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Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 status around the world
Posted by: Nikkei ()
Date: December 2, 2021 18:11

You know there's virologists who predicted that "immune pressure" from vaccinated individuals would cause it to evolve like that.

Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 status around the world
Posted by: treaclefingers ()
Date: December 2, 2021 18:24

Quote
bv
Norway Government press conference today just finished, following new info about how fast Omicron is spreading, basically through air to more than 50% of all people in the same room as one person being infected: Mask mandate, max 100 people at private parties, max 600 people at indoor public events.

The new variant Omicron is a game changer, multiple times faster in spreading, if you are in the same room as a person infected with Omicron, the chance is more than 50% you will get covid-19, even if you are fully vaccinated.

No info yet on the severity of this version of the virus from the conference?

Hoping that in addition to faster spread it is a much less serious version, which moves us to a 'manageable', endemic stage.

Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 status around the world
Posted by: skytrench ()
Date: December 2, 2021 18:37

Yes, let's hope so, it could serve as an immunization if the infected don't get seriously ill. On another note:

Canada confirms first Covid cases in wildlife
Canada has confirmed its first cases of coronavirus in wildlife – in three white-tailed deer.

The National Centre for Foreign Animal Disease said the samples were collected in early November from the free-ranging animals in the Estrie region of Quebec along the border with the United States.

“Similar to findings in the United States, the deer showed no evidence of clinical signs of disease, and were all apparently healthy,” the agency said in a statement.

The World Organisation for Animal Health was notified on December 1, it added.

Maybe mass vaccination of wildlife is the next step?

Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 status around the world
Posted by: daspyknows ()
Date: December 2, 2021 23:19

Quote
Nikkei
You know there's virologists who predicted that "immune pressure" from vaccinated individuals would cause it to evolve like that.

Proof? Who are these virologists? There are doctors who claim lots of nonsense like Scott Atlas or Stella Immanuel.

Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 status around the world
Posted by: skytrench ()
Date: December 2, 2021 23:36

Quote
daspyknows
Quote
Nikkei
You know there's virologists who predicted that "immune pressure" from vaccinated individuals would cause it to evolve like that.

Proof? Who are these virologists? There are doctors who claim lots of nonsense like Scott Atlas or Stella Immanuel.

It's common sense. When you have a vaccine that does not prevent widespread infections among the vaccinated, you are allowing the virus to develop under "immune pressure".

It can be compared to using weakened (overused) antibiotics against resistant bacterial infections that are unable to clear the disease. This can result in the development of even stronger bacterial resistance to antibiotic treatments. This has been a problem in Hospitals for some time now.

Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 status around the world
Posted by: angee ()
Date: December 2, 2021 23:52

"When you have a vaccine that does not prevent widespread infections among the vaccinated, you are allowing the virus to develop under "immune pressure".

??

These current vaccines *do* prevent widespread infections among the vaxxed, on the whole, from everything I've read.
Am I missing something?

~"Love is Strong"~

Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 status around the world
Posted by: terraplane ()
Date: December 2, 2021 23:53


Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 status around the world
Posted by: daspyknows ()
Date: December 2, 2021 23:59

Quote
skytrench
Quote
daspyknows
Quote
Nikkei
You know there's virologists who predicted that "immune pressure" from vaccinated individuals would cause it to evolve like that.

Proof? Who are these virologists? There are doctors who claim lots of nonsense like Scott Atlas or Stella Immanuel.

It's common sense. When you have a vaccine that does not prevent widespread infections among the vaccinated, you are allowing the virus to develop under "immune pressure".

It can be compared to using weakened (overused) antibiotics against resistant bacterial infections that are unable to clear the disease. This can result in the development of even stronger bacterial resistance to antibiotic treatments. This has been a problem in Hospitals for some time now.

Are you a scientist or virologist? If not this is your opinion. Everyone has one, lust like everyone has an a$$hole. What is your suggestion to the problem? No vaccines?

Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 status around the world
Posted by: NICOS ()
Date: December 3, 2021 00:15

Quote
daspyknows
Quote
skytrench
Quote
daspyknows
Quote
Nikkei
You know there's virologists who predicted that "immune pressure" from vaccinated individuals would cause it to evolve like that.

Proof? Who are these virologists? There are doctors who claim lots of nonsense like Scott Atlas or Stella Immanuel.

It's common sense. When you have a vaccine that does not prevent widespread infections among the vaccinated, you are allowing the virus to develop under "immune pressure".

It can be compared to using weakened (overused) antibiotics against resistant bacterial infections that are unable to clear the disease. This can result in the development of even stronger bacterial resistance to antibiotic treatments. This has been a problem in Hospitals for some time now.


Are you a scientist or virologist? If not this is your opinion. Everyone has one, lust like everyone has an a$$hole. What is your suggestion to the problem? No vaccines?

My suggestion is only vaccinate the old and weak people....and let every body get immune naturally that's how nature works.

Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 status around the world
Posted by: skytrench ()
Date: December 3, 2021 00:22

Quote
daspyknows
Are you a scientist or virologist? If not this is your opinion. Everyone has one, lust like everyone has an a$$hole. What is your suggestion to the problem? No vaccines?

Could you stick to the subject and not the person? I won't speculate nor elaborate about who I think you are. Are we here to discuss or insult?

Obviously, vaccines can help protect the vulnerable from serious illness. Overdoing it by vaccinating everyone with a partially effective vaccine will result in the problems mentioned.

Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 status around the world
Posted by: daspyknows ()
Date: December 3, 2021 00:53

Quote
skytrench
Quote
daspyknows
Are you a scientist or virologist? If not this is your opinion. Everyone has one, lust like everyone has an a$$hole. What is your suggestion to the problem? No vaccines?

Could you stick to the subject and not the person? I won't speculate nor elaborate about who I think you are. Are we here to discuss or insult?

Obviously, vaccines can help protect the vulnerable from serious illness. Overdoing it by vaccinating everyone with a partially effective vaccine will result in the problems mentioned.

Lets agree to disagree. You may think the vaccine is partially effective, I consider this like the influenza vaccines. Unless you believe the vaccines are the cause influenza strains then this is the same thing. The vaccines are keeping people out of the hospitals, morgues and crematoriums. Isn't that the goal here?

Have you been vaccinated? This IS an important question because someone's unwillingness to get vaccinated is directly correlated to their spewing of anti-vaccination disinformation.

Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 status around the world
Posted by: skytrench ()
Date: December 3, 2021 01:26

Quote
daspyknows
Lets agree to disagree. You may think the vaccine is partially effective, I consider this like the influenza vaccines. Unless you believe the vaccines are the cause influenza strains then this is the same thing. The vaccines are keeping people out of the hospitals, morgues and crematoriums. Isn't that the goal here?

Have you been vaccinated? This IS an important question because someone's unwillingness to get vaccinated is directly correlated to their spewing of anti-vaccination disinformation.

I agree to compare with the partially effective influenza vaccines. A major difference is there is no global policy to vaccinate everyone with them. So less "vaccine immune pressure" on the mutation of new strains of influenza. Although new influenza strains can develop in a vaccinated individual.

Marek's disease as terraplane brought up is very relevant and alarming, if applied to Covid-19, it means mankind risks having to be continually vaccinated to survive. In that case the current strategy is flawed with nasty implications for the future. We can hope that 'non-leaky' Covid vaccines can be developed in future, but until then it's looking like a risky path.

Just because you don't agree, it does not make me a spewer of disinformation more than yourself. My vaccination status should not have any bearing on this discussion and I will not disclose my medical situation for privacy reasons.

Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 status around the world
Posted by: kovach ()
Date: December 3, 2021 03:51

Quote
treaclefingers
Quote
bv
Norway Government press conference today just finished, following new info about how fast Omicron is spreading, basically through air to more than 50% of all people in the same room as one person being infected: Mask mandate, max 100 people at private parties, max 600 people at indoor public events.

The new variant Omicron is a game changer, multiple times faster in spreading, if you are in the same room as a person infected with Omicron, the chance is more than 50% you will get covid-19, even if you are fully vaccinated.

No info yet on the severity of this version of the virus from the conference?

Hoping that in addition to faster spread it is a much less serious version, which moves us to a 'manageable', endemic stage.

I've seen a few doctors on TV that claim that is the typical mutation but not always, so we shall see.

Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 status around the world
Posted by: Halup ()
Date: December 3, 2021 04:44

Quote
angee
"When you have a vaccine that does not prevent widespread infections among the vaccinated, you are allowing the virus to develop under "immune pressure".

??

These current vaccines *do* prevent widespread infections among the vaxxed, on the whole, from everything I've read.
Am I missing something?

I think Bjornulf’s article about 50-60 vaccinated people getting Covid at the party with 120 in attendance does make one question how well vaccines are preventing infection.

I also question how and why Iceland, with over 90% of adults and more than 80% of their entire population vaccinated, was recently added to the CDC’s list of European countries for Americans not to visit. Those percentages should have created herd immunity in that nation, yet they are now considered dangerous to visit.

Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 status around the world
Posted by: terraplane ()
Date: December 3, 2021 04:46

As far as I understand, the vaccines only target a single protein which is why the virus can easily (?) mutate around it.

Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 status around the world
Posted by: daspyknows ()
Date: December 3, 2021 05:16

Quote
skytrench
Quote
daspyknows
Lets agree to disagree. You may think the vaccine is partially effective, I consider this like the influenza vaccines. Unless you believe the vaccines are the cause influenza strains then this is the same thing. The vaccines are keeping people out of the hospitals, morgues and crematoriums. Isn't that the goal here?

Have you been vaccinated? This IS an important question because someone's unwillingness to get vaccinated is directly correlated to their spewing of anti-vaccination disinformation.

I agree to compare with the partially effective influenza vaccines. A major difference is there is no global policy to vaccinate everyone with them. So less "vaccine immune pressure" on the mutation of new strains of influenza. Although new influenza strains can develop in a vaccinated individual.

Marek's disease as terraplane brought up is very relevant and alarming, if applied to Covid-19, it means mankind risks having to be continually vaccinated to survive. In that case the current strategy is flawed with nasty implications for the future. We can hope that 'non-leaky' Covid vaccines can be developed in future, but until then it's looking like a risky path.

Just because you don't agree, it does not make me a spewer of disinformation more than yourself. My vaccination status should not have any bearing on this discussion and I will not disclose my medical situation for privacy reasons.

Actually your vaccination status does matter. Those who are not vaccinated who are spreading anti vaccination "information" (you know like alternate facts) are spreading their opinions. The degree of opinion does vary but doctors and scientists I know and respect do not agree.

Your unwillingness to discuss your vaccination status seems more like someone taking the fifth amendment. As a former President once said "only guilty people take the fifth". You take your risks I will take mine and that includes vaccinations.

Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 status around the world
Posted by: treaclefingers ()
Date: December 3, 2021 05:41

Quote
daspyknows
Quote
skytrench
Quote
daspyknows
Quote
Nikkei
You know there's virologists who predicted that "immune pressure" from vaccinated individuals would cause it to evolve like that.

Proof? Who are these virologists? There are doctors who claim lots of nonsense like Scott Atlas or Stella Immanuel.

It's common sense. When you have a vaccine that does not prevent widespread infections among the vaccinated, you are allowing the virus to develop under "immune pressure".

It can be compared to using weakened (overused) antibiotics against resistant bacterial infections that are unable to clear the disease. This can result in the development of even stronger bacterial resistance to antibiotic treatments. This has been a problem in Hospitals for some time now.

Are you a scientist or virologist? If not this is your opinion. Everyone has one, lust like everyone has an a$$hole. What is your suggestion to the problem? No vaccines?

I think there's something to this, but just as with bacterial resistance, no one is suggesting DON'T take penicillin.

This is perhaps one of those things that just show what a precarious position we're in with this virus. Best to just vaxxed and lower the probability of variants overall. True you may get some variants being 'created' out of the vaccinated...maybe, but then we develop a vaccine to neutralize that until it ain't no big deal. It ends up like any flu. At that point we can even call it the Co Flu! Win win!

Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 status around the world
Posted by: bv ()
Date: December 3, 2021 09:20

The MAIN purpose of the vaccine is to avoid serious illness and death. Norway have record numbers of covid-19 infections now, especially among young people. Still the number of people in hospitals and on ventilators are acceptable, even if it is high. This is due to the high vaccination rate.

No vaccine experts ever said the vaccine would prevent getting infected, the purpose of the vaccine should be (1) SAFE and (2) EFFECTIVE VS AVOIDING SERIOUS ILLNESS. The vaccine will stop the initial covid-19 variant ("wuhan" version), not so much Alpha, Delta, and certainly not Omicron. But it seems like the vaccine do still protect people and the health system from collapsing.

So far none of the 60 or so people in Norway infected with the new Omicron variant have had any serious illness. They are all fully vaccinated.

The complications from getting covid-19 might be far worse for totally healthy people, vs the rare side effects of the vaccine.

Bjornulf

Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 status around the world
Posted by: terraplane ()
Date: December 3, 2021 10:18

Eating dirt still might be safer than the Fauci ouchi:

Abstract 10712: Mrna COVID Vaccines Dramatically Increase Endothelial Inflammatory Markers and ACS Risk as Measured by the PULS Cardiac Test: a Warning

Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 status around the world
Posted by: MAF ()
Date: December 3, 2021 10:28

Quote
bv
The MAIN purpose of the vaccine is to avoid serious illness and death. Norway have record numbers of covid-19 infections now, especially among young people. Still the number of people in hospitals and on ventilators are acceptable, even if it is high. This is due to the high vaccination rate.

No vaccine experts ever said the vaccine would prevent getting infected, the purpose of the vaccine should be (1) SAFE and (2) EFFECTIVE VS AVOIDING SERIOUS ILLNESS. The vaccine will stop the initial covid-19 variant ("wuhan" version), not so much Alpha, Delta, and certainly not Omicron. But it seems like the vaccine do still protect people and the health system from collapsing.

So far none of the 60 or so people in Norway infected with the new Omicron variant have had any serious illness. They are all fully vaccinated.

The complications from getting covid-19 might be far worse for totally healthy people, vs the rare side effects of the vaccine.
Yes, exactly.
Unvaccinated people who got infected block intensive care units. Other people who are waiting for an urgent operation cannot be operated - children, cancer patients etc. They are secondary covid victims. Health systems are collapsing right now at some places. The personal in the intensive care units has been working at the absolute limit for more than a year. Get vaccinated - f***ng hell.

Some statistics: 0.8 % of the infected people will die. Chance for people in the intensive care unit in an artificial coma to survive: 50:50



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2021-12-03 10:41 by MAF.

Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 status around the world
Posted by: daspyknows ()
Date: December 3, 2021 19:44

Quote
terraplane
Eating dirt still might be safer than the Fauci ouchi:

Abstract 10712: Mrna COVID Vaccines Dramatically Increase Endothelial Inflammatory Markers and ACS Risk as Measured by the PULS Cardiac Test: a Warning

You are welcome to eat lead and arsenic laced dirt. The cardiac problems from people infected by Covid are much more common than heart problems due to the vaccine.

One is playing a form of Russian roulette, the other is like getting struck by lightning. Easy choice IMHO.

Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 status around the world
Posted by: skytrench ()
Date: December 3, 2021 21:31

Quote
daspyknows
You are welcome to eat lead and arsenic laced dirt.

So that was the reason you posted that article about 'Magic dirt'



Next time just post the link, instead of spamming the thread.

Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 status around the world
Posted by: daspyknows ()
Date: December 3, 2021 21:56

Quote
skytrench
Quote
daspyknows
You are welcome to eat lead and arsenic laced dirt.

So that was the reason you posted that article about 'Magic dirt'



Next time just post the link, instead of spamming the thread.

Actually just wanted to give you options since you believe vaccines are not safe. If you think that's spamming, oh well.

Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 status around the world
Posted by: NICOS ()
Date: December 4, 2021 00:05

You both would make a fabulous duet for a Netflix film...and I know who will win.......... cool smiley

__________________________

Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 status around the world
Posted by: Aquamarine ()
Date: December 4, 2021 00:34

Quote
Halup


I think Bjornulf’s article about 50-60 vaccinated people getting Covid at the party with 120 in attendance does make one question how well vaccines are preventing infection.

Nobody ever claimed Vaccines prevent infection!! Their purpose is to prevent you from becoming very sick or dying if you DO get infected!

Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 status around the world
Posted by: daspyknows ()
Date: December 4, 2021 00:44

Quote
Aquamarine
Quote
Halup


I think Bjornulf’s article about 50-60 vaccinated people getting Covid at the party with 120 in attendance does make one question how well vaccines are preventing infection.

Nobody ever claimed Vaccines prevent infection!! Their purpose is to prevent you from becoming very sick or dying if you DO get infected!

It's obvious some people don't get it and lack any personal context or experience. I for one really wish I could have had the choice of a vaccine before I caught it. Being sick from Covid was one of the worst experiences in my life.

Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 status around the world
Posted by: terraplane ()
Date: December 4, 2021 00:45

Quote
Aquamarine
Quote
Halup


I think Bjornulf’s article about 50-60 vaccinated people getting Covid at the party with 120 in attendance does make one question how well vaccines are preventing infection.

Nobody ever claimed Vaccines prevent infection!! Their purpose is to prevent you from becoming very sick or dying if you DO get infected!

"You're not going to get COVID if you have these vaccinations," Biden said in the CNN interview.

"This is a simple, basic proposition: If you’re vaccinated, you’re not going to be hospitalized, you’re not going to be in an ICU unit, and you’re not going to die," he said.

The Daily Sun

Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 status around the world
Posted by: Halup ()
Date: December 4, 2021 01:48

Quote
Aquamarine
Quote
Halup


I think Bjornulf’s article about 50-60 vaccinated people getting Covid at the party with 120 in attendance does make one question how well vaccines are preventing infection.

Nobody ever claimed Vaccines prevent infection!! Their purpose is to prevent you from becoming very sick or dying if you DO get infected!

That’s not exactly correct, at least in the U.S. In late 2020 and into early 2021, the Pfizer and Moderna, and later on, the J&J, were discussed by the media as to their effectiveness in blocking people people from getting the virus and their effectiveness in preventing hospitalization or death. The media led people to feel that the 94-95% effectiveness touted by Pfizer and Moderna meant that only had roughly a 5% chance of catching the virus if they came into contact with someone who was infected.

When the Delta surge showed that breakthrough cases were far greater than they had been pre Delta, the narrative changed to be that the vaccines were designed to prevent hospitalization and death.

I’m not disputing the vaccines effectiveness in preventing serious cases. No one ever said if you are vaccinated you can’t get Covid, but 6-12 months ago, experts were still emphasizing the extremely low odds of catching Covid if you are vaccinated.

I believe this is what created the over confidence in vaccinated people that it’s stupid to continue wearing masks in public. I consistently see online people complain about mask mandates, especially when attending events where they have to show they are vaccinated. They just aren’t getting the message that the vaccines are only one of the things to help and are best combined with masks. Do you really think those 50-60 people that got infected at that party ever thought they would get Covid at a vaccinated only party? The media fueled that over confidence.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021-12-04 01:58 by Halup.

Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 status around the world
Posted by: daspyknows ()
Date: December 4, 2021 02:26

Quote
Halup
Quote
Aquamarine
Quote
Halup


I think Bjornulf’s article about 50-60 vaccinated people getting Covid at the party with 120 in attendance does make one question how well vaccines are preventing infection.

Nobody ever claimed Vaccines prevent infection!! Their purpose is to prevent you from becoming very sick or dying if you DO get infected!

That’s not exactly correct, at least in the U.S. In late 2020 and into early 2021, the Pfizer and Moderna, and later on, the J&J, were discussed by the media as to their effectiveness in blocking people people from getting the virus and their effectiveness in preventing hospitalization or death. The media led people to feel that the 94-95% effectiveness touted by Pfizer and Moderna meant that only had roughly a 5% chance of catching the virus if they came into contact with someone who was infected.

When the Delta surge showed that breakthrough cases were far greater than they had been pre Delta, the narrative changed to be that the vaccines were designed to prevent hospitalization and death.

I’m not disputing the vaccines effectiveness in preventing serious cases. No one ever said if you are vaccinated you can’t get Covid, but 6-12 months ago, experts were still emphasizing the extremely low odds of catching Covid if you are vaccinated.

I believe this is what created the over confidence in vaccinated people that it’s stupid to continue wearing masks in public. I consistently see online people complain about mask mandates, especially when attending events where they have to show they are vaccinated. They just aren’t getting the message that the vaccines are only one of the things to help and are best combined with masks. Do you really think those 50-60 people that got infected at that party ever thought they would get Covid at a vaccinated only party? The media fueled that over confidence.

This was a novel virus. We are all in uncharted territory. What is true is most of those hospitalized and in morgues are unvaccinated. The recommendations given are based on knowledge and the variants at a point in time. Things change and people need to use their brains. The vaccines were always designed to prevent hospitalizations and deaths and that was the original message. There was also a question on length of immunity from day 1. Now they know more. In 6 months they will learn and know more.

Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 status around the world
Posted by: NICOS ()
Date: December 4, 2021 02:28

Quote
Aquamarine
Quote
Halup


I think Bjornulf’s article about 50-60 vaccinated people getting Covid at the party with 120 in attendance does make one question how well vaccines are preventing infection.

Nobody ever claimed Vaccines prevent infection!! Their purpose is to prevent you from becoming very sick or dying if you DO get infected!

Your correct speaking a few months ago ...but not when they start the vaccinations....at least in my country....I had a lot of friends family that showed there QR code proudly....so I'm protected against Covid

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