I'll say this.Get Off Of My Cloud '75 = pure crap & noise.Get Off Of My Cloud '05 = quality music.You have to be either deaf or somehow prejudiced to say any member of the band did a better job on this song in '75 than they have done this past month.In fact,they are doing well on many songs.One more example is opening night Beast Of Burden versus most '94/'95 versions of this song.It's kind of apples & oranges to compare it to the early live versions.I've watched some of these shows from less than 10 feet away & I have to say alot of this posing is in your heads.It goes on but,not as much as some people will lead you to believe.I watched Richards at one show and Wood at another from a very short distance play their guitars.I know this for a fact.I just think the shows are too short & there,for the most part,has been piss poor song selection.

4tylix wrote:

ChrisM Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What is a fan then?

Thanks for the defintion but I know the meaning. The question was rhetorical!

OH NO NOT YOU AGAIN

I've seen two shows in the past two weeks and they are better than ever (and I've seen all the tours from 1975 on)....also LOOK better than ever.

Why do you all (MYSELF INCLUDED!) always fall for this Mathijs character's blather? It's probably the most attention he ever gets. Stop enabling his uninformed, infantile idiocy and constantly changing opinions. He's a sad, sad whiner.

HEY, WHY DON'T YOU SEE THE F*CKING SHOW (WHICH YOU WILL HATE ANYWAY) BEFORE YOU VOMIT ALL OVER THIS BOARD AGAIN?!

no, Licks was the worst tour ever unless youre a Chuck fan.

Of the post-95 "comeback tours", Overall I've enjoyed the shows from this tour more than I did No Security... I guess I'd rank this tour BELOW VooDoo and Licks... and probably slightly below Bridges to Babylon ... or perhaps even on a par with Bridges (if a bit more uneven)...

But definitely better than No Security.

ABB seems to be kind of a "back to the raw sound" album AND Tour... it is a bit uneven...

But I think there's a good chance that if you catch one of these shows there will be at least one, if not a couple tunes that you will remember as the best rendition you ever heard.

For example, for me, I never heard Satisfaction or Jumpin Jack Flash better than on this ABB tour.

"It's just that demon life has got me in it's sway..."

> 80%? I dunno about that..its guesswork, really -
> but if thats the case, we'd probably all think
> everything they did was wonderful (some people
> evidently do).

The 80% is obviously personal. I don't think that everything they did is wonderful, far from it but I have never been disappointed at the Stones shows I've seen so far. Maybe that's because I go see them to have a good time with friends, have a few beers and enjoy a good show, not with the hope that they might play 'lady Jane' or 'jigsaw puzzle' because they won't and then you will be disappointed. Or if you go as a critic and note every little mistake they make or hoping for at least 22 songs etc. etc. People who go with attitudes like that to a Stones show must have a really bad time. I don't understand why they bother to go at all, because it's really sad if you can only be happy about the show when they play certain songs or how many songs they play.
What I try to say is that I go for the experience, the happening and the music of course. And of course I would appreciate it when they would play a song which they normally don't play, but if they don't, they don't, I won't nag or complain about it.

I agree with Mathijs on this.
I said from the beginning of the Tour that they toured too quick after the Licks Tour.
They needed to do something different on this Tour to make it a good tour - but they haven't.
Mathijs is correct - the recordings that are available sound terrible.
Bootlegs don't lie!

I don't think it's a coincidence that this board is littered with "how boring is the Tour", "how boring are the setlists", "how bad is Ronnie playing" etc....
There are more negative posts about this Tour than any other Tour before.
I think even the some of the most ardent fans are getting a little irritated with the band's performances....

Esky

See and judge for yourself before giving out an opinion.... I hope to see them next year... every time I saw them, I enjoyed the time spent at their concert... It was money worth every time... Hope I'll get the chance to see them next year...You too Mathijs.. I went to two Stones tours Urban Jungle tour (Cologne) and their Licks tour (Hong Kong)... don't have much money to spend but I consider myself lucky enough to have enjoyed their concert .... it is great to see them ones per tour (not enough maybe)... Remember this might be their very LAST tour... Who knows? When they are finished touring forever, you might say.. I wish I saw them a very last time.....

Jack Knife Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> OH NO NOT YOU AGAIN
>
. He's a sad, sad whiner.
>
> HEY, WHY DON'T YOU SEE THE F*CKING SHOW (WHICH YOU
> WILL HATE ANYWAY) BEFORE YOU VOMIT ALL OVER THIS
> BOARD AGAIN?!
>
>



Now who is the f*&ing whiner here?

Esky: The quality of bootlegs which are available from this tour is by far the most mediocre we received since 81. Even some of my casettes from 76 seem to be better. From this point of view: Nobody can judge any concert.

Rockingfan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Esky: The quality of bootlegs which are available
> from this tour is by far the most mediocre we
> received since 81. Even some of my casettes from
> 76 seem to be better. From this point of view:
> Nobody can judge any concert.


It means the sound quality during the shows is mediocre too.

The stuff I heard was good. I have 2 DVDs and a CD from this tour. Great stuff. To me they're playing a bit like in 1994 and 1995. And that's the best of the stadium tours IMO.

I wouldn't say that I feel threatened by Mathijs' post (Or any of these kind of posts). People who got used to only singing "I got nasty habits" and ONLY see the Stones as an act that was great in the sixties and seventies really miss out on a lot of cool stuff.

It's no secret that Mathijs has lost something by being an audiophile, almost educated musician, and stuff like that. I really think he lost it. Sure he can say that this and that sounds good because of the skill of the drummer or something like that. But it was never the meaning of rock 'n roll to be looked upon like that. See a Bill Wyman's Rythm Kings show. Trained musicians that really know their instrument. But BORING beyond belive. It's the same with Mick Taylor shows I think. A Stones show is pure rock 'n roll. Even with those bum notes here and there. The Rolling Stones ROCK, but it's a shame that some people don't see it........Or rather: Don't FEEL it.

JumpingKentFlash

Not necessarily, wisertime. It could be just as easily down to the incompetency of the person taping the show, substandard equipment or just depending on where he happens to be located. Most reviews I've read on this tour have commented how much better the sound is.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2005-10-24 11:57 by Gazza.

UnderAssistantWCpromoMan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Mathijs Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > It slowly struck me. I haven't been to any
> show
> > live, all I heard and saw of this tour is
> from
> > downloaded audience tapes and DVD's.
>
>
>
> meaning, you have no clue, but gosh, you made a
> big enough post to say something you know not


Not? Really? Sounds like he's thought anout it and this is his conclusion. Well, I agree, of course, it's a Veags-act.

Mathijs Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> UnderAssistantWCpromoMan Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> > meaning, you have no clue, but gosh, you made
> a
> > big enough post to say something you know
> not
>
> I haven't seen any shows live from 1963 to 1982
> either, still the recordings of these shows strike
> me as the best ever shows given by any band.
>
> Mathijs
>
>
>


My point too. Any recording form those years are interesting at least. Often very good and sometimes pure briliance. Best there ever were.

Harm Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Here we go again........


Yes, here we go again; a fan says something critical about his favourite band. How dare he?

hip shakin mama Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What kind of opinion do you have if you have not
> even seen the show. You are judging from illegal
> videos you see on the internet. I have seen three
> shows this tour, one on stage and one in row 12.
> This show kicks ass like all the other stones
> shows. I think people like you just get a kick
> out of saying negative things about the stones.
> But you should look at yourself and then not pick
> on 60 year old men out giving THEIR FANS what they
> want. YOU ARE OBVIOUSLY NOT A FAN.


Neither are you. You are religious.

wisertime Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> barcelona Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I think the Steel Wheels tour was even
> worse.
> > There was this Chuck Leavell thing
> everywhere.
>
>
> Yes but Keith and the boys were on fire on Steel
> Wheels tour, fantastic guitar parts. When I listen
> to the 2005 recordings, Keith has lost the touch,
> 89/90 shows were much more powerful. Hey,they were
> 15 years less!!


Even if I dont like that tour (first Vegastour) they played very good. Keith was sharp as hell although not rocking like in 1981-1982.

I find the reactions Mathijs gets with his posts very funny: You're not a fan! Go @#$%& yourself! LOL!

I admit Mathijs is right. Many of the boots I listen to from the last tours leave me cold, which I see as the worst kind of reaction after listening to the Stones. And you don't have to be at a certain show to appreciate the musicianship of a band, as many pointed before. But after being fan for quite a long time I have to admit the band is not in the higher point of their career.

Darryl, apart from being a great musician and probably a great guy, don't siut the Stones at all; Keith, who once used to carry the whole band, hardly plays anything more than the casual licks and the casual chops, with that awful this-guitar-is-too-hot thing and quite limited soloing; Ronnie, who did carry a whole band with his playing, well, seems to find it quite difficult to concentrate, so to tell... I must say that I prefer the drunken voice of Ronnie do the backing vocals, too, since I find Lisa and Bernard have already had his time with the band. For god's sake, they've been with the band already too much, and the Stones should shuffle and give cards again, take a step forward. If you're gonna do a tour based in your legend, then squeeze the legend thing and do stripped down shows, like the @#$%& garage band they were instead the Rolling Stones Revue...

If three fifths of the band (bass, two guitars) aren't nowhere near what they should perform, well, it's all said.

Some days ago there was a thread asking if Keith's ability had deteriorated. It seemed so obvious that at first I thought it was a joke!

I'm gonna see the Stones the next year again, but I must admit I don't know if I'm gonna try to convince my frinds to go see them again. They're not hardcore fans, but they are relatively familiar with the band and the classic albums and all that, and, sadly, the chances of them being dissapointed with the present incarnation of the Stones are quite high...



[There'll be no wedding today...]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2005-10-24 12:03 by bruno.

Just to get it straight: There's as much boring recordings from 1969 to 1982 as there is from 1989 to 2005.
I really hate when people call them a Vegas act. That's just not true, and I ain't defending them at all. Vegas act????? Come on. Get over yourself.

BTW: There's a good thread on the Stones as a Vegas act somewhere on this forum.

JumpingKentFlash

Edward Twining Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I agree generally with Mathijs but i disagree
> strongly with his view that Mick sings as good as
> ever. How can he be so perceptive about every
> other aspect of the Stones performance without
> noticing Mick now sings as flat as a pancake?


I think he has to say something good about someone, it's illegal to critize the Stones at elast on this board. If I could I would talk to Mick and Keith (who wouldnt give a shite of course) and tell them they suck big time. Why? Because this used to be OK and they improved. Kill the yes-men and they get better. By the way, why is it OK to bash their late 70's if you werent there? You can download anything today and judge but all we have from the 70s are some lousy bootlegs and still they shine on those.

Yeah, but I compare to the band I love (1963-1983,84...). OK, Macca did his comeback thing in 1989 and so did the Stones, and I liked it at the time, I also find parts of the voodo lounge tour good but I think they are just a circus now. Now, they have a new good album, so why not try and do another one and another one and play these songs AND not get stuck with Tumblin Dice.

YOU'RE a circus. I bet you have flags in your hair.

JumpingKentFlash



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2005-10-24 12:11 by JumpingKentFlash.

Yeah and two elephants in my bedroom! I would of course join their circus anytime by the way. And jam all night long with Keith. And then I'd marry Micks daughters and adopt Ronnie.

I think Glimmer Twin has the best aproach to going to a Stones gig, much like myself.

Too many people are obsesive about the Stones - especially on this board. surely the main aim of a Stones gig is to go and enjoy yourself, rock out. It shouldn't be about in-depth analysis and criticism, surely that's missing the point man.

To me it's a bit sad, all this critical evaluation of the music, people have taken something that is supposed to be all about feel, groove and emotion and turned it into some kind of science. (of course it could be argued that the stones themselves have also done this)

whenever I go to concerts with my mates, all were bothered about is having a few beers, a good laff and rocking out.

don't know why but it seems that the Stones have more than their fair share of analy retentive fans.

Chill out brothers and sisters, it is ONLY rock 'n' roll after all you know!!

AMEN!!!!!

(MTM: Are you the guy who sings "Monkey Tonk Man" on Street Fighting Fans vol. 1??? That's one of the coolest songs on there).

JumpingKentFlash



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2005-10-24 12:33 by JumpingKentFlash.

Mathijs, you are so right and most of what you said I posted here before in one or another form (tough I haven't read the answers when I wished they shall quit after this tour!).

You can read it in "According to the Rolling Stones" in Keiths section that Mick only wants the War Horses because he thinks the guitarists aren't able to play anything else. In the meanwhile they aren't even able to play the War Horses. OK, how should Keith play properly with this artritis? Look at his fingers and you will get a clue. I was always a Keefian but he lost his touch to the band even if he might look cool on stage. And I like Ronnie as a human. I feel very sorry for his alcohol problems and it makes me really sad listening to boots from this tour. Seems that he can't stand the pressure between Mick and Keith.

I haven't seen the cover of the so called "rarieties" CD but to wipe out Bill from the cover is a joke. Really pour souls even if he isn't in the band anymore. But you can be sure that it wasn't Mick or Charlie who don't want him on the cover! As a bass player who started playing bass because of old Bill it's needless to say that I miss Bill!

Anyway, just listen to what is available from this tour. I think there are some people on this board who are able to make their own judgement.

And yes, I'm stupid enough to maybe see more shows in Europe if I can afford more than one ticket. But I know I can judge the performance the right way and won't have problems if anybody takes his heart on his tongue!

Helló Kishörcsög!

Felteszem, Te is Magyarhonból való vagy. Voltál már koncerten ezen a turnén?

Stumpf András

jumpingKentflash

sorry dude, thats not me, wish it was though. rocks like @#$%&!!!!!

Yep.

JumpingKentFlash