I don't understand why Dr. Leana Wen would be concerned that her kids of 1 and 3 are not vaccinated. They are not part of the risk group.

People say "Follow the science." The only problem is figuring out which science to follow. Personally, I was moved at the sight of Vice President Harris and her husband, both fully vaccinated and living in the same house, kissing each other goodbye - through their masks. That says it all.

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Aquamarine
Far from this rule providing an incentive for people to get vaccinated, I think it will have exactly the opposite effect Now people can just freely not wear the mask they weren't going to wear anyway, nobody's going to check whether they're vaccinated or not..

I believe that those who rebelled against the masks were/are more against it because of the mandate, and the general politicalization of the issue.

Also believe just the opposite is going to occur in the private sector when it comes to checking on wether or not people are vaccinated. Many employers are requiring vaccination proof, and as non-vaxxed people are still required to wear masks, airlines, concerts, and other large events will likely require proof as well.

Went to a packed grocery store this morning and only saw one non-mask wearer, and everyone was lining up six feet apart.
Things aren't changing overnight.. despite what the critics and some tv analysts predict.

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skytrench
I don't understand why Dr. Leana Wen would be concerned that her kids of 1 and 3 are not vaccinated. They are not part of the risk group.

Yeah.. doesn't bode very well for her credibility on the issue.

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Big Al

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skytrench

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Big Al
He is a doddery old thing, though. Very frail.

Since taking office he looks rejuvenated and more stylish than before. Guess they are taking good care of the president.

I do like his voice, admittedly. In his younger years, he was probably quite the eloquent orator.

He gave an eloquent eulogy at the funeral of Senator Robert Byrd (who was a Grand Dragon of the KKK).

"If you don't vote for me, you ain't black." - Joe Biden

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bleedingman
People say "Follow the science." The only problem is figuring out which science to follow. Personally, I was moved at the sight of Vice President Harris and her husband, both fully vaccinated and living in the same house, kissing each other goodbye - through their masks. That says it all.

There is flat earth science versus round earth science. Believe what you want. It is pretty obvious to most the earth is round.

What does VP Harris kissing her husband through a mask say? When did you see that?

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skytrench

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For those in the U.S. Why is Biden wearing a covering, whilst in the company of fellow fully-vaccinated people? I understand this is causing debate stateside. I'm guessing there's a reason.

Bad breath?

Maybe Science wasn't one of his strong points in school:

Biden 76th out of 85

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MisterDDDD

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Aquamarine
Far from this rule providing an incentive for people to get vaccinated, I think it will have exactly the opposite effect Now people can just freely not wear the mask they weren't going to wear anyway, nobody's going to check whether they're vaccinated or not..

I believe that those who rebelled against the masks were/are more against it because of the mandate, and the general politicalization of the issue.

Also believe just the opposite is going to occur in the private sector when it comes to checking on wether or not people are vaccinated. Many employers are requiring vaccination proof, and as non-vaxxed people are still required to wear masks, airlines, concerts, and other large events will likely require proof as well.

Went to a packed grocery store this morning and only saw one non-mask wearer, and everyone was lining up six feet apart.
Things aren't changing overnight.. despite what the critics and some tv analysts predict.

Yes, I'm sure that's why they were against it, too. That's my point, they're certainly not going to wear one now that there isn't even a rule to flout, and nobody will know that they're not vaccinated or who the people to steer clear of are. The private sector is a different issue, but just in general terms this revising of the mask guidelines isn't going to persuade anyone to get vaccinated, it's more likely to make them feel pleased with themselves that they didn't and now they can quit wearing a mask like the people who did.

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Aquamarine

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MisterDDDD

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Aquamarine
Far from this rule providing an incentive for people to get vaccinated, I think it will have exactly the opposite effect Now people can just freely not wear the mask they weren't going to wear anyway, nobody's going to check whether they're vaccinated or not..

I believe that those who rebelled against the masks were/are more against it because of the mandate, and the general politicalization of the issue.

Also believe just the opposite is going to occur in the private sector when it comes to checking on wether or not people are vaccinated. Many employers are requiring vaccination proof, and as non-vaxxed people are still required to wear masks, airlines, concerts, and other large events will likely require proof as well.

Went to a packed grocery store this morning and only saw one non-mask wearer, and everyone was lining up six feet apart.
Things aren't changing overnight.. despite what the critics and some tv analysts predict.

Yes, I'm sure that's why they were against it, too. That's my point, they're certainly not going to wear one now that there isn't even a rule to flout, and nobody will know that they're not vaccinated or who the people to steer clear of are. The private sector is a different issue, but just in general terms this revising of the mask guidelines isn't going to persuade anyone to get vaccinated, it's more likely to make them feel pleased with themselves that they didn't and now they can quit wearing a mask like the people who did.

Maybe.
I think it will have the opposite effect.
Guess that's the gamble.

The non-maskers and vaccine hesitant will see how much has opened up for vaccinated people and want to get in on that. The consternation and political attention they received from not wearing masks etc will be mostly gone, people able to travel and go to shows/trips they are unable to, will send them scurrying to get the jab.

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skytrench
I don't understand why Dr. Leana Wen would be concerned that her kids of 1 and 3 are not vaccinated. They are not part of the risk group.

She went on to say:

"It's true that kids tend to get much less severely ill from Covid-19 than adults, but children can and do get ill.
For our family, we are fine with our kids playing outdoors with other kids, without masks, but indoors,
they should still wear masks if there are adults or children around them who are unvaccinated".

Seems she's concerned that if they do become infected - as mild as the symptoms might be, they can still spread it to others who have not been able to get vaccinated yet.

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Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

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Hairball

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skytrench
I don't understand why Dr. Leana Wen would be concerned that her kids of 1 and 3 are not vaccinated. They are not part of the risk group.

Seems she's concerned that if they do become infected - as mild as the symptoms might be, they can still spread it to others who have not been able to get vaccinated yet.

That raises the question as to what extent a vaccinated person who contracts Covid , as mild and short lasting as their symptoms might be, can still spread it to others.

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kovach

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skytrench

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For those in the U.S. Why is Biden wearing a covering, whilst in the company of fellow fully-vaccinated people? I understand this is causing debate stateside. I'm guessing there's a reason.

Bad breath?

Maybe Science wasn't one of his strong points in school:

Biden 76th out of 85

Or the government wants attention on masks and away from all the disasters they created in such a short time?

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skytrench

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Hairball

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skytrench
I don't understand why Dr. Leana Wen would be concerned that her kids of 1 and 3 are not vaccinated. They are not part of the risk group.

Seems she's concerned that if they do become infected - as mild as the symptoms might be, they can still spread it to others who have not been able to get vaccinated yet.

That raises the question as to what extent a vaccinated person who contracts Covid , as mild and short lasting as their symptoms might be, can still spread it to others.

Not sure as I'm not an expert as some here pretend to be, but she was referring to her kids who have not been vaccinated.

Generally speaking for the vaccinated, I would imagine a vaccinated person who contacts covid can easily spread it to unvaccinated, and to a lesser degree those who have been vaccinated.
Story from yesterday regarding eight members of the New York Yankees who were vaccinated over two weeks ago, and all have tested positive.
They share the same clubhouse, locker room, etc., so I would guess it spread from one member to another - otherwise that's a major coincidence.

New York Yankees say 8 vaccinated members tested positive for Covid-19.

Eight members of the New York Yankees have tested positive for coronavirus this week despite being inoculated with the Johnson & Johnson vaccine, the baseball team said Thursday.
The eight infected Yankees include coaches, staff members and a player. Seven do not have symptoms, said Jason Zillo, the team's vice president of communications.
The Yankees said the eight infected members received the Johnson & Johnson vaccine at least two weeks ago.


Coronavirus

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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021-05-15 02:08 by Hairball.

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skytrench

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Hairball

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skytrench
I don't understand why Dr. Leana Wen would be concerned that her kids of 1 and 3 are not vaccinated. They are not part of the risk group.

Seems she's concerned that if they do become infected - as mild as the symptoms might be, they can still spread it to others who have not been able to get vaccinated yet.

That raises the question as to what extent a vaccinated person who contracts Covid , as mild and short lasting as their symptoms might be, can still spread it to others.

Raises the question of what she believes the primary goal is.
To stop Covid deaths and reach herd immunity. We can all still potentially spread it to the unvaccinated this we all know. this makes her comments even more out of touch.
All the more reason to get vaccinated, obviously.

Also, the data from studies is being compiled now.. and like my 15yo who just got her shot, the littles shots are coming, likely sooner rather than later.

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terraplane

Or the government wants attention on masks and away from all the disasters they created in such a short time?

Lol.
New prez, who dis?

Dr. Fauci weighed in yesterday with his thoughts on some of the maskless controversy in an interview with CNN's Jake Tapper:

The Mask

When pressed by Tapper on if public places like restaurants, bars and bowling alleys should let vaccinated people in without masks, Fauci said "that's going to be a real difficult one," because of the pushback that may come with asking people if they have been vaccinated. "People feel very put upon if you're essentially judging them on the basis of whether they have been vaccinated," Fauci said. "We want vaccinated - we want people to get vaccinated - as many people as we can possibly get vaccinated, but I think there's going to be a pushback against questioning somebody when they walk in, because you can never validate or prove that they're telling you the truth," he continued. Fauci added that this situation is "virtually a functional equivalent of a vaccine passport," adding "I don't think that's going to work."

He gave a similar response when asked if local and state governments should drop mask mandates for vaccinated people, telling Tapper it is a "dicey situation." "Well, for people who are vaccinated, that's another story. But the problem they're going to find, Jake, from a public health standpoint, since you can't completely validate that someone's vaccinated except depending upon them telling you that, if you drop the mask mandate, then you might have an increase in infection among those who are not vaccinated," Fauci said. "So that's the kind of dicey situation that you're in when you're trying to deal about policy at the local level when you have a high degree of transmission. That's not an easy decision to make," he added.

CNN story and full interview:

"You're going to be depending on people being honest enough to say whether they were vaccinated or not"





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Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

"We want vaccinated - we want people to get vaccinated "- Fauci

Yup.. this oughta do it

More speculation on the eight members of the Yankees organization who have tested positive for coronavirus even though they were all vaccinated over two weeks ago:

"Eight members of the New York Yankees organization who were fully vaccinated against Covid-19 tested positive for the coronavirus this week.
And that news has led to a lot of people saying, wait, what"?

Yankees

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Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

The Yankees took the J & J vaccine which has been shown to be 72% effective in trials. 76% of the Yankees who took the vaccine has still tested negative.

Which means 24% of them tested positive after being vaccinated - or one of every four.
There was a segment about it on World News Tonight earlier this evening, and the story is appearing in many other news sources, including this lengthy one from the New York Times:

What to Know About the Yankees’ Coronavirus Outbreak

Gleyber Torres is the eighth person (and the first player) from the Yankees organization to test positive for the coronavirus this week. All had been vaccinated.

NY Times/Yankees

By James Wagner
Published May 13, 2021Updated May 14, 2021, 11:19 a.m. ET

“I believe the variant that we’re dealing with has been pretty aggressive,” - General Manager Brian Cashman

Gleyber Torres, the Yankees’ two-time All-Star shortstop, became the eighth person involved with the Yankees organization to test positive for the coronavirus this week, the team announced on Thursday. But what has caught the attention of many outside of the baseball world is that Torres, three coaches and four support staff members had all been fully vaccinated. Torres played on Tuesday against the Tampa Bay Rays, but he was held out of Wednesday’s game as his virus test results were pending. Before Thursday’s game, the team announced that Torres had a confirmed positive test. As a result, Torres might be away from the Yankees for 10 days based on the health and safety protocols negotiated by Major League Baseball and the players’ union.

Here’s what is going on: What do we know?

The Yankees’ outbreak began on Sunday, when the team, after spending over a week in New York hosting home games, flew to Florida to play the Tampa Bay Rays and learned that Phil Nevin, their third base coach, had tested positive for the virus. The Yankees began extensive virus testing on Monday, a scheduled day off, and put people deemed to have had close contact with Nevin into isolation. To be safe, and in consultation with a joint committee of M.L.B. and players’ union experts, the team also isolated a few employees who fell into a gray area. Nevin initially had some symptoms but was considered symptom-free by Thursday, General Manager Brian Cashman said. After Tuesday’s game, the Yankees announced that the number of confirmed positive results had grown to three. The two new people: the first base coach, Reggie Willits, who was already in isolation, and an unidentified support staff member. Before Wednesday’s game, Manager Aaron Boone said those with confirmed positive tests had grown to seven: three coaches — the pitching coach, Matt Blake; Willits; and Nevin — plus four unidentified support staff members. A day later, Torres joined their ranks. All eight people were in isolation in the Tampa area, either at the team hotel or in their own homes. The Yankees’ spring training complex is there, so some players and staff members have off-season homes in the area. Everyone in the Yankees’ traveling party of 50 to 60 people is being tested three times a day using polymerase chain reaction, saliva and rapid tests. Thursday was the first day of no new positive test results since the outbreak began, Cashman said. “Maybe it’s slowing down,” he said.

What is a breakthrough case?

The Yankees have called all eight instances “breakthrough positives.” According to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, a breakthrough case occurs when a fully vaccinated person contracts the virus. It said a small number of such cases would be expected despite the effectiveness of vaccines, because none of the vaccines are capable of preventing illness in 100 percent of cases. “Even though a small percentage of fully vaccinated people will get sick, vaccination will protect most people from getting sick,” the C.D.C.’s website says. “There also is some evidence that vaccination may make illness less severe in people who get vaccinated but still get sick. Despite this, some fully vaccinated people will still be hospitalized and die.” The C.D.C. said that as of April 26, of the more than 95 million people in the United States who had been fully vaccinated, it knew of 9,245 breakthrough infections. Of those, there were 835 hospitalizations and 132 deaths. Beginning on Friday, though, the C.D.C. said it would change the way it reported breakthrough infections to only those who were hospitalized or died — the two most severe outcomes from contracting Covid-19. In other words, the Yankees’ cases wouldn’t fall under that category going forward.

How did this happen? That was not immediately clear.

Even though several players across M.L.B. have been reluctant to be vaccinated, the Yankees had been enjoying relaxed health and safety protocols under rules negotiated by M.L.B. and the players’ union for reaching a threshold at which 85 percent of the team’s players and key personnel were fully vaccinated. In fact, Boone said on Thursday that the Yankees had very few people who weren’t vaccinated. The rewards included, among other things, allowing the team to go without masks in the dugout and the bullpen, along with indoor dining and having visitors at the team hotel. The Yankees were growing more comfortable with this semblance of normal life but had reverted to stricter mask wearing and more distancing since the outbreak began. When asked about a possible common thread among the positive cases, Cashman pointed to a long rain delay before a game at Yankee Stadium on Saturday and said that players had a much larger clubhouse space indoors to spread out in compared to what the coaches and the support staff had. A day later, the team flew to Tampa. “I believe the variant that we’re dealing with has been pretty aggressive,” Cashman said, without identifying the variant. (M.L.B., through its lab in Salt Lake City, has been sequencing all cases during the pandemic and had previously noticed the more contagious variant of the virus first identified in Britain that is now prevalent in the United States.)

Dr. Rochelle P. Walensky, the C.D.C.’s director, said on Thursday that the agency wanted to learn more about the Yankees’ outbreak. She pointed to the fact that six of the Yankees’ seven cases as of Wednesday were asymptomatic, suggesting that proved that the vaccine was indeed effective. Cashman said M.L.B. was in touch with the C.D.C. and that the Yankees were working directly with the New York State Department of Health concerning their outbreak. In a statement, the Department of Health said it had been in contact with M.L.B. and the Yankees to better understand the situation. “While there have been anecdotal reports of New Yorkers who have had a positive Covid test 14 or more days after receiving their last vaccine dose,” the statement said, “D.O.H. is investigating those cases along with the ones linked to the Yankees further to determine if they meet the formal C.D.C. definition of vaccine breakthrough.”

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Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

What you need to know about the CDC’s new mask guidelines
By
Laurie McGinley and
Lenny Bernstein



The announcement by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention on Thursday that people who have been fully vaccinated against the coronavirus no longer need to wear masks in most places was hailed as the path to liberation for many who have endured through the strictures of the pandemic. But the new recommendations also raised an array of questions and complications for businesses, consumers and parents — and the answers might not be clear for some time.

Does the new CDC recommendation mean that if I am vaccinated I no longer have to wear a mask anywhere?

No. The CDC wants vaccinated people to wear masks in health-care settings and on planes, buses, trains and other public transportation. Also, everyone will have to abide by state and local mandates to wear masks where they remain in place. Businesses and other private entities can still require employees and patrons to wear masks, and some are likely to do so.

Some critics have said the guidance creates confusion because it allows fully vaccinated people to go maskless in grocery stores, restaurants and gyms but not on airplanes and trains. Henry Walke, a CDC medical officer who has been leading the agency’s coronavirus response since last July, acknowledged that the lines are not completely clear.

But he said the CDC believes that fully vaccinated people are protected, “and the risk is to the unvaccinated people.” The difference, he said, comes down to an individual’s ability to choose settings. On an airplane or train, people are “unable to make choices about who is sitting near them for a period of time,” he said.

The CDC also did not address schools. For children under 12 who cannot be vaccinated yet, it is unclear how they and their teachers should behave. Schools are beginning to figure that out. For 12-to-15-year-olds, vaccination is just beginning, so many academic terms will have ended before adolescents are two weeks beyond their second shots. Policies should be in place for the fall. Children are much less likely to develop covid-19, the illness caused by the virus, than adults.

Who will enforce the new recommendation that only people who are vaccinated go without masks?

Also unclear. The only way to know for sure whether someone is vaccinated is if the government, businesses or others require documentation. The Biden administration has been reluctant to go in that direction, and owners of restaurants, bars, gyms, movie theaters and other indoor venues naturally do not want to become the mask police.

But they may want to keep some rules in place to protect customers and employees. The CDC is assuming, based on scientific data, that even if someone nearby isn’t vaccinated, people who are fully vaccinated have enough protection to be confident they are safe.
The bottom line, several analysts said, is that the guidance relies on an “honor code” that Americans may or may not adhere to.

What does this mean for stores?

Target, Home Depot, Harris Teeter and Wegmans Food Markets are among the chains that will continue to require masks in store, though they are reviewing the new CDC guidance and reevaluating store policies.

Others, such as Trader Joe’s and Walmart, have updated their policies and will no longer require fully vaccinated shoppers to wear masks, though it is unclear how the retailers will determine which shoppers have been inoculated.

Lisa LaBruno, a top official with the Retail Industry Leaders Association, which represents retailers, complained in a statement that the CDC announcement on masks “creates ambiguity for retailers because it fails to fully align with state and local orders.” She urged customers “to follow a store’s safety protocols including wearing a mask and social distancing. Frontline workers deserve this respect.

What about restaurants and other businesses?

Restaurants, like other businesses, will have to continue to follow state and local mask mandates, to the extent they still exist.

Many might err on the side of caution and continue to require masks for all patrons and workers, regardless of their vaccine status, said Rogge Dunn, a business employment lawyer in Dallas. That could avoid potential shutdowns or reputational damage from a coronavirus outbreak.

In addition, such “bright-line rules” for restaurants could avoid possible conflicts with customers over trying to verify vaccination status at the door, Dunn said. “Customers might say, ‘I left [my document] at home, or it’s in my purse, or the car. And if you don’t believe me, I’ll go someplace else,’” he said.

But some businesses immediately relaxed their mask policies.
In Nevada, where the state dropped its mask mandate Thursday, casinos began changing their requirements. Wynn Las Vegas said in a statement that guests would no longer be required to wear masks in public spaces if they are fully vaccinated, while unvaccinated guests still will be required to have them. “The resort trusts guests to take the appropriate precautions based on their personal vaccination status,” Wynn said.

In addition, the company said, employees who can show they have been vaccinated will not be required to wear a mask at the resort, as they have been previously. Those who have not provided such verification will be required to wear masks.

Lorraine M. Martin, president of the National Safety Council, a group of 16,000 U.S. businesses and organizations, said the CDC’s revision “is going to be both helpful and something we have to figure out and navigate.”

For the relatively few employers that are requiring workers to be vaccinated, Martin said, the ability to shed masks will make work environments seem more like they were before the pandemic. But most companies have not required vaccination, she added, so work settings “are in a state of having both vaccinated and unvaccinated employees. The protocols are going to need to be different for them, because it’s an environment where we can’t verify the vaccination or not.”

The result, she said, is likely to be that fully vaccinated Americans will need to don a mask for work. Employers “have to play it safe so everyone continues to be safe,” Martin said.

How will essential workers be affected by the change?

Some worry that these employees — whose work often involves in-person, critical jobs that cannot be done from home — will be put at risk of interacting with unvaccinated people who choose to go without masks.

“Are we going to have a lie-detector test at the front door?” asked Marc Perrone, president of the United Food and Commercial Workers, whose union represents 1.3 million workers in meatpacking plants, grocery stores and nursing homes.

Thomas A. LaVeist, dean of the Tulane University School of Public Health and Tropical Medicine and co-chair of Louisiana’s covid-19 health equity task force, said he believes front-line workers, who are disproportionately people of color, will be indirectly affected by the federal government’s decision “because I think more companies will begin to mandate their employees get vaccinated.”

Overall, he said, the CDC decision was overdue. For people in the wait-and-see category on vaccination, which includes a significant number of Blacks and Latinos, the change is “a little bit more weight on the scale that tips it more toward getting vaccinated,” he said. “I don’t think it’s going to make everyone get vaccinated, but I think that some people will.”

Susana Morales, a primary care physician at Weill Cornell Medicine in New York, where she is also vice chair for diversity, said she visited the CDC’s website Friday and found a recipe for confusion: Mask-wearing rules were relaxed for individuals, but “it still has up there specific guidance for restaurant workers, for health-care workers and for other front-line workers that talks about masks.”

“When you think about why a lot of people of color and other folks were infected, it was because of being front-line workers,” she said, minutes after learning that a friend’s father had died of the coronavirus. “This is one of those issues where it’ll be really important for the CDC and [the Occupational Safety and Health Administration] and state level and local public health officials to think about exactly what to recommend for high-risk workplaces."

What are pediatricians telling parents?

Pediatricians are warning parents to remain vigilant because most children are still not eligible to be vaccinated.

For children under 12, Grace Lee, associate chief medical officer for practice innovation at Stanford Children’s Health, said she believes in continuing the guidance that has been followed for most of the pandemic. “Keep it outdoors, keep it small,” she said. “If I had kids under 12, I would want them to wear a mask in school. Wear a mask when we’re in a public space with a lot of people. And indoors, for sure I would have the mask.”

What is the risk to kids right now?

“Many people are responding to this new policy as if the pandemic is somehow over, and that’s just not true,” said John V. Williams, chief of the pediatric infectious diseases division at UPMC Children’s Hospital of Pittsburgh. Adolescents ages 12 to 15 were approved for the vaccine only this week, so few have any protection.

“The disease is transmitting and the risk of severe disease is low in children, but it’s not zero,” Williams said. He pointed out that more than 300 children have died of covid-19. And roughly 15,000 children have been hospitalized — far more than in a typical flu season.

“Parents should think about it like they think about car crashes,” Williams said. “Statistically, the risk of serious injury in a car accident is very, very low. But you better believe I make sure my kids put on a seat belt every time they get in the car.”

Bonnie Fass, a pediatrician with 30 years of experience in the Philadelphia region, welcomed the new CDC guidance even as, she said, it left parents having to make their own judgments according to their personal situations and the day-to-day circumstances they face.

“Would you take your child to a big, busy birthday party right now? I wouldn’t, masked or unmasked,” Fass said, explaining that she would continue to wear a mask in a grocery store and expects many parents would encourage their children to mask up.

Fass said she hopes further guidance will be issued that might help parents make decisions.

Susan Lipton, chief of pediatrics at Baltimore’s Sinai Hospital, also said she would advise parents to keep kids in masks in public and for vaccinated parents to model that behavior.
“It’s easier to keep them with the good habits they’ve learned,” Lipton said. “It’s the unknown that’s a big risk,” she said, particularly in crowded indoor situations like grocery aisles.

CDC’s Walke, responding to concerns among parents about risks to children under 12, said cases of covid-19 are dropping “so we have lower community transmission, so the probability of encountering someone who is infected is lower. With family members being vaccinated … that also provides a buffer.”

He also noted the new CDC policy applies only to people who are fully vaccinated. Unvaccinated people, including children, are supposed to wear a mask for a range of indoor activities — going to the barber shop, the grocery store, the gym.

How does the new mask recommendation affect people with compromised immune systems?

In some people with weakened immune systems — those on heavy duty cancer drugs, for example, or anti-rejection medications following organ transplants — coronavirus vaccines are less effective. The patients may not be fully protected even if they are fully vaccinated. That means they would be wise to keep wearing masks even after they get the shots, some doctors say.

Laura Makaroff, a senior vice president for the American Cancer Society, said immunocompromised patients should talk to their doctors about precautions they need to take. Until then, “they should follow previous guidance, which means masking in public settings,” she said.

What are the potential effects of the change?

Supporters, and even those who don’t entirely agree with the timing of the CDC decision, say it could be helpful by encouraging people to get vaccinated.

“If this leads to 5 or 10 percent more people being vaccinated than would have otherwise, then it’s a super-great call,” said Robert Wachter, chair of the department of medicine at the University of California at San Francisco. “Yeah, maybe a couple more people will get mild cases of covid from it. But it’s a reasonable thing to do and message how important vaccination is.”

Others think it will have no effect on vaccination rates.

“To my knowledge, there is no hard data suggesting that these recommendations will motivate people to get vaccinated,” said Megan Ranney, an emergency medicine physician and professor at Brown University. “I sure hope it will — but most of the research to date says that people aren’t getting vaccinated because of lack of knowledge about the vaccine or because of lack of access about the vaccine.”
[www.washingtonpost.com]

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daspyknows
The Yankees took the J & J vaccine which has been shown to be 72% effective in trials. 76% of the Yankees who took the vaccine has still tested negative.

Maybe it's wishful thinking, but as others have pointed out its somewhat consistent with the effective rate of that particular vaccine.

Hopefully no hospitalizations or God forbid deaths and it'll be consistent with the tests, which being later than others was hopefully tested against the latest strains.

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kovach

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daspyknows
The Yankees took the J & J vaccine which has been shown to be 72% effective in trials. 76% of the Yankees who took the vaccine has still tested negative.

Maybe it's wishful thinking, but as others have pointed out its somewhat consistent with the effective rate of that particular vaccine.

Hopefully no hospitalizations or God forbid deaths and it'll be consistent with the tests, which being later than others was hopefully tested against the latest strains.

Yeah hopefully no hospitalizations or deaths, but being that they're vaccinated that would seem unlikely, and aside from one who had some symptoms, the rest seem OK.
But now with mask requirements being eased, those infected Yankees could pass the virus on to others who aren't vaccinated such as those who are unable to get vaccinated,
or those who are vaccinated but are immunocompromised therefore more susceptible. As for the risk to anti-vaxxers, this is the gamble they've chosen to live with.

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Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

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terraplane

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kovach

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skytrench

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For those in the U.S. Why is Biden wearing a covering, whilst in the company of fellow fully-vaccinated people? I understand this is causing debate stateside. I'm guessing there's a reason.

Bad breath?

Maybe Science wasn't one of his strong points in school:

Biden 76th out of 85

Or the government wants attention on masks and away from all the disasters they created in such a short time?

Disasters like turning the corner on Covid.

No. More like the U.S. southern border, gas prices, bombing Syria as examples

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Hairball
Dr. Fauci weighed in yesterday with his thoughts on some of the maskless controversy in an interview with CNN's Jake Tapper:

The Mask

When pressed by Tapper on if public places like restaurants, bars and bowling alleys should let vaccinated people in without masks, Fauci said "that's going to be a real difficult one," because of the pushback that may come with asking people if they have been vaccinated. "People feel very put upon if you're essentially judging them on the basis of whether they have been vaccinated," Fauci said. "We want vaccinated - we want people to get vaccinated - as many people as we can possibly get vaccinated, but I think there's going to be a pushback against questioning somebody when they walk in, because you can never validate or prove that they're telling you the truth," he continued. Fauci added that this situation is "virtually a functional equivalent of a vaccine passport," adding "I don't think that's going to work."

He gave a similar response when asked if local and state governments should drop mask mandates for vaccinated people, telling Tapper it is a "dicey situation." "Well, for people who are vaccinated, that's another story. But the problem they're going to find, Jake, from a public health standpoint, since you can't completely validate that someone's vaccinated except depending upon them telling you that, if you drop the mask mandate, then you might have an increase in infection among those who are not vaccinated," Fauci said. "So that's the kind of dicey situation that you're in when you're trying to deal about policy at the local level when you have a high degree of transmission. That's not an easy decision to make," he added.

CNN story and full interview:

"You're going to be depending on people being honest enough to say whether they were vaccinated or not"

I don't know about the USA, but my wife and I received a written confirmation that we were vaccinated twice, both dates are merntioned as well as the type of vaccine. They suggested us to carry that confirmation with us (either as such or f.i. laminated) as to show that you've been vaccinated. People are obliged to have any type of identity card (passport, driving licence, ID card) with them at any time anyway when you're in public, so it's all easy to check. No secrets, no faking (well, there will always be a few brilliant people who can fake, but they will be among the 30% covidiots anyway).

I'm a GHOST living in a ghost town

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terraplane
No. More like the U.S. southern border, gas prices, bombing Syria as examples

Turn off Fox News.

Why the C.D.C. Changed Its Advice on Masks
Two scientific findings altered the calculus: Vaccinated people rarely transmit the virus, and the shots are effective against variants

Advice from federal health officials that fully vaccinated people could drop their masks in most settings came as a surprise to Americans, from state officials to scientific experts. Even the White House got less than a day’s notice from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, the press secretary, Jen Psaki, said at a news briefing on Friday.

“The C.D.C., the doctors and medical experts there, are the ones who determined what this guidance would be based on their own data, and what the timeline would be,” Ms. Psaki said. “That was not a decision directed by or made by the White House.”

For months, federal officials have vigorously warned that wearing masks and social distancing were necessary to contain the pandemic. So what changed?

Introducing the new recommendations on Thursday, Dr. Rochelle P. Walensky, the C.D.C. director, cited two recent scientific findings as significant factors: Few vaccinated people become infected with the virus, and transmission seems rarer still; and the vaccines appear to be effective against all known variants of the coronavirus.

There is no doubt at this point that the vaccines are powerful. On Friday, the C.D.C. released results from another large study showing that the vaccines made by Pfizer-BioNTech and Moderna are 94 percent effective in preventing symptomatic illness in those who were fully vaccinated, and 82 percent effective even in those only partly vaccinated.

“The science is quite clear on this,” said Zoë McLaren, a health policy expert at the University of Maryland, Baltimore County. Mounting evidence indicates that people who are vaccinated are highly unlikely to catch or transmit the virus, she noted.

The risk “is definitely not zero, but it’s clear that it’s very low,” she said.

One of the lingering concerns among scientists had been that even a vaccinated person might carry the virus — perhaps briefly, without symptoms — and spread it to others. But C.D.C. research, including the new study, has consistently found few infections among those who received the Pfizer-BioNTech and Moderna vaccines.

“This study, added to the many studies that preceded it, was pivotal to C.D.C. changing its recommendations for those who are fully vaccinated against Covid-19,” Dr. Walensky said in a statement on Friday.

Other recent studies confirm that people who are infected after vaccination carry too little virus to infect others, said Florian Krammer, a virologist at the Icahn School of Medicine at Mount Sinai.

“It’s really hard to even sequence the virus sometimes because there’s very little virus, and it’s there for a short period of time,” he said.

Still, most of the data has been gathered on the Pfizer-BioNTech and Moderna vaccines, Dr. Krammer cautioned. Because Johnson & Johnson’s vaccine was authorized later, there are fewer studies assessing its effectiveness.

In clinical trials, the Johnson & Johnson vaccine had 72 percent efficacy — lower than the figure for the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines. And effectiveness was measured in terms of moderate and severe disease, rather than mild disease.

“It’s a very good vaccine, and I’m sure it will save many, many, many lives,” Dr. Krammer said. “But we need more data on how well the J.&J. vaccine prevents infection, and how well it prevents transmission.”

Variants of the virus have been a particular worry for scientists. While Dr. Walensky cited evidence showing that the mRNA vaccines like those from Pfizer and Moderna are effective against the variants circulating in the United States, there is little data about variants and the Johnson & Johnson vaccine. And new variants are emerging constantly.

“I’m not at all saying that this is now a big problem,” Dr. Krammer said. But before lifting the masking requirements, “I might have waited a little bit longer to look at the numbers.”

In a statement on Friday, a C.D.C. spokesman said, “All of the authorized vaccines provide strong protection against serious illness, hospitalization, and death, and we are accumulating data that our authorized vaccines are effective against the variants that are circulating in this country.”

Fully immunized people are unlikely to get seriously ill, even if they are infected with the coronavirus. The risk of infection is greater for the people around them — unvaccinated children and adults, or vaccinated people who remain unprotected because of a medical condition or treatment.

C.D.C. officials said they weighed those factors and were confident in their assessment of the science. And the new advice has other salutary effects, rewarding fully immunized people by giving them permission to end their social isolation — and perhaps incentivizing others to opt for vaccination.

The new advice “signals that we really are on the final stretch here, and I think that’s a very good thing for people,” said Dr. Joshua Sharfstein, the vice dean for public health practice and community engagement at Johns Hopkins University Bloomberg School of Health.

“It’s unlikely that we’re going to have another huge surge in cases,” he added. “But will the final stretch last for weeks or months is still a question.”

The difficulty with the new recommendations, he and other experts said, is not so much the science underpinning them as their implementation.

Leaders at the state, city and county levels still have the authority to require masks even for vaccinated people, as the C.D.C. was quick to acknowledge on Thursday. After the agency’s announcement, some states instantly lifted mask mandates, while others said they would need more time to weigh the evidence.

But in states without mask mandates, the onus of checking vaccination status will fall on shopkeepers, restaurant workers, school officials and workplace managers.

“Without a means to verify vaccination, we will have to rely on an honor system,” said Caitlin Rivers, an epidemiologist at Johns Hopkins University.

The number of cases in the country is the lowest it has been since September, and many experts support lifting mask mandates in much of the country. But doing so will be riskier in places like Michigan, where there are more cases, and for people who are unprotected, including children under 12 and people with a weak immune systems, Dr. Rivers said.

“People who are unvaccinated should continue to wear masks in public indoors and avoid crowds,” she said.

In Nacogdoches, Texas, Dr. Ahammed Hashim fretted that only 36 percent of the population was immunized and the pace seemed to have stalled. And yet only one or two people in 10 in the local shops wore masks.

“I think the C.D.C. might send a wrong message saying that everything’s OK,” said Dr. Hashim, a pulmonologist. “It would feel much better if we had a 60 or 70 percent vaccination.”

The C.D.C.’s guidance is intended for fully vaccinated individuals, and should only be interpreted as such, Dr. Sharfstein cautioned. Nationwide, only 36 percent of the population is fully vaccinated.

“What we’re just seeing is a little bit of the distance between advice that is entirely appropriate for people who are vaccinated, and the reality that there are places that still are seeing viral transmission and a lot of people who aren’t vaccinated,” he said.

Individuals may make choices based on their perception of their own risks, but state and local leaders must decide what’s best for the community based on the rate of infections. “Those are two different things,” Dr. Sharfstein said. “And when they get conflated, that’s when people may make bad judgments about policy.”

The new guidelines should serve as a reminder to health officials to step up their outreach and investment to ensure that everyone has access to vaccines, Dr. McLaren said. Parents of children under 12 should continue to urge them to wear masks indoors.

The C.D.C.’s new policy shifts the onus onto the immunocompromised as well, to protect themselves from unmasked and unvaccinated people.

“When we make policy, we need to balance the needs and desires of everyone,” Dr. McLaren said. “We could keep masking forever, but there are benefits to getting back to a life that looks more normal.”

Health officials should emphasize that the situation may yet change, and official recommendations with it, she added: “We really need to practice being good at responding to changing situations.”
[www.nytimes.com]

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georgie48

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Hairball
Dr. Fauci weighed in yesterday with his thoughts on some of the maskless controversy in an interview with CNN's Jake Tapper:

The Mask

When pressed by Tapper on if public places like restaurants, bars and bowling alleys should let vaccinated people in without masks, Fauci said "that's going to be a real difficult one," because of the pushback that may come with asking people if they have been vaccinated. "People feel very put upon if you're essentially judging them on the basis of whether they have been vaccinated," Fauci said. "We want vaccinated - we want people to get vaccinated - as many people as we can possibly get vaccinated, but I think there's going to be a pushback against questioning somebody when they walk in, because you can never validate or prove that they're telling you the truth," he continued. Fauci added that this situation is "virtually a functional equivalent of a vaccine passport," adding "I don't think that's going to work."

He gave a similar response when asked if local and state governments should drop mask mandates for vaccinated people, telling Tapper it is a "dicey situation." "Well, for people who are vaccinated, that's another story. But the problem they're going to find, Jake, from a public health standpoint, since you can't completely validate that someone's vaccinated except depending upon them telling you that, if you drop the mask mandate, then you might have an increase in infection among those who are not vaccinated," Fauci said. "So that's the kind of dicey situation that you're in when you're trying to deal about policy at the local level when you have a high degree of transmission. That's not an easy decision to make," he added.

CNN story and full interview:

"You're going to be depending on people being honest enough to say whether they were vaccinated or not"

I don't know about the USA, but my wife and I received a written confirmation that we were vaccinated twice, both dates are merntioned as well as the type of vaccine. They suggested us to carry that confirmation with us (either as such or f.i. laminated) as to show that you've been vaccinated. People are obliged to have any type of identity card (passport, driving licence, ID card) with them at any time anyway when you're in public, so it's all easy to check. No secrets, no faking (well, there will always be a few brilliant people who can fake, but they will be among the 30% covidiots anyway).

Same here in the USA georgie - everyone who gets the vaccination receives a card w/all info. The dates of shot (s), type of vaccine, batch number, where it was done, etc. There's even a couple of places that have offered to laminate for free. Thats fine for many of us, and most are ready and willing to show proof if necessary, but some feel it's an invasion of their privacy to have to prove their vaccination. And then there's the ones who aren't vaccinated at all who don't want to be questioned. And then there's the fake vaccination cards making the rounds - there's many of those already circulating, and no doubt there will be many more.

Was watching the local L.A. news last night, and evidently there were actual physical fights amongst the masked wearers vs the non-masked - a new version of the wild west!
It's a complete quagmire with so many variations of the the new rules from one store to another, city to city, state to state....it might help if everyone was vaccinated and on the same page, but sadly thats not the case

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Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

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MisterDDDD

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skytrench
I don't understand why Dr. Leana Wen would be concerned that her kids of 1 and 3 are not vaccinated. They are not part of the risk group.

Yeah.. doesn't bode very well for her credibility on the issue.

There is a risk in every group, just less so in that age category. Where I live 2 weeks ago a 2 year old died of it. I think an infant under one as well but I don't recall if that was close by or in another part of Canada.