Tell Me :
Talk
That's a bit too convenient and a bit adrift at the same time. Give it two more years to be able to view how the seasons have any influence. Framework factor? Sure - how the behavior of people relates to the seasons dictates inside activities and, if they're like people all over the South above the salt line, they gon git togethuh and spread.
But to simply say changes in the seasons kills the virus is no different than saying humans can reach herd immunity: it's not possible.
Just because you guys say so? "Don't have the infrastructure" in the UNITED STATES???
It's the phenomenon of a self-generated fake news bot of one. You too can spout fake news just like the big boys do. What a world we are living in.
A sea of individual fake news bot nodes run amok.
And in the naked light, I saw
Ten thousand people, maybe more
People talking without speaking
People hearing without listening
People writing songs that voices never share
And no one dared
Disturb the sound of silence
It's a messy gumbo of reasons, not infrastructure, which I have not heard. I've heard things about blizzards. There's communication holes as well.
Are people upset because not enough has happened? Sure. It does seem that information key to the success came out when the vaccine was ready, so, you know, naturally the government is on FEMA mode.
If anyone believes the United States is going to lead blah blah blah then they are smoking from the wrong pipe.
It's not about leading. There are presumably tens or hundreds of thousands of people working in good faith to distribute the vaccines and inoculate the population. It's a massive undertaking that has been in planning for months. Is it going to be perfect? Of course not.
And then you have the armchair individual fake news bots saying, "The distribution of the vaccines is a mess." Then other fake news bots in the swarm echo the message. I can smell the fake news turds being dumped on the ground for other fake news bots to step in from a mile away.
Trust your sense of smell.
well, I said neither of these two things. The only reasonable way out are the vaccin plus wearing masks and social distancing
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021-01-01 23:33 by slewan.
Macao => take a look at the map. It's easy to cut off Macao. In fact all connections but one bridge is closes. Foreigners are not allowed to enter (even if they live there)
see: [www.macaotourism.gov.mo]
Its a matter of overpromising, underdelivering then blaming others. This is complicated but a coherent federal strategy is needed to make it work. When some staes are getting shorted on promised vaccines and other states have 70 year olds waiting outside first come first served something is all f'ed up.
Fake news bots or not, 2020 was full of wrong opinions, lies and ignorant hype. There are a lot of people who think the vaccine makes it go away, that everyone will be immune, which of course is not true. Apparently the rollout of the vaccine was supposed to be as simple as opening an app. Then there are the anti-vaccine "people" that, in some cases, have ruined vaccines.
The whole thing has become one big shrug in terms of personal involvement regarding news and reality having any personal affect. Now less the better. When it happens where I live it happens. Until then I mask up when out and otherwise avoid. I have zero hope about any of it, it will happen when it happens.
Haven't you grown up all your life with the understanding that a vaccine gives you long-term or possibly life-long immunity to a virus? Haven't you grown up with the understanding that the widespread usage of a vaccine will essentially eliminate a virus?
If the answers are "yes" and "yes" why would you assume that it is not the case for this virus? You know how they say that as you get older your immune system accumulates a series of specific preexisting antibodies that can be called upon to replicate and then kill an already-seen virus if needed? I am not a medical expert but I can apply my knowledge and common sense to conclude that this virus will almost certainly not be fundamentally different from other viruses with respect to communicability and immunization.
In that sense my BS filter is on and when you say this, "There are a lot of people who think the vaccine makes it go away, that everyone will be immune, which of course is not true" to me it sounds like you are just one more node in a swarm of individual fake news bots.
I am just trusting my gut instinct for me.
Although I strongly agree with your sentiment here (nicely written btw) I think you may be wrong on one scientific point.
Most vaccines in the past have worked in the same way. This is true for the "Oxford/Astra Zeneca" on in use in the UK. But the Pfizer and the Moderna ones use a new technique that's something to do with RNA or DNA (sorry, can't recall which), and they fundamentally work differently.
So in some ways it makes sense to be cautious about applying rules learnt in past vaccines onto those two.
But it makes PERFECT sense to apply them to the "Oxford" vaccine.
--
Captain Corella
60 Years a Fan
You're BS filter is full of BS. Your gut instinct is chewing on a big fake steak from Fox News.
I'm not assuming anything with SARS-CoV-2, you are. Plus the fact that people that get the vaccine can still transmit it, which you seem to think is not real. You are assuming.
You're assuming that the mythical human herd immunity can happen, which is ridiculous. It's not gonna happen. Too many people will not get it - because they're chemtrailers or flat earthers or... they live in places where it's not going to be available.
You're just one big well rounded assumer.
If you get a vaccine and think you can go without a mask you're continuing the spread. If you choose to not get that then by all means be a spreader.
Here's a hint: ModeRNA
Was your BS filter on when they said to not use masks for two or more months at the beginning of the pandemic? Mine was on.
And more recently my BS filter is on for what is seemingly an opposite form of rhetoric that is taking place right now. Now they are saying you need a mask even if you have had both shots plus x number of weeks, right? Now they are saying that you can still pass on the virus when you have immunity, even though presumably your "army of antibodies" is defending your system and killing off the virus in short order. My BS filter is on for that.
Yes, you are correct, you need to get a generic flu shot each year because the flu virus is in constant flux. Even the annual flu shot is "out of date" with respect to the current status of the spectrum of flu viruses when it is released. With respect to Covid-19, we are currently aware of a single main variant and they are telling us that the current vaccines will also work with this variant. To me it sounds like we still don't have enough information to conclude that the Covid virus is going to be a continuous moving target like the flue virus. But apparently you have already decided and/or the media have decided that this is going to be the case. So you are assuming one thing for this example and I am assuming another thing.
But the net result from the new-style RNA-based vaccines is still the same. Your immune system develops a new antibody that will kill both the "fake" threat and the real Covid-19 threat. Hence you have a new antibody in your arsenal of antibodies that stand on guard to kill invading viruses.
I've been wearing a mask once I understood what was going on. I didn't follow the seesaw and lies from "politicians" and their little friends.
Your BS filter - you just called it "covid virus" and you're attempting to say that I'm being manipulated by the media in thinking that because there's a vaccine we need to still mask up?
Go play golf. I hear it's a good thing to do when you don't know what you're talking about.
That's hilarious. I'd not spotted that at all! Thanks.
--
Captain Corella
60 Years a Fan
The original posting that has led to this sub-thread, was about confidence, and I tried to make the point that 'older' style vaccines can be taken with good confidence that they will both work, and will not have any significant side effects over time.
The Pfizer and the ModeRNA (lol!) products use previously untried technology and even assuming animal testing for the past year, cannot be said with 100% confidence to have no long term effects. I hope they don't, I genuinely think they won't, but a true scientist always holds on to that tiny sliver of doubt. (It makes her/him a better scientist).
--
Captain Corella
60 Years a Fan
So is my "covid virus" nomenclature is not technically correct as per the agreed-upon standards? Did you understand what I was referring to? Does my mistake destroy my credibility like you are implying or is that just another fake news bot spin zone that you are in?
No, I said that if you take both shots of the vaccine and you add the buffer time then you don't need to mask up. The rational reason is that you have immunity and will destroy the virus when it enters your system. You won't be a carrier of the virus and you will have immunity, hence no need to mask up. Isn't that the way it worked in the past? What's different now?
<<< it's a good thing to do when you don't know what you're talking about >>>
That's what I would call a fake news bot node in action. If you actually put forth an argument about what I am supposedly wrong about then what you're saying could have credibility and it could be right. Note that I recited a lot of basic facts about viruses that I probably learned in my high school biology class. It's just like saying that the US totally screwed up it's response to Covid-19 without backing it up with any kind of argument.
This is what we are losing in this day and age, a rational and reasoned approach to issues. Look at both sides of the argument and don't magically "forget" about what we know from the past. This whole branch of medical science started with Louis Pasteur in the mid 19th century.
Thanks slewan. I vaguely remember that bridge from a visit 35 years ago. We came by boat (hovercraft) from Hong Kong, but later also made a bus trip into China. Macao was already crowded then and now being part of China with all the gambling mainland people ...? Apparently the Macao government can still stop them from entering. Good!
In my opinion "long term effects" is another abused term in this day and age. You can probably state with nearly 100% confidence that whether they be old vaccines or new-style vaccines, the small amount that you inject into your body is essentially 100% metabolized and broken down into "trash" within a week. The body's "garbage cleanup crews" move in and clean up. The injection is something like 99.999% salty water and the rest is the vaccine itself.
So it's completely gone after a week, and the legacy left behind is that your immune system has a new antibody in its war chest.
Relative to the vaccine, if you actually knew how much dust and dirt and foreign life forms you breathe in over the course of a week you might be shocked. However, it's all 100% natural and your garbage cleanup crews are also dealing with that.
At work I used to have a "Pending" file. I'd mark something as "Pending" plus a date, and my secretary would file it appropriately, and in due course bring it out on the required date.
If only we had something in here to do the same with our threads.
Put this one into "Pending" for 1st January 2022 and see if there are, by then, any known consequences of any of the vaccines. (Word "consequences" a deliberate choice.)
--
Captain Corella
60 Years a Fan
Regular flu shot side effects:
[www.cdc.gov]
If "medicine" is qualified as unnatural (the ancient Chinese, Inka, Indians, etc., etc., will disagree with that qualification) anyone at any time may experience side effects due to the use of medicine (I did, luckily briefly, my wife did and still does, my late parents, some aunts and uncles did, former and some late colleagues did, etc.), so no doubt the anti-Covid vaccine have side effects. But thanks to medicare around the world the average age of people is still increasing. Nasty buggers like Covid-19 can, if not taken serious, have a negative impact on that increase though. Time will learn what possible long term side effects come out of the use of the Covid-19 vaccine, but many people have become very old on side effects of medication. Possibly a majority has taken the side effects as an unpleasant part af life, but they could enjoy LIFE as such much longer than without medication.
Those who, because of personal possible underlying health problems, feel very uncertain about getting vaccinated should be respected, but as far as I'm concerned ONLY if they respect the lives of others by placing themselves in quarantaine as long as society tells them to. Already too many real life examples of people with nasty long (10 months f.i.) time very bad side effects because of Covid-19 are not just a message, but a serious warning to others. It wouldn't surprise me if those "side effects" will outnumber the possible side effects of a vaccine by multiple big numbers.
Happy New Year and a very healthy future to you all!
I know at least one person who (to his annoyance and disappointment) was refused the Pfizer vaccine because of a known allergy, and will have to wait for the Oxford one. I don't have further details about the exact problem, but it does show that the medical profession, in the UK at least, is being careful.
Talk about your favorite band.
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Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 status around the world
Posted by:
GasLightStreet
()
Date: January 1, 2021 19:15
Quote
slewanQuote
IrixQuote
slewan
this statement is from early August – we aren't in an "early phase" of the pandemic anymore…
The WMO had clearly stated that more research is needed - but it looks like there're currently no new reliable data (maybe still in the works).
right, but as the graphs you posted above indicate: there's an obvious correlation between the number of infections and the seasons.
As I mentioned before: The most important variable is human behavior which tends to be different in summer and winter.
That's a bit too convenient and a bit adrift at the same time. Give it two more years to be able to view how the seasons have any influence. Framework factor? Sure - how the behavior of people relates to the seasons dictates inside activities and, if they're like people all over the South above the salt line, they gon git togethuh and spread.
But to simply say changes in the seasons kills the virus is no different than saying humans can reach herd immunity: it's not possible.
Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 status around the world
Posted by:
MileHigh
()
Date: January 1, 2021 21:03
Quote
KoenQuote
Rip ThisQuote
KoenQuote
Rip This
KUDOS....to New Zealand and Australia....their Covid 19 responses have been nothing short of magnificent. In the USA we are struggling. So unfortunate and unnecessary. The distribution of the vaccines is a mess. We just don't have the infrastructure to support. We saw this when the Federal government did not support with PPE last spring, and we are seeing it again now with the slower than expected vaccine distribution/implementation.
That’s why it is called Operation Warpspeed...
where's the warp?
Exactly
Just because you guys say so? "Don't have the infrastructure" in the UNITED STATES???
It's the phenomenon of a self-generated fake news bot of one. You too can spout fake news just like the big boys do. What a world we are living in.
A sea of individual fake news bot nodes run amok.
And in the naked light, I saw
Ten thousand people, maybe more
People talking without speaking
People hearing without listening
People writing songs that voices never share
And no one dared
Disturb the sound of silence
Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 status around the world
Posted by:
GasLightStreet
()
Date: January 1, 2021 21:17
Quote
MileHighQuote
KoenQuote
Rip ThisQuote
KoenQuote
Rip This
KUDOS....to New Zealand and Australia....their Covid 19 responses have been nothing short of magnificent. In the USA we are struggling. So unfortunate and unnecessary. The distribution of the vaccines is a mess. We just don't have the infrastructure to support. We saw this when the Federal government did not support with PPE last spring, and we are seeing it again now with the slower than expected vaccine distribution/implementation.
That’s why it is called Operation Warpspeed...
where's the warp?
Exactly
Just because you guys say so? "Don't have the infrastructure" in the UNITED STATES???
It's the phenomenon of a self-generated fake news bot of one. You too can spout fake news just like the big boys do. What a world we are living in.
A sea of individual fake news bot nodes run amok.
And in the naked light, I saw
Ten thousand people, maybe more
People talking without speaking
People hearing without listening
People writing songs that voices never share
And no one dared
Disturb the sound of silence
It's a messy gumbo of reasons, not infrastructure, which I have not heard. I've heard things about blizzards. There's communication holes as well.
Are people upset because not enough has happened? Sure. It does seem that information key to the success came out when the vaccine was ready, so, you know, naturally the government is on FEMA mode.
If anyone believes the United States is going to lead blah blah blah then they are smoking from the wrong pipe.
Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 status around the world
Posted by:
MileHigh
()
Date: January 1, 2021 21:34
Quote
GasLightStreetQuote
MileHighQuote
KoenQuote
Rip ThisQuote
KoenQuote
Rip This
KUDOS....to New Zealand and Australia....their Covid 19 responses have been nothing short of magnificent. In the USA we are struggling. So unfortunate and unnecessary. The distribution of the vaccines is a mess. We just don't have the infrastructure to support. We saw this when the Federal government did not support with PPE last spring, and we are seeing it again now with the slower than expected vaccine distribution/implementation.
That’s why it is called Operation Warpspeed...
where's the warp?
Exactly
Just because you guys say so? "Don't have the infrastructure" in the UNITED STATES???
It's the phenomenon of a self-generated fake news bot of one. You too can spout fake news just like the big boys do. What a world we are living in.
A sea of individual fake news bot nodes run amok.
And in the naked light, I saw
Ten thousand people, maybe more
People talking without speaking
People hearing without listening
People writing songs that voices never share
And no one dared
Disturb the sound of silence
It's a messy gumbo of reasons, not infrastructure, which I have not heard. I've heard things about blizzards. There's communication holes as well.
Are people upset because not enough has happened? Sure. It does seem that information key to the success came out when the vaccine was ready, so, you know, naturally the government is on FEMA mode.
If anyone believes the United States is going to lead blah blah blah then they are smoking from the wrong pipe.
It's not about leading. There are presumably tens or hundreds of thousands of people working in good faith to distribute the vaccines and inoculate the population. It's a massive undertaking that has been in planning for months. Is it going to be perfect? Of course not.
And then you have the armchair individual fake news bots saying, "The distribution of the vaccines is a mess." Then other fake news bots in the swarm echo the message. I can smell the fake news turds being dumped on the ground for other fake news bots to step in from a mile away.
Trust your sense of smell.
Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 status around the world
Posted by:
MileHigh
()
Date: January 1, 2021 21:45
It's a bloody mess!!!
[www.cnbc.com]
<<< The United States will not inoculate as many people against the coronavirus by the end of the year as federal officials originally estimated, President Donald Trump’s Covid-19 vaccine czar said Wednesday.
According to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention’s latest count, more than 11.4 million doses of Pfizer’s and Moderna’s two-dose vaccines have been distributed across the country as of Monday morning, but just 2.1 million or so shots have been given to people. That’s far short of U.S. health officials’ original goal of injecting at least 20 million Americans with their first doses before the end of the year.
“We agree that that number is lower than what we had hoped for,” Moncef Slaoui, chief advisor of Operation Warp Speed, said during a news briefing. “We know that it should be better, and we’re working hard to make it better,” he said.
The CDC has acknowledged that its own data is out of date due to delays in receiving it from the states and jurisdictions that report it to federal officials. “A large difference between the number of doses distributed and the number of doses administered is expected at this point in the COVID vaccination program due to several factors,” the agency said.
U.S. Army Gen. Gustave Perna, who oversees logistics for Operation Warp Speed, said he was working to resolve the delay in data reporting, which currently lags by 72 to 96 hours. The CDC updates its vaccine counts every Monday, Wednesday and Friday at 9 a.m. ET, according to the agency.
Nonetheless, the U.S. is “really doing well” with distribution so far, Perna said, adding that the true number of distributed doses is now more than 14 million. The operation began shipping second doses of Pfizer’s vaccine this week for the people who were inoculated with a first shot in mid-December. >>>
Horror of horrors, not as many people were vaccinated as they were predicting. Note the large delay in reporting (presumably the number of people vaccinated) of 72 to 96 hours.
So the actual number of people vaccinated might be considerably higher than they are reporting.
Dammit!!! They weren't able to predict the future again! Those people in the Federal Department of Time Travel must all be on vacation in ancient Greece.
Hundreds of thousands of people are all working hard in good faith, but that doesn't matter. It's all doom and gloom, again!
[www.cnbc.com]
<<< The United States will not inoculate as many people against the coronavirus by the end of the year as federal officials originally estimated, President Donald Trump’s Covid-19 vaccine czar said Wednesday.
According to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention’s latest count, more than 11.4 million doses of Pfizer’s and Moderna’s two-dose vaccines have been distributed across the country as of Monday morning, but just 2.1 million or so shots have been given to people. That’s far short of U.S. health officials’ original goal of injecting at least 20 million Americans with their first doses before the end of the year.
“We agree that that number is lower than what we had hoped for,” Moncef Slaoui, chief advisor of Operation Warp Speed, said during a news briefing. “We know that it should be better, and we’re working hard to make it better,” he said.
The CDC has acknowledged that its own data is out of date due to delays in receiving it from the states and jurisdictions that report it to federal officials. “A large difference between the number of doses distributed and the number of doses administered is expected at this point in the COVID vaccination program due to several factors,” the agency said.
U.S. Army Gen. Gustave Perna, who oversees logistics for Operation Warp Speed, said he was working to resolve the delay in data reporting, which currently lags by 72 to 96 hours. The CDC updates its vaccine counts every Monday, Wednesday and Friday at 9 a.m. ET, according to the agency.
Nonetheless, the U.S. is “really doing well” with distribution so far, Perna said, adding that the true number of distributed doses is now more than 14 million. The operation began shipping second doses of Pfizer’s vaccine this week for the people who were inoculated with a first shot in mid-December. >>>
Horror of horrors, not as many people were vaccinated as they were predicting. Note the large delay in reporting (presumably the number of people vaccinated) of 72 to 96 hours.
So the actual number of people vaccinated might be considerably higher than they are reporting.
Dammit!!! They weren't able to predict the future again! Those people in the Federal Department of Time Travel must all be on vacation in ancient Greece.
Hundreds of thousands of people are all working hard in good faith, but that doesn't matter. It's all doom and gloom, again!
Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 status around the world
Posted by:
georgie48
()
Date: January 1, 2021 22:04
Can anyone explain why the number of US casualties reported by the New York Times is systematically around 7000-8000 lower than that of "worldometers". I've found the latter very consistant, based on daily reports from many countries (double check 
). There are some doubts on their list, though. I found it strange that f.i. Macao, the famous, crowded, former Portuguese, now Chinese gambling city, being stuck on 46 infections and no casualties for many months now. Did they close down the town with all its very popular casino's, 10 months ago or so? Or do they keep the figures so low to allow "safe" casino gambling?
). There are some doubts on their list, though. I found it strange that f.i. Macao, the famous, crowded, former Portuguese, now Chinese gambling city, being stuck on 46 infections and no casualties for many months now. Did they close down the town with all its very popular casino's, 10 months ago or so? Or do they keep the figures so low to allow "safe" casino gambling?Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 status around the world
Posted by:
slewan
()
Date: January 1, 2021 23:32
Quote
GasLightStreetQuote
slewanQuote
IrixQuote
slewan
this statement is from early August – we aren't in an "early phase" of the pandemic anymore…
The WMO had clearly stated that more research is needed - but it looks like there're currently no new reliable data (maybe still in the works).
right, but as the graphs you posted above indicate: there's an obvious correlation between the number of infections and the seasons.
As I mentioned before: The most important variable is human behavior which tends to be different in summer and winter.
That's a bit too convenient and a bit adrift at the same time. Give it two more years to be able to view how the seasons have any influence. Framework factor? Sure - how the behavior of people relates to the seasons dictates inside activities and, if they're like people all over the South above the salt line, they gon git togethuh and spread.
But to simply say changes in the seasons kills the virus is no different than saying humans can reach herd immunity: it's not possible.
well, I said neither of these two things. The only reasonable way out are the vaccin plus wearing masks and social distancing
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021-01-01 23:33 by slewan.
Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 status around the world
Posted by:
slewan
()
Date: January 1, 2021 23:39
Quote
georgie48
Can anyone explain why the number of US casualties reported by the New York Times is systematically around 7000-8000 lower than that of "worldometers". I've found the latter very consistant, based on daily reports from many countries (double check
Macao => take a look at the map. It's easy to cut off Macao. In fact all connections but one bridge is closes. Foreigners are not allowed to enter (even if they live there)
see: [www.macaotourism.gov.mo]
Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 status around the world
Posted by:
daspyknows
()
Date: January 1, 2021 23:45
Quote
MileHighQuote
GasLightStreetQuote
MileHighQuote
KoenQuote
Rip ThisQuote
KoenQuote
Rip This
KUDOS....to New Zealand and Australia....their Covid 19 responses have been nothing short of magnificent. In the USA we are struggling. So unfortunate and unnecessary. The distribution of the vaccines is a mess. We just don't have the infrastructure to support. We saw this when the Federal government did not support with PPE last spring, and we are seeing it again now with the slower than expected vaccine distribution/implementation.
That’s why it is called Operation Warpspeed...
where's the warp?
Exactly
Just because you guys say so? "Don't have the infrastructure" in the UNITED STATES???
It's the phenomenon of a self-generated fake news bot of one. You too can spout fake news just like the big boys do. What a world we are living in.
A sea of individual fake news bot nodes run amok.
And in the naked light, I saw
Ten thousand people, maybe more
People talking without speaking
People hearing without listening
People writing songs that voices never share
And no one dared
Disturb the sound of silence
It's a messy gumbo of reasons, not infrastructure, which I have not heard. I've heard things about blizzards. There's communication holes as well.
Are people upset because not enough has happened? Sure. It does seem that information key to the success came out when the vaccine was ready, so, you know, naturally the government is on FEMA mode.
If anyone believes the United States is going to lead blah blah blah then they are smoking from the wrong pipe.
It's not about leading. There are presumably tens or hundreds of thousands of people working in good faith to distribute the vaccines and inoculate the population. It's a massive undertaking that has been in planning for months. Is it going to be perfect? Of course not.
And then you have the armchair individual fake news bots saying, "The distribution of the vaccines is a mess." Then other fake news bots in the swarm echo the message. I can smell the fake news turds being dumped on the ground for other fake news bots to step in from a mile away.
Trust your sense of smell.
Its a matter of overpromising, underdelivering then blaming others. This is complicated but a coherent federal strategy is needed to make it work. When some staes are getting shorted on promised vaccines and other states have 70 year olds waiting outside first come first served something is all f'ed up.
Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 status around the world
Posted by:
SomeTorontoGirl
()
Date: January 2, 2021 01:54
[www.theguardian.com]
To exhausted healthcare workers like me, Covid conspiracies are a kick in the teeth
Jeeves Wijesuriya
We are nearly a year into the pandemic, yet widespread denial of the pathogen and the crisis still persists. The hard objective truths are undeniable: millions infected globally, hundreds of thousands dead and a lightning-quick scientific breakthrough with vaccines now beginning to be rolled out around the world.
For most healthcare workers, life is split into two: the outward reality we share with our family and friends (the Instagram fodder of home-cooked meals and time with loved ones), and the peculiar and often traumatic inner world of working in healthcare, where supposedly once-in-a-lifetime events such as births, deaths and life-changing illness occur daily.
Right now, this second world feels darker, more chaotic and uncertain. Covid is ripping through hospitals at an unprecedented rate, while an exhausted workforce, already running on fumes not from “just another winter surge”, but due to a second wave of Covid cases worse than the first, attempts to battle it. For us, the objective truth is undeniable: patients are desperately sick. Patients who often decline quickly and suddenly, needing intensive care, ventilation and specialist support.
And yet in the outer world, our social media and even newspapers amplify a different “truth”. That there is no major emergency, that it’s misdiagnosis or global hysteria, which every major country, and their established academic and medical bodies, has inexplicably and simultaneously fallen prey to. Perhaps it was too much to ask that the brief period of trusting and listening to experts during the early days of the first spike might last through the winter.
These two worlds are difficult for healthcare workers to reconcile. We go to work on packed trains, rammed with maskless faces, only to arrive at hospital to treat the consequences of this lack of responsibility. We come home from wards filled with patients, faces sore from hours of wearing PPE in high-risk environments, to tweets from Covid deniers and internet trolls saying they “walked around a hospital and it wasn’t that busy anyway”. To actually do this would be idiocy, not to mention impossible – an evening sojourn would not allow access to the areas of intensive clinical care where patients with the infection are being treated.
It is perhaps worth exploring a few more of these Covid myths, so that we can enjoy catharsis, if not put the issue to bed.
“Patients are dying ‘with’ Covid, not ‘of’ it.” The death certificate data from the Office for National Statistics, which provides us with the most reliable figures on Covid deaths, records causation. But even more obvious is what a patient with Covid pneumonia looks like clinically. They have very low oxygen levels, a dense white shadow in both lungs on their X-rays, a particular pattern of low platelets and specific white blood cells, and very high marker of clotting called D-Dimer. This is a clinical pattern doctors all over the world have seen time and time again. Trust us, they are dying of this disease.
Another bizarre claim is that our hospitals are empty. This despite several trusts now recording major incidents as they risk being overwhelmed, and the national database showing England and Wales has more Covid patients admitted than at the spring peak, and climbing.
And, the worst myth of all: “Covid only kills the infirm and the elderly.” While age is a significant factor, we are routinely seeing patients in their 30s and 40s on ICU. Data from Scotland shows the average age of admitted ICU patients is 61, and more than 85% were living completely independent lives before they were sick. It could be any of us, or someone close to us.
“My GP is still closed, so I have to go to hospital.” Your GP’s office is open. It has had to adapt to an airborne virus to protect you and its staff, but it remains open. They may triage you over the phone. If you need to be seen and examined they will organise this.
Government delay has exacerbated the NHS Covid crisis. We need a lockdown now
Claudia Paoloni
Read more
Perhaps most confusingly: “It’s just like every winter for the NHS.” Firstly, winter in this country for the health service is no garden of delights. It is an ever-worsening pandemonium resulting from an underfunded, understaffed and under-resourced health service grinding on, fuelled by the goodwill of its workers. That being said, now that we face a virus that can cause such rapid deterioration on top of our annual cataclysm, and can so utterly overwhelm intensive care departments, we are indeed facing an altogether worse proposition. On Wednesday alone, 981 people died of Covid.
The virus has returned in full and terrifying force. But public goodwill seems not to have done so to the same degree as in spring. The attacks from Covid deniers are a kick in the teeth. Their claims cause outrage among staff exhausted by shifts, only to have their lived experience, their sacrifice and their suffering, and the suffering of the patients in front of them, denied.
In our role as trustees of the Healthcare Workers’ Foundation we are doing all we can to support the welfare and wellbeing of staff through counselling and PPE support where we can. Where we can’t, we support their bereaved families with respite and practical and educational support for their children. We see the impact on healthcare workers not just of the virus but of myths like those above. No one is immune: by August 620 health and social care workers had died from Covid-19. All left families and loved ones behind.
This pandemic is gruelling. The measures to control it impinge on our quality of life, hurt our freedoms, undermine our rights. But to demand rights and deny responsibilities isn’t rebellion, it’s adolescence. The inner world of medics is fast becoming a war zone. And once again it is hidden from public view, except for those unlucky enough to find themselves on the inside, as patients. For those sceptics demanding to see this world with their own eyes, I hope your demands are never met for your own sake.
Jeeves Wijesuriya is a junior doctor working at a London hospital and a member of the Healthcare Workers’ Foundation
To exhausted healthcare workers like me, Covid conspiracies are a kick in the teeth
Jeeves Wijesuriya
We are nearly a year into the pandemic, yet widespread denial of the pathogen and the crisis still persists. The hard objective truths are undeniable: millions infected globally, hundreds of thousands dead and a lightning-quick scientific breakthrough with vaccines now beginning to be rolled out around the world.
For most healthcare workers, life is split into two: the outward reality we share with our family and friends (the Instagram fodder of home-cooked meals and time with loved ones), and the peculiar and often traumatic inner world of working in healthcare, where supposedly once-in-a-lifetime events such as births, deaths and life-changing illness occur daily.
Right now, this second world feels darker, more chaotic and uncertain. Covid is ripping through hospitals at an unprecedented rate, while an exhausted workforce, already running on fumes not from “just another winter surge”, but due to a second wave of Covid cases worse than the first, attempts to battle it. For us, the objective truth is undeniable: patients are desperately sick. Patients who often decline quickly and suddenly, needing intensive care, ventilation and specialist support.
And yet in the outer world, our social media and even newspapers amplify a different “truth”. That there is no major emergency, that it’s misdiagnosis or global hysteria, which every major country, and their established academic and medical bodies, has inexplicably and simultaneously fallen prey to. Perhaps it was too much to ask that the brief period of trusting and listening to experts during the early days of the first spike might last through the winter.
These two worlds are difficult for healthcare workers to reconcile. We go to work on packed trains, rammed with maskless faces, only to arrive at hospital to treat the consequences of this lack of responsibility. We come home from wards filled with patients, faces sore from hours of wearing PPE in high-risk environments, to tweets from Covid deniers and internet trolls saying they “walked around a hospital and it wasn’t that busy anyway”. To actually do this would be idiocy, not to mention impossible – an evening sojourn would not allow access to the areas of intensive clinical care where patients with the infection are being treated.
It is perhaps worth exploring a few more of these Covid myths, so that we can enjoy catharsis, if not put the issue to bed.
“Patients are dying ‘with’ Covid, not ‘of’ it.” The death certificate data from the Office for National Statistics, which provides us with the most reliable figures on Covid deaths, records causation. But even more obvious is what a patient with Covid pneumonia looks like clinically. They have very low oxygen levels, a dense white shadow in both lungs on their X-rays, a particular pattern of low platelets and specific white blood cells, and very high marker of clotting called D-Dimer. This is a clinical pattern doctors all over the world have seen time and time again. Trust us, they are dying of this disease.
Another bizarre claim is that our hospitals are empty. This despite several trusts now recording major incidents as they risk being overwhelmed, and the national database showing England and Wales has more Covid patients admitted than at the spring peak, and climbing.
And, the worst myth of all: “Covid only kills the infirm and the elderly.” While age is a significant factor, we are routinely seeing patients in their 30s and 40s on ICU. Data from Scotland shows the average age of admitted ICU patients is 61, and more than 85% were living completely independent lives before they were sick. It could be any of us, or someone close to us.
“My GP is still closed, so I have to go to hospital.” Your GP’s office is open. It has had to adapt to an airborne virus to protect you and its staff, but it remains open. They may triage you over the phone. If you need to be seen and examined they will organise this.
Government delay has exacerbated the NHS Covid crisis. We need a lockdown now
Claudia Paoloni
Read more
Perhaps most confusingly: “It’s just like every winter for the NHS.” Firstly, winter in this country for the health service is no garden of delights. It is an ever-worsening pandemonium resulting from an underfunded, understaffed and under-resourced health service grinding on, fuelled by the goodwill of its workers. That being said, now that we face a virus that can cause such rapid deterioration on top of our annual cataclysm, and can so utterly overwhelm intensive care departments, we are indeed facing an altogether worse proposition. On Wednesday alone, 981 people died of Covid.
The virus has returned in full and terrifying force. But public goodwill seems not to have done so to the same degree as in spring. The attacks from Covid deniers are a kick in the teeth. Their claims cause outrage among staff exhausted by shifts, only to have their lived experience, their sacrifice and their suffering, and the suffering of the patients in front of them, denied.
In our role as trustees of the Healthcare Workers’ Foundation we are doing all we can to support the welfare and wellbeing of staff through counselling and PPE support where we can. Where we can’t, we support their bereaved families with respite and practical and educational support for their children. We see the impact on healthcare workers not just of the virus but of myths like those above. No one is immune: by August 620 health and social care workers had died from Covid-19. All left families and loved ones behind.
This pandemic is gruelling. The measures to control it impinge on our quality of life, hurt our freedoms, undermine our rights. But to demand rights and deny responsibilities isn’t rebellion, it’s adolescence. The inner world of medics is fast becoming a war zone. And once again it is hidden from public view, except for those unlucky enough to find themselves on the inside, as patients. For those sceptics demanding to see this world with their own eyes, I hope your demands are never met for your own sake.
Jeeves Wijesuriya is a junior doctor working at a London hospital and a member of the Healthcare Workers’ Foundation
Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 status around the world
Posted by:
GasLightStreet
()
Date: January 2, 2021 02:08
Quote
daspyknowsQuote
MileHighQuote
GasLightStreetQuote
MileHighQuote
KoenQuote
Rip ThisQuote
KoenQuote
Rip This
KUDOS....to New Zealand and Australia....their Covid 19 responses have been nothing short of magnificent. In the USA we are struggling. So unfortunate and unnecessary. The distribution of the vaccines is a mess. We just don't have the infrastructure to support. We saw this when the Federal government did not support with PPE last spring, and we are seeing it again now with the slower than expected vaccine distribution/implementation.
That’s why it is called Operation Warpspeed...
where's the warp?
Exactly
Just because you guys say so? "Don't have the infrastructure" in the UNITED STATES???
It's the phenomenon of a self-generated fake news bot of one. You too can spout fake news just like the big boys do. What a world we are living in.
A sea of individual fake news bot nodes run amok.
And in the naked light, I saw
Ten thousand people, maybe more
People talking without speaking
People hearing without listening
People writing songs that voices never share
And no one dared
Disturb the sound of silence
It's a messy gumbo of reasons, not infrastructure, which I have not heard. I've heard things about blizzards. There's communication holes as well.
Are people upset because not enough has happened? Sure. It does seem that information key to the success came out when the vaccine was ready, so, you know, naturally the government is on FEMA mode.
If anyone believes the United States is going to lead blah blah blah then they are smoking from the wrong pipe.
It's not about leading. There are presumably tens or hundreds of thousands of people working in good faith to distribute the vaccines and inoculate the population. It's a massive undertaking that has been in planning for months. Is it going to be perfect? Of course not.
And then you have the armchair individual fake news bots saying, "The distribution of the vaccines is a mess." Then other fake news bots in the swarm echo the message. I can smell the fake news turds being dumped on the ground for other fake news bots to step in from a mile away.
Trust your sense of smell.
Its a matter of overpromising, underdelivering then blaming others. This is complicated but a coherent federal strategy is needed to make it work. When some staes are getting shorted on promised vaccines and other states have 70 year olds waiting outside first come first served something is all f'ed up.
Fake news bots or not, 2020 was full of wrong opinions, lies and ignorant hype. There are a lot of people who think the vaccine makes it go away, that everyone will be immune, which of course is not true. Apparently the rollout of the vaccine was supposed to be as simple as opening an app. Then there are the anti-vaccine "people" that, in some cases, have ruined vaccines.
The whole thing has become one big shrug in terms of personal involvement regarding news and reality having any personal affect. Now less the better. When it happens where I live it happens. Until then I mask up when out and otherwise avoid. I have zero hope about any of it, it will happen when it happens.
Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 status around the world
Posted by:
MileHigh
()
Date: January 2, 2021 02:54
Quote
GasLightStreetQuote
daspyknowsQuote
MileHighQuote
GasLightStreetQuote
MileHighQuote
KoenQuote
Rip ThisQuote
KoenQuote
Rip This
KUDOS....to New Zealand and Australia....their Covid 19 responses have been nothing short of magnificent. In the USA we are struggling. So unfortunate and unnecessary. The distribution of the vaccines is a mess. We just don't have the infrastructure to support. We saw this when the Federal government did not support with PPE last spring, and we are seeing it again now with the slower than expected vaccine distribution/implementation.
That’s why it is called Operation Warpspeed...
where's the warp?
Exactly
Just because you guys say so? "Don't have the infrastructure" in the UNITED STATES???
It's the phenomenon of a self-generated fake news bot of one. You too can spout fake news just like the big boys do. What a world we are living in.
A sea of individual fake news bot nodes run amok.
And in the naked light, I saw
Ten thousand people, maybe more
People talking without speaking
People hearing without listening
People writing songs that voices never share
And no one dared
Disturb the sound of silence
It's a messy gumbo of reasons, not infrastructure, which I have not heard. I've heard things about blizzards. There's communication holes as well.
Are people upset because not enough has happened? Sure. It does seem that information key to the success came out when the vaccine was ready, so, you know, naturally the government is on FEMA mode.
If anyone believes the United States is going to lead blah blah blah then they are smoking from the wrong pipe.
It's not about leading. There are presumably tens or hundreds of thousands of people working in good faith to distribute the vaccines and inoculate the population. It's a massive undertaking that has been in planning for months. Is it going to be perfect? Of course not.
And then you have the armchair individual fake news bots saying, "The distribution of the vaccines is a mess." Then other fake news bots in the swarm echo the message. I can smell the fake news turds being dumped on the ground for other fake news bots to step in from a mile away.
Trust your sense of smell.
Its a matter of overpromising, underdelivering then blaming others. This is complicated but a coherent federal strategy is needed to make it work. When some staes are getting shorted on promised vaccines and other states have 70 year olds waiting outside first come first served something is all f'ed up.
Fake news bots or not, 2020 was full of wrong opinions, lies and ignorant hype. There are a lot of people who think the vaccine makes it go away, that everyone will be immune, which of course is not true. Apparently the rollout of the vaccine was supposed to be as simple as opening an app. Then there are the anti-vaccine "people" that, in some cases, have ruined vaccines.
The whole thing has become one big shrug in terms of personal involvement regarding news and reality having any personal affect. Now less the better. When it happens where I live it happens. Until then I mask up when out and otherwise avoid. I have zero hope about any of it, it will happen when it happens.
Haven't you grown up all your life with the understanding that a vaccine gives you long-term or possibly life-long immunity to a virus? Haven't you grown up with the understanding that the widespread usage of a vaccine will essentially eliminate a virus?
If the answers are "yes" and "yes" why would you assume that it is not the case for this virus? You know how they say that as you get older your immune system accumulates a series of specific preexisting antibodies that can be called upon to replicate and then kill an already-seen virus if needed? I am not a medical expert but I can apply my knowledge and common sense to conclude that this virus will almost certainly not be fundamentally different from other viruses with respect to communicability and immunization.
In that sense my BS filter is on and when you say this, "There are a lot of people who think the vaccine makes it go away, that everyone will be immune, which of course is not true" to me it sounds like you are just one more node in a swarm of individual fake news bots.
I am just trusting my gut instinct for me.
Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 status around the world
Posted by:
CaptainCorella
()
Date: January 2, 2021 03:40
Quote
MileHigh
Haven't you grown up all your life with the understanding that a vaccine gives you long-term or possibly life-long immunity to a virus? Haven't you grown up with the understanding that the widespread usage of a vaccine will essentially eliminate a virus?
If the answers are "yes" and "yes" why would you assume that it is not the case for this virus? You know how they say that as you get older your immune system accumulates a series of specific preexisting antibodies that can be called upon to replicate and then kill an already-seen virus if needed? I am not a medical expert but I can apply my knowledge and common sense to conclude that this virus will almost certainly not be fundamentally different from other viruses with respect to communicability and immunization.
In that sense my BS filter is on and when you say this, "There are a lot of people who think the vaccine makes it go away, that everyone will be immune, which of course is not true" to me it sounds like you are just one more node in a swarm of individual fake news bots.
I am just trusting my gut instinct for me.
Although I strongly agree with your sentiment here (nicely written btw) I think you may be wrong on one scientific point.
Most vaccines in the past have worked in the same way. This is true for the "Oxford/Astra Zeneca" on in use in the UK. But the Pfizer and the Moderna ones use a new technique that's something to do with RNA or DNA (sorry, can't recall which), and they fundamentally work differently.
So in some ways it makes sense to be cautious about applying rules learnt in past vaccines onto those two.
But it makes PERFECT sense to apply them to the "Oxford" vaccine.
--
Captain Corella
60 Years a Fan
Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 status around the world
Posted by:
MisterDDDD
()
Date: January 2, 2021 03:49
Quote
MileHigh
Haven't you grown up all your life with the understanding that a vaccine gives you long-term or possibly life-long immunity to a virus?
No.
Not a virus, I get a vaccine for the flu virus annually for example.
Haven't you grown up with the understanding that the widespread usage of a vaccine will essentially eliminate a virus?
Again, No. See previous answer.
If the answers are "yes" and "yes" why would you assume that it is not the case for this virus?
Correct answers were "No and No"
I am not a medical expert
First point of agreement.
but I can apply my knowledge and common sense to conclude that this virus will almost certainly not be fundamentally different from other viruses with respect to communicability and immunization.
Partially correct.
It will be like other flu viruses that mutate etc and an updated vaccine will likely be needed annually perhaps more, perhaps less.
In that sense my BS filter is on and when you say this, "There are a lot of people who think the vaccine makes it go away, that everyone will be immune, which of course is not true" to me it sounds like you are just one more node in a swarm of individual fake news bots.
I am just trusting my gut instinct for me.
Clearly
Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 status around the world
Posted by:
GasLightStreet
()
Date: January 2, 2021 03:50
Quote
MileHigh
Haven't you grown up all your life with the understanding that a vaccine gives you long-term or possibly life-long immunity to a virus? Haven't you grown up with the understanding that the widespread usage of a vaccine will essentially eliminate a virus?
If the answers are "yes" and "yes" why would you assume that it is not the case for this virus? You know how they say that as you get older your immune system accumulates a series of specific preexisting antibodies that can be called upon to replicate and then kill an already-seen virus if needed? I am not a medical expert but I can apply my knowledge and common sense to conclude that this virus will almost certainly not be fundamentally different from other viruses with respect to communicability and immunization.
In that sense my BS filter is on and when you say this, "There are a lot of people who think the vaccine makes it go away, that everyone will be immune, which of course is not true" to me it sounds like you are just one more node in a swarm of individual fake news bots.
I am just trusting my gut instinct for me.
You're BS filter is full of BS. Your gut instinct is chewing on a big fake steak from Fox News.
I'm not assuming anything with SARS-CoV-2, you are. Plus the fact that people that get the vaccine can still transmit it, which you seem to think is not real. You are assuming.
You're assuming that the mythical human herd immunity can happen, which is ridiculous. It's not gonna happen. Too many people will not get it - because they're chemtrailers or flat earthers or... they live in places where it's not going to be available.
You're just one big well rounded assumer.
If you get a vaccine and think you can go without a mask you're continuing the spread. If you choose to not get that then by all means be a spreader.
Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 status around the world
Posted by:
Koen
()
Date: January 2, 2021 04:36
Quote
CaptainCorella
But the Pfizer and the Moderna ones use a new technique that's something to do with RNA or DNA (sorry, can't recall which).
Here's a hint: ModeRNA
Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 status around the world
Posted by:
MileHigh
()
Date: January 2, 2021 05:03
Quote
GasLightStreetQuote
MileHigh
Haven't you grown up all your life with the understanding that a vaccine gives you long-term or possibly life-long immunity to a virus? Haven't you grown up with the understanding that the widespread usage of a vaccine will essentially eliminate a virus?
If the answers are "yes" and "yes" why would you assume that it is not the case for this virus? You know how they say that as you get older your immune system accumulates a series of specific preexisting antibodies that can be called upon to replicate and then kill an already-seen virus if needed? I am not a medical expert but I can apply my knowledge and common sense to conclude that this virus will almost certainly not be fundamentally different from other viruses with respect to communicability and immunization.
In that sense my BS filter is on and when you say this, "There are a lot of people who think the vaccine makes it go away, that everyone will be immune, which of course is not true" to me it sounds like you are just one more node in a swarm of individual fake news bots.
I am just trusting my gut instinct for me.
You're BS filter is full of BS. Your gut instinct is chewing on a big fake steak from Fox News.
I'm not assuming anything with SARS-CoV-2, you are. Plus the fact that people that get the vaccine can still transmit it, which you seem to think is not real. You are assuming.
You're assuming that the mythical human herd immunity can happen, which is ridiculous. It's not gonna happen. Too many people will not get it - because they're chemtrailers or flat earthers or... they live in places where it's not going to be available.
You're just one big well rounded assumer.
If you get a vaccine and think you can go without a mask you're continuing the spread. If you choose to not get that then by all means be a spreader.
Was your BS filter on when they said to not use masks for two or more months at the beginning of the pandemic? Mine was on.
And more recently my BS filter is on for what is seemingly an opposite form of rhetoric that is taking place right now. Now they are saying you need a mask even if you have had both shots plus x number of weeks, right? Now they are saying that you can still pass on the virus when you have immunity, even though presumably your "army of antibodies" is defending your system and killing off the virus in short order. My BS filter is on for that.
Yes, you are correct, you need to get a generic flu shot each year because the flu virus is in constant flux. Even the annual flu shot is "out of date" with respect to the current status of the spectrum of flu viruses when it is released. With respect to Covid-19, we are currently aware of a single main variant and they are telling us that the current vaccines will also work with this variant. To me it sounds like we still don't have enough information to conclude that the Covid virus is going to be a continuous moving target like the flue virus. But apparently you have already decided and/or the media have decided that this is going to be the case. So you are assuming one thing for this example and I am assuming another thing.
Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 status around the world
Posted by:
MileHigh
()
Date: January 2, 2021 05:08
Quote
KoenQuote
CaptainCorella
But the Pfizer and the Moderna ones use a new technique that's something to do with RNA or DNA (sorry, can't recall which).
Here's a hint: ModeRNA
But the net result from the new-style RNA-based vaccines is still the same. Your immune system develops a new antibody that will kill both the "fake" threat and the real Covid-19 threat. Hence you have a new antibody in your arsenal of antibodies that stand on guard to kill invading viruses.
Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 status around the world
Posted by:
GasLightStreet
()
Date: January 2, 2021 05:28
Quote
MileHighQuote
GasLightStreetQuote
MileHigh
Haven't you grown up all your life with the understanding that a vaccine gives you long-term or possibly life-long immunity to a virus? Haven't you grown up with the understanding that the widespread usage of a vaccine will essentially eliminate a virus?
If the answers are "yes" and "yes" why would you assume that it is not the case for this virus? You know how they say that as you get older your immune system accumulates a series of specific preexisting antibodies that can be called upon to replicate and then kill an already-seen virus if needed? I am not a medical expert but I can apply my knowledge and common sense to conclude that this virus will almost certainly not be fundamentally different from other viruses with respect to communicability and immunization.
In that sense my BS filter is on and when you say this, "There are a lot of people who think the vaccine makes it go away, that everyone will be immune, which of course is not true" to me it sounds like you are just one more node in a swarm of individual fake news bots.
I am just trusting my gut instinct for me.
You're BS filter is full of BS. Your gut instinct is chewing on a big fake steak from Fox News.
I'm not assuming anything with SARS-CoV-2, you are. Plus the fact that people that get the vaccine can still transmit it, which you seem to think is not real. You are assuming.
You're assuming that the mythical human herd immunity can happen, which is ridiculous. It's not gonna happen. Too many people will not get it - because they're chemtrailers or flat earthers or... they live in places where it's not going to be available.
You're just one big well rounded assumer.
If you get a vaccine and think you can go without a mask you're continuing the spread. If you choose to not get that then by all means be a spreader.
Was your BS filter on when they said to not use masks for two or more months at the beginning of the pandemic? Mine was on.
And more recently my BS filter is on for what is seemingly an opposite form of rhetoric that is taking place right now. Now they are saying you need a mask even if you have had both shots plus x number of weeks, right? Now they are saying that you can still pass on the virus when you have immunity, even though presumably your "army of antibodies" is defending your system and killing off the virus in short order. My BS filter is on for that.
Yes, you are correct, you need to get a generic flu shot each year because the flu virus is in constant flux. Even the annual flu shot is "out of date" with respect to the current status of the spectrum of flu viruses when it is released. With respect to Covid-19, we are currently aware of a single main variant and they are telling us that the current vaccines will also work with this variant. To me it sounds like we still don't have enough information to conclude that the Covid virus is going to be a continuous moving target like the flue virus. But apparently you have already decided and/or the media have decided that this is going to be the case. So you are assuming one thing for this example and I am assuming another thing.
I've been wearing a mask once I understood what was going on. I didn't follow the seesaw and lies from "politicians" and their little friends.
Your BS filter - you just called it "covid virus" and you're attempting to say that I'm being manipulated by the media in thinking that because there's a vaccine we need to still mask up?
Go play golf. I hear it's a good thing to do when you don't know what you're talking about.
Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 status around the world
Posted by:
CaptainCorella
()
Date: January 2, 2021 05:43
Quote
KoenQuote
CaptainCorella
But the Pfizer and the Moderna ones use a new technique that's something to do with RNA or DNA (sorry, can't recall which).
Here's a hint: ModeRNA
That's hilarious. I'd not spotted that at all! Thanks.
--
Captain Corella
60 Years a Fan
Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 status around the world
Posted by:
CaptainCorella
()
Date: January 2, 2021 05:48
Quote
MileHighQuote
KoenQuote
CaptainCorella
But the Pfizer and the Moderna ones use a new technique that's something to do with RNA or DNA (sorry, can't recall which).
Here's a hint: ModeRNA
But the net result from the new-style RNA-based vaccines is still the same. Your immune system develops a new antibody that will kill both the "fake" threat and the real Covid-19 threat. Hence you have a new antibody in your arsenal of antibodies that stand on guard to kill invading viruses.
The original posting that has led to this sub-thread, was about confidence, and I tried to make the point that 'older' style vaccines can be taken with good confidence that they will both work, and will not have any significant side effects over time.
The Pfizer and the ModeRNA (lol!) products use previously untried technology and even assuming animal testing for the past year, cannot be said with 100% confidence to have no long term effects. I hope they don't, I genuinely think they won't, but a true scientist always holds on to that tiny sliver of doubt. (It makes her/him a better scientist).
--
Captain Corella
60 Years a Fan
Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 status around the world
Posted by:
MileHigh
()
Date: January 2, 2021 07:24
Quote
GasLightStreetQuote
MileHighQuote
GasLightStreetQuote
MileHigh
Haven't you grown up all your life with the understanding that a vaccine gives you long-term or possibly life-long immunity to a virus? Haven't you grown up with the understanding that the widespread usage of a vaccine will essentially eliminate a virus?
If the answers are "yes" and "yes" why would you assume that it is not the case for this virus? You know how they say that as you get older your immune system accumulates a series of specific preexisting antibodies that can be called upon to replicate and then kill an already-seen virus if needed? I am not a medical expert but I can apply my knowledge and common sense to conclude that this virus will almost certainly not be fundamentally different from other viruses with respect to communicability and immunization.
In that sense my BS filter is on and when you say this, "There are a lot of people who think the vaccine makes it go away, that everyone will be immune, which of course is not true" to me it sounds like you are just one more node in a swarm of individual fake news bots.
I am just trusting my gut instinct for me.
You're BS filter is full of BS. Your gut instinct is chewing on a big fake steak from Fox News.
I'm not assuming anything with SARS-CoV-2, you are. Plus the fact that people that get the vaccine can still transmit it, which you seem to think is not real. You are assuming.
You're assuming that the mythical human herd immunity can happen, which is ridiculous. It's not gonna happen. Too many people will not get it - because they're chemtrailers or flat earthers or... they live in places where it's not going to be available.
You're just one big well rounded assumer.
If you get a vaccine and think you can go without a mask you're continuing the spread. If you choose to not get that then by all means be a spreader.
Was your BS filter on when they said to not use masks for two or more months at the beginning of the pandemic? Mine was on.
And more recently my BS filter is on for what is seemingly an opposite form of rhetoric that is taking place right now. Now they are saying you need a mask even if you have had both shots plus x number of weeks, right? Now they are saying that you can still pass on the virus when you have immunity, even though presumably your "army of antibodies" is defending your system and killing off the virus in short order. My BS filter is on for that.
Yes, you are correct, you need to get a generic flu shot each year because the flu virus is in constant flux. Even the annual flu shot is "out of date" with respect to the current status of the spectrum of flu viruses when it is released. With respect to Covid-19, we are currently aware of a single main variant and they are telling us that the current vaccines will also work with this variant. To me it sounds like we still don't have enough information to conclude that the Covid virus is going to be a continuous moving target like the flue virus. But apparently you have already decided and/or the media have decided that this is going to be the case. So you are assuming one thing for this example and I am assuming another thing.
I've been wearing a mask once I understood what was going on. I didn't follow the seesaw and lies from "politicians" and their little friends.
Your BS filter - you just called it "covid virus" and you're attempting to say that I'm being manipulated by the media in thinking that because there's a vaccine we need to still mask up?
Go play golf. I hear it's a good thing to do when you don't know what you're talking about.
So is my "covid virus" nomenclature is not technically correct as per the agreed-upon standards? Did you understand what I was referring to? Does my mistake destroy my credibility like you are implying or is that just another fake news bot spin zone that you are in?
No, I said that if you take both shots of the vaccine and you add the buffer time then you don't need to mask up. The rational reason is that you have immunity and will destroy the virus when it enters your system. You won't be a carrier of the virus and you will have immunity, hence no need to mask up. Isn't that the way it worked in the past? What's different now?
<<< it's a good thing to do when you don't know what you're talking about >>>
That's what I would call a fake news bot node in action. If you actually put forth an argument about what I am supposedly wrong about then what you're saying could have credibility and it could be right. Note that I recited a lot of basic facts about viruses that I probably learned in my high school biology class. It's just like saying that the US totally screwed up it's response to Covid-19 without backing it up with any kind of argument.
This is what we are losing in this day and age, a rational and reasoned approach to issues. Look at both sides of the argument and don't magically "forget" about what we know from the past. This whole branch of medical science started with Louis Pasteur in the mid 19th century.
Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 status around the world
Posted by:
georgie48
()
Date: January 2, 2021 07:25
Quote
slewanQuote
georgie48
Can anyone explain why the number of US casualties reported by the New York Times is systematically around 7000-8000 lower than that of "worldometers". I've found the latter very consistant, based on daily reports from many countries (double check
Macao => take a look at the map. It's easy to cut off Macao. In fact all connections but one bridge is closes. Foreigners are not allowed to enter (even if they live there)
see: [www.macaotourism.gov.mo]
Thanks slewan. I vaguely remember that bridge from a visit 35 years ago. We came by boat (hovercraft) from Hong Kong, but later also made a bus trip into China. Macao was already crowded then and now being part of China with all the gambling mainland people ...? Apparently the Macao government can still stop them from entering. Good!
Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 status around the world
Posted by:
MileHigh
()
Date: January 2, 2021 07:36
Quote
CaptainCorellaQuote
MileHighQuote
KoenQuote
CaptainCorella
But the Pfizer and the Moderna ones use a new technique that's something to do with RNA or DNA (sorry, can't recall which).
Here's a hint: ModeRNA
But the net result from the new-style RNA-based vaccines is still the same. Your immune system develops a new antibody that will kill both the "fake" threat and the real Covid-19 threat. Hence you have a new antibody in your arsenal of antibodies that stand on guard to kill invading viruses.
The original posting that has led to this sub-thread, was about confidence, and I tried to make the point that 'older' style vaccines can be taken with good confidence that they will both work, and will not have any significant side effects over time.
The Pfizer and the ModeRNA (lol!) products use previously untried technology and even assuming animal testing for the past year, cannot be said with 100% confidence to have no long term effects. I hope they don't, I genuinely think they won't, but a true scientist always holds on to that tiny sliver of doubt. (It makes her/him a better scientist).
In my opinion "long term effects" is another abused term in this day and age. You can probably state with nearly 100% confidence that whether they be old vaccines or new-style vaccines, the small amount that you inject into your body is essentially 100% metabolized and broken down into "trash" within a week. The body's "garbage cleanup crews" move in and clean up. The injection is something like 99.999% salty water and the rest is the vaccine itself.
So it's completely gone after a week, and the legacy left behind is that your immune system has a new antibody in its war chest.
Relative to the vaccine, if you actually knew how much dust and dirt and foreign life forms you breathe in over the course of a week you might be shocked. However, it's all 100% natural and your garbage cleanup crews are also dealing with that.
Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 status around the world
Posted by:
CaptainCorella
()
Date: January 2, 2021 07:57
Quote
MileHighQuote
CaptainCorellaQuote
MileHighQuote
KoenQuote
CaptainCorella
But the Pfizer and the Moderna ones use a new technique that's something to do with RNA or DNA (sorry, can't recall which).
Here's a hint: ModeRNA
But the net result from the new-style RNA-based vaccines is still the same. Your immune system develops a new antibody that will kill both the "fake" threat and the real Covid-19 threat. Hence you have a new antibody in your arsenal of antibodies that stand on guard to kill invading viruses.
The original posting that has led to this sub-thread, was about confidence, and I tried to make the point that 'older' style vaccines can be taken with good confidence that they will both work, and will not have any significant side effects over time.
The Pfizer and the ModeRNA (lol!) products use previously untried technology and even assuming animal testing for the past year, cannot be said with 100% confidence to have no long term effects. I hope they don't, I genuinely think they won't, but a true scientist always holds on to that tiny sliver of doubt. (It makes her/him a better scientist).
In my opinion "long term effects" is another abused term in this day and age. You can probably state with nearly 100% confidence that whether they be old vaccines or new-style vaccines, the small amount that you inject into your body is essentially 100% metabolized and broken down into "trash" within a week. The body's "garbage cleanup crews" move in and clean up. The injection is something like 99.999% salty water and the rest is the vaccine itself.
So it's completely gone after a week, and the legacy left behind is that your immune system has a new antibody in its war chest.
Relative to the vaccine, if you actually knew how much dust and dirt and foreign life forms you breathe in over the course of a week you might be shocked. However, it's all 100% natural and your garbage cleanup crews are also dealing with that.
At work I used to have a "Pending" file. I'd mark something as "Pending" plus a date, and my secretary would file it appropriately, and in due course bring it out on the required date.
If only we had something in here to do the same with our threads.
Put this one into "Pending" for 1st January 2022 and see if there are, by then, any known consequences of any of the vaccines. (Word "consequences" a deliberate choice.)
--
Captain Corella
60 Years a Fan
Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 status around the world
Posted by:
JadedFaded
()
Date: January 2, 2021 08:53
Quote
MileHigh
In my opinion "long term effects" is another abused term in this day and age. You can probably state with nearly 100% confidence that whether they be old vaccines or new-style vaccines, the small amount that you inject into your body is essentially 100% metabolized and broken down into "trash" within a week. The body's "garbage cleanup crews" move in and clean up. The injection is something like 99.999% salty water and the rest is the vaccine itself.
So it's completely gone after a week, and the legacy left behind is that your immune system has a new antibody in its war chest.
Relative to the vaccine, if you actually knew how much dust and dirt and foreign life forms you breathe in over the course of a week you might be shocked. However, it's all 100% natural and your garbage cleanup crews are also dealing with that.
Regular flu shot side effects:
[www.cdc.gov]
Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 status around the world
Posted by:
bv
()
Date: January 2, 2021 09:24
Road traffic safety: Seat belts and airbag in cars have made cars safer. Better roads and hefty fines for speed or drunk driving have made drivers safer. In 2020 we had just 95 people killed in traffic in Norway, lowest number since 1947, and traffic is just growing.
Pandemics and virus: Just replace "road traffic safety" with the corona pandemic, or any other highly fatal virus. There are very important tools to fight it, like social distance, masks, washing hands, test/trace and local lock down.
We have people in Norway who think we should get rid of speed limits, traffic cameras, and drinking rules in traffic. These are the very same people who now think the rules of the corona virus pandemic fighting are just stupid. The same people are fans of great personal freedom, they don't like rules, and they think they are better than the state. Luckily we have leaders who make the rules, and leaders who take care of our health and security.
Bjornulf
Pandemics and virus: Just replace "road traffic safety" with the corona pandemic, or any other highly fatal virus. There are very important tools to fight it, like social distance, masks, washing hands, test/trace and local lock down.
We have people in Norway who think we should get rid of speed limits, traffic cameras, and drinking rules in traffic. These are the very same people who now think the rules of the corona virus pandemic fighting are just stupid. The same people are fans of great personal freedom, they don't like rules, and they think they are better than the state. Luckily we have leaders who make the rules, and leaders who take care of our health and security.
Bjornulf
Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 status around the world
Posted by:
Chris Fountain
()
Date: January 2, 2021 11:02
Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 status around the world
Posted by:
georgie48
()
Date: January 2, 2021 11:42
Quote
JadedFadedQuote
MileHigh
In my opinion "long term effects" is another abused term in this day and age. You can probably state with nearly 100% confidence that whether they be old vaccines or new-style vaccines, the small amount that you inject into your body is essentially 100% metabolized and broken down into "trash" within a week. The body's "garbage cleanup crews" move in and clean up. The injection is something like 99.999% salty water and the rest is the vaccine itself.
So it's completely gone after a week, and the legacy left behind is that your immune system has a new antibody in its war chest.
Relative to the vaccine, if you actually knew how much dust and dirt and foreign life forms you breathe in over the course of a week you might be shocked. However, it's all 100% natural and your garbage cleanup crews are also dealing with that.
Regular flu shot side effects:
[www.cdc.gov]
If "medicine" is qualified as unnatural (the ancient Chinese, Inka, Indians, etc., etc., will disagree with that qualification) anyone at any time may experience side effects due to the use of medicine (I did, luckily briefly, my wife did and still does, my late parents, some aunts and uncles did, former and some late colleagues did, etc.), so no doubt the anti-Covid vaccine have side effects. But thanks to medicare around the world the average age of people is still increasing. Nasty buggers like Covid-19 can, if not taken serious, have a negative impact on that increase though. Time will learn what possible long term side effects come out of the use of the Covid-19 vaccine, but many people have become very old on side effects of medication. Possibly a majority has taken the side effects as an unpleasant part af life, but they could enjoy LIFE as such much longer than without medication.
Those who, because of personal possible underlying health problems, feel very uncertain about getting vaccinated should be respected, but as far as I'm concerned ONLY if they respect the lives of others by placing themselves in quarantaine as long as society tells them to. Already too many real life examples of people with nasty long (10 months f.i.) time very bad side effects because of Covid-19 are not just a message, but a serious warning to others. It wouldn't surprise me if those "side effects" will outnumber the possible side effects of a vaccine by multiple big numbers.
Happy New Year and a very healthy future to you all!
Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 status around the world
Posted by:
Green Lady
()
Date: January 2, 2021 12:40
Quote
JadedFadedQuote
MileHigh
In my opinion "long term effects" is another abused term in this day and age. You can probably state with nearly 100% confidence that whether they be old vaccines or new-style vaccines, the small amount that you inject into your body is essentially 100% metabolized and broken down into "trash" within a week. The body's "garbage cleanup crews" move in and clean up. The injection is something like 99.999% salty water and the rest is the vaccine itself.
So it's completely gone after a week, and the legacy left behind is that your immune system has a new antibody in its war chest.
Relative to the vaccine, if you actually knew how much dust and dirt and foreign life forms you breathe in over the course of a week you might be shocked. However, it's all 100% natural and your garbage cleanup crews are also dealing with that.
Regular flu shot side effects:
[www.cdc.gov]
I know at least one person who (to his annoyance and disappointment) was refused the Pfizer vaccine because of a known allergy, and will have to wait for the Oxford one. I don't have further details about the exact problem, but it does show that the medical profession, in the UK at least, is being careful.
This Thread has been closed
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