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daspyknowsQuote
stickyfingers101Quote
VoodooLounge13
With governments (Israel) indicating that the Pfizer vax isn't all that effective against the Delta variant, and states already considering re-instituting mask wearing mandates, it's hard to imagine things being under control by the Fall here in the US.
it's 65% effective in preventing Covid altogether....and 93% effective against Severe Covid....those are excellent odds...
[www.cnn.com]
the entire point all along was to "flatten the curve"...93% effectiveness against severe Covid does that very effectively.....
not everything can be prevented...the point is to "flatten the curve" so the hospitals can effectively deal with the severe cases....."not severe Covid" means you'll get through it on your own....
"Flatten the Curve"....this is the entire point of the Vax...it was never to give 100% security-prevention, which is impossible and a fool's errand.
However, since this thread is about the tour: if the Stones don't want to tour, I get that....they are old and have health concerns....their chances of "severe Covid" are elevated even with the Vax.
makes sense....but, if they are waiting for the world to get to 100% vax-rates, or for the Vax to be 100% effective in preventing all variants forever...well, then there will never be another Stones tour....
Covid is here to stay...the Vax "flattens the curve"....tours (and life) will have to take place within that context.
If vaccination rates are 70%, 80% or 90% this applies. If vaccination rates are 40% all you have to look at is Springfield Missouri where they are out of ventilators and put out an emergency request for respiratory therapists. The next 60 to 90 days will be telling in the US in regards to virus transmission. Is a Stones tour advisable during that time frame? Ask the insurance company underwriting the tour.
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daspyknowsQuote
kovachQuote
daspyknowsQuote
kovach
I'm sure insurance actuaries are running numbers and will ultimately call the shots here (no pun intended).
I haven't been following the hospitalization or death #'s here in the states recently though I thought I saw a report suggesting with the vaccine and immunity from having the bug they're about equal with the flu at this point.
If that's the case, nobody's cancelled tours over the seasonal flu.
Just sayin...
Though some mutant variant I suppose could pop up at any point and wreak havoc around the world again. But as the saying goes, you go to war with the army you have, not the one you wish you had. Today the army of data makes it look possible; come Labor Day, we can only wish we knew...
Again, yes I know this wasn't the flu. But I think the best hope is we can turn it into one. Only time will tell...
Where did you see that? In Missouri they are sending out emergency requests for respiratory therapists. People don't die from the seasonal flu in the summer either. I do agree, the insurance companies are one of the key constituents deciding on the tour.
I think it was one of those articles you refused to read because it wasn't from a far left media company as defined by the "Allsides Media Bias Chart" (even though the group that runs this site advocates for legalizing victimless 'crimes' like smoking marijuana and such so I'm not sure they can really be declared to be 'far right' either). Here it is again if you want to read it; however it appears this was written before the delta variant so may be a moot point now:
Daily U.S. COVID-19 Deaths are Approaching the Influenza Average
Oh, so ne of those sources that just makes crap up. Advocating marijuana legalization does not mean a source is left of center. John Boehner and Matt Gaetz are strong advocates and calling them liberal is like calling David Duke an advocate of diversity.
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kovachQuote
daspyknowsQuote
kovachQuote
daspyknowsQuote
kovach
I'm sure insurance actuaries are running numbers and will ultimately call the shots here (no pun intended).
I haven't been following the hospitalization or death #'s here in the states recently though I thought I saw a report suggesting with the vaccine and immunity from having the bug they're about equal with the flu at this point.
If that's the case, nobody's cancelled tours over the seasonal flu.
Just sayin...
Though some mutant variant I suppose could pop up at any point and wreak havoc around the world again. But as the saying goes, you go to war with the army you have, not the one you wish you had. Today the army of data makes it look possible; come Labor Day, we can only wish we knew...
Again, yes I know this wasn't the flu. But I think the best hope is we can turn it into one. Only time will tell...
Where did you see that? In Missouri they are sending out emergency requests for respiratory therapists. People don't die from the seasonal flu in the summer either. I do agree, the insurance companies are one of the key constituents deciding on the tour.
I think it was one of those articles you refused to read because it wasn't from a far left media company as defined by the "Allsides Media Bias Chart" (even though the group that runs this site advocates for legalizing victimless 'crimes' like smoking marijuana and such so I'm not sure they can really be declared to be 'far right' either). Here it is again if you want to read it; however it appears this was written before the delta variant so may be a moot point now:
Daily U.S. COVID-19 Deaths are Approaching the Influenza Average
Oh, so ne of those sources that just makes crap up. Advocating marijuana legalization does not mean a source is left of center. John Boehner and Matt Gaetz are strong advocates and calling them liberal is like calling David Duke an advocate of diversity.
Why don't you just read it before refuting it? I'm a numbers guy, maybe it's all wrong. Convince me.
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daspyknowsQuote
kovachQuote
daspyknowsQuote
kovachQuote
daspyknowsQuote
kovach
I'm sure insurance actuaries are running numbers and will ultimately call the shots here (no pun intended).
I haven't been following the hospitalization or death #'s here in the states recently though I thought I saw a report suggesting with the vaccine and immunity from having the bug they're about equal with the flu at this point.
If that's the case, nobody's cancelled tours over the seasonal flu.
Just sayin...
Though some mutant variant I suppose could pop up at any point and wreak havoc around the world again. But as the saying goes, you go to war with the army you have, not the one you wish you had. Today the army of data makes it look possible; come Labor Day, we can only wish we knew...
Again, yes I know this wasn't the flu. But I think the best hope is we can turn it into one. Only time will tell...
Where did you see that? In Missouri they are sending out emergency requests for respiratory therapists. People don't die from the seasonal flu in the summer either. I do agree, the insurance companies are one of the key constituents deciding on the tour.
I think it was one of those articles you refused to read because it wasn't from a far left media company as defined by the "Allsides Media Bias Chart" (even though the group that runs this site advocates for legalizing victimless 'crimes' like smoking marijuana and such so I'm not sure they can really be declared to be 'far right' either). Here it is again if you want to read it; however it appears this was written before the delta variant so may be a moot point now:
Daily U.S. COVID-19 Deaths are Approaching the Influenza Average
Oh, so ne of those sources that just makes crap up. Advocating marijuana legalization does not mean a source is left of center. John Boehner and Matt Gaetz are strong advocates and calling them liberal is like calling David Duke an advocate of diversity.
Why don't you just read it before refuting it? I'm a numbers guy, maybe it's all wrong. Convince me.
Tell me how many people are dying of the seasonal flu in July. People are dying of Covid in July albeit a much lower number. In January Covid deaths outnumbered influenza deaths. Can we at least agree on that?
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kovachQuote
daspyknowsQuote
kovach
I'm sure insurance actuaries are running numbers and will ultimately call the shots here (no pun intended).
I haven't been following the hospitalization or death #'s here in the states recently though I thought I saw a report suggesting with the vaccine and immunity from having the bug they're about equal with the flu at this point.
If that's the case, nobody's cancelled tours over the seasonal flu.
Just sayin...
Though some mutant variant I suppose could pop up at any point and wreak havoc around the world again. But as the saying goes, you go to war with the army you have, not the one you wish you had. Today the army of data makes it look possible; come Labor Day, we can only wish we knew...
Again, yes I know this wasn't the flu. But I think the best hope is we can turn it into one. Only time will tell...
Where did you see that? In Missouri they are sending out emergency requests for respiratory therapists. People don't die from the seasonal flu in the summer either. I do agree, the insurance companies are one of the key constituents deciding on the tour.
I think it was one of those articles you refused to read because it wasn't from a far left media company as defined by the "Allsides Media Bias Chart" (even though the group that runs this site advocates for legalizing victimless 'crimes' like smoking marijuana and such so I'm not sure they can really be declared to be 'far right' either). Here it is again if you want to read it; however it appears this was written before the delta variant so may be a moot point now:
Daily U.S. COVID-19 Deaths are Approaching the Influenza Average
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JN99Quote
kovachQuote
daspyknowsQuote
kovach
I'm sure insurance actuaries are running numbers and will ultimately call the shots here (no pun intended).
I haven't been following the hospitalization or death #'s here in the states recently though I thought I saw a report suggesting with the vaccine and immunity from having the bug they're about equal with the flu at this point.
If that's the case, nobody's cancelled tours over the seasonal flu.
Just sayin...
Though some mutant variant I suppose could pop up at any point and wreak havoc around the world again. But as the saying goes, you go to war with the army you have, not the one you wish you had. Today the army of data makes it look possible; come Labor Day, we can only wish we knew...
Again, yes I know this wasn't the flu. But I think the best hope is we can turn it into one. Only time will tell...
Where did you see that? In Missouri they are sending out emergency requests for respiratory therapists. People don't die from the seasonal flu in the summer either. I do agree, the insurance companies are one of the key constituents deciding on the tour.
I think it was one of those articles you refused to read because it wasn't from a far left media company as defined by the "Allsides Media Bias Chart" (even though the group that runs this site advocates for legalizing victimless 'crimes' like smoking marijuana and such so I'm not sure they can really be declared to be 'far right' either). Here it is again if you want to read it; however it appears this was written before the delta variant so may be a moot point now:
Daily U.S. COVID-19 Deaths are Approaching the Influenza Average
Published June 16th so it's already stale. Delta. It is actually considered in the article:
"...barring an outbreak of a new highly transmissible and vaccine-resistant COVID-19 virus variant, normality is well in sight if not already here"
Well, here we are with the highly transmissible and (somewhat at least) vaccine resistant variant. Delta changes the game, to what extent we wait and see. And there will be more variants.
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stickyfingers101
I also promise you there are plenty of insurance companies that would underwrite a Stones Tour if they went out tomorrow....guaranteed.
somebody underwrote Clapton and Bruce and Gn'R....there is money to be made and the insurance companies know it.
it's the Stones that are waiting...and that is their right. I have no problem w/ free-choice.
Besides, if we're gonna blame "the unvaccinated" for the lack of a Stones Tour, that's fine w/ me....as long as we give a big heaping slice of Blame Pie to the Wuhan Lab for starting this whole mess in the first place...or at least to the gnarly, unsanitary conditions of funky Chinese wet-markets, if you prefer that theory...
we'd have no "unvaccinated" if it wasn't for the Lab/Market/Whatever Theory You Like Better where all this crap began.....
Blame Pie! Because everybody likes blaming others.....and pie!
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GlimmerGirl24Quote
stickyfingers101
I also promise you there are plenty of insurance companies that would underwrite a Stones Tour if they went out tomorrow....guaranteed.
somebody underwrote Clapton and Bruce and Gn'R....there is money to be made and the insurance companies know it.
it's the Stones that are waiting...and that is their right. I have no problem w/ free-choice.
Besides, if we're gonna blame "the unvaccinated" for the lack of a Stones Tour, that's fine w/ me....as long as we give a big heaping slice of Blame Pie to the Wuhan Lab for starting this whole mess in the first place...or at least to the gnarly, unsanitary conditions of funky Chinese wet-markets, if you prefer that theory...
we'd have no "unvaccinated" if it wasn't for the Lab/Market/Whatever Theory You Like Better where all this crap began.....
Blame Pie! Because everybody likes blaming others.....and pie!
The issue isn't that insurance companies aren't trampling each other to insure tours, the issue is the promoters have changed the terms for the postponed 2020 tours. GnR is one of the bands that have agreed to a new contract which passes more of the financial risk onto the artist. Part of the new terms that Live Nation is insisting upon is:
"Force Majeure: If the artist’s performance is canceled due to an event of force majeure – including a pandemic similar to Covid-19 – the promoter will not pay the artist its fee. The artist is responsible for obtaining any cancellation insurance for its performance."
Live Nation has also cut guarantees by 20%. Additional new terms: if a venue cannot be used at full capacity because of venue/government orders, Live Nation can cancel the concert and the artist must return any money Live Nation has paid. In the past if a show was canceled for slow sales, the artist received 100% of the guarantee, now it's 25%. If the artist cancels a concert in breach of the contract, the artist owes Live Nation two times its fee.
[variety.com]
Over at AEG, they have also renegotiated and the changes include: “all deals in 2020 will be renegotiated regardless if they went on sale before the start of the crisis,” and that where a show was less than 90% sold out the guaranteed artist fee will be reduced “25% to 50% of original all-in guarantee based on sales before postponement.”
[www.musicradar.com]
Not only are bands paying the costs for insurance, they are now taking at least a 20% guarantee cut and in certain instances, the guarantee may drop to somewhere between zero and 25%. A band that experiences virus cancellations or slow ticket sales, could have their profit margin cut drastically.
While the Stones may have more negotiating power than other bands, AEG still may be passing on more of the financial risk than the Stones are willing to agree to, especially considering many of the concerts are in states with less than impressive vaccination rates.
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crholmstromQuote
GlimmerGirl24Quote
stickyfingers101
I also promise you there are plenty of insurance companies that would underwrite a Stones Tour if they went out tomorrow....guaranteed.
somebody underwrote Clapton and Bruce and Gn'R....there is money to be made and the insurance companies know it.
it's the Stones that are waiting...and that is their right. I have no problem w/ free-choice.
Besides, if we're gonna blame "the unvaccinated" for the lack of a Stones Tour, that's fine w/ me....as long as we give a big heaping slice of Blame Pie to the Wuhan Lab for starting this whole mess in the first place...or at least to the gnarly, unsanitary conditions of funky Chinese wet-markets, if you prefer that theory...
we'd have no "unvaccinated" if it wasn't for the Lab/Market/Whatever Theory You Like Better where all this crap began.....
Blame Pie! Because everybody likes blaming others.....and pie!
The issue isn't that insurance companies aren't trampling each other to insure tours, the issue is the promoters have changed the terms for the postponed 2020 tours. GnR is one of the bands that have agreed to a new contract which passes more of the financial risk onto the artist. Part of the new terms that Live Nation is insisting upon is:
"Force Majeure: If the artist’s performance is canceled due to an event of force majeure – including a pandemic similar to Covid-19 – the promoter will not pay the artist its fee. The artist is responsible for obtaining any cancellation insurance for its performance."
Live Nation has also cut guarantees by 20%. Additional new terms: if a venue cannot be used at full capacity because of venue/government orders, Live Nation can cancel the concert and the artist must return any money Live Nation has paid. In the past if a show was canceled for slow sales, the artist received 100% of the guarantee, now it's 25%. If the artist cancels a concert in breach of the contract, the artist owes Live Nation two times its fee.
[variety.com]
Over at AEG, they have also renegotiated and the changes include: “all deals in 2020 will be renegotiated regardless if they went on sale before the start of the crisis,” and that where a show was less than 90% sold out the guaranteed artist fee will be reduced “25% to 50% of original all-in guarantee based on sales before postponement.”
[www.musicradar.com]
Not only are bands paying the costs for insurance, they are now taking at least a 20% guarantee cut and in certain instances, the guarantee may drop to somewhere between zero and 25%. A band that experiences virus cancellations or slow ticket sales, could have their profit margin cut drastically.
While the Stones may have more negotiating power than other bands, AEG still may be passing on more of the financial risk than the Stones are willing to agree to, especially considering many of the concerts are in states with less than impressive vaccination rates.
Black Crowes aren't selling well. They are selling lawn tickets for $20 now.
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Woz
I think the Stones should tour. If they are all vaccinated and manage their backstage scene (as they always do) I don't see any risk to the band members. As to the audience? If you don't get vaccinated and you get sick that's on you. At this point there is a solution and if you are not willing to be part of it, well that's your problem. I'm seeing as much music as possible this summer and fall.
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GlimmerGirl24Quote
stickyfingers101
I also promise you there are plenty of insurance companies that would underwrite a Stones Tour if they went out tomorrow....guaranteed.
somebody underwrote Clapton and Bruce and Gn'R....there is money to be made and the insurance companies know it.
it's the Stones that are waiting...and that is their right. I have no problem w/ free-choice.
Besides, if we're gonna blame "the unvaccinated" for the lack of a Stones Tour, that's fine w/ me....as long as we give a big heaping slice of Blame Pie to the Wuhan Lab for starting this whole mess in the first place...or at least to the gnarly, unsanitary conditions of funky Chinese wet-markets, if you prefer that theory...
we'd have no "unvaccinated" if it wasn't for the Lab/Market/Whatever Theory You Like Better where all this crap began.....
Blame Pie! Because everybody likes blaming others.....and pie!
The issue isn't that insurance companies aren't trampling each other to insure tours, the issue is the promoters have changed the terms for the postponed 2020 tours. GnR is one of the bands that have agreed to a new contract which passes more of the financial risk onto the artist. Part of the new terms that Live Nation is insisting upon is:
"Force Majeure: If the artist’s performance is canceled due to an event of force majeure – including a pandemic similar to Covid-19 – the promoter will not pay the artist its fee. The artist is responsible for obtaining any cancellation insurance for its performance."
Live Nation has also cut guarantees by 20%. Additional new terms: if a venue cannot be used at full capacity because of venue/government orders, Live Nation can cancel the concert and the artist must return any money Live Nation has paid. In the past if a show was canceled for slow sales, the artist received 100% of the guarantee, now it's 25%. If the artist cancels a concert in breach of the contract, the artist owes Live Nation two times its fee.
[variety.com]
Over at AEG, they have also renegotiated and the changes include: “all deals in 2020 will be renegotiated regardless if they went on sale before the start of the crisis,” and that where a show was less than 90% sold out the guaranteed artist fee will be reduced “25% to 50% of original all-in guarantee based on sales before postponement.”
[www.musicradar.com]
Not only are bands paying the costs for insurance, they are now taking at least a 20% guarantee cut and in certain instances, the guarantee may drop to somewhere between zero and 25%. A band that experiences virus cancellations or slow ticket sales, could have their profit margin cut drastically.
While the Stones may have more negotiating power than other bands, AEG still may be passing on more of the financial risk than the Stones are willing to agree to, especially considering many of the concerts are in states with less than impressive vaccination rates.
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Adams
In the autumn we might expect covid surges not touring.
I don't think it is somebody's business if they get vaccinated or not. If people don't get vaccinated they help the virus to mutate, they help the virus to spread, they also block hospitals from normal operations.
Someone who thinks otherwise is rather shortsighted to put it mildly.
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spikenyc
I was going to post this in the Covid thread but probably has more relevance in this thread presently.
3 friends of mine that attended the Peach Festival last weekend in Scranton PA have tested positive.
They were all vaccinated and are experiencing mild to moderate symptoms.
They were no masks or covid protocols in place for the weekend.
We still need to be vigilant.
I have a feeling some of these upcoming tours and Fests might be postponed again.
Not holding my breath for a 2021 Stones tour.
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spikenyc
I was going to post this in the Covid thread but probably has more relevance in this thread presently.
3 friends of mine that attended the Peach Festival last weekend in Scranton PA have tested positive.
They were all vaccinated and are experiencing mild to moderate symptoms.
They were no masks or covid protocols in place for the weekend.
We still need to be vigilant.
I have a feeling some of these upcoming tours and Fests might be postponed again.
Not holding my breath for a 2021 Stones tour.
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crholmstrom
Black Crowes aren't selling well. They are selling lawn tickets for $20 now.
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AdamsQuote
spikenyc
I was going to post this in the Covid thread but probably has more relevance in this thread presently.
3 friends of mine that attended the Peach Festival last weekend in Scranton PA have tested positive.
They were all vaccinated and are experiencing mild to moderate symptoms.
They were no masks or covid protocols in place for the weekend.
We still need to be vigilant.
I have a feeling some of these upcoming tours and Fests might be postponed again.
Not holding my breath for a 2021 Stones tour.
That's why all events should be for vaccinated only at the moment. At least current knowledge is that there is a less chance of a spread between people who are fully vaccinated. Screw people who demonstrate for what they think is freedom.
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bleedingmanQuote
AdamsQuote
spikenyc
I was going to post this in the Covid thread but probably has more relevance in this thread presently.
3 friends of mine that attended the Peach Festival last weekend in Scranton PA have tested positive.
They were all vaccinated and are experiencing mild to moderate symptoms.
They were no masks or covid protocols in place for the weekend.
We still need to be vigilant.
I have a feeling some of these upcoming tours and Fests might be postponed again.
Not holding my breath for a 2021 Stones tour.
That's why all events should be for vaccinated only at the moment. At least current knowledge is that there is a less chance of a spread between people who are fully vaccinated. Screw people who demonstrate for what they think is freedom.
Covid is transmissible between fully vaccinated people. It's not just the unvaccinated whom you should be ready to burn at the stake. Think on that.
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Woz
Maybe all of this will force the Stones back into arenas. they would sell out at high ticket prices and their demographic is the most vaccinated there is. That kind of reduces risk all around......
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daspyknowsQuote
Adams
In the autumn we might expect covid surges not touring.
I don't think it is somebody's business if they get vaccinated or not. If people don't get vaccinated they help the virus to mutate, they help the virus to spread, they also block hospitals from normal operations.
Someone who thinks otherwise is rather shortsighted to put it mildly.
Stated very well. I would add selfish to shortsighted too.
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spikenyc
3 friends of mine that attended the Peach Festival last weekend in Scranton PA have tested positive. They were all vaccinated and are experiencing mild to moderate symptoms.
They were no masks or covid protocols in place for the weekend.
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Woz
I think the Stones should tour. If they are all vaccinated and manage their backstage scene (as they always do) I don't see any risk to the band members. As to the audience? If you don't get vaccinated and you get sick that's on you. At this point there is a solution and if you are not willing to be part of it, well that's your problem. I'm seeing as much music as possible this summer and fall.
Quote
spikenyc
I was going to post this in the Covid thread but probably has more relevance in this thread presently.
3 friends of mine that attended the Peach Festival last weekend in Scranton PA have tested positive.
They were all vaccinated and are experiencing mild to moderate symptoms.
They were no masks or covid protocols in place for the weekend.
We still need to be vigilant.
I have a feeling some of these upcoming tours and Fests might be postponed again.
Not holding my breath for a 2021 Stones tour.
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TheBluesHadaBaby
For those who hide in a shack in the woods like a unibomber and never interact with another soul, fine, don't get vaxxed if you don't want to, nobody gives a f**k.
Everybody else, though, you're part of human society, like it or not. A global pandemic is killing millions, science has come up with a way to stop it, and if you refuse to help, then you are one of the people enabling the virus to continue infecting people, to keep mutating, and to continue killing people.
One's right to freely swing one's fists around ends where the next person's nose begins, is how I've always understood personal freedom. We all have responsibilities to help look out for each other's health and safety. But vaccination refuseniks are totally rejecting that paradigm.
If in August the U.S. had 70%, 75%+ of the adult population vaccinated, something physically very possible if people cooperated, then Covid Delta wouldn't stand a chance and we'd not be looking any possibilities of broad outbreaks this fall.
We'd also have a Rolling Stones North American tour starting late August or early September.
But those vax rates clearly aren't happening anytime soon, if ever, in America's Red States, due to obstinance and defiance that serve no real purpose and are causing only harm to the whole country, and beyond.
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TheBluesHadaBaby
For those who hide in a shack in the woods like a unibomber and never interact with another soul, fine, don't get vaxxed if you don't want to, nobody gives a f**k.
Everybody else, though, you're part of human society, like it or not. A global pandemic is killing millions, science has come up with a way to stop it, and if you refuse to help, then you are one of the people enabling the virus to continue infecting people, to keep mutating, and to continue killing people.
One's right to freely swing one's fists around ends where the next person's nose begins, is how I've always understood personal freedom. We all have responsibilities to help look out for each other's health and safety. But vaccination refuseniks are totally rejecting that paradigm.
If in August the U.S. had 70%, 75%+ of the adult population vaccinated, something physically very possible if people cooperated, then Covid Delta wouldn't stand a chance and we'd not be looking any possibilities of broad outbreaks this fall.
We'd also have a Rolling Stones North American tour starting late August or early September.
But those vax rates clearly aren't happening anytime soon, if ever, in America's Red States, due to obstinance and defiance that serve no real purpose and are causing only harm to the whole country, and beyond.