It slowly struck me. I haven't been to any show live, all I heard and saw of this tour is from downloaded audience tapes and DVD's. But if I judge what I hear, is this the worst ever tour the Stones have done? Musically, I find the playing appaling. To me, the music misses everything I love in the Stones. It doesn't swing, it doesn't rock, it just doesn't do anything to me. For me, Darryl Jones and Wood are the first to blame, but also Keith just isn't any good anymore. Daryl Jones is the main culprit to me. He just doesn't have the swing that Stones music needs. I listened to some versions of Shattered from this tour, and then compared it to Hampton 1981. The difference is striking: Hampton is rocking and swinging at the same time, with Bill Wyman playing a walking bass right through Richards and Watts thumping rythm. Nowadays, Daryl just slaps out right on the beat, completely ignoring everything that makes Stones music great. Ron Wood is probably at the same level he had on the Euro leg of the Licks Tour. I find all his solo's just drunken men's noise. I thought his solo on Sway was an exception, but he just plays this way these days. Listen how he solo's on Tumbling Dice. His sound is terrible, and now he hides his inabillity to play a decent solo in his B-bender, churning out out-of-tune off-beat phrases. Richars isn't playing any rythm anymore. He changed from the best ever rythm guitarist to a mediocre guitarist who doesn't carry the band, but just keeps on filling up spaces with mediocre fills and leads. Jagger is good as ever, and Charlie is o.k.

Combine this all with a setlist that's only 20 songs long, basically existing of 15 warhorses they played for the last 20 years, Keith doing a terribly boring new song and a mediocre country song of old. Why on earth would anyone go to a Stones show anno 2005? They release a record that it's their best since 1983, but they just don't dare to tour behind it. Just 2 or 3 songs, and that's it.

I must say, that I am also truly amazed about the new greatest hist package they are going to release. Of course, it's a CD that isn't interesting (too dull for hard core fans, too weird for the general music buying audience), we are accustomed to the Stones not being able to release anything interesting. My hopes are gone. But what stuck me most, is the fact that they dared to erase Wyman from the picture. Wyman IS a Roling Stone, and all the Stones are now today is because of Jagger, Richards, Watts and Wyman. He plays on 90% of the songs on the package, and yet they wipe him out. I truly find this horrible. The Stones now deny the reason why they have become the biggest band in the world. It reminds me too much of Michael Jackson changing the colour of his skin on his older albums. Of McCartney changing the "Lennon/McCartney" credits to "Macca/Lennon". If a bands deny of of the key members, do you think they'll ever release L&G, or anything from that period? The Stones have become an awfull, money grabbing Las Vegas act. This has nothing to do with the band I love so much. The Stones have become an appaling money making machine.

Mathijs

Mathijs Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It slowly struck me. I haven't been to any show
> live, all I heard and saw of this tour is from
> downloaded audience tapes and DVD's.



meaning, you have no clue, but gosh, you made a big enough post to say something you know not

Well Mathijs, I think you should wait to declare such a critical review of this tour until you have seen them live. I have seen two shows so far, and both shows were much better than all other shows I attended at last tour. They play with a new freshness, maybe because they got a new album out. On the last tour songs like Start Me Up and It's Only Rock'n'Roll bored me, but not this time. The sound is perfect, and the band is more than perfect. Wait and see Mathijs, youll be surprised and satisfied.

I'm in distress, too, Mathijs - but I will await my upcoming four shows before I vote on whether this is their nadir....

UnderAssistantWCpromoMan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> meaning, you have no clue, but gosh, you made a
> big enough post to say something you know not

I haven't seen any shows live from 1963 to 1982 either, still the recordings of these shows strike me as the best ever shows given by any band.

Mathijs

Mathijs, you also turned down ABB after hearing four songs. It's okay to be critical, but wait until you have heard the album, and attended the concerts! I don't like that they re-release ABB with a few additions soon, that's money-grabbing. But, as always, it's hard not to love this band.

I have the idea too, but I won't say that until I see them live.

Isn't Mathijs the same person who said Ronnie was drunk and ruined the Olympia show? Looked pretty good to me on Four Flicks!

I think the tour is an improvement, both sound and performance wise, compared to the Licks Tour. I agree that they should play more ABB songs though and I don't get what Ronnie is up to when he plays the Tumbling Dice solo...strangling his guitar...




Belgrade-Bucharest-Budapest-Brno

its not the best for sure, but they damn sure need to beef up the set list
to even have it considered for the best

Here we go again........

on with the show,good to be here, good to be anywhere

Mathijs, I feel your pain. Today's Stones don't even come close to sounding like the band I fell totally and completely in love with so many years ago. I agree with you fully -- the swing, rock n roll and garage-band mentality that made them so freaking tremendous -- the best and most rocking band of all time -- are just plain gone. Considering where they once stood, it truly is a profoundly saddening development

That said, however, I think they sound better on this tour than they have in a while. Your assesments of Keith, Ronnie and Darryl are right on target, of course, but I at least hear them playing with more focus this time around. That certainly might change as the tour goes on, but for now it's been enough to keep me as satisfied as I can be with them these days.



-- Keep on rollin'. Keep on. Keep on. Keep on. --

Answer: No.

Thanks, Kurt!

Mathijs,

You are the all knowing master of all things guitar, but you need to go to a show before you start making a judgement.

Mathijs:
Didn't you once say goodbye to this board? Could it be that it should have been for longer than only some what ever months or weeks??
Haven't you been already with respect critical with the previous tours? I agree I haven't seen anything from this tour. The mostly very positive critics even from papers which are very reluctant to the Stones strike me.
If it's boring for you so just get off of the cloud....

saw 3 licks - 4 bangs ,,this tour much better than licks ,,

I don't get it:

This is a perfectly reasonable question to ask. Why is everybody so threatened by Mathijs's willingness to consider it?

It doesn't mean he doesn't like or care about the Stones, just that he's worried about the quality of the shows--even as he admits to listening only to recordings.

I have tons of Stones recordings, books, memorabilia. I go to as many shows as possible, listen with great pleasure, try to turn others on to their work and so on...

And I'm concerned about the album and the tour--as I have been while I attending two of the four shows I have planned. Is this the "worst tour" ever? I don't know, but one of them is...

Loving the Stones does not mean ignoring their faults and failings.

Why don't we stop shouting down those who worry about the Stones' performance or ask the tough questions?

What kind of opinion do you have if you have not even seen the show. You are judging from illegal videos you see on the internet. I have seen three shows this tour, one on stage and one in row 12. This show kicks ass like all the other stones shows. I think people like you just get a kick out of saying negative things about the stones. But you should look at yourself and then not pick on 60 year old men out giving THEIR FANS what they want. YOU ARE OBVIOUSLY NOT A FAN.

nag nag nag.....

I'm getting sick and tired of all you naggers who have nothing interesting to say. If you don't like what they do then don't go see them and don't buy their cd's and shut up about it. I thought this was a board for fans of the stones.

These guys are 60+ years old, what do you expect? Just be happy that they do tour.

What is a fan then? One who fawns over the band's every musical utterance as if it were gospel or someone who can look at the band critically and say what they love AND what the don't love about them? I'll tell you what it means to me; its those two extrmes and eveything in between.

Mathijs brings up two good points; The band has released arguably their best album in 25 years and yet they are barely playing any tunes from it on this tour. Why, I wonder? Secondly, many of us did not see the band in their heyday but you only have to listen to shows from that period to know that they were indeed the Greatest Rock and Roll band in the world. Can that truthfully be said now? I wonder....

I think the Steel Wheels tour was even worse.
There was this Chuck Leavell thing everywhere.

Elmo Lewis Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thanks, Kurt!
>
> Mathijs,
>
> You are the all knowing master of all things
> guitar, but you need to go to a show before you
> start making a judgement.


How many people on this board were at concerts in 1969, 1972 or 1973?

Not many, I'm sure

yet its evidently perfectly OK for someone to say how brilliant those shows were based solely on audio evidence ?

the same standards surely apply if you're criticising concerts

he's criticising the PLAYING, which you dont need to be at a show to be able to evaluate - the actual concert experience is another matter entirely

Mathijs Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It slowly struck me. I haven't been to any show
> live, all I heard and saw of this tour is from
> downloaded audience tapes and DVD's. But if I
> judge what I hear, is this the worst ever tour the
> Stones have done? Musically, I find the playing
> appaling. To me, the music misses everything I
> love in the Stones. It doesn't swing, it doesn't
> rock, it just doesn't do anything to me. For me,
> Darryl Jones and Wood are the first to blame, but
> also Keith just isn't any good anymore. Daryl
> Jones is the main culprit to me. He just doesn't
> have the swing that Stones music needs. I listened
> to some versions of Shattered from this tour, and
> then compared it to Hampton 1981. The difference
> is striking: Hampton is rocking and swinging at
> the same time, with Bill Wyman playing a walking
> bass right through Richards and Watts thumping
> rythm. Nowadays, Daryl just slaps out right on the
> beat, completely ignoring everything that makes
> Stones music great. Ron Wood is probably at the
> same level he had on the Euro leg of the Licks
> Tour. I find all his solo's just drunken men's
> noise. I thought his solo on Sway was an
> exception, but he just plays this way these days.
> Listen how he solo's on Tumbling Dice. His sound
> is terrible, and now he hides his inabillity to
> play a decent solo in his B-bender, churning out
> out-of-tune off-beat phrases. Richars isn't
> playing any rythm anymore. He changed from the
> best ever rythm guitarist to a mediocre guitarist
> who doesn't carry the band, but just keeps on
> filling up spaces with mediocre fills and leads.
> Jagger is good as ever, and Charlie is o.k.
>
> Combine this all with a setlist that's only 20
> songs long, basically existing of 15 warhorses
> they played for the last 20 years, Keith doing a
> terribly boring new song and a mediocre country
> song of old. Why on earth would anyone go to a
> Stones show anno 2005? They release a record that
> it's their best since 1983, but they just don't
> dare to tour behind it. Just 2 or 3 songs, and
> that's it.
>
> I must say, that I am also truly amazed about the
> new greatest hist package they are going to
> release. Of course, it's a CD that isn't
> interesting (too dull for hard core fans, too
> weird for the general music buying audience), we
> are accustomed to the Stones not being able to
> release anything interesting. My hopes are gone.
> But what stuck me most, is the fact that they
> dared to erase Wyman from the picture. Wyman IS a
> Roling Stone, and all the Stones are now today is
> because of Jagger, Richards, Watts and Wyman. He
> plays on 90% of the songs on the package, and yet
> they wipe him out. I truly find this horrible. The
> Stones now deny the reason why they have become
> the biggest band in the world. It reminds me too
> much of Michael Jackson changing the colour of his
> skin on his older albums. Of McCartney changing
> the "Lennon/McCartney" credits to "Macca/Lennon".
> If a bands deny of of the key members, do you
> think they'll ever release L&G, or anything
> from that period? The Stones have become an
> awfull, money grabbing Las Vegas act. This has
> nothing to do with the band I love so much. The
> Stones have become an appaling money making
> machine.
>
> Mathijs


Concerning your observation of the guitar playing of Ron Wood I agree. It is terrible, in fact. He misses the simplest soli, he plays a plenty of wrong notes and seems to have lost all his inspiration. If the opener is "Start Me Up" you can be sure that Ron Wood plays nothing but nonsense. The short and simple solo on "Tumbling Dice" is a desaster. It is a sad thing. If you study some boots from the '70 or '80 (both live and outtakes) you hear a very good guitarist, both live and in studio. But he seems to loose all his abilities. Compare the solo of Ron Wood on YCAGWYW in '76 on the Paris bootleg for example to the solo on the same song on "Live Licks" or "Four Flicks". You can't imagine that it is the same man, who plays the guitar.

ChrisM Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What is a fan then?

the term comes from fanatic...that means having the utmost devotion. For those who loved the Stones of the 60's-70's, maybe into the 80's, maybe the 90's....but now think ABB sucks and the tour stinks, why not just say you "used" to be a fan of the Stones, but now think they've gotten old and gone downhill?

Then you can move on to being positive about some other band, rather than griping, bitching and moaning here?

I've seen two shows this tour and would say they definitely beat Licks, and definitely better than what I saw/heard at JFK in 1981. Mick's voice is great...the guitars are clear and mostly tight. What bootlegs has this guy listened to?

barcelona Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I think the Steel Wheels tour was even worse.
> There was this Chuck Leavell thing everywhere.


Yes but Keith and the boys were on fire on Steel Wheels tour, fantastic guitar parts. When I listen to the 2005 recordings, Keith has lost the touch, 89/90 shows were much more powerful. Hey,they were 15 years less!!

ABB was a pleasant suprise, but this tour clearly sucks. Just look at BV review from the last show, spends half the review like a touring guide. 40 licks tour was bad as well but at least there was some variety in the set lists. I cant judge them until I see them in Seattle, but I am not exactly looking forward to the premier of SOL...

SO WHAT!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2005-10-23 21:42 by ohcarol.

They are playing pretty well but,i believe they have just decided to take the big money and are not being creative.They have said that they would like to have done ten shows in the U.S. and ten in the rest of the world or something like that.I believe that a 20 show tour would be better for them these days.Maybe they would put more into each concert.

It's the same old story on this board, if you don't think the Stones are up to the job anymore of performing live then don't go. No one is forcing you to pay $200, $300 or even $400 a ticket so just stay away. Personally I have seen 8 shows on this tour so far and have REALLY enjoyed the shows. I have nothing against anyone critising the band I love, just don't see the point of buying music by the Stones and still going to their gigs. They are in their sixties now and would still prefer to see them Live than go and watch bands that are propelled into the spotlight never actually having done a tour of any sorts and can't even play their instruments properly.

John (stjohnswood)