I'm curious to hear the GYYYO! version with the live vocal, the "But it's alright, yeah it's alright" instead of the "But it's allllllll-ryyyyyyyyyyyte" vocal.

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GasLightStreet
I'm curious to hear the GYYYO! version with the live vocal, the "But it's alright, yeah it's alright" instead of the "But it's allllllll-ryyyyyyyyyyyte" vocal.

I posted the entire first show at MSG on Nov. 27th yesterday, which has the original vocal for JJF and HTW! Audience recording but it's very weird to hear the same music from GYYYO with the original vocal instead.


[www.youtube.com]

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doitywoik

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DandelionPowderman


Well, check out Crackin' Up (Love You Live) and LSTNT (Still Life), and you'll find that they do

Not sure about the 70s but in 81/82 Mick did play rhythm in concert on a (small) number of songs.

Not on these tracks

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JordyLicks96

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DandelionPowderman

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JordyLicks96
The official release of GET YER YA YA'S OUT features no new guitar overdubs. New vocals were overdubbed for 7 of the 10 tracks:

Jumpin' Jack Flash
Carol
Stray Cat Blues
Live With Me
Little Queenie
Honky Tonk Women
Street Fighting Man

Of course there are guitar overdubs on Ya Yas. Check out the rhythm guitar tracks on Carol and Little Queenie

Keith played new rhythm guitar tracks and wiped Taylor.

I'm not too sure about that. You could be right but unfortunately there are no audience recordings from the first show at MSG on November 28th to compare with. I do have original soundboard recordings of Carol, Little Queenie, and Street Fighting Man from Ya Yas with the original vocals. I'll be posting them to my YT channel tomorrow. Listening to those, it doesn't sound like any new guitars were added.

Plus here's some rare footage from the first show on the 28th. Jumpin' Jack Flash and Carol are shown. This is the version of Carol used on Ya Yas and judging by the footage, it sounds EXACTLY the same on Ya Yas. Let me know what you think

[www.youtube.com]

You're not sure? Just listen Don't you recognise Keith's playing style and sound in the left speaker on those songs?

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JordyLicks96

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GasLightStreet
I'm curious to hear the GYYYO! version with the live vocal, the "But it's alright, yeah it's alright" instead of the "But it's allllllll-ryyyyyyyyyyyte" vocal.

I posted the entire first show at MSG on Nov. 27th yesterday, which has the original vocal for JJF and HTW! Audience recording but it's very weird to hear the same music from GYYYO with the original vocal instead.


[www.youtube.com]

SFTD incredible, even better by far than on Ya Ya's. Incredible!

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TheflyingDutchman

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Mathijs

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RobertJohnson

MT is a great Rhythm guitarist - too

Actually, not really. He's fairly lacklustre in his rhtyhm playing, and likes to accent the 1 on the beat, which is obstrusive with Keith's sense of timing.

Mathijs

Taylor likes a bit more of subtle variety when playing rhythm guitar. Often he switches very fast and smart between lead, licks and rhythm. Dance little sister is a great example. Gimme shelter Philly '72 another. Whether it's obstrusive with Keith's sense of timing is completely irrelevant. At the contrary, they complemented each other. Of course playing rhythm guitar is not Taylor's main occupation, unlike Keith, who made it his expertise. However the footage below shows us that Taylor easily produces a great rhythm groove that doesn't make him lesser rhythm player than Keith if he has to. Different? Yes. With Keith as rhythm player aboard Taylor didn't have to give it all. He liked noodling better. The lazy bastard.




Realin' and Rockin' Taylor 1986

This I don't understand. It's quite important for a rhythm part not to get in the way of another, more driving, rythm part, or with the main vocal or piano melody. This is the sole reason Taylor's parts are so often wiped, as he tends to emphesize different timinig signatures than Keith. Also Taylor's rhythm parts were mostly recored live, without any vocals, and during overdubbing sessions when the lyrics and vocal melody is added, and then are found to be obtrusive.

Taylor's way of playing a driving boogie, like on Star Star, or any of the RnR numbers they did in 1972 and 1973 is just not fully convincing as he does not accent the back beat -which defines the roll in rock - but he accents the upbeat. He's a bit like Darryl Jones, whom also plays tightly 'on the one', which takes out all the air out of RnR.

By the way, Taylor does not play any rhythm guitar on Dance Little Sister, that's all lead.

Mathijs

I still think Taylor as a rhtyhm guitar within the Stones in those years was perfect. I see where Mathijs says exactly what bugs him about MT's rhythm playing. It makes sense, and I;m sure MT on his own is not even in the same time-zone as Keith or Ronnie. But put up against Keith's choppy style, or Keith's leads, the Bill/Charlie rhythm section he was perfect in many ways.
While I love Ron Wood , and they love to talk about weaving etc, they never got that roll back. Ron and Keith sort of doing the same thing often.

Ronnie is far more funky rhythm-wise than that of Keith. I can't hear much resemblance in their rhythm guitar-playing.

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Palace Revolution 2000

While I love Ron Wood , and they love to talk about weaving etc, they never got that roll back. Ron and Keith sort of doing the same thing often.

I wholeheartedly disagree. The way Keith and Wood weaved their rhtyhm parts and riffs and licks from 1977 to 1981 is truly amazing, and really one of the hardest thing to achieve.

Mathijs

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Mathijs

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TheflyingDutchman

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Mathijs

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RobertJohnson

MT is a great Rhythm guitarist - too

Actually, not really. He's fairly lacklustre in his rhtyhm playing, and likes to accent the 1 on the beat, which is obstrusive with Keith's sense of timing.

Mathijs

Taylor likes a bit more of subtle variety when playing rhythm guitar. Often he switches very fast and smart between lead, licks and rhythm. Dance little sister is a great example. Gimme shelter Philly '72 another. Whether it's obstrusive with Keith's sense of timing is completely irrelevant. At the contrary, they complemented each other. Of course playing rhythm guitar is not Taylor's main occupation, unlike Keith, who made it his expertise. However the footage below shows us that Taylor easily produces a great rhythm groove that doesn't make him lesser rhythm player than Keith if he has to. Different? Yes. With Keith as rhythm player aboard Taylor didn't have to give it all. He liked noodling better. The lazy bastard.




Realin' and Rockin' Taylor 1986

This I don't understand. It's quite important for a rhythm part not to get in the way of another, more driving, rythm part, or with the main vocal or piano melody. This is the sole reason Taylor's parts are so often wiped, as he tends to emphesize different timinig signatures than Keith. Also Taylor's rhythm parts were mostly recored live, without any vocals, and during overdubbing sessions when the lyrics and vocal melody is added, and then are found to be obtrusive.

Taylor's way of playing a driving boogie, like on Star Star, or any of the RnR numbers they did in 1972 and 1973 is just not fully convincing as he does not accent the back beat -which defines the roll in rock - but he accents the upbeat. He's a bit like Darryl Jones, whom also plays tightly 'on the one', which takes out all the air out of RnR.

By the way, Taylor does not play any rhythm guitar on Dance Little Sister, that's all lead.

Mathijs

t zal me ook verder aan mijn reet roesten.

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Mathijs

...Taylor's way of playing a driving boogie, like on Star Star, or any of the RnR numbers they did in 1972 and 1973 is just not fully convincing as he does not accent the back beat -which defines the roll in rock - but he accents the upbeat. He's a bit like Darryl Jones, whom also plays tightly 'on the one', which takes out all the air out of RnR...

Mathijs

or...."it don't mean a thing if it ain't got swing "

I wholeheartedly disagree. The way Keith and Wood weaved their rhtyhm parts and riffs and licks from 1977 to 1981 is truly amazing, and really one of the hardest thing to achieve.

Mathijs[/quote]

I second all Mathijs´s comments on this subject. I´ve been playing "rhythm guitar" or "2nd guitar" in several bands since the late 70´s. I´ve always found Mick Taylor exceptionally boring when it comes to his rhythm guitar playing whereas as a lead guitarist he is absolutely stunning. Real art and a real artist.

Matti

In regards to “weaving”: Maybe on the records like “Beast Of Burden” it sounds okay, but live a lot of the times they just played over top one another and it does not sound good. Accidental counterpoint is what I call it, and a lot of the time it is hot garbage.

Concerning Taylor: A lot of the songs he played on didn’t need another rhythm guitar, so he could either play exactly what Richards did or emphasize different parts of the beat, or play lead.

IMO, of course.

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TravelinMan
In regards to “weaving”: Maybe on the records like “Beast Of Burden” it sounds okay, but live a lot of the times they just played over top one another and it does not sound good. Accidental counterpoint is what I call it, and a lot of the time it is hot garbage.

Concerning Taylor: A lot of the songs he played on didn’t need another rhythm guitar, so he could either play exactly what Richards did or emphasize different parts of the beat, or play lead.

IMO, of course.

On BOB Keith plays the riff and Ronnie plays licks. For real weaving try the coda on Down In The Hole.

Regarding Taylor it's more correct to say that he thought those songs didn't need another rhythm guitar, as many of them had two different rhythm guitars. Either way is fine, of course, but it's a matter of taste.

I always came to the conclusion the whole weaving was guitar interview and guitar
magazine filler. For me two distinct guitars WEAVING was the pinnacle. LOL

[www.youtube.com]


Angie - Brussels

Two distinct guitars weaving to the heavens and not on top of each other with room
to groove for Keith and MT to explore.

[www.youtube.com]

Stevie Ray Vaughan & Double Trouble - Pride And Joy (Live at Montreux 1982)


Regarding the rhythm on any blues shuffle - Depending on the band and having only one guitar guy here Stevie nails down the blues shuffle and its hard to do try it on guitar. So MT had to keep it short and simple to Keith's fiddle as Keith was the main rhythm player with the stones.

MT's rhythm with Mayall and all his other work was more then just shuffling the blues.

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DandelionPowderman

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TravelinMan
In regards to “weaving”: Maybe on the records like “Beast Of Burden” it sounds okay, but live a lot of the times they just played over top one another and it does not sound good. Accidental counterpoint is what I call it, and a lot of the time it is hot garbage.

Concerning Taylor: A lot of the songs he played on didn’t need another rhythm guitar, so he could either play exactly what Richards did or emphasize different parts of the beat, or play lead.

IMO, of course.

On BOB Keith plays the riff and Ronnie plays licks. For real weaving try the coda on Down In The Hole.

Regarding Taylor it's more correct to say that he thought those songs didn't need another rhythm guitar, as many of them had two different rhythm guitars. Either way is fine, of course, but it's a matter of taste.

Well it sort of depends on the song and what the piano, for instance, is doing too. “Shine A Light” and “Let It Loose” don’t need another guitar, and so there isn’t another guitar. The narrow mix of “Rip This Joint” means that one of those rhythm guitars needs to be dominant, so it is Richards’ more intricate part. You pan them wide and they sound perfectly fine spread out in a wide stereo mix.

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TravelinMan

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DandelionPowderman

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TravelinMan
In regards to “weaving”: Maybe on the records like “Beast Of Burden” it sounds okay, but live a lot of the times they just played over top one another and it does not sound good. Accidental counterpoint is what I call it, and a lot of the time it is hot garbage.

Concerning Taylor: A lot of the songs he played on didn’t need another rhythm guitar, so he could either play exactly what Richards did or emphasize different parts of the beat, or play lead.

IMO, of course.

On BOB Keith plays the riff and Ronnie plays licks. For real weaving try the coda on Down In The Hole.

Regarding Taylor it's more correct to say that he thought those songs didn't need another rhythm guitar, as many of them had two different rhythm guitars. Either way is fine, of course, but it's a matter of taste.

Well it sort of depends on the song and what the piano, for instance, is doing too. “Shine A Light” and “Let It Loose” don’t need another guitar, and so there isn’t another guitar. The narrow mix of “Rip This Joint” means that one of those rhythm guitars needs to be dominant, so it is Richards’ more intricate part. You pan them wide and they sound perfectly fine spread out in a wide stereo mix.

True, but they never played the two former songs. I like the combo of jazzy chords and licks Taylor played on RTJ, though.

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JordyLicks96

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GasLightStreet
I'm curious to hear the GYYYO! version with the live vocal, the "But it's alright, yeah it's alright" instead of the "But it's allllllll-ryyyyyyyyyyyte" vocal.

I posted the entire first show at MSG on Nov. 27th yesterday, which has the original vocal for JJF and HTW! Audience recording but it's very weird to hear the same music from GYYYO with the original vocal instead.


[www.youtube.com]

Oh wow. COOL!!!!

As far as I recall, Keith was not using any open tunings on JJF at the time.
Please correct me if I am wrong. Sounds to me like he is playing in standard tuning starting over a B chord on JJF. B-D-A-E

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Midnight Toker
As far as I recall, Keith was not using any open tunings on JJF at the time.
Please correct me if I am wrong. Sounds to me like he is playing in standard tuning starting over a B chord on JJF. B-D-A-E

Open G, capo at 4th fret from Hyde Park onwards...

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Midnight Toker
As far as I recall, Keith was not using any open tunings on JJF at the time.
Please correct me if I am wrong. Sounds to me like he is playing in standard tuning starting over a B chord on JJF. B-D-A-E

Open G.

He played JJF in standard tuning on Rock'n'Roll Circus the year before, though.

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Mathijs

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Palace Revolution 2000

While I love Ron Wood , and they love to talk about weaving etc, they never got that roll back. Ron and Keith sort of doing the same thing often.

I wholeheartedly disagree. The way Keith and Wood weaved their rhtyhm parts and riffs and licks from 1977 to 1981 is truly amazing, and really one of the hardest thing to achieve.

Mathijs

Yes, there is really no argument here. As a player I much prefer Ron?Keith's world. '78 and '81 were the Stones at one of their very best sounds.
The thing that I ponder is why were the Stones so insanely good in '69-73 too? So somehow on stage there was something going very right. I agree that Taylor alone does nothing rhythmically. Only in this very particular situation.
here's an example: Sympathy for the Devil. It took a long time for them to find a groove again after Taylor left. And he played the most basic rhythm guitar ??

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Palace Revolution 2000

here's an example: Sympathy for the Devil. It took a long time for them to find a groove again after Taylor left. And he played the most basic rhythm guitar ??

I prefer the LA Friday (13) version of Sympathy over any other version!

Mathijs

Taylor's rhythm playing on Ya -Ya's Satisfaction is ace!

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Mathijs

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Palace Revolution 2000

here's an example: Sympathy for the Devil. It took a long time for them to find a groove again after Taylor left. And he played the most basic rhythm guitar ??

I prefer the LA Friday (13) version of Sympathy over any other version!

Mathijs

Is that the one with Billy Preston fairly high up in the mix? Ollie with the shakers. Those guitars are indeed on.

Mick's vocals on JJF - love it. Gives me a new angle to listen to it on GYYYO! for vocal bleed through.

Hearing this with some boominess oddly reveals just how heavy they were, like SFTD, not heavy like Metallica heavy but heavy with attitude and confidence - they'd never sounded like that before - and would continue with that through 1973, albeit a bit more streamlined.

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GasLightStreet
Mick's vocals on JJF - love it. Gives me a new angle to listen to it on GYYYO! for vocal bleed through.

Hearing this with some boominess oddly reveals just how heavy they were, like SFTD, not heavy like Metallica heavy but heavy with attitude and confidence - they'd never sounded like that before - and would continue with that through 1973, albeit a bit more streamlined.

Right! A few years back I gave a copy of Brussels to an excellent guitarist who wasn’t much of a Stones fan. He was floored by how heavy they were live.

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TravelinMan

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GasLightStreet
Mick's vocals on JJF - love it. Gives me a new angle to listen to it on GYYYO! for vocal bleed through.

Hearing this with some boominess oddly reveals just how heavy they were, like SFTD, not heavy like Metallica heavy but heavy with attitude and confidence - they'd never sounded like that before - and would continue with that through 1973, albeit a bit more streamlined.

Right! A few years back I gave a copy of Brussels to an excellent guitarist who wasn’t much of a Stones fan. He was floored by how heavy they were live.

That is interesting because you can convince doubters either way: play them 69 live and they're "wow they are hard", and then you play them Beggars Banquet, and they're like "I never knew that had all that sensitivity and Country in them; thought they were all bang bang"