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daspyknows

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stickyfingers101

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VoodooLounge13
With governments (Israel) indicating that the Pfizer vax isn't all that effective against the Delta variant, and states already considering re-instituting mask wearing mandates, it's hard to imagine things being under control by the Fall here in the US.

it's 65% effective in preventing Covid altogether....and 93% effective against Severe Covid....those are excellent odds...

[www.cnn.com]

the entire point all along was to "flatten the curve"...93% effectiveness against severe Covid does that very effectively.....

not everything can be prevented...the point is to "flatten the curve" so the hospitals can effectively deal with the severe cases....."not severe Covid" means you'll get through it on your own....

"Flatten the Curve"....this is the entire point of the Vax...it was never to give 100% security-prevention, which is impossible and a fool's errand.

However, since this thread is about the tour: if the Stones don't want to tour, I get that....they are old and have health concerns....their chances of "severe Covid" are elevated even with the Vax.

makes sense....but, if they are waiting for the world to get to 100% vax-rates, or for the Vax to be 100% effective in preventing all variants forever...well, then there will never be another Stones tour....

Covid is here to stay...the Vax "flattens the curve"....tours (and life) will have to take place within that context.

If vaccination rates are 70%, 80% or 90% this applies. If vaccination rates are 40% all you have to look at is Springfield Missouri where they are out of ventilators and put out an emergency request for respiratory therapists. The next 60 to 90 days will be telling in the US in regards to virus transmission. Is a Stones tour advisable during that time frame? Ask the insurance company underwriting the tour.

My point was that the vaccine flattens the curve.

You seem to be discussing vaccine-hesitancy and/or Vax Rates and/or the unvaccinated

I wasn't discussing that.

I was discussing the efficacy of the vaccine against the Delta Variant...it is highly effective.

As for the Tour and its underwriters: I don't know what Vax-Rate they want/need as their benchmark...nor do I know their benchmark for the efficacy-rate of the Vax vs. any of the variants

but, I do know if they put "Must Be 100%" for either, there will never be another tour.

there's a reason Insurance Companies exist...it's called "risk"...Covid is one of those risks that now needs to be taken into consideration for tours....it's called "life"

I also promise you there are plenty of insurance companies that would underwrite a Stones Tour if they went out tomorrow....guaranteed.

somebody underwrote Clapton and Bruce and Gn'R....there is money to be made and the insurance companies know it.

it's the Stones that are waiting...and that is their right. I have no problem w/ free-choice.

Besides, if we're gonna blame "the unvaccinated" for the lack of a Stones Tour, that's fine w/ me....as long as we give a big heaping slice of Blame Pie to the Wuhan Lab for starting this whole mess in the first place...or at least to the gnarly, unsanitary conditions of funky Chinese wet-markets, if you prefer that theory...

we'd have no "unvaccinated" if it wasn't for the Lab/Market/Whatever Theory You Like Better where all this crap began.....

Blame Pie! Because everybody likes blaming others.....and pie!

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daspyknows

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kovach

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daspyknows

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kovach
I'm sure insurance actuaries are running numbers and will ultimately call the shots here (no pun intended).

I haven't been following the hospitalization or death #'s here in the states recently though I thought I saw a report suggesting with the vaccine and immunity from having the bug they're about equal with the flu at this point.

If that's the case, nobody's cancelled tours over the seasonal flu.

Just sayin...

Though some mutant variant I suppose could pop up at any point and wreak havoc around the world again. But as the saying goes, you go to war with the army you have, not the one you wish you had. Today the army of data makes it look possible; come Labor Day, we can only wish we knew...

Again, yes I know this wasn't the flu. But I think the best hope is we can turn it into one. Only time will tell...

Where did you see that? In Missouri they are sending out emergency requests for respiratory therapists. People don't die from the seasonal flu in the summer either. I do agree, the insurance companies are one of the key constituents deciding on the tour.

I think it was one of those articles you refused to read because it wasn't from a far left media company as defined by the "Allsides Media Bias Chart" (even though the group that runs this site advocates for legalizing victimless 'crimes' like smoking marijuana and such so I'm not sure they can really be declared to be 'far right' either). Here it is again if you want to read it; however it appears this was written before the delta variant so may be a moot point now:

Daily U.S. COVID-19 Deaths are Approaching the Influenza Average

Oh, so ne of those sources that just makes crap up. Advocating marijuana legalization does not mean a source is left of center. John Boehner and Matt Gaetz are strong advocates and calling them liberal is like calling David Duke an advocate of diversity.

Why don't you just read it before refuting it? I'm a numbers guy, maybe it's all wrong. Convince me.

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kovach

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daspyknows

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kovach

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daspyknows

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kovach
I'm sure insurance actuaries are running numbers and will ultimately call the shots here (no pun intended).

I haven't been following the hospitalization or death #'s here in the states recently though I thought I saw a report suggesting with the vaccine and immunity from having the bug they're about equal with the flu at this point.

If that's the case, nobody's cancelled tours over the seasonal flu.

Just sayin...

Though some mutant variant I suppose could pop up at any point and wreak havoc around the world again. But as the saying goes, you go to war with the army you have, not the one you wish you had. Today the army of data makes it look possible; come Labor Day, we can only wish we knew...

Again, yes I know this wasn't the flu. But I think the best hope is we can turn it into one. Only time will tell...

Where did you see that? In Missouri they are sending out emergency requests for respiratory therapists. People don't die from the seasonal flu in the summer either. I do agree, the insurance companies are one of the key constituents deciding on the tour.

I think it was one of those articles you refused to read because it wasn't from a far left media company as defined by the "Allsides Media Bias Chart" (even though the group that runs this site advocates for legalizing victimless 'crimes' like smoking marijuana and such so I'm not sure they can really be declared to be 'far right' either). Here it is again if you want to read it; however it appears this was written before the delta variant so may be a moot point now:

Daily U.S. COVID-19 Deaths are Approaching the Influenza Average

Oh, so ne of those sources that just makes crap up. Advocating marijuana legalization does not mean a source is left of center. John Boehner and Matt Gaetz are strong advocates and calling them liberal is like calling David Duke an advocate of diversity.

Why don't you just read it before refuting it? I'm a numbers guy, maybe it's all wrong. Convince me.

Tell me how many people are dying of the seasonal flu in July. People are dying of Covid in July albeit a much lower number. In January Covid deaths outnumbered influenza deaths. Can we at least agree on that?

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daspyknows

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kovach

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daspyknows

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kovach

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daspyknows

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kovach
I'm sure insurance actuaries are running numbers and will ultimately call the shots here (no pun intended).

I haven't been following the hospitalization or death #'s here in the states recently though I thought I saw a report suggesting with the vaccine and immunity from having the bug they're about equal with the flu at this point.

If that's the case, nobody's cancelled tours over the seasonal flu.

Just sayin...

Though some mutant variant I suppose could pop up at any point and wreak havoc around the world again. But as the saying goes, you go to war with the army you have, not the one you wish you had. Today the army of data makes it look possible; come Labor Day, we can only wish we knew...

Again, yes I know this wasn't the flu. But I think the best hope is we can turn it into one. Only time will tell...

Where did you see that? In Missouri they are sending out emergency requests for respiratory therapists. People don't die from the seasonal flu in the summer either. I do agree, the insurance companies are one of the key constituents deciding on the tour.

I think it was one of those articles you refused to read because it wasn't from a far left media company as defined by the "Allsides Media Bias Chart" (even though the group that runs this site advocates for legalizing victimless 'crimes' like smoking marijuana and such so I'm not sure they can really be declared to be 'far right' either). Here it is again if you want to read it; however it appears this was written before the delta variant so may be a moot point now:

Daily U.S. COVID-19 Deaths are Approaching the Influenza Average

Oh, so ne of those sources that just makes crap up. Advocating marijuana legalization does not mean a source is left of center. John Boehner and Matt Gaetz are strong advocates and calling them liberal is like calling David Duke an advocate of diversity.

Why don't you just read it before refuting it? I'm a numbers guy, maybe it's all wrong. Convince me.

Tell me how many people are dying of the seasonal flu in July. People are dying of Covid in July albeit a much lower number. In January Covid deaths outnumbered influenza deaths. Can we at least agree on that?

OK, without doing a bunch of research of flu spikes around the world, I'll give you that one.

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kovach

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daspyknows

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kovach
I'm sure insurance actuaries are running numbers and will ultimately call the shots here (no pun intended).

I haven't been following the hospitalization or death #'s here in the states recently though I thought I saw a report suggesting with the vaccine and immunity from having the bug they're about equal with the flu at this point.

If that's the case, nobody's cancelled tours over the seasonal flu.

Just sayin...

Though some mutant variant I suppose could pop up at any point and wreak havoc around the world again. But as the saying goes, you go to war with the army you have, not the one you wish you had. Today the army of data makes it look possible; come Labor Day, we can only wish we knew...

Again, yes I know this wasn't the flu. But I think the best hope is we can turn it into one. Only time will tell...

Where did you see that? In Missouri they are sending out emergency requests for respiratory therapists. People don't die from the seasonal flu in the summer either. I do agree, the insurance companies are one of the key constituents deciding on the tour.

I think it was one of those articles you refused to read because it wasn't from a far left media company as defined by the "Allsides Media Bias Chart" (even though the group that runs this site advocates for legalizing victimless 'crimes' like smoking marijuana and such so I'm not sure they can really be declared to be 'far right' either). Here it is again if you want to read it; however it appears this was written before the delta variant so may be a moot point now:

Daily U.S. COVID-19 Deaths are Approaching the Influenza Average

Published June 16th so it's already stale. Delta. It is actually considered in the article:

"...barring an outbreak of a new highly transmissible and vaccine-resistant COVID-19 virus variant, normality is well in sight if not already here"

Well, here we are with the highly transmissible and (somewhat at least) vaccine resistant variant. Delta changes the game, to what extent we wait and see. And there will be more variants.

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JN99

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kovach

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daspyknows

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kovach
I'm sure insurance actuaries are running numbers and will ultimately call the shots here (no pun intended).

I haven't been following the hospitalization or death #'s here in the states recently though I thought I saw a report suggesting with the vaccine and immunity from having the bug they're about equal with the flu at this point.

If that's the case, nobody's cancelled tours over the seasonal flu.

Just sayin...

Though some mutant variant I suppose could pop up at any point and wreak havoc around the world again. But as the saying goes, you go to war with the army you have, not the one you wish you had. Today the army of data makes it look possible; come Labor Day, we can only wish we knew...

Again, yes I know this wasn't the flu. But I think the best hope is we can turn it into one. Only time will tell...

Where did you see that? In Missouri they are sending out emergency requests for respiratory therapists. People don't die from the seasonal flu in the summer either. I do agree, the insurance companies are one of the key constituents deciding on the tour.

I think it was one of those articles you refused to read because it wasn't from a far left media company as defined by the "Allsides Media Bias Chart" (even though the group that runs this site advocates for legalizing victimless 'crimes' like smoking marijuana and such so I'm not sure they can really be declared to be 'far right' either). Here it is again if you want to read it; however it appears this was written before the delta variant so may be a moot point now:

Daily U.S. COVID-19 Deaths are Approaching the Influenza Average

Published June 16th so it's already stale. Delta. It is actually considered in the article:

"...barring an outbreak of a new highly transmissible and vaccine-resistant COVID-19 virus variant, normality is well in sight if not already here"

Well, here we are with the highly transmissible and (somewhat at least) vaccine resistant variant. Delta changes the game, to what extent we wait and see. And there will be more variants.

Agree, as I noted above "however it appears this was written before the delta variant so may be a moot point now", though all variants are somewhat resistant to all vaccines, and studies are ongoing now as to how resistant Delta is, but as of right now the CDC is stating fully vaccinated do not need boosters and have good immunity. But only time will tell...

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stickyfingers101

I also promise you there are plenty of insurance companies that would underwrite a Stones Tour if they went out tomorrow....guaranteed.

somebody underwrote Clapton and Bruce and Gn'R....there is money to be made and the insurance companies know it.

it's the Stones that are waiting...and that is their right. I have no problem w/ free-choice.

Besides, if we're gonna blame "the unvaccinated" for the lack of a Stones Tour, that's fine w/ me....as long as we give a big heaping slice of Blame Pie to the Wuhan Lab for starting this whole mess in the first place...or at least to the gnarly, unsanitary conditions of funky Chinese wet-markets, if you prefer that theory...

we'd have no "unvaccinated" if it wasn't for the Lab/Market/Whatever Theory You Like Better where all this crap began.....

Blame Pie! Because everybody likes blaming others.....and pie!

The issue isn't that insurance companies aren't trampling each other to insure tours, the issue is the promoters have changed the terms for the postponed 2020 tours. GnR is one of the bands that have agreed to a new contract which passes more of the financial risk onto the artist. Part of the new terms that Live Nation is insisting upon is:

"Force Majeure: If the artist’s performance is canceled due to an event of force majeure – including a pandemic similar to Covid-19 – the promoter will not pay the artist its fee. The artist is responsible for obtaining any cancellation insurance for its performance."

Live Nation has also cut guarantees by 20%. Additional new terms: if a venue cannot be used at full capacity because of venue/government orders, Live Nation can cancel the concert and the artist must return any money Live Nation has paid. In the past if a show was canceled for slow sales, the artist received 100% of the guarantee, now it's 25%. If the artist cancels a concert in breach of the contract, the artist owes Live Nation two times its fee.

[variety.com]

Over at AEG, they have also renegotiated and the changes include: “all deals in 2020 will be renegotiated regardless if they went on sale before the start of the crisis,” and that where a show was less than 90% sold out the guaranteed artist fee will be reduced “25% to 50% of original all-in guarantee based on sales before postponement.”

[www.musicradar.com]

Not only are bands paying the costs for insurance, they are now taking at least a 20% guarantee cut and in certain instances, the guarantee may drop to somewhere between zero and 25%. A band that experiences virus cancellations or slow ticket sales, could have their profit margin cut drastically.

While the Stones may have more negotiating power than other bands, AEG still may be passing on more of the financial risk than the Stones are willing to agree to, especially considering many of the concerts are in states with less than impressive vaccination rates.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021-07-09 22:21 by GlimmerGirl24.

Bit of a Mexican standoff going on here.

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GlimmerGirl24

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stickyfingers101

I also promise you there are plenty of insurance companies that would underwrite a Stones Tour if they went out tomorrow....guaranteed.

somebody underwrote Clapton and Bruce and Gn'R....there is money to be made and the insurance companies know it.

it's the Stones that are waiting...and that is their right. I have no problem w/ free-choice.

Besides, if we're gonna blame "the unvaccinated" for the lack of a Stones Tour, that's fine w/ me....as long as we give a big heaping slice of Blame Pie to the Wuhan Lab for starting this whole mess in the first place...or at least to the gnarly, unsanitary conditions of funky Chinese wet-markets, if you prefer that theory...

we'd have no "unvaccinated" if it wasn't for the Lab/Market/Whatever Theory You Like Better where all this crap began.....

Blame Pie! Because everybody likes blaming others.....and pie!

The issue isn't that insurance companies aren't trampling each other to insure tours, the issue is the promoters have changed the terms for the postponed 2020 tours. GnR is one of the bands that have agreed to a new contract which passes more of the financial risk onto the artist. Part of the new terms that Live Nation is insisting upon is:

"Force Majeure: If the artist’s performance is canceled due to an event of force majeure – including a pandemic similar to Covid-19 – the promoter will not pay the artist its fee. The artist is responsible for obtaining any cancellation insurance for its performance."

Live Nation has also cut guarantees by 20%. Additional new terms: if a venue cannot be used at full capacity because of venue/government orders, Live Nation can cancel the concert and the artist must return any money Live Nation has paid. In the past if a show was canceled for slow sales, the artist received 100% of the guarantee, now it's 25%. If the artist cancels a concert in breach of the contract, the artist owes Live Nation two times its fee.

[variety.com]

Over at AEG, they have also renegotiated and the changes include: “all deals in 2020 will be renegotiated regardless if they went on sale before the start of the crisis,” and that where a show was less than 90% sold out the guaranteed artist fee will be reduced “25% to 50% of original all-in guarantee based on sales before postponement.”

[www.musicradar.com]

Not only are bands paying the costs for insurance, they are now taking at least a 20% guarantee cut and in certain instances, the guarantee may drop to somewhere between zero and 25%. A band that experiences virus cancellations or slow ticket sales, could have their profit margin cut drastically.

While the Stones may have more negotiating power than other bands, AEG still may be passing on more of the financial risk than the Stones are willing to agree to, especially considering many of the concerts are in states with less than impressive vaccination rates.

Black Crowes aren't selling well. They are selling lawn tickets for $20 now.

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crholmstrom

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GlimmerGirl24

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stickyfingers101

I also promise you there are plenty of insurance companies that would underwrite a Stones Tour if they went out tomorrow....guaranteed.

somebody underwrote Clapton and Bruce and Gn'R....there is money to be made and the insurance companies know it.

it's the Stones that are waiting...and that is their right. I have no problem w/ free-choice.

Besides, if we're gonna blame "the unvaccinated" for the lack of a Stones Tour, that's fine w/ me....as long as we give a big heaping slice of Blame Pie to the Wuhan Lab for starting this whole mess in the first place...or at least to the gnarly, unsanitary conditions of funky Chinese wet-markets, if you prefer that theory...

we'd have no "unvaccinated" if it wasn't for the Lab/Market/Whatever Theory You Like Better where all this crap began.....

Blame Pie! Because everybody likes blaming others.....and pie!

The issue isn't that insurance companies aren't trampling each other to insure tours, the issue is the promoters have changed the terms for the postponed 2020 tours. GnR is one of the bands that have agreed to a new contract which passes more of the financial risk onto the artist. Part of the new terms that Live Nation is insisting upon is:

"Force Majeure: If the artist’s performance is canceled due to an event of force majeure – including a pandemic similar to Covid-19 – the promoter will not pay the artist its fee. The artist is responsible for obtaining any cancellation insurance for its performance."

Live Nation has also cut guarantees by 20%. Additional new terms: if a venue cannot be used at full capacity because of venue/government orders, Live Nation can cancel the concert and the artist must return any money Live Nation has paid. In the past if a show was canceled for slow sales, the artist received 100% of the guarantee, now it's 25%. If the artist cancels a concert in breach of the contract, the artist owes Live Nation two times its fee.

[variety.com]

Over at AEG, they have also renegotiated and the changes include: “all deals in 2020 will be renegotiated regardless if they went on sale before the start of the crisis,” and that where a show was less than 90% sold out the guaranteed artist fee will be reduced “25% to 50% of original all-in guarantee based on sales before postponement.”

[www.musicradar.com]

Not only are bands paying the costs for insurance, they are now taking at least a 20% guarantee cut and in certain instances, the guarantee may drop to somewhere between zero and 25%. A band that experiences virus cancellations or slow ticket sales, could have their profit margin cut drastically.

While the Stones may have more negotiating power than other bands, AEG still may be passing on more of the financial risk than the Stones are willing to agree to, especially considering many of the concerts are in states with less than impressive vaccination rates.

Black Crowes aren't selling well. They are selling lawn tickets for $20 now.

Not sure that's an apt comparison...

Take a look at some of the bigger acts in bigger venues like Guns N Roses. Plus how many tickets are already sold and not refunded for the Rolling Stones?

I think the Stones should tour. If they are all vaccinated and manage their backstage scene (as they always do) I don't see any risk to the band members. As to the audience? If you don't get vaccinated and you get sick that's on you. At this point there is a solution and if you are not willing to be part of it, well that's your problem. I'm seeing as much music as possible this summer and fall.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021-07-09 23:23 by Woz.

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Woz
I think the Stones should tour. If they are all vaccinated and manage their backstage scene (as they always do) I don't see any risk to the band members. As to the audience? If you don't get vaccinated and you get sick that's on you. At this point there is a solution and if you are not willing to be part of it, well that's your problem. I'm seeing as much music as possible this summer and fall.

My guess is, prior to the spread of the Delta variant, this was exactly the plan. Delta has changed the game and delayed, for now at least, plans and any delay puts the whole thing in doubt now.

In the autumn we might expect covid surges not touring.
I don't think it is somebody's business if they get vaccinated or not. If people don't get vaccinated they help the virus to mutate, they help the virus to spread, they also block hospitals from normal operations.
Someone who thinks otherwise is rather shortsighted to put it mildly.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021-07-09 23:57 by Adams.

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GlimmerGirl24

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stickyfingers101

I also promise you there are plenty of insurance companies that would underwrite a Stones Tour if they went out tomorrow....guaranteed.

somebody underwrote Clapton and Bruce and Gn'R....there is money to be made and the insurance companies know it.

it's the Stones that are waiting...and that is their right. I have no problem w/ free-choice.

Besides, if we're gonna blame "the unvaccinated" for the lack of a Stones Tour, that's fine w/ me....as long as we give a big heaping slice of Blame Pie to the Wuhan Lab for starting this whole mess in the first place...or at least to the gnarly, unsanitary conditions of funky Chinese wet-markets, if you prefer that theory...

we'd have no "unvaccinated" if it wasn't for the Lab/Market/Whatever Theory You Like Better where all this crap began.....

Blame Pie! Because everybody likes blaming others.....and pie!

The issue isn't that insurance companies aren't trampling each other to insure tours, the issue is the promoters have changed the terms for the postponed 2020 tours. GnR is one of the bands that have agreed to a new contract which passes more of the financial risk onto the artist. Part of the new terms that Live Nation is insisting upon is:

"Force Majeure: If the artist’s performance is canceled due to an event of force majeure – including a pandemic similar to Covid-19 – the promoter will not pay the artist its fee. The artist is responsible for obtaining any cancellation insurance for its performance."

Live Nation has also cut guarantees by 20%. Additional new terms: if a venue cannot be used at full capacity because of venue/government orders, Live Nation can cancel the concert and the artist must return any money Live Nation has paid. In the past if a show was canceled for slow sales, the artist received 100% of the guarantee, now it's 25%. If the artist cancels a concert in breach of the contract, the artist owes Live Nation two times its fee.

[variety.com]

Over at AEG, they have also renegotiated and the changes include: “all deals in 2020 will be renegotiated regardless if they went on sale before the start of the crisis,” and that where a show was less than 90% sold out the guaranteed artist fee will be reduced “25% to 50% of original all-in guarantee based on sales before postponement.”

[www.musicradar.com]

Not only are bands paying the costs for insurance, they are now taking at least a 20% guarantee cut and in certain instances, the guarantee may drop to somewhere between zero and 25%. A band that experiences virus cancellations or slow ticket sales, could have their profit margin cut drastically.

While the Stones may have more negotiating power than other bands, AEG still may be passing on more of the financial risk than the Stones are willing to agree to, especially considering many of the concerts are in states with less than impressive vaccination rates.

In other words, he is correct . . . there is no inability to get insurance, that has nothing to do with the Stones not deciding what to do, as you stated was the current state of their thinking. Probably accurately since your connection to people with actual knowledge is well known. if and when they decide to resume touring, they will do so..

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Adams
In the autumn we might expect covid surges not touring.
I don't think it is somebody's business if they get vaccinated or not. If people don't get vaccinated they help the virus to mutate, they help the virus to spread, they also block hospitals from normal operations.
Someone who thinks otherwise is rather shortsighted to put it mildly.

Stated very well. I would add selfish to shortsighted too.

Maybe all of this will force the Stones back into arenas. they would sell out at high ticket prices and their demographic is the most vaccinated there is. That kind of reduces risk all around......

I was going to post this in the Covid thread but probably has more relevance in this thread presently.

3 friends of mine that attended the Peach Festival last weekend in Scranton PA have tested positive.
They were all vaccinated and are experiencing mild to moderate symptoms.
They were no masks or covid protocols in place for the weekend.

We still need to be vigilant.
I have a feeling some of these upcoming tours and Fests might be postponed again.
Not holding my breath for a 2021 Stones tour.

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spikenyc
I was going to post this in the Covid thread but probably has more relevance in this thread presently.

3 friends of mine that attended the Peach Festival last weekend in Scranton PA have tested positive.
They were all vaccinated and are experiencing mild to moderate symptoms.
They were no masks or covid protocols in place for the weekend.

We still need to be vigilant.
I have a feeling some of these upcoming tours and Fests might be postponed again.
Not holding my breath for a 2021 Stones tour.

That's why all events should be for vaccinated only at the moment. At least current knowledge is that there is a less chance of a spread between people who are fully vaccinated. Screw people who demonstrate for what they think is freedom.

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spikenyc
I was going to post this in the Covid thread but probably has more relevance in this thread presently.

3 friends of mine that attended the Peach Festival last weekend in Scranton PA have tested positive.
They were all vaccinated and are experiencing mild to moderate symptoms.
They were no masks or covid protocols in place for the weekend.

We still need to be vigilant.
I have a feeling some of these upcoming tours and Fests might be postponed again.
Not holding my breath for a 2021 Stones tour.

That's unfortunate about your friends catching COVID-19, glad they seem to be doing OK based on your post. I know Peach Festival was one of the first really big events back.

I have all smaller scale shows remaining for the year, so I'm not as concerned about them being postponed or substantial risk per se.

The Stones was the only big event that I expected to happen this year based on them having booked dates already.

That being said, nearly every largely scale band that I have tickets to, has postponed to 2022 (Roger Waters and Rage Against the Machine). I suspect the same will happen with the Rolling Stones based on how things are going thus far.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2021-07-10 00:35 by Dougratajczak87.

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crholmstrom
Black Crowes aren't selling well. They are selling lawn tickets for $20 now.

Ticket sales for the Black Crowes have been soft from the outset. Discounts were offered shortly after the initial on-sale in 2019.

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Adams

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spikenyc
I was going to post this in the Covid thread but probably has more relevance in this thread presently.

3 friends of mine that attended the Peach Festival last weekend in Scranton PA have tested positive.
They were all vaccinated and are experiencing mild to moderate symptoms.
They were no masks or covid protocols in place for the weekend.

We still need to be vigilant.
I have a feeling some of these upcoming tours and Fests might be postponed again.
Not holding my breath for a 2021 Stones tour.

That's why all events should be for vaccinated only at the moment. At least current knowledge is that there is a less chance of a spread between people who are fully vaccinated. Screw people who demonstrate for what they think is freedom.

Covid is transmissible between fully vaccinated people. It's not just the unvaccinated whom you should be ready to burn at the stake. Think on that.

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bleedingman

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Adams

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spikenyc
I was going to post this in the Covid thread but probably has more relevance in this thread presently.

3 friends of mine that attended the Peach Festival last weekend in Scranton PA have tested positive.
They were all vaccinated and are experiencing mild to moderate symptoms.
They were no masks or covid protocols in place for the weekend.

We still need to be vigilant.
I have a feeling some of these upcoming tours and Fests might be postponed again.
Not holding my breath for a 2021 Stones tour.

That's why all events should be for vaccinated only at the moment. At least current knowledge is that there is a less chance of a spread between people who are fully vaccinated. Screw people who demonstrate for what they think is freedom.

Covid is transmissible between fully vaccinated people. It's not just the unvaccinated whom you should be ready to burn at the stake. Think on that.

Yep and for those of us with young children or grandchildren that are not yet eligible to get the vaccine, it's also a risk.

For those who hide in a shack in the woods like a unibomber and never interact with another soul, fine, don't get vaxxed if you don't want to, nobody gives a f**k.

Everybody else, though, you're part of human society, like it or not. A global pandemic is killing millions, science has come up with a way to stop it, and if you refuse to help, then you are one of the people enabling the virus to continue infecting people, to keep mutating, and to continue killing people.

One's right to freely swing one's fists around ends where the next person's nose begins, is how I've always understood personal freedom. We all have responsibilities to help look out for each other's health and safety. But vaccination refuseniks are totally rejecting that paradigm.

If in August the U.S. had 70%, 75%+ of the adult population vaccinated, something physically very possible if people cooperated, then Covid Delta wouldn't stand a chance and we'd not be looking any possibilities of broad outbreaks this fall.

We'd also have a Rolling Stones North American tour starting late August or early September.

But those vax rates clearly aren't happening anytime soon, if ever, in America's Red States, due to obstinance and defiance that serve no real purpose and are causing only harm to the whole country, and beyond.

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Woz
Maybe all of this will force the Stones back into arenas. they would sell out at high ticket prices and their demographic is the most vaccinated there is. That kind of reduces risk all around......

A virus that spreads indoors is going to force them indoors? Outdoors is the safest place to be.

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daspyknows

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Adams
In the autumn we might expect covid surges not touring.
I don't think it is somebody's business if they get vaccinated or not. If people don't get vaccinated they help the virus to mutate, they help the virus to spread, they also block hospitals from normal operations.
Someone who thinks otherwise is rather shortsighted to put it mildly.

Stated very well. I would add selfish to shortsighted too.

sure...I'd add that word too...not as an insult, though.

Maybe you disagree, but IMO, people 100% have the right to be "selfish" about what they put in their body....or what they don't..

it's not against the law to refuse the Vax...so, it doesn't matter what the consequences are OR if it is a "shortsighted" decision....it's a FREE choice made by a FREE individual in a FREE society....

Go Freedom!

Besides, if I don't choose what medicines to take (or not)....who should? The gov't?

No thank you.

I got the Vax...After conversations w/ my doctor, I did it for ME and MY family...b/c it was the best decision for ME and MY family....if that flattens the curve or keeps others safe in the process....all the better....but I don't take medicines because OTHER people want me to....

Sorry. No.

My Body, My Choice.

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spikenyc
3 friends of mine that attended the Peach Festival last weekend in Scranton PA have tested positive. They were all vaccinated and are experiencing mild to moderate symptoms.
They were no masks or covid protocols in place for the weekend.

Two questions:

What was the rate of full vaccination for Scranton and its surrounding county? (Pick but specify your measure: full population, age 12+, or age 18+) Get that to 70 or 75%, and infection falls way, way down.

Were the three fully vaccinated? If not, they were still highly vulnerable. Hopefully they were fully vaxxed. If so, yes, you still CAN catch covid, especially Delta which is almost twice as infectious. But none of the 3 should require hospitalization, much less die. Virtually no one is dying of covid in America anymore EXCEPT the unvaccinated. (One vaccinated person did die of it: a lung transplant recipient.) In short, if you're fully vaccinated, you're almost assured of not dying of covid. And "almost assured" is as good as we're ever going to get with such a vicious virus.

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Woz
I think the Stones should tour. If they are all vaccinated and manage their backstage scene (as they always do) I don't see any risk to the band members. As to the audience? If you don't get vaccinated and you get sick that's on you. At this point there is a solution and if you are not willing to be part of it, well that's your problem. I'm seeing as much music as possible this summer and fall.

My thoughts exactly. I am not going to listen to you people who want to call me selfish for feeling this way. I am vaccinated, and pretty much everyone I personally know is also vaccinated. I would go to a Stones concert tonight without a single ounce of fear. I have tickets to 2 DMB shows in August, which will both be over 20,000. Also Kings of Leon in a 20,000 capacity amphitheater, but they'll probably only sell 10K. Baseball games, football games are at full capacity. Guns n Roses are going ahead with their stadium shows. I hope the Stones are just being fashionably late with their announcement, and will press on with a fall tour. I have tickets for Cleveland, and if they reschedule it for October, I will be happy to put on a hoodie and go to the show. I love crisp fall evenings anyway, I would love to see an outdoor show.

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spikenyc
I was going to post this in the Covid thread but probably has more relevance in this thread presently.

3 friends of mine that attended the Peach Festival last weekend in Scranton PA have tested positive.
They were all vaccinated and are experiencing mild to moderate symptoms.
They were no masks or covid protocols in place for the weekend.

We still need to be vigilant.
I have a feeling some of these upcoming tours and Fests might be postponed again.
Not holding my breath for a 2021 Stones tour.

In other words, the vaccine works..."mild to moderate symptoms"

incidentally, a dude died at the Peach Festival....probably from drugs or booze, it looks like.

[www.wnep.com]

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TheBluesHadaBaby
For those who hide in a shack in the woods like a unibomber and never interact with another soul, fine, don't get vaxxed if you don't want to, nobody gives a f**k.

Everybody else, though, you're part of human society, like it or not. A global pandemic is killing millions, science has come up with a way to stop it, and if you refuse to help, then you are one of the people enabling the virus to continue infecting people, to keep mutating, and to continue killing people.

One's right to freely swing one's fists around ends where the next person's nose begins, is how I've always understood personal freedom. We all have responsibilities to help look out for each other's health and safety. But vaccination refuseniks are totally rejecting that paradigm.

If in August the U.S. had 70%, 75%+ of the adult population vaccinated, something physically very possible if people cooperated, then Covid Delta wouldn't stand a chance and we'd not be looking any possibilities of broad outbreaks this fall.

We'd also have a Rolling Stones North American tour starting late August or early September.

But those vax rates clearly aren't happening anytime soon, if ever, in America's Red States, due to obstinance and defiance that serve no real purpose and are causing only harm to the whole country, and beyond.

Some people are just selfish and ignorant. They really don't care about others and just want to pass blame.

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TheBluesHadaBaby
For those who hide in a shack in the woods like a unibomber and never interact with another soul, fine, don't get vaxxed if you don't want to, nobody gives a f**k.

Everybody else, though, you're part of human society, like it or not. A global pandemic is killing millions, science has come up with a way to stop it, and if you refuse to help, then you are one of the people enabling the virus to continue infecting people, to keep mutating, and to continue killing people.

One's right to freely swing one's fists around ends where the next person's nose begins, is how I've always understood personal freedom. We all have responsibilities to help look out for each other's health and safety. But vaccination refuseniks are totally rejecting that paradigm.

If in August the U.S. had 70%, 75%+ of the adult population vaccinated, something physically very possible if people cooperated, then Covid Delta wouldn't stand a chance and we'd not be looking any possibilities of broad outbreaks this fall.

We'd also have a Rolling Stones North American tour starting late August or early September.

But those vax rates clearly aren't happening anytime soon, if ever, in America's Red States, due to obstinance and defiance that serve no real purpose and are causing only harm to the whole country, and beyond.

punching OTHER people in the face is illegal.

refusing to put medicine in YOUR OWN BODY is not.

unfortunate that you cannot accept that people have the right to choose what to put in their own body IRRESPECTIVE of how it affects you....

I agree that some of the consequences of FREE CHOICE are unpleasant...oh well.

I like having the right to choose what medicine goes in my body and what doesn't.

My Body, My Choice.

Besides...Corona is basically only killing the "defiant" Red State Unvaccinated now...you should be happy, since you clearly hate them.

[www.cnn.com]