Happened?
Posted by:
Erik_Snow
()
Date: April 2, 2021 21:28
Quote
Four Stone Walls
Later yesterday it threw an LA Forum excerpt at me. Three songs, the first being Happy's.
Keith is SO wasted, he's doing ok on rhythm but struggles to get to the mike for the chorus and even for some of the verses. Mick is having to help him out,; a real effort for Keith to raise his vocal presence.
That exact show is the absolute worst show of 1975. It's like the Cleveland 1978 show of TOTA.
Re: 1975 Tour Legacy. What Happened?
Posted by:
Erik_Snow
()
Date: April 2, 2021 21:33
Quote
Four Stone Walls
By the way Eric, which 73 shows are substandard ( relatively)?
I genuinely don't know. Though DP did once post a clip of an Austrian show late in the tour where Keith seemed wasted.
The whole Australian tour is brilliant, it's like a 2nd part of the 1972 tour.
It's the European Tour that has big highs, but also some lows. The 2 first Bern shows and Manchester are among the weakest ones. But also, as Mathijs pointed out, Munich, Hamburg and first Frankfurt gives the impression of a band that has no fun.
Re: 1975 Tour Legacy. What Happened?
Posted by:
Four Stone Walls
()
Date: April 2, 2021 21:37
But isn't LA Forum the one that gets so many plaudits, as an example of a good 75 show?
Though there was more than one show, - 3?
I have yet to hear an example of a good 75 show, though I haven't made much effort!
The Keith/Charlie combo has been severed, it seems to me, aurally.
And physically - Charlie up on some raised platform.
The stage did make a difference. Separated them physically - and as a unit I think.
Though there was more than one show, - 3?
I have yet to hear an example of a good 75 show, though I haven't made much effort!
The Keith/Charlie combo has been severed, it seems to me, aurally.
And physically - Charlie up on some raised platform.
The stage did make a difference. Separated them physically - and as a unit I think.
Re: 1975 Tour Legacy. What Happened?
Posted by:
Erik_Snow
()
Date: April 2, 2021 21:40
Quote
Four Stone Walls
But isn't LA Forum the one that gets so many plaudits, as an example of a good 75 show?
The video comes from July 11th (or 12th), while the CD comes from July 13th. And the CD features an excellent gig. Allthough my favourite of the LA stand is the July 9th show.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021-04-02 22:01 by Erik_Snow.
Re: 1975 Tour Legacy. What Happened?
Posted by:
Paul Kersey
()
Date: April 2, 2021 21:58
The Toronto 17th June show is an outstanding performance and in great audio quality on bootleg.
Re: 1975 Tour Legacy. What Happened?
Posted by:
yearsinthemaking
()
Date: April 2, 2021 22:17
Quote
Paul Kersey
The Toronto 17th June show is an outstanding performance and in great audio quality on bootleg.
Absolutely. The Toronto show is outstanding. High energy and great performance with Mick being at the top of his game which could rarely be said about him later in the tour. The show was obviously recorded. Too bad the rest of the show (besides the bootleg) hasn't seen the light of day other than the LYL songs
Re: 1975 Tour Legacy. What Happened?
Posted by:
Paul Kersey
()
Date: April 2, 2021 22:42
Yeah I'd love an official release of this show. Everyone literally on top of their game.
Re: 1975 Tour Legacy. What Happened?
Posted by:
timbernardis
()
Date: April 5, 2021 02:08
Quote
jbwelda
Is it a coincidence that they went from performing on stage in 72 and 73 to performing around big stupid props in 75? I do not think so, I think they purposely went for the spectacle to cover their ineptitude musically at that point. Jaggers singing is really bad, as noted, cutting off and slurring words and in general not giving a sh*t about how he sounded or how he sang. The added percussion on fingerprint file for instance is really kool, but Billy Preston was always a drag if you ask me, and in 75 they relied on him a lot more than they should have. It was truly the beginning of the end for exciting well played stage shows out of these guys. That Ronnie has morphed from an adequate guitar player to someone running around the stage, paying more attention to the audience than to his playing, has only hurt matters. These days they rely so much on outside musicians and a stage full of backers and singers that it is beyond the pale, and it all started with the 75 tour, each tour has to be more of a spectacle with less musicianship in display.
jb
not really. 78 and 81 had less spectacle than 75.
plexi
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