Yes he was trying to acquire exclusive rights to it but thankfully he got told where to go.

Nate

Quote
doitywoik
Appears like Trump was clandestinely trying to get exclusive access to a Corona vaccine …

(English: )
[www.theguardian.com], [www.politico.eu], [www.newsweek.com]

Here's an additional detail from the SZ:
The Company [CureVac] has several vaccine candidates and announced first clinical tests for June. The majority shareholder of CureVac, with a stake of more than 80 percent, is SAP co-founder Dietmar Hopp through his holding company Dievini. On Sunday, [Dievini] gave Trump a rejection that could not have been clearer. "We want to develop a vaccine for the whole world and not for individual countries", Dievini managing director Christof Hettich told the newspaper "Mannheimer Morgen." [www.sueddeutsche.de]

(German: )
[www.faz.net], [www.sueddeutsche.de], [www.merkur.de], [www.welt.de]

I read this in the Guardian website. If true it would be the most despicable act a world 'leader' could do in a world crisis of this magnitude.

The Guardian is a well regarded newspaper.

Nate



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-03-16 02:36 by Nate.

Don't know if posted before:
Netherlands: closing schools, pubs, restaurants, coffee-shops etc.

CDC recommends canceling events with 50 or more people for the next eight weeks throughout US

Quote
treaclefingers
I'm a bit of an analyst, so forgive me for doing some number crunching, using the stats from this website:
[www.worldometers.info].

OK, the death rate originally estimated at 2% was wrong when comparing deaths to the overall number infected, which WHO eventually then changed to 3.4%, (oh and by the way, that percentage is now 3.8%) which then was correct, for what it was calculating.

But I felt what it was calculating was still incorrect, as that denominator was growing faster than the numerator, ie you don't 'die' the day you get the disease, it takes time.

The correct denominator to use, I feel, is in the number of outcomes. When the pandemic is over, this is the ultimate number we will look at, as you don't have the disease your entire life. You either survive, or you don't.

So, using that, for the longest time I saw that the death rate calculated on the site was actually 6%. over twice as high as WHO states. Recent days have had this creep up to 8%. This is as per that link.

BUT, I wondered what the CHINA numbers were, compared to rest of the world, as today we surpassed both numbers that have the disease, and number that died outside of China.

For China, crunching the numbers, you get 70133 outcomes, this with 3199 deaths, and 66934 survived. If you divide deaths by outcomes, you get a death rate of 4.6%. Much higher than the WHO figure, but much less than the death rate the website is calculating for the overall rate.

This means that the death rate currently for the Rest of World has to be higher, and it is. Of the total ROW, 9684 have recovered, and 3297 have died. 12981 outcomes in total. The death rate for ROW therefore, is 25.4% currently.

I've no idea why this would be, and I'm not trying to stoke any panic, this is the numbers that are being published. I think if you did this 'by country', you might find an even larger skewing of the death rate for some countries. Korea, Germany and Norway for instance seem to have relatively low death rates. That means it has to be even higher for other countries.

Very disconcerting. Hopefully the outcomes will improve and this will change this stat. Again, this is just something that I noticed and if you can show me why I'm wrong, I'd love to be proven wrong.

PS, these exact numbers will change of course, but right at the moment they appear accurate. It may simply be a case that we've drastically underestimated the overall number of cases, which then bring all the rates down. But that also means we have a significantly larger of cases than is currently being estimated, by an order of magnitudes.

Yes I’m sure you are correct about the number of cases being under reported.
Either it’s intentional or many cases are just officially undiagnosed - for reasons such not being severe enough to seek medical attention, etc.

Also your point makes sense to look at outcomes. This becomes more accurate once things slow down. Right now actual cases are growing so fast that the
death rate must be higher than reported. This will continue to be true until
the number of cases at the time of infection can be determined and the death
rate taken based on that number. This will be difficult.

I’m unsure about your “rest of the world numbers” and if they are accurate
- this is because I just don’t know and also that your 25.4% number seems so high. Have you checked these numbers on any other sites or reporting agencies?

You are correct - this certainly is alarming!

In light of the CDC recommendation that all events above 50 people be cancelled for the next 2 months, I'd say that pretty much says it. What to do? Postpone the whole tour and try again in August-October? Try to salvage the existing July dates? We have no idea when society will resume again.

Quote
Ket

Quote
doitywoik
Appears like Trump was clandestinely trying to get exclusive access to a Corona vaccine …

(English: )
[www.theguardian.com], [www.politico.eu], [www.newsweek.com]

Here's an additional detail from the SZ:
The Company [CureVac] has several vaccine candidates and announced first clinical tests for June. The majority shareholder of CureVac, with a stake of more than 80 percent, is SAP co-founder Dietmar Hopp through his holding company Dievini. On Sunday, [Dievini] gave Trump a rejection that could not have been clearer. "We want to develop a vaccine for the whole world and not for individual countries", Dievini managing director Christof Hettich told the newspaper "Mannheimer Morgen." [www.sueddeutsche.de]

(German: )
[www.faz.net], [www.sueddeutsche.de], [www.merkur.de], [www.welt.de]

I read this in the Guardian website. If true it would be the most despicable act a world 'leader' could do in a world crisis of this magnitude.

First reports concerning this issue popped up yesterday in the evening.
Later on confirmed by the german ministry of health.
Statement of Hopp hopefully has been made without any backdoor.
Usually this kind of stuff is running behind the curtains.
Someone obviously had some interest to make it public...

The tour needs to be cancelled. This virus could affect the US through the end of the year or longer. Best to try for 2021. We need a directive by tomorrow from the band so we can all move on. We have much more pressing issues to deal with. The Stones as well.

I think that most of us would agree that Iran is not a reliable source of state news.

Satellites are picking up images of a brand new mass grave sight in the Qom area. I don't know, but perhaps there is a large discrepancy between the number of reported deaths and the size of the mass grave site.

[www.space.com]

Quote
shortfatfanny

Quote
Ket

Quote
doitywoik
Appears like Trump was clandestinely trying to get exclusive access to a Corona vaccine …

(English: )
[www.theguardian.com], [www.politico.eu], [www.newsweek.com]

Here's an additional detail from the SZ:
The Company [CureVac] has several vaccine candidates and announced first clinical tests for June. The majority shareholder of CureVac, with a stake of more than 80 percent, is SAP co-founder Dietmar Hopp through his holding company Dievini. On Sunday, [Dievini] gave Trump a rejection that could not have been clearer. "We want to develop a vaccine for the whole world and not for individual countries", Dievini managing director Christof Hettich told the newspaper "Mannheimer Morgen." [www.sueddeutsche.de]

(German: )
[www.faz.net], [www.sueddeutsche.de], [www.merkur.de], [www.welt.de]

I read this in the Guardian website. If true it would be the most despicable act a world 'leader' could do in a world crisis of this magnitude.

First reports concerning this issue popped up yesterday in the evening.
Later on confirmed by the german ministry of health.
Statement of Hopp hopefully has been made without any backdoor.
Usually this kind of stuff is running behind the curtains.
Someone obviously had some interest to make it public...

Why would Trump do that? Surely you don't have to be a rocket scientist to predict the bad blood and negative publicity that would generate. Not to mention being demoralizing and counterproductive for the researchers.

The US ambassador to Germany is denying it.

<<< Responding to the report, the U.S. ambassador to Germany, Richard Grenell, wrote on Twitter: “The Welt story was wrong.”

A U.S. official said: “This story is wildly overplayed ... We will continue to talk to any company that claims to be able to help. And any solution found would be shared with the world.” >>>

[www.reuters.com]

The twitter for the US ambassador to Germany:

[twitter.com]

The wiser thing would be to see how this story plays out over the next few days. Remember the Covington Catholic school boys fiasco?

Quote
jheying
The tour needs to be cancelled. This virus could affect the US through the end of the year or longer. Best to try for 2021. We need a directive by tomorrow from the band so we can all move on. We have much more pressing issues to deal with. The Stones as well.

I agree. Time for an announcement. Ticketmaster policy is for an immediate refund for a concert cancellation. Unfortunately it is time to get on with it. It’s beyond myself looking forward to a show. How life can change so fast. Unprecedented times.

Quote
MileHigh

Quote
shortfatfanny

Quote
Ket

Quote
doitywoik
Appears like Trump was clandestinely trying to get exclusive access to a Corona vaccine …

(English: )
[www.theguardian.com], [www.politico.eu], [www.newsweek.com]

Here's an additional detail from the SZ:
The Company [CureVac] has several vaccine candidates and announced first clinical tests for June. The majority shareholder of CureVac, with a stake of more than 80 percent, is SAP co-founder Dietmar Hopp through his holding company Dievini. On Sunday, [Dievini] gave Trump a rejection that could not have been clearer. "We want to develop a vaccine for the whole world and not for individual countries", Dievini managing director Christof Hettich told the newspaper "Mannheimer Morgen." [www.sueddeutsche.de]

(German: )
[www.faz.net], [www.sueddeutsche.de], [www.merkur.de], [www.welt.de]

I read this in the Guardian website. If true it would be the most despicable act a world 'leader' could do in a world crisis of this magnitude.

First reports concerning this issue popped up yesterday in the evening.
Later on confirmed by the german ministry of health.
Statement of Hopp hopefully has been made without any backdoor.
Usually this kind of stuff is running behind the curtains.
Someone obviously had some interest to make it public...

Why would Trump do that? Surely you don't have to be a rocket scientist to predict the bad blood and negative publicity that would generate. Not to mention being demoralizing and counterproductive for the researchers.

The US ambassador to Germany is denying it.

<<< Responding to the report, the U.S. ambassador to Germany, Richard Grenell, wrote on Twitter: “The Welt story was wrong.”

A U.S. official said: “This story is wildly overplayed ... We will continue to talk to any company that claims to be able to help. And any solution found would be shared with the world.” >>>

[www.reuters.com]

The twitter for the US ambassador to Germany:

[twitter.com]

The wiser thing would be to see how this story plays out over the next few days. Remember the Covington Catholic school boys fiasco?

Sure neither you and me know what is true...but seriously...what did you expect Grenell to tell ?
" The story is wildly overplayed..." usually term to describe there have been negotiations which probably
failed for whatever reason...they even could not find a common line for reply according to the quotes.

Quote
MileHigh
Why would Trump do that?

Why wouldn't he?

Re the vaccine hunter: I got it first from the TV news over here and several German-language newspapers, and looked for versions in English only later on.

The "Frankurter Allgemeine Zeitung" (FAZ) and the "Süddeutsche Zeitung" (SZ) are among the most respectable and well-regarded newspapers in the German-speaking area, so this is not just yellow press clickbaiting. And the way I understand it, also the Guardian and Newsweek are not exactly yellow press either. I guess we will get further details in the next couple of days (or maybe not … the US will certainly try to play the affair down, and the German government will not be too happy about it either, for not putting even more strain on the EU-US relations).

Apart from that, also Austria is in near-total lockdown now. Universities, libraries, schools etc. are closed already since Tue or Wed last week, borders are either completely closed or can be crossed only under special conditions, and from today on everything is closed with the exception of pharmacies, food stores/supermarkets and newspaper stands, and people are asked (not to say, ordered) to stay at home and not leave their flats/houses unless for buying food or so or unless they are needed for keeping the infrastructure intact. Several places in Tyrol have been quarantined completely. Tyrol is the province where the virus made its first appearance, coming over from Italy (the first two cases were an Austrian tourist returning from Italy and an Italian migrant worker), and where there is the highest number of infected. Tirols is a very popular area for skiing holidays, not only with Austrians but with tourists from all over Europe, and the après-ski partying culture makes it easy for a virus to spread quickly.

Already a week ago a special Corona testing service was set up, and people showing suspicious symptoms were asked not to go to a doctor's practice (not to potentially infect other people there) but to call that service, so doctors would come to your home and check you there. Presently they are preparing for the worst and in Vienna alone they are setting up 800 additional beds for Corona patients (or maybe they are even done by now).

As for the time line, on Feb 25 the first persons were tested positive for the virus in Austria and per today we have 860 infected, 4 of whom had to be submitted to intensive care (as per Thursday morning), 6 healed and 2 dead. The number of infected is rising daily. Yesterday they were still 672 infected (and 1 dead), the day before yesterday 504, and so on, see [www.trendingtopics.at]. The number of infected varies greatly among the different provinces, like in Tyrol there are 254 cases and in Carynthia only 6. [orf.at] (Austria is a rather small country, ca. 8,8 mill. inhabitants)

To give this post some Stones content, here's a Ronnie song that comes close in topic:
[www.youtube.com]

Quote
Nate
Wow my mother just found out someone she knew in Sicily has died of the virus.
Also in Italy they are apparently seeing increasing numbers of younger patients being admitted to hospitals with more serious symptoms of the virus.

Nate

Smokers? Italians do smoke quite a bit and this is a respiratory disease. Just wondering if the correlation fits.

Quote
stickyfingers101

Quote
mickschix
As I've said before, this crisis and how it impacts each of us is totally dependent on how each of our governments handle it! In the USA, we are BEHIND by about 8 weeks in adequate preparation due to the GOVERNMENT denying the seriousness of coronavirus, thus we are all at great risk. No denying that if we had proper precautions and medical response put in place in January, we would be in far better shape....just a fact. now folks are beginning to panic, supermarkets are emptying out of essentials and the possibility of our hospitals being unable to care for the sick is real! Not fun right now and all because of those in power being more worried about the DOW Jones than caring for the citizens. And the really sad thing is that this was avoidable ...or at least the severity could have been far less than what we're facing now.

some truth here....

our gov't reaction hasn't been great (but also hasn't been horrible either, IMO)....as MileHigh pointed out, there are a lot of complexities in the decisions being made, whether we like them or not.

however, WE are very much to blame....a rapid spread IS avoidable, but only if people take warnings seriously (which they very much are NOT).

as an example - I saw on the news that the bars in Boston were packed last night w/ young people wanting to party for the St. Patrick's Day Parade (which was cancelled)..."shoulder to shoulder" and "lines around the block".

As another example - I am a teacher and had 3 students (and 1 teacher) come in with "cold-like symptoms" just last Thursday....one of them even had a fever....this is despite 4 billion warnings and letters and statements to STAY HOME if you have ANY symptoms....especially fever.

how this illness impacts us is very much up to US...people are not heeding warnings or taking them seriously....that is on us, not the gov't.

we need to stop looking to gov't to "solve" everything, stop playing Monday Morning Quarterback and start doing what we already KNOW is right and WILL work.

here goes (again):

socially isolate other than necessity, wash your hands, try not to touch your face, stay home if you are sick, cover your cough.....

.....and don't go to the hospital unless directed to do so by a medical professional.

"we need to stop looking to gov't to "solve" everything, stop playing Monday Morning Quarterback and start doing what we already KNOW is right and WILL work." That is the post of the day!!! Well said.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-03-16 04:28 by RSbestbandever.

Quote
swimtothemoon

Quote
treaclefingers
I'm a bit of an analyst, so forgive me for doing some number crunching, using the stats from this website:
[www.worldometers.info].

OK, the death rate originally estimated at 2% was wrong when comparing deaths to the overall number infected, which WHO eventually then changed to 3.4%, (oh and by the way, that percentage is now 3.8%) which then was correct, for what it was calculating.

But I felt what it was calculating was still incorrect, as that denominator was growing faster than the numerator, ie you don't 'die' the day you get the disease, it takes time.

The correct denominator to use, I feel, is in the number of outcomes. When the pandemic is over, this is the ultimate number we will look at, as you don't have the disease your entire life. You either survive, or you don't.

So, using that, for the longest time I saw that the death rate calculated on the site was actually 6%. over twice as high as WHO states. Recent days have had this creep up to 8%. This is as per that link.

BUT, I wondered what the CHINA numbers were, compared to rest of the world, as today we surpassed both numbers that have the disease, and number that died outside of China.

For China, crunching the numbers, you get 70133 outcomes, this with 3199 deaths, and 66934 survived. If you divide deaths by outcomes, you get a death rate of 4.6%. Much higher than the WHO figure, but much less than the death rate the website is calculating for the overall rate.

This means that the death rate currently for the Rest of World has to be higher, and it is. Of the total ROW, 9684 have recovered, and 3297 have died. 12981 outcomes in total. The death rate for ROW therefore, is 25.4% currently.

I've no idea why this would be, and I'm not trying to stoke any panic, this is the numbers that are being published. I think if you did this 'by country', you might find an even larger skewing of the death rate for some countries. Korea, Germany and Norway for instance seem to have relatively low death rates. That means it has to be even higher for other countries.

Very disconcerting. Hopefully the outcomes will improve and this will change this stat. Again, this is just something that I noticed and if you can show me why I'm wrong, I'd love to be proven wrong.

PS, these exact numbers will change of course, but right at the moment they appear accurate. It may simply be a case that we've drastically underestimated the overall number of cases, which then bring all the rates down. But that also means we have a significantly larger of cases than is currently being estimated, by an order of magnitudes.

Yes I’m sure you are correct about the number of cases being under reported.
Either it’s intentional or many cases are just officially undiagnosed - for reasons such not being severe enough to seek medical attention, etc.

Also your point makes sense to look at outcomes. This becomes more accurate once things slow down. Right now actual cases are growing so fast that the
death rate must be higher than reported. This will continue to be true until
the number of cases at the time of infection can be determined and the death
rate taken based on that number. This will be difficult.

I’m unsure about your “rest of the world numbers” and if they are accurate
- this is because I just don’t know and also that your 25.4% number seems so high. Have you checked these numbers on any other sites or reporting agencies?

You are correct - this certainly is alarming!

Well you're right, this is an alarming number, but I'm just doing simple division using the published numbers. I'm not using anything that isn't already 'out there'.

Here is something even more troubling, and you could do this for any individual country, if you look at the numbers strictly for Italy, as I did the calculation above for China, you add total recovered + total deaths = total outcomes.

In Italy's case, 2335 + 1809 = 4144 If you then divide the number of deaths, by number of outcomes, you get 1809/4144= 43.7% death rate. Sooo...right now, to date, 43.7% of the outcomes in Italy have resulted in death.

I cannot imagine this can continue, based on what's happening in other parts of the world, but it at least seems like in the long run, it's going to be worse in Italy, and for some other countries, than others.

Again, this is just what they are reporting now. but with over 24747 cases in Italy right now, even if EVERY SINGLE OTHER PERSON recovered (which is extremely unlikely of course) you'd have an overall death rate of 7.3%, 3.9% higher than what WHO states the death rate to be.

Please check my numbers...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-03-16 04:30 by treaclefingers.

Yeah there's no way this tour can happen. Besides, if states/counties have bans over 50 people soon then their hand is forced. Hand of Fate indeed.

Yep, that should just about do it for the tour.

The European Union is seeking to restrict the export of ventilation equipment outside of the union and I don’t blame them why would they want to help us after we left but no need to worry we can all get a blue passport soon.

Nate

Gov. Inslee to sign an emergency declaration temporarily closing bars, restaurants and entertainment venues, and cap public gatherings at 50 people across Washington.
[www.seattletimes.com]

As little as a week ago, I would have thought this an over-reaction.
Now, I welcome it.

Also, All MGM casinos and hotels closing as of Tuesday.
You know things are getting real when casinos choose to close on their own.

How are you folks doing across the pond in Europe. I live outside DC and we are
pretty much shut down. Stores have a lot of empty shelves, and for some reason toilet paper is in short supply, people are hording it,which is pretty crazy. I was out at the grocery the other day, managed to get the food I needed without any difficulty. Stopped at wine store and they were well stocked so I loaded up in case of an emergency.No gathering of more than 50 people. They closed Broadway and a couple of places are closing movie theaters. Restaurants are open, but may have to switch to carry out only. Can't really say anything about the tour, probably will have to be postponed. Our @#$%& President is just making matters worse, sorry folks we sort of f&cked up the last election, it happens occasionally.

Great analysis treaclefingers. Very interesting.

Quote
chris girard
How are you folks doing across the pond in Europe. I live outside DC and we are
pretty much shut down. Stores have a lot of empty shelves, and for some reason toilet paper is in short supply, people are hording it,which is pretty crazy. I was out at the grocery the other day, managed to get the food I needed without any difficulty. Stopped at wine store and they were well stocked so I loaded up in case of an emergency.No gathering of more than 50 people. They closed Broadway and a couple of places are closing movie theaters. Restaurants are open, but may have to switch to carry out only. Can't really say anything about the tour, probably will have to be postponed. Our @#$%& President is just making matters worse, sorry folks we sort of f&cked up the last election, it happens occasionally.

Here in Vienna people suddenly stormed the supermarkets on Friday morning. When I went to the supermarket closest to my place in the early afternoon there were almost no customers and the place was almost sold out on vegetables, meat, champagne, noodles, milk of a certain brand (the cheapest) - and toilet paper The stock of red and white wine was somewhat thinned out, too, but nobody had gone for the stronger likker (yet?). Supplies of beer were just as usual, and the brand of milk that costs 10 ct more per liter war also untouched.

The toilet paper phenomenon occured also in Germany, to judge from the news. The strange thing about it is that Corona may do a lot of things to you but giving you diarrhoea is not among them ...

When I went shopping on Saturday, things were back to normal in that place (with everything restocked). I heard that also the home improvement markets were stormed (so one gets an idea what people actually intend to do while in home office). Appears like such markets are having the sales of their life now.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2020-03-16 06:55 by doitywoik.

It's funny that toilet paper is MADE in Finland, but people still hoard it. Hand sanitizer is out at the moment.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-03-16 08:04 by Topi.

Quote
SomeTorontoGirl
American Airlines cancelling most long-haul flights through May 6th except twice daily to London and 3 weekly flights to Tokyo...

“American Airlines said Saturday it plans to cut 75% of its international flights through May 6 and ground nearly all its widebody fleet, as airlines respond to the global collapse in travel demand due to the coronavirus pandemic.”

[www.cnbc.com]

Oh, that's it, my flight on an American ticket was May 4...

"EvergreenHealth doctor tests positive for coronavirus, in critical condition"
[www.seattletimes.com]

Quote
MisterDDDD
Gov. Inslee to sign an emergency declaration temporarily closing bars, restaurants and entertainment venues, and cap public gatherings at 50 people across Washington.
[www.seattletimes.com]

As little as a week ago, I would have thought this an over-reaction.
Now, I welcome it.

Also, All MGM casinos and hotels closing as of Tuesday.
You know things are getting real when casinos choose to close on their own.

reports from ground zero for the US in Seattle in addition to the article above:

[www.seattletimes.com]

[www.seattletimes.com]

[www.seattletimes.com]

In reference to the first article, in Florida, the maximum unemployment benefit is $275 per week If the job situation gets worse nationally as suggested by Boeing then lots of folks are going to be hurting unless the companies help.

Quote
treaclefingers
.....
I think if you did this 'by country', you might find an even larger skewing of the death rate for some countries. Korea, Germany and Norway for instance seem to have relatively low death rates. That means it has to be even higher for other countries.

You are reading the numbers like the devil is reading the bible.

Norway have been testing more than 10,000 people, more than USA, which is 50 times bigger population wise. South Korea is world champion in testing, they have tested EVERY case. For most countries, except for Singapore, Taiwan, South Korea, the testing is limited, and since symptoms are mild with young people, you loose out on many.

WHO is quite clear about the fact that this virus is may be 10 times more dangerous than the annual flu. The actual mortality rate will not be available until one year from now.

One more factor here: Norway got the first reported positive coronavirus case Feb 26. That is less than three weeks ago. Italy has got the coronavirus since mid January, i.e. one month more. First young and healthy people bring the virus to the country. Then they get sick, it takes 2-3 weeks, then they spread the disease in their own country, it takes another 2-3 weeks. The explosive death rates appear approx two months after the first case, if you do not close down completely.

Italy closed down 11 known villages, known clusters, 3 weeks ago. These villages are now "flattening the curve". The rest of Italy is in a serious crisis because they waited too long with the strong measures in closing down.

MONEY RULES! If you blame it on the economy, by saying people need to keep working, to have an income, then there will be no jobs left, and the country will be left with thousands of dead people and it will take years to recover. ACT NOW. Stay at home. Get your government to ban crowds larger than 5 people. That is the only way to have 2021 looking like a normal year - 2020 will go into the history anyway, as the year we got to see the difference in good and bad leaders across the world. The history will tell. The death numbers don't lie.

Bjornulf