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slewan
this statement is from early August – we aren't in an "early phase" of the pandemic anymore…
The WMO had clearly stated that more research is needed - but it looks like there're currently no new reliable data (maybe still in the works).
right, but as the graphs you posted above indicate: there's an obvious correlation between the number of infections and the seasons.
As I mentioned before: The most important variable is human behavior which tends to be different in summer and winter.
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KUDOS....to New Zealand and Australia....their Covid 19 responses have been nothing short of magnificent. In the USA we are struggling. So unfortunate and unnecessary. The distribution of the vaccines is a mess. We just don't have the infrastructure to support. We saw this when the Federal government did not support with PPE last spring, and we are seeing it again now with the slower than expected vaccine distribution/implementation.
That’s why it is called Operation Warpspeed...
where's the warp?
Exactly
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KUDOS....to New Zealand and Australia....their Covid 19 responses have been nothing short of magnificent. In the USA we are struggling. So unfortunate and unnecessary. The distribution of the vaccines is a mess. We just don't have the infrastructure to support. We saw this when the Federal government did not support with PPE last spring, and we are seeing it again now with the slower than expected vaccine distribution/implementation.
That’s why it is called Operation Warpspeed...
where's the warp?
Exactly
Just because you guys say so? "Don't have the infrastructure" in the UNITED STATES???
It's the phenomenon of a self-generated fake news bot of one. You too can spout fake news just like the big boys do. What a world we are living in.
A sea of individual fake news bot nodes run amok.
And in the naked light, I saw
Ten thousand people, maybe more
People talking without speaking
People hearing without listening
People writing songs that voices never share
And no one dared
Disturb the sound of silence
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KUDOS....to New Zealand and Australia....their Covid 19 responses have been nothing short of magnificent. In the USA we are struggling. So unfortunate and unnecessary. The distribution of the vaccines is a mess. We just don't have the infrastructure to support. We saw this when the Federal government did not support with PPE last spring, and we are seeing it again now with the slower than expected vaccine distribution/implementation.
That’s why it is called Operation Warpspeed...
where's the warp?
Exactly
Just because you guys say so? "Don't have the infrastructure" in the UNITED STATES???
It's the phenomenon of a self-generated fake news bot of one. You too can spout fake news just like the big boys do. What a world we are living in.
A sea of individual fake news bot nodes run amok.
And in the naked light, I saw
Ten thousand people, maybe more
People talking without speaking
People hearing without listening
People writing songs that voices never share
And no one dared
Disturb the sound of silence
It's a messy gumbo of reasons, not infrastructure, which I have not heard. I've heard things about blizzards. There's communication holes as well.
Are people upset because not enough has happened? Sure. It does seem that information key to the success came out when the vaccine was ready, so, you know, naturally the government is on FEMA mode.
If anyone believes the United States is going to lead blah blah blah then they are smoking from the wrong pipe.
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slewanQuote
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slewan
this statement is from early August – we aren't in an "early phase" of the pandemic anymore…
The WMO had clearly stated that more research is needed - but it looks like there're currently no new reliable data (maybe still in the works).
right, but as the graphs you posted above indicate: there's an obvious correlation between the number of infections and the seasons.
As I mentioned before: The most important variable is human behavior which tends to be different in summer and winter.
That's a bit too convenient and a bit adrift at the same time. Give it two more years to be able to view how the seasons have any influence. Framework factor? Sure - how the behavior of people relates to the seasons dictates inside activities and, if they're like people all over the South above the salt line, they gon git togethuh and spread.
But to simply say changes in the seasons kills the virus is no different than saying humans can reach herd immunity: it's not possible.
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georgie48
Can anyone explain why the number of US casualties reported by the New York Times is systematically around 7000-8000 lower than that of "worldometers". I've found the latter very consistant, based on daily reports from many countries (double check ). There are some doubts on their list, though. I found it strange that f.i. Macao, the famous, crowded, former Portuguese, now Chinese gambling city, being stuck on 46 infections and no casualties for many months now. Did they close down the town with all its very popular casino's, 10 months ago or so? Or do they keep the figures so low to allow "safe" casino gambling?
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KUDOS....to New Zealand and Australia....their Covid 19 responses have been nothing short of magnificent. In the USA we are struggling. So unfortunate and unnecessary. The distribution of the vaccines is a mess. We just don't have the infrastructure to support. We saw this when the Federal government did not support with PPE last spring, and we are seeing it again now with the slower than expected vaccine distribution/implementation.
That’s why it is called Operation Warpspeed...
where's the warp?
Exactly
Just because you guys say so? "Don't have the infrastructure" in the UNITED STATES???
It's the phenomenon of a self-generated fake news bot of one. You too can spout fake news just like the big boys do. What a world we are living in.
A sea of individual fake news bot nodes run amok.
And in the naked light, I saw
Ten thousand people, maybe more
People talking without speaking
People hearing without listening
People writing songs that voices never share
And no one dared
Disturb the sound of silence
It's a messy gumbo of reasons, not infrastructure, which I have not heard. I've heard things about blizzards. There's communication holes as well.
Are people upset because not enough has happened? Sure. It does seem that information key to the success came out when the vaccine was ready, so, you know, naturally the government is on FEMA mode.
If anyone believes the United States is going to lead blah blah blah then they are smoking from the wrong pipe.
It's not about leading. There are presumably tens or hundreds of thousands of people working in good faith to distribute the vaccines and inoculate the population. It's a massive undertaking that has been in planning for months. Is it going to be perfect? Of course not.
And then you have the armchair individual fake news bots saying, "The distribution of the vaccines is a mess." Then other fake news bots in the swarm echo the message. I can smell the fake news turds being dumped on the ground for other fake news bots to step in from a mile away.
Trust your sense of smell.
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KUDOS....to New Zealand and Australia....their Covid 19 responses have been nothing short of magnificent. In the USA we are struggling. So unfortunate and unnecessary. The distribution of the vaccines is a mess. We just don't have the infrastructure to support. We saw this when the Federal government did not support with PPE last spring, and we are seeing it again now with the slower than expected vaccine distribution/implementation.
That’s why it is called Operation Warpspeed...
where's the warp?
Exactly
Just because you guys say so? "Don't have the infrastructure" in the UNITED STATES???
It's the phenomenon of a self-generated fake news bot of one. You too can spout fake news just like the big boys do. What a world we are living in.
A sea of individual fake news bot nodes run amok.
And in the naked light, I saw
Ten thousand people, maybe more
People talking without speaking
People hearing without listening
People writing songs that voices never share
And no one dared
Disturb the sound of silence
It's a messy gumbo of reasons, not infrastructure, which I have not heard. I've heard things about blizzards. There's communication holes as well.
Are people upset because not enough has happened? Sure. It does seem that information key to the success came out when the vaccine was ready, so, you know, naturally the government is on FEMA mode.
If anyone believes the United States is going to lead blah blah blah then they are smoking from the wrong pipe.
It's not about leading. There are presumably tens or hundreds of thousands of people working in good faith to distribute the vaccines and inoculate the population. It's a massive undertaking that has been in planning for months. Is it going to be perfect? Of course not.
And then you have the armchair individual fake news bots saying, "The distribution of the vaccines is a mess." Then other fake news bots in the swarm echo the message. I can smell the fake news turds being dumped on the ground for other fake news bots to step in from a mile away.
Trust your sense of smell.
Its a matter of overpromising, underdelivering then blaming others. This is complicated but a coherent federal strategy is needed to make it work. When some staes are getting shorted on promised vaccines and other states have 70 year olds waiting outside first come first served something is all f'ed up.
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KUDOS....to New Zealand and Australia....their Covid 19 responses have been nothing short of magnificent. In the USA we are struggling. So unfortunate and unnecessary. The distribution of the vaccines is a mess. We just don't have the infrastructure to support. We saw this when the Federal government did not support with PPE last spring, and we are seeing it again now with the slower than expected vaccine distribution/implementation.
That’s why it is called Operation Warpspeed...
where's the warp?
Exactly
Just because you guys say so? "Don't have the infrastructure" in the UNITED STATES???
It's the phenomenon of a self-generated fake news bot of one. You too can spout fake news just like the big boys do. What a world we are living in.
A sea of individual fake news bot nodes run amok.
And in the naked light, I saw
Ten thousand people, maybe more
People talking without speaking
People hearing without listening
People writing songs that voices never share
And no one dared
Disturb the sound of silence
It's a messy gumbo of reasons, not infrastructure, which I have not heard. I've heard things about blizzards. There's communication holes as well.
Are people upset because not enough has happened? Sure. It does seem that information key to the success came out when the vaccine was ready, so, you know, naturally the government is on FEMA mode.
If anyone believes the United States is going to lead blah blah blah then they are smoking from the wrong pipe.
It's not about leading. There are presumably tens or hundreds of thousands of people working in good faith to distribute the vaccines and inoculate the population. It's a massive undertaking that has been in planning for months. Is it going to be perfect? Of course not.
And then you have the armchair individual fake news bots saying, "The distribution of the vaccines is a mess." Then other fake news bots in the swarm echo the message. I can smell the fake news turds being dumped on the ground for other fake news bots to step in from a mile away.
Trust your sense of smell.
Its a matter of overpromising, underdelivering then blaming others. This is complicated but a coherent federal strategy is needed to make it work. When some staes are getting shorted on promised vaccines and other states have 70 year olds waiting outside first come first served something is all f'ed up.
Fake news bots or not, 2020 was full of wrong opinions, lies and ignorant hype. There are a lot of people who think the vaccine makes it go away, that everyone will be immune, which of course is not true. Apparently the rollout of the vaccine was supposed to be as simple as opening an app. Then there are the anti-vaccine "people" that, in some cases, have ruined vaccines.
The whole thing has become one big shrug in terms of personal involvement regarding news and reality having any personal affect. Now less the better. When it happens where I live it happens. Until then I mask up when out and otherwise avoid. I have zero hope about any of it, it will happen when it happens.
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MileHigh
Haven't you grown up all your life with the understanding that a vaccine gives you long-term or possibly life-long immunity to a virus? Haven't you grown up with the understanding that the widespread usage of a vaccine will essentially eliminate a virus?
If the answers are "yes" and "yes" why would you assume that it is not the case for this virus? You know how they say that as you get older your immune system accumulates a series of specific preexisting antibodies that can be called upon to replicate and then kill an already-seen virus if needed? I am not a medical expert but I can apply my knowledge and common sense to conclude that this virus will almost certainly not be fundamentally different from other viruses with respect to communicability and immunization.
In that sense my BS filter is on and when you say this, "There are a lot of people who think the vaccine makes it go away, that everyone will be immune, which of course is not true" to me it sounds like you are just one more node in a swarm of individual fake news bots.
I am just trusting my gut instinct for me.
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MileHigh
Haven't you grown up all your life with the understanding that a vaccine gives you long-term or possibly life-long immunity to a virus?
No.
Not a virus, I get a vaccine for the flu virus annually for example.
Haven't you grown up with the understanding that the widespread usage of a vaccine will essentially eliminate a virus?
Again, No. See previous answer.
If the answers are "yes" and "yes" why would you assume that it is not the case for this virus?
Correct answers were "No and No"
I am not a medical expert
First point of agreement.
but I can apply my knowledge and common sense to conclude that this virus will almost certainly not be fundamentally different from other viruses with respect to communicability and immunization.
Partially correct.
It will be like other flu viruses that mutate etc and an updated vaccine will likely be needed annually perhaps more, perhaps less.
In that sense my BS filter is on and when you say this, "There are a lot of people who think the vaccine makes it go away, that everyone will be immune, which of course is not true" to me it sounds like you are just one more node in a swarm of individual fake news bots.
I am just trusting my gut instinct for me.
Clearly
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MileHigh
Haven't you grown up all your life with the understanding that a vaccine gives you long-term or possibly life-long immunity to a virus? Haven't you grown up with the understanding that the widespread usage of a vaccine will essentially eliminate a virus?
If the answers are "yes" and "yes" why would you assume that it is not the case for this virus? You know how they say that as you get older your immune system accumulates a series of specific preexisting antibodies that can be called upon to replicate and then kill an already-seen virus if needed? I am not a medical expert but I can apply my knowledge and common sense to conclude that this virus will almost certainly not be fundamentally different from other viruses with respect to communicability and immunization.
In that sense my BS filter is on and when you say this, "There are a lot of people who think the vaccine makes it go away, that everyone will be immune, which of course is not true" to me it sounds like you are just one more node in a swarm of individual fake news bots.
I am just trusting my gut instinct for me.
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CaptainCorella
But the Pfizer and the Moderna ones use a new technique that's something to do with RNA or DNA (sorry, can't recall which).
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GasLightStreetQuote
MileHigh
Haven't you grown up all your life with the understanding that a vaccine gives you long-term or possibly life-long immunity to a virus? Haven't you grown up with the understanding that the widespread usage of a vaccine will essentially eliminate a virus?
If the answers are "yes" and "yes" why would you assume that it is not the case for this virus? You know how they say that as you get older your immune system accumulates a series of specific preexisting antibodies that can be called upon to replicate and then kill an already-seen virus if needed? I am not a medical expert but I can apply my knowledge and common sense to conclude that this virus will almost certainly not be fundamentally different from other viruses with respect to communicability and immunization.
In that sense my BS filter is on and when you say this, "There are a lot of people who think the vaccine makes it go away, that everyone will be immune, which of course is not true" to me it sounds like you are just one more node in a swarm of individual fake news bots.
I am just trusting my gut instinct for me.
You're BS filter is full of BS. Your gut instinct is chewing on a big fake steak from Fox News.
I'm not assuming anything with SARS-CoV-2, you are. Plus the fact that people that get the vaccine can still transmit it, which you seem to think is not real. You are assuming.
You're assuming that the mythical human herd immunity can happen, which is ridiculous. It's not gonna happen. Too many people will not get it - because they're chemtrailers or flat earthers or... they live in places where it's not going to be available.
You're just one big well rounded assumer.
If you get a vaccine and think you can go without a mask you're continuing the spread. If you choose to not get that then by all means be a spreader.
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CaptainCorella
But the Pfizer and the Moderna ones use a new technique that's something to do with RNA or DNA (sorry, can't recall which).
Here's a hint: ModeRNA
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MileHighQuote
GasLightStreetQuote
MileHigh
Haven't you grown up all your life with the understanding that a vaccine gives you long-term or possibly life-long immunity to a virus? Haven't you grown up with the understanding that the widespread usage of a vaccine will essentially eliminate a virus?
If the answers are "yes" and "yes" why would you assume that it is not the case for this virus? You know how they say that as you get older your immune system accumulates a series of specific preexisting antibodies that can be called upon to replicate and then kill an already-seen virus if needed? I am not a medical expert but I can apply my knowledge and common sense to conclude that this virus will almost certainly not be fundamentally different from other viruses with respect to communicability and immunization.
In that sense my BS filter is on and when you say this, "There are a lot of people who think the vaccine makes it go away, that everyone will be immune, which of course is not true" to me it sounds like you are just one more node in a swarm of individual fake news bots.
I am just trusting my gut instinct for me.
You're BS filter is full of BS. Your gut instinct is chewing on a big fake steak from Fox News.
I'm not assuming anything with SARS-CoV-2, you are. Plus the fact that people that get the vaccine can still transmit it, which you seem to think is not real. You are assuming.
You're assuming that the mythical human herd immunity can happen, which is ridiculous. It's not gonna happen. Too many people will not get it - because they're chemtrailers or flat earthers or... they live in places where it's not going to be available.
You're just one big well rounded assumer.
If you get a vaccine and think you can go without a mask you're continuing the spread. If you choose to not get that then by all means be a spreader.
Was your BS filter on when they said to not use masks for two or more months at the beginning of the pandemic? Mine was on.
And more recently my BS filter is on for what is seemingly an opposite form of rhetoric that is taking place right now. Now they are saying you need a mask even if you have had both shots plus x number of weeks, right? Now they are saying that you can still pass on the virus when you have immunity, even though presumably your "army of antibodies" is defending your system and killing off the virus in short order. My BS filter is on for that.
Yes, you are correct, you need to get a generic flu shot each year because the flu virus is in constant flux. Even the annual flu shot is "out of date" with respect to the current status of the spectrum of flu viruses when it is released. With respect to Covid-19, we are currently aware of a single main variant and they are telling us that the current vaccines will also work with this variant. To me it sounds like we still don't have enough information to conclude that the Covid virus is going to be a continuous moving target like the flue virus. But apparently you have already decided and/or the media have decided that this is going to be the case. So you are assuming one thing for this example and I am assuming another thing.
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CaptainCorella
But the Pfizer and the Moderna ones use a new technique that's something to do with RNA or DNA (sorry, can't recall which).
Here's a hint: ModeRNA
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MileHighQuote
KoenQuote
CaptainCorella
But the Pfizer and the Moderna ones use a new technique that's something to do with RNA or DNA (sorry, can't recall which).
Here's a hint: ModeRNA
But the net result from the new-style RNA-based vaccines is still the same. Your immune system develops a new antibody that will kill both the "fake" threat and the real Covid-19 threat. Hence you have a new antibody in your arsenal of antibodies that stand on guard to kill invading viruses.
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GasLightStreetQuote
MileHighQuote
GasLightStreetQuote
MileHigh
Haven't you grown up all your life with the understanding that a vaccine gives you long-term or possibly life-long immunity to a virus? Haven't you grown up with the understanding that the widespread usage of a vaccine will essentially eliminate a virus?
If the answers are "yes" and "yes" why would you assume that it is not the case for this virus? You know how they say that as you get older your immune system accumulates a series of specific preexisting antibodies that can be called upon to replicate and then kill an already-seen virus if needed? I am not a medical expert but I can apply my knowledge and common sense to conclude that this virus will almost certainly not be fundamentally different from other viruses with respect to communicability and immunization.
In that sense my BS filter is on and when you say this, "There are a lot of people who think the vaccine makes it go away, that everyone will be immune, which of course is not true" to me it sounds like you are just one more node in a swarm of individual fake news bots.
I am just trusting my gut instinct for me.
You're BS filter is full of BS. Your gut instinct is chewing on a big fake steak from Fox News.
I'm not assuming anything with SARS-CoV-2, you are. Plus the fact that people that get the vaccine can still transmit it, which you seem to think is not real. You are assuming.
You're assuming that the mythical human herd immunity can happen, which is ridiculous. It's not gonna happen. Too many people will not get it - because they're chemtrailers or flat earthers or... they live in places where it's not going to be available.
You're just one big well rounded assumer.
If you get a vaccine and think you can go without a mask you're continuing the spread. If you choose to not get that then by all means be a spreader.
Was your BS filter on when they said to not use masks for two or more months at the beginning of the pandemic? Mine was on.
And more recently my BS filter is on for what is seemingly an opposite form of rhetoric that is taking place right now. Now they are saying you need a mask even if you have had both shots plus x number of weeks, right? Now they are saying that you can still pass on the virus when you have immunity, even though presumably your "army of antibodies" is defending your system and killing off the virus in short order. My BS filter is on for that.
Yes, you are correct, you need to get a generic flu shot each year because the flu virus is in constant flux. Even the annual flu shot is "out of date" with respect to the current status of the spectrum of flu viruses when it is released. With respect to Covid-19, we are currently aware of a single main variant and they are telling us that the current vaccines will also work with this variant. To me it sounds like we still don't have enough information to conclude that the Covid virus is going to be a continuous moving target like the flue virus. But apparently you have already decided and/or the media have decided that this is going to be the case. So you are assuming one thing for this example and I am assuming another thing.
I've been wearing a mask once I understood what was going on. I didn't follow the seesaw and lies from "politicians" and their little friends.
Your BS filter - you just called it "covid virus" and you're attempting to say that I'm being manipulated by the media in thinking that because there's a vaccine we need to still mask up?
Go play golf. I hear it's a good thing to do when you don't know what you're talking about.
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slewanQuote
georgie48
Can anyone explain why the number of US casualties reported by the New York Times is systematically around 7000-8000 lower than that of "worldometers". I've found the latter very consistant, based on daily reports from many countries (double check ). There are some doubts on their list, though. I found it strange that f.i. Macao, the famous, crowded, former Portuguese, now Chinese gambling city, being stuck on 46 infections and no casualties for many months now. Did they close down the town with all its very popular casino's, 10 months ago or so? Or do they keep the figures so low to allow "safe" casino gambling?
Macao => take a look at the map. It's easy to cut off Macao. In fact all connections but one bridge is closes. Foreigners are not allowed to enter (even if they live there)
see: [www.macaotourism.gov.mo]
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CaptainCorellaQuote
MileHighQuote
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CaptainCorella
But the Pfizer and the Moderna ones use a new technique that's something to do with RNA or DNA (sorry, can't recall which).
Here's a hint: ModeRNA
But the net result from the new-style RNA-based vaccines is still the same. Your immune system develops a new antibody that will kill both the "fake" threat and the real Covid-19 threat. Hence you have a new antibody in your arsenal of antibodies that stand on guard to kill invading viruses.
The original posting that has led to this sub-thread, was about confidence, and I tried to make the point that 'older' style vaccines can be taken with good confidence that they will both work, and will not have any significant side effects over time.
The Pfizer and the ModeRNA (lol!) products use previously untried technology and even assuming animal testing for the past year, cannot be said with 100% confidence to have no long term effects. I hope they don't, I genuinely think they won't, but a true scientist always holds on to that tiny sliver of doubt. (It makes her/him a better scientist).
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MileHighQuote
CaptainCorellaQuote
MileHighQuote
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CaptainCorella
But the Pfizer and the Moderna ones use a new technique that's something to do with RNA or DNA (sorry, can't recall which).
Here's a hint: ModeRNA
But the net result from the new-style RNA-based vaccines is still the same. Your immune system develops a new antibody that will kill both the "fake" threat and the real Covid-19 threat. Hence you have a new antibody in your arsenal of antibodies that stand on guard to kill invading viruses.
The original posting that has led to this sub-thread, was about confidence, and I tried to make the point that 'older' style vaccines can be taken with good confidence that they will both work, and will not have any significant side effects over time.
The Pfizer and the ModeRNA (lol!) products use previously untried technology and even assuming animal testing for the past year, cannot be said with 100% confidence to have no long term effects. I hope they don't, I genuinely think they won't, but a true scientist always holds on to that tiny sliver of doubt. (It makes her/him a better scientist).
In my opinion "long term effects" is another abused term in this day and age. You can probably state with nearly 100% confidence that whether they be old vaccines or new-style vaccines, the small amount that you inject into your body is essentially 100% metabolized and broken down into "trash" within a week. The body's "garbage cleanup crews" move in and clean up. The injection is something like 99.999% salty water and the rest is the vaccine itself.
So it's completely gone after a week, and the legacy left behind is that your immune system has a new antibody in its war chest.
Relative to the vaccine, if you actually knew how much dust and dirt and foreign life forms you breathe in over the course of a week you might be shocked. However, it's all 100% natural and your garbage cleanup crews are also dealing with that.
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MileHigh
In my opinion "long term effects" is another abused term in this day and age. You can probably state with nearly 100% confidence that whether they be old vaccines or new-style vaccines, the small amount that you inject into your body is essentially 100% metabolized and broken down into "trash" within a week. The body's "garbage cleanup crews" move in and clean up. The injection is something like 99.999% salty water and the rest is the vaccine itself.
So it's completely gone after a week, and the legacy left behind is that your immune system has a new antibody in its war chest.
Relative to the vaccine, if you actually knew how much dust and dirt and foreign life forms you breathe in over the course of a week you might be shocked. However, it's all 100% natural and your garbage cleanup crews are also dealing with that.
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JadedFadedQuote
MileHigh
In my opinion "long term effects" is another abused term in this day and age. You can probably state with nearly 100% confidence that whether they be old vaccines or new-style vaccines, the small amount that you inject into your body is essentially 100% metabolized and broken down into "trash" within a week. The body's "garbage cleanup crews" move in and clean up. The injection is something like 99.999% salty water and the rest is the vaccine itself.
So it's completely gone after a week, and the legacy left behind is that your immune system has a new antibody in its war chest.
Relative to the vaccine, if you actually knew how much dust and dirt and foreign life forms you breathe in over the course of a week you might be shocked. However, it's all 100% natural and your garbage cleanup crews are also dealing with that.
Regular flu shot side effects:
[www.cdc.gov]
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JadedFadedQuote
MileHigh
In my opinion "long term effects" is another abused term in this day and age. You can probably state with nearly 100% confidence that whether they be old vaccines or new-style vaccines, the small amount that you inject into your body is essentially 100% metabolized and broken down into "trash" within a week. The body's "garbage cleanup crews" move in and clean up. The injection is something like 99.999% salty water and the rest is the vaccine itself.
So it's completely gone after a week, and the legacy left behind is that your immune system has a new antibody in its war chest.
Relative to the vaccine, if you actually knew how much dust and dirt and foreign life forms you breathe in over the course of a week you might be shocked. However, it's all 100% natural and your garbage cleanup crews are also dealing with that.
Regular flu shot side effects:
[www.cdc.gov]