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treaclefingersQuote
SomeGuy
Not every spoken word thingy is rap, or else Patti Smith and Jim Morrison would have been rappers also
Just saying.
Lou Reed was the Original Wrapper!
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SomeGuyQuote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
SomeGuyQuote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
georgie48Quote
laertisflash
I think "Memo From Turner" is their most "rapy" tune.
I can't disagree with you, but ... officially it's not a Rolling Stones song, at least the official version (I know the blootleg version, though)
There is definitely some "talk-singing" on the Stones's officially released version, too
[youtu.be]
One could argue how 'officially released' the Metamorphosis album is. And the fact that Memo is on it doesn't necessarily make it a Rolling Stones song, in my opinion. Apparently a lot of the songs don't feature the band, even.
It's the Stones, only with Al Kooper instead of Mick Taylor. And it's on a released album, as "officially released" as Hot Rocks is.
It also lacks Keith and perhaps Charlie. To me the term 'officially released Stones version' doesn't quite convey the fact that Metamorphosis was not sanctioned by the band and was simply a cashgrab by the then-already ousted Allen Klein, of whom we all know the history of. I'm pretty sure if you'd confront Mick or Keith with a term like 'the version that you officially released in '75' would most certainly raise their eyebrows
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georgie48Quote
treaclefingersQuote
SomeGuy
Not every spoken word thingy is rap, or else Patti Smith and Jim Morrison would have been rappers also
Just saying.
Lou Reed was the Original Wrapper!
Well, sorry for Lou Reed, but Rap is not an "new post war thing". There were some great rappers in the Roaring Twenties. I've seen B&W live recorings dating back to the 1920s from USA based Afro-American Blues/Jazz bands with rappers that would knock flat any post war rappers. Nothing new under the horizon here.
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Big AlQuote
georgie48Quote
treaclefingersQuote
SomeGuy
Not every spoken word thingy is rap, or else Patti Smith and Jim Morrison would have been rappers also
Just saying.
Lou Reed was the Original Wrapper!
Well, sorry for Lou Reed, but Rap is not an "new post war thing". There were some great rappers in the Roaring Twenties. I've seen B&W live recorings dating back to the 1920s from USA based Afro-American Blues/Jazz bands with rappers that would knock flat any post war rappers. Nothing new under the horizon here.
The roots of ‘rapping’ go way back, for sure. However, hip-hop as a genre and cultural movement, developed amongst the black and Latino communities of NYC in the 70’s.
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DandelionPowdermanQuote
SomeGuyQuote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
SomeGuyQuote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
georgie48Quote
laertisflash
I think "Memo From Turner" is their most "rapy" tune.
I can't disagree with you, but ... officially it's not a Rolling Stones song, at least the official version (I know the blootleg version, though)
There is definitely some "talk-singing" on the Stones's officially released version, too
[youtu.be]
One could argue how 'officially released' the Metamorphosis album is. And the fact that Memo is on it doesn't necessarily make it a Rolling Stones song, in my opinion. Apparently a lot of the songs don't feature the band, even.
It's the Stones, only with Al Kooper instead of Mick Taylor. And it's on a released album, as "officially released" as Hot Rocks is.
It also lacks Keith and perhaps Charlie. To me the term 'officially released Stones version' doesn't quite convey the fact that Metamorphosis was not sanctioned by the band and was simply a cashgrab by the then-already ousted Allen Klein, of whom we all know the history of. I'm pretty sure if you'd confront Mick or Keith with a term like 'the version that you officially released in '75' would most certainly raise their eyebrows
It certainly doesn't lack Keith
And what would they say about Hot Rocks? "Never heard of it. Must be a bootleg".
Once it's out there it's out there. Hot Rocks still charts in the US, btw..
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DandelionPowderman
<but no way is it Keith playing>
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SomeGuyQuote
DandelionPowderman
-[iorr.org], and also see these quotes:
LONDON – Olympic Sound Studios, 18 November 1968
•Sean Egan
“..., energies were focused on overdubs of ‘Memo From Turner’, a track earmarked for soundtrack of the Performance movie. As only overdubs were required, Watts and Wyman were not present. Not, to Kooper’s recollection, was Miller, with only Andy Johns accompanying himself, Jagger and Richards in the studio.
To the best of his recollection, there was already a Jagger vocal on the track when he began overdubbing with Richards.”
“It’s difficult to asses what stage in this fraught process Jagger and Richards had reached the evening Kooper worked on the track. Despite the claims against Richards of non-cooperation, a lot of work seems to have been done on this song, for the two officially released versions do not - according to Kooper himself – feature Al Kooper’s handiwork. Kooper played not keyboards but guitar at the session he attended.”
“(Due to) the affair between Jagger and Pallenberg, “Keith just refused to get down with it”.
•Philip Norman:
“With Keith against in the studio, the song sounded just awful – still and lifeless.”
Mick Jagger - vocals, maracas (both later removed)
Al Kooper - guitar (overdubbed at a second session and later removed by Jack Nitzche)
Keith Richards - guitar (overdubbed at a second session and most probably later removed by Jack Nitzche)
Andy Johns – engineer
This ‘awful’ version could be the one that ended up in the ‘Metamorphosis’ album, in 1975."
-[www.youtube.com] ("AND KEEF DiNDNT PLAY in NONE of those sessions....")
-[www.youtube.com] (view comment "I like all three versions of this song, but I love the feel on this one. It's funny that Keith doesn't play on any of them.")
-(From Keno)
"...Why it ended up on a Stones album is not known. There is a question about who is playing drums on the Metamorphosis cut. One thing for sure is that Keith Richards didn't play guitar on any of the session's tracks.
MEMO FROM TURNER (Metamorphosis version)
(Jagger/Richards)
Lead Vocal: Mick Jagger Guitars: Brian Jones, Steve Winwood & Al Kooper Bass: Bill Wyman Drums: Charlie Watts (?) or Jim Capali (?) Keyboards: Al Kooper
MEMO FROM TURNER (London Years/Performance version)
(Jagger/Richards)
Lead Vocal: Mick Jagger Guitars: Ry Cooder (Slide), Russ Titelman Bass: Jerry Scheff Drums: Gene Parsons Keyboards: Randy Newman"
When I first heard the album version in 1984, the first thing I thought was: this must be Jimmy Page (as he was credited on the sleeve), as it sounded nothing like Keith at all, but had a definite, late 60s heavy rock sound to it a la Led Zeppelin (a sound that Keith always stayed away from). That of course wasn't true, but it shows that from the very first listen I sensed that it couldn't be Keith playing it. Just my impression, but I feel sort of justified so many years later (as I never delved into this before this discussion) that my gut feeling wasn't wrong.
Sorry for detracting from the topic for so long, I will stop now.
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DandelionPowdermanQuote
SomeGuyQuote
DandelionPowderman
-[iorr.org], and also see these quotes:
LONDON – Olympic Sound Studios, 18 November 1968
•Sean Egan
“..., energies were focused on overdubs of ‘Memo From Turner’, a track earmarked for soundtrack of the Performance movie. As only overdubs were required, Watts and Wyman were not present. Not, to Kooper’s recollection, was Miller, with only Andy Johns accompanying himself, Jagger and Richards in the studio.
To the best of his recollection, there was already a Jagger vocal on the track when he began overdubbing with Richards.”
“It’s difficult to asses what stage in this fraught process Jagger and Richards had reached the evening Kooper worked on the track. Despite the claims against Richards of non-cooperation, a lot of work seems to have been done on this song, for the two officially released versions do not - according to Kooper himself – feature Al Kooper’s handiwork. Kooper played not keyboards but guitar at the session he attended.”
“(Due to) the affair between Jagger and Pallenberg, “Keith just refused to get down with it”.
•Philip Norman:
“With Keith against in the studio, the song sounded just awful – still and lifeless.”
Mick Jagger - vocals, maracas (both later removed)
Al Kooper - guitar (overdubbed at a second session and later removed by Jack Nitzche)
Keith Richards - guitar (overdubbed at a second session and most probably later removed by Jack Nitzche)
Andy Johns – engineer
This ‘awful’ version could be the one that ended up in the ‘Metamorphosis’ album, in 1975."
-[www.youtube.com] ("AND KEEF DiNDNT PLAY in NONE of those sessions....")
-[www.youtube.com] (view comment "I like all three versions of this song, but I love the feel on this one. It's funny that Keith doesn't play on any of them.")
-(From Keno)
"...Why it ended up on a Stones album is not known. There is a question about who is playing drums on the Metamorphosis cut. One thing for sure is that Keith Richards didn't play guitar on any of the session's tracks.
MEMO FROM TURNER (Metamorphosis version)
(Jagger/Richards)
Lead Vocal: Mick Jagger Guitars: Brian Jones, Steve Winwood & Al Kooper Bass: Bill Wyman Drums: Charlie Watts (?) or Jim Capali (?) Keyboards: Al Kooper
MEMO FROM TURNER (London Years/Performance version)
(Jagger/Richards)
Lead Vocal: Mick Jagger Guitars: Ry Cooder (Slide), Russ Titelman Bass: Jerry Scheff Drums: Gene Parsons Keyboards: Randy Newman"
When I first heard the album version in 1984, the first thing I thought was: this must be Jimmy Page (as he was credited on the sleeve), as it sounded nothing like Keith at all, but had a definite, late 60s heavy rock sound to it a la Led Zeppelin (a sound that Keith always stayed away from). That of course wasn't true, but it shows that from the very first listen I sensed that it couldn't be Keith playing it. Just my impression, but I feel sort of justified so many years later (as I never delved into this before this discussion) that my gut feeling wasn't wrong.
Sorry for detracting from the topic for so long, I will stop now.
Firstly, there are many versions of this track. Secondly, there are two guitars on the Metamorphosis version. One rhythm track, with some classic licks (Keith) and Al Kooper's track, which takes over gradually with lead guitar. Surely, it must be that track you don't think sounds like Keith? If you mean the other track then that's unfathomable to me.
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DandelionPowderman
Keith has a unique way of playing, easily recognisable.
And timeisonourside.com has Keith on rhythm guitar.
[timeisonourside.com]
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Nikkei
iorr is a hypnotized bunch this was about rap and now its who played guitar on turner again
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Elmo Lewis
Rap - the ruination of blues based rock
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mike567
Given that Mick listens a lot to hip hop as it seems, its quite telling that he prefers to put rappers on songs instead of doing it himself (talk about knowing what you're good at), like with Skepta on England Lost or the then never realized collaboration with Missy Elliot on Hide Away