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Re: Mick and Rae Dawn Chong
Posted by: TornAndFried ()
Date: February 7, 2020 13:07

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keithsman
Ok back to the thread discussion, been doing some research on this and it's sugested Mackenzie allegedly changed her story for the book, originally she was allegedly underage. Going back to Sept 2009 on iorr there were a few conflicting stories as to her age at the time being commented on by various posters, some implying she was underage when she lost her virginity. It gets very sad actuality, she was a drug user from the age of 13 , full on junkie by 18, and it's her father that allegedly groomed her using drugs etc. We would all rather believe her account in the book because otherwise we are getting near to that horrible word being thrown about here.

Assuming her story is true, MacKenzie Phillips was either 18 or 19 at the time she was with Mick.

Re: Mick and Rae Dawn Chong
Posted by: keithsman ()
Date: February 7, 2020 13:29

Yes but did you research Sept 09.' What was all that about, some well informed posters saying all kinds of shit, worse than this thread.

Re: Mick and Rae Dawn Chong
Posted by: TornAndFried ()
Date: February 7, 2020 13:40

Quote
keithsman
Yes but did you research Sept 09.' What was all that about, some well informed posters saying all kinds of shit, worse than this thread.

No. I didn't read the posts from 10 years ago. I did my own research.

Re: Mick and Rae Dawn Chong
Posted by: TheGreek ()
Date: February 7, 2020 14:10

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Rocky Dijon
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TheGreek
First off being that I am of Greek decent I certainly know and understand the meaning and definition of Pedophilia . Secondly I find it morally reprehensible . It is beyond disgusting that people cite ages of consent in various countries across the globe ! I am engaging in this topic and discussion and expressing myself the same as you and others are doing . So just because I disagree with some , as I do ,that I should take a hike ? Really ? Seriously ? You have got to be kidding me ?

Forgive me, I mean no disrespect to you or Doxa (whose posts are generally the most thoughtful and thought-provoking on this board). I believe his point was that pedophilia is limited to age 13 or younger and didn't apply to the alleged incident with Mick.
Greetings , I always enjoy reading your posts . Where I was coming from was that I did not personalize my comments towards anyone in particular least of all towards Mick Jagger , who any Stones fan who knows his history as many of us do here and that comment is not a judgment just a comment . Where my beliefs come from is that as a US citizen I believe that the age of consent and thusly adulthood comes from if you are old enough to serve in the Military in the US ,that is one thing . Next we have learned that peoples minds are still developing and it has been recognized that once someone in the US turns 18 that they are of legal age of consent to be an adult and thus make there own decisions and such . I know I could explain this better or in another way . I just feel that there are so many women in the world in general that you can throw a rock and hit so many of them and I apologize because I know I sound crude at this moment . What I am trying to convey is that there are so many fish in the sea of all different varieties in colors, shapes , sizes , ages , that Kids under the age of 18 should be off limits. What kind of rapport does an adult have with someone under the age of 18 that he or she wants to or does bed ? What are you going to talk about ? Where are you going to parade your Lolita around ( once again I apologize for being crude ) It is beyond disgusting to see all of this stuff in the news with disgraced Financier Jeffrey Epstein and his penchant/appetite for underage Girls , along with many people in the position of power and influence that were friends and associates of his conducting themselves in such lewd and crude and lascivious felonious ways ( once again I apologize , as who am I to judge others ? )
(I also apologize as I started writing my response in the middle of your post and so I would not mess up my train of thought I deleted several paragraphs of your response so my response would not get lost in the shuffle or misunderstood for which I am sorry for not paying attention to where I began my post ) I do not condone , nor do I accept people taking advantage of children for there own sexual gratification , regardless of they are or there position or station , or rank in life . Once again I apologize if I have come across as holier than thou as I am surely a sinner and not one to cast any rocks on any one else for there choices they make in life .

Re: Mick and Rae Dawn Chong
Posted by: TheGreek ()
Date: February 7, 2020 14:11

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keefriff99
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TheGreek
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keefriff99
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TheGreek
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Doxa
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TheGreek
I cant believe how many apologists there are for Pedophilia . Shame !

Hmm... So you are basically claiming that Mick Jagger is a pedophile (since aren't we here talking about Jagger's doings)? Probably you should check what that term means. And if you after that still believe so, you probably should rethink if this site a right place for you.

- Doxa
First off being that I am of Greek decent I certainly know and understand the meaning and definition of Pedophilia . Secondly I find it morally reprehensible . It is beyond disgusting that people cite ages of consent in various countries across the globe ! I am engaging in this topic and discussion and expressing myself the same as you and others are doing . So just because I disagree with some , as I do ,that I should take a hike ? Really ? Seriously ? You have got to be kidding me ?
Why do you find that disgusting? Age of consent laws are the only concrete, objective guidelines that exist for governing this type of sexual behavior.

The only other alternative is to leave it up to each individual's internal moral compass, or lack thereof.

So as weird as it might be to the majority of us if a 55-year old man is dating an 18-year old college freshman, it's legal and really none of our business provided no illegal abuse or coercion is going on.
Here in the states 18 is pretty much the law . I am referring to the under 18 age group . I have no position on any age adult being with another consenting adult that is at least 18 years of age . That is exactly where I am coming from .
So your stance is that if 16 is the legal age of consent in a given state or country, and an adult acts on that, it's still morally wrong to you personally?
I believe the age of consent should be 18 years of age .

Re: Mick and Rae Dawn Chong
Posted by: keithsman ()
Date: February 7, 2020 14:14

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TornAndFried
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keithsman
Yes but did you research Sept 09.' What was all that about, some well informed posters saying all kinds of shit, worse than this thread.

No. I didn't read the posts from 10 years ago. I did my own research.

Someone called cindyc ( well informed ) said the story was always that she was underage but changed it for the book because she didn't want to get in trouble. Shit happens as you know. Look at Kevin Spacy, accusers dropping like flies. Powerfull forces at play here.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-02-08 10:59 by keithsman.

Re: Mick and Rae Dawn Chong
Date: February 7, 2020 14:23

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keithsman
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TornAndFried
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keithsman
Yes but did you research Sept 09.' What was all that about, some well informed posters saying all kinds of shit, worse than this thread.

No. I didn't read the posts from 10 years ago. I did my own research.

Someone called cindyc ( well informed ) said the story was always that she was 14 but changed it for the book because she didn't want to get in trouble. Shit happens as you know. Look at Kevin Spacy, accusers dropping like flies. Powerfull forces at play here, wouldn't be surprised if one or two were on the payroll here to smooth things over. Carpenters, Metallica, do me a favour.

Litterally. They're dying. eye popping smiley

Re: Mick and Rae Dawn Chong
Posted by: Rocky Dijon ()
Date: February 7, 2020 14:57

Look no further than her Dad's song, "She's Just Fourteen" on PAY, PACK, AND FOLLOW or PUSSYCATS, keithsman. Sordid doesn't even come close to describe the situation. Good song, though. Good or sometimes great art comes out of the worst situations and people. I saw the recent photos of Rae Dawn and thought she looked like a regular person who left that world behind. She looks happy and healthy and a fun Grandma. Good for her. Glad her relationship with her Dad is strong. Being a survivor is more important than still looking like a sex object. And yes, she was stunningly beautiful in her twenties.

Frankotero, I couldn't agree more.

Re: Mick and Rae Dawn Chong
Posted by: Rocky Dijon ()
Date: February 7, 2020 15:07

Quote
keithsman
Powerful forces at play here, wouldn't be surprised if one or two were on the payroll here to smooth things over. Carpenters, Metallica, do me a favour.

Well I started The Carpenters bit to reference what people could look to if they wanted wholesome artists whose lives were devoid of controversy (barring Karen's sad eating disorder). Hairball picked it up and ran with it because of a childhood memory of being subjected to them. In both cases, I'm fairly certain all Carpenters references were just light relief and not a conspiracy of Mick's underlings protecting their boss' interests. If that were the case, Bjornulf would have deleted the thread long ago. I do like the idea of Hairball being a paid operative of Mick. My gosh, have you read the man's posts? A passionate Stones fan but someone not afraid to say what he thinks of Mick. As for me, well, revvy did insist I was on the Stones payroll, but revvy was great fun with one foot in fiction at the best of times. I only wish I had the Stones for an additional revenue stream. Sadly, I couldn't make fun of Matt Clifford if I did.

As for Metallica, man, don't stir that pot again. Gaslight shoved me out of the way and took the brunt on his own. As Mick said in "Too Much Blood," "truth is stranger than fiction." Sometimes you couldn't make up the things that appear on the internet if you tried.

Re: Mick and Rae Dawn Chong
Posted by: Doxa ()
Date: February 7, 2020 16:40

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TheGreek
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Doxa
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TheGreek
I cant believe how many apologists there are for Pedophilia . Shame !

Hmm... So you are basically claiming that Mick Jagger is a pedophile (since aren't we here talking about Jagger's doings)? Probably you should check what that term means. And if you after that still believe so, you probably should rethink if this site a right place for you.

- Doxa
First off being that I am of Greek decent I certainly know and understand the meaning and definition of Pedophilia . Secondly I find it morally reprehensible . It is beyond disgusting that people cite ages of consent in various countries across the globe ! I am engaging in this topic and discussion and expressing myself the same as you and others are doing . So just because I disagree with some , as I do ,that I should take a hike ? Really ? Seriously ? You have got to be kidding me ?

Well, my intention was not to try you kick out of here or any way silent you. I was thinking this case more from your point of view. If you seriously believe that (a) the central figure this site is created around is a phedophile, and (b) there are many people who are "apologists for phedophilia", I think just for your own mental health it would be not good to be associated with such folks. If I were you, I would stay away.

But still I am not totally convinced that you are very familiar with the meaning of the term 'phedophilia'. Nor I don't quite grasp what being a Greek decent makes one an expert.

But let the discussion continue!

- Doxa (a Greek term, by the way)

Re: Mick and Rae Dawn Chong
Posted by: Doxa ()
Date: February 7, 2020 16:43

By the way, there is a good chance that we will get a new "The Plot Thickens" thread out of this one... conspiricies, criminal acts...etc. etc. drinking smiley

- Doxa

Re: Mick and Rae Dawn Chong
Posted by: Doxa ()
Date: February 7, 2020 16:46

Quote
Rocky Dijon
I do like the idea of Hairball being a paid operative of Mick.

Haha, me too! That's a good one, Rocky!

- Doxa

Re: Mick and Rae Dawn Chong
Posted by: Rocky Dijon ()
Date: February 7, 2020 16:51

Quote
TheGreek
What kind of rapport does an adult have with someone under the age of 18 that he or she wants to or does bed ? What are you going to talk about ? Where are you going to parade your Lolita around ( once again I apologize for being crude )

I agree with just about everything you say regarding what is or isn't appropriate. By that I mean that's how I feel about it. I wouldn't presume to tell someone from a different culture they're wrong or look upon someone in the past as wrong. Customs vary. That said, to your point, where are the shared points of reference? I don't think we're talking meaningful relationships. That doesn't mean it's not illegal or immoral, but that it's nothing more than what it seems to be for both parties. I have a friend married to someone 15 years younger than him. There are certainly limits to their shared points of reference. They love one another, but at times it's a bit like a Father/Daughter relationship. To me, that's odd and a bit creepy. For them, it works. And no, it didn't start when she was a teenager.

Re: Mick and Rae Dawn Chong
Posted by: keithsman ()
Date: February 7, 2020 16:53

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Doxa
Quote
Rocky Dijon
I do like the idea of Hairball being a paid operative of Mick.

Haha, me too! That's a good one, Rocky!

- Doxa

grinning smileyeye rolling smiley I'm such a dick at times.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-02-07 16:54 by keithsman.

Re: Mick and Rae Dawn Chong
Posted by: MichaelLassen ()
Date: February 7, 2020 17:58

I find the most unbelievable thing in all of this, is that Keith supposedly was up before Mick... In 77? really :-)

Re: Mick and Rae Dawn Chong
Posted by: TheGreek ()
Date: February 7, 2020 19:47

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Doxa
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TheGreek
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Doxa
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TheGreek
I cant believe how many apologists there are for Pedophilia . Shame !

Hmm... So you are basically claiming that Mick Jagger is a pedophile (since aren't we here talking about Jagger's doings)? Probably you should check what that term means. And if you after that still believe so, you probably should rethink if this site a right place for you.

- Doxa
First off being that I am of Greek decent I certainly know and understand the meaning and definition of Pedophilia . Secondly I find it morally reprehensible . It is beyond disgusting that people cite ages of consent in various countries across the globe ! I am engaging in this topic and discussion and expressing myself the same as you and others are doing . So just because I disagree with some , as I do ,that I should take a hike ? Really ? Seriously ? You have got to be kidding me ?

Well, my intention was not to try you kick out of here or any way silent you. I was thinking this case more from your point of view. If you seriously believe that (a) the central figure this site is created around is a phedophile, and (b) there are many people who are "apologists for phedophilia", I think just for your own mental health it would be not good to be associated with such folks. If I were you, I would stay away.

But still I am not totally convinced that you are very familiar with the meaning of the term 'phedophilia'. Nor I don't quite grasp what being a Greek decent makes one an expert.

But let the discussion continue!

- Doxa (a Greek term, by the way)
Your really on a roll aren't you ? Please feel free to go back and re read my posts and please take not that I did not personalize my comments in any ones direction the least of all Mick Jagger . Google defines Pedophilia as -sexual feelings directed toward children . Merriam Webster as sexual perversion in which children are the preferred sexual object specifically: a psychiatric disorder in which an adult has sexual fantasies about or engages in sexual acts with a prepubescent child . So are you going to argue the technicality of the word "prepubescent" ? Doxa from Ancient Greek -"glory" , "praise" . Modern terms -common belief or popular opinion from which are derived the modern terms of Orthodoxy and heterodoxy . So how am I doing ? Please enlighten me as I must be in the dark ? on this topic or subject .

Re: Mick and Rae Dawn Chong
Posted by: TheGreek ()
Date: February 7, 2020 19:49

Quote
MichaelLassen
I find the most unbelievable thing in all of this, is that Keith supposedly was up before Mick... In 77? really :-)
quite incredible for 1977 !

Re: Mick and Rae Dawn Chong
Posted by: keithsman ()
Date: February 7, 2020 19:59

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TheGreek
Quote
MichaelLassen
I find the most unbelievable thing in all of this, is that Keith supposedly was up before Mick... In 77? really :-)
quite incredible for 1977 !

It's not that Keith was up before Mick, he just didn't bother going to bed winking smiley

Re: Mick and Rae Dawn Chong
Posted by: TheGreek ()
Date: February 7, 2020 20:17

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keithsman
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TheGreek
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MichaelLassen
I find the most unbelievable thing in all of this, is that Keith supposedly was up before Mick... In 77? really :-)
quite incredible for 1977 !

It's not that Keith was up before Mick, he just didn't bother going to bed winking smiley
Of course not and maybe miss out on some fun ?

Re: Mick and Rae Dawn Chong
Posted by: keithsman ()
Date: February 7, 2020 21:02

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TheGreek
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keithsman
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TheGreek
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MichaelLassen
I find the most unbelievable thing in all of this, is that Keith supposedly was up before Mick... In 77? really :-)
quite incredible for 1977 !

It's not that Keith was up before Mick, he just didn't bother going to bed winking smiley
Of course not and maybe miss out on some fun ?

No sorry Keith doesn't do teenager's, just drugs and alcohol, he doesn't see women as pieces of meat either like some on here. The guidelines on iorr are like this, below age 13 bad, anything above well that's just being a Rock star.

Re: Mick and Rae Dawn Chong
Posted by: TheGreek ()
Date: February 7, 2020 21:05

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keithsman
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TheGreek
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keithsman
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TheGreek
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MichaelLassen
I find the most unbelievable thing in all of this, is that Keith supposedly was up before Mick... In 77? really :-)
quite incredible for 1977 !

It's not that Keith was up before Mick, he just didn't bother going to bed winking smiley
Of course not and maybe miss out on some fun ?

No sorry Keith doesn't do teenager's, just drugs and alcohol, he doesn't see women as pieces of meat either like some on here. The guidelines on iorr are like this, below age 13 bad, anything above well that's just being a Rock star.
I see that and now I know .

Re: Mick and Rae Dawn Chong
Posted by: keefriff99 ()
Date: February 7, 2020 21:09

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keithsman
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TheGreek
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keithsman
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TheGreek
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MichaelLassen
I find the most unbelievable thing in all of this, is that Keith supposedly was up before Mick... In 77? really :-)
quite incredible for 1977 !

It's not that Keith was up before Mick, he just didn't bother going to bed winking smiley
Of course not and maybe miss out on some fun ?

No sorry Keith doesn't do teenager's, just drugs and alcohol, he doesn't see women as pieces of meat either like some on here. The guidelines on iorr are like this, below age 13 bad, anything above well that's just being a Rock star.
Are you being sarcastic??

Keith was capable of being just as debauched as scummy as any rock star back in the day. While he may have had a different set of vices, his behavior towards women was hardly enlightened.

Opiates suppress sex drive, so he probably missed out on a lot of questionable sexual behavior by being a junkie for most of the '70s.

Re: Mick and Rae Dawn Chong
Posted by: keithsman ()
Date: February 7, 2020 21:30

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keefriff99
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keithsman
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TheGreek
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keithsman
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TheGreek
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MichaelLassen
I find the most unbelievable thing in all of this, is that Keith supposedly was up before Mick... In 77? really :-)
quite incredible for 1977 !

It's not that Keith was up before Mick, he just didn't bother going to bed winking smiley
Of course not and maybe miss out on some fun ?

No sorry Keith doesn't do teenager's, just drugs and alcohol, he doesn't see women as pieces of meat either like some on here. The guidelines on iorr are like this, below age 13 bad, anything above well that's just being a Rock star.
Are you being sarcastic??

Keith was capable of being just as debauched as scummy as any rock star back in the day. While he may have had a different set of vices, his behavior towards women was hardly enlightened.

Opiates suppress sex drive, so he probably missed out on a lot of questionable sexual behavior by being a junkie for most of the '70s.

Well I've heard it all now, you guys have an angle for everything, and no i wasn't being sarcastic. And no I'm not an overly moral person myself, drink to excess on occasion and yeah look at girls that are 16 or whatever, but the difference is i haven't acted on it, what does a grown man have in common with a teenager. It's just not normal for mature men to pursue teenagers, that's my point in all this. Yeah sure look, but don't touch.

Re: Mick and Rae Dawn Chong
Posted by: keefriff99 ()
Date: February 7, 2020 21:37

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keithsman
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keefriff99
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keithsman
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TheGreek
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keithsman
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TheGreek
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MichaelLassen
I find the most unbelievable thing in all of this, is that Keith supposedly was up before Mick... In 77? really :-)
quite incredible for 1977 !

It's not that Keith was up before Mick, he just didn't bother going to bed winking smiley
Of course not and maybe miss out on some fun ?

No sorry Keith doesn't do teenager's, just drugs and alcohol, he doesn't see women as pieces of meat either like some on here. The guidelines on iorr are like this, below age 13 bad, anything above well that's just being a Rock star.
Are you being sarcastic??

Keith was capable of being just as debauched as scummy as any rock star back in the day. While he may have had a different set of vices, his behavior towards women was hardly enlightened.

Opiates suppress sex drive, so he probably missed out on a lot of questionable sexual behavior by being a junkie for most of the '70s.

Well I've heard it all now, you guys have an angle for everything, and no i wasn't being sarcastic. And no I'm not an overly moral person myself, drink to excess on occasion and yeah look at girls that are 16 or whatever, but the difference is i haven't acted on it, what does a grown man have in common with a teenager. It's just not normal for mature men to pursue teenagers, that's my point in all this. Yeah sure look, but don't touch.
I'm not sure what your response has to do with what I posted.

All I meant was that I don't believe he was some sweet, chivalrous gentlemen towards women, especially in the '60s and '70s. He may not have run through women the way Mick did/does, but he's not a white knight either.

Re: Mick and Rae Dawn Chong
Posted by: keithsman ()
Date: February 7, 2020 22:13

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keefriff99
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keithsman
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keefriff99
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keithsman
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TheGreek
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keithsman
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TheGreek
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MichaelLassen
I find the most unbelievable thing in all of this, is that Keith supposedly was up before Mick... In 77? really :-)
quite incredible for 1977 !

It's not that Keith was up before Mick, he just didn't bother going to bed winking smiley
Of course not and maybe miss out on some fun ?

No sorry Keith doesn't do teenager's, just drugs and alcohol, he doesn't see women as pieces of meat either like some on here. The guidelines on iorr are like this, below age 13 bad, anything above well that's just being a Rock star.
Are you being sarcastic??

Keith was capable of being just as debauched as scummy as any rock star back in the day. While he may have had a different set of vices, his behavior towards women was hardly enlightened.

Opiates suppress sex drive, so he probably missed out on a lot of questionable sexual behavior by being a junkie for most of the '70s.

Well I've heard it all now, you guys have an angle for everything, and no i wasn't being sarcastic. And no I'm not an overly moral person myself, drink to excess on occasion and yeah look at girls that are 16 or whatever, but the difference is i haven't acted on it, what does a grown man have in common with a teenager. It's just not normal for mature men to pursue teenagers, that's my point in all this. Yeah sure look, but don't touch.
I'm not sure what your response has to do with what I posted.

All I meant was that I don't believe he was some sweet, chivalrous gentlemen towards women, especially in the '60s and '70s. He may not have run through women the way Mick did/does, but he's not a white knight either.


Sorry I'm not making much sence am i hehe.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-02-08 20:03 by keithsman.

Re: Mick and Rae Dawn Chong
Posted by: keithsman ()
Date: February 7, 2020 22:20

This sketch is funny , it's that window of opportunity within the first two drinks.
[youtu.be]

Re: Mick and Rae Dawn Chong
Posted by: Rocky Dijon ()
Date: February 7, 2020 22:36

What's difficult is when people aren't condemning this behavior, they are misunderstood as condoning it.

Yes, engaging in sex with teenage partners is wrong and should be illegal, but I'm glad my favorite band didn't break up because multiple band members broke the law. It's really no different than Keith's heroin use in that sense.

If I knew the people involved, I'm sure I'd feel differently. For me, it's the same thing as hearing about a tragedy and thinking it's awful and then moving on vs. sobbing for hours about people I didn't know. If Jerry Hall or Patti Hansen were my relatives I might feel differently about matters (as a for instance). They're not family so the failings, bad choices, and terrible behavior of my favorite band doesn't impact me too deeply.

If it was something I was genuinely shocked by, it might be different. Nearly half a century into this world, I'm well aware musicians and teenage girls are a common mix. It's wrong. I wouldn't want it to be my daughter. I wouldn't have wanted it to be my sister. It's wrong but I expect it and knowledge that it went on or goes on doesn't stop me from being a fan of the music. There is lots about them that is hardly role model behavior.

I have to worry about the terrible mistakes I've made or my family makes. I can't really pretend to grieve about the mistakes of people whose work I'm a fan of who don't have a clue who I am. Perhaps it's terribly cynical, but if you told me Rae Dawn Chong (who was an amazingly gorgeous girl) was a wild child in the 1970s and knew personally Mick and Ryan O'Neal, I'd be surprised to learn nothing happened rather than the fact that something did. That's really been my whole reaction to all of this.

Unfortunately, being curmudgeonly others may have felt me expressing my opinion meant they were being told they couldn't do the same. I didn't mean to convey that ever. To pick on just one example, nick is someone whose posts I've read for years. I would never have guessed this would have turned into angry confrontations that raged for days in this thread. I get that controversial issues elicit sensitive reactions. Likewise I'm saddened to see very good people saying they were leaving over this. Hopefully it's temporary. Everyone is here because of their passion for the band and our various viewpoints are the lifeblood of IORR.

Well that and The Carpenters...

Re: Mick and Rae Dawn Chong
Posted by: keithsman ()
Date: February 7, 2020 23:14

I think people get angry because of what this is a symbol of more than anything else.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-02-08 20:00 by keithsman.

Re: Mick and Rae Dawn Chong
Posted by: Rockman ()
Date: February 7, 2020 23:37





ROCKMAN

Re: Mick and Rae Dawn Chong
Posted by: Rocky Dijon ()
Date: February 8, 2020 00:29

Wasn't that scene sampled for one of the extended mixes of "Charmed Life?" It's been ages since I've watched RUNNING OUT OF LUCK in its entirety. I always wondered if the plantation owner was supposed to be Bianca. There's no denying the "Secrets" video is aimed squarely at Jerry and Robert Sangster. There's so much art imitating life in that film it's mind-boggling. What about Ritchie, the pop star at the airport being mobbed? It was ages before I found out that was a real person and not just an analogue.

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