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Doxa
Yeah, Mick and Keith were in the height of their creative powers at the time, so no wonder Bill's offerings were neglected.

But that said, Bill's never seemed to get over of that. It looks like that it was the BANQUET sessions after he lost his biggest interest to contribute to the band more. Or like accepting the role of being nothing but a bass player in a Mick and Keith show doing his bit out of obligation. That of Brian falling down seemingly had a role in changing the dynamics of the band, since Bill belonged more like to Brian's corner in the band. Brian, after-all, as long he was able somehow to contribute in the band (until, say, for his second arrest in 1968), he was a strong force in the band whose opinions and doings mattered, no matter how unreliable and 'difficult' he might have been. He was almost like a counter force or last resistance against Mick and Keith's total dominance. When he was gone, there would be no force like him in the band Mick and Keith should somehow take into consideration. A pretty telling example of that is the incident when Keith nastily said to Ronnie when he had suggested something: "Who the hell you think you are? Brian Jones?"

Bill's comments about the quality of Stones music from BEGGARS BANQUET on, has also been a bit bitter-like, and like it has been difficult for him to accept that the Stones were doing pretty amazing stuff. In STONE ALONE he sounds like busy appraising the upcoming bands like Led Zeppelin, and belittlening the Stones output. But he always sound being so proud of their earlier stuff.

But I guess that is pretty human after all. He was a Rolling Stone from the beginning, not someone looking and judging the band from the outside, and things looked different from the inside...

- Doxa

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His Majesty
I think some of those are not people who went.

It seems nothing was recorded. One of the people who did jam, their name escapes me at moment, said the jams were aimless with Brian sporadically coming and going from the music room, playing a bit of soprano saxophone, a bit of organ, but he wouldn't play guitar.

Mayall visited, but more as a friend. He attempted to play with Brian though, but said his timing etc was off. He also said Brian was using a walking stick!?

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His Majesty
I hear nothing from Bill that is on par with Mick and Keith's writing. However, I'd argue that, on occasion, that George Harrison did manage to reach the level of Paul and John.

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His Majesty
Someone commented on facebook page that maybe Brian just jumped up on harmonica for a number or so with Keith there...

Jim might be meaning that Brian never covered for Keith being ill. That, if Ronnie Wood can be believed, is what Ronnie did.

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His Majesty

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Doxa
Hehe.. Sounds like Brian had some musical disagreements about the direction of the group from pretty early on.... But going back to Richmond to play with the Yardbirds seemed to matter him musically more. Brian obviously had difficulties to deal with the pop world him and the Stones now belonged to.

- Doxa

This has put me off him.

'He said he's in the Stones now only for the money & the adulation... he say's... musically they've come to a full stop... He doesn't rate their E.P. [The Rolling Stones] at all - & say's the L.P. [The Rolling Stones] is mostly a lot of rubbish, but the star track is "Walking The Dog"...'

Now I'm wondering if the Stones music from 1964 - 1969 meant anything to him.

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His Majesty

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Doxa
Hehe.. Sounds like Brian had some musical disagreements about the direction of the group from pretty early on.... But going back to Richmond to play with the Yardbirds seemed to matter him musically more. Brian obviously had difficulties to deal with the pop world him and the Stones now belonged to.

- Doxa

This has put me off him.

'He said he's in the Stones now only for the money & the adulation... he say's... musically they've come to a full stop... He doesn't rate their E.P. [The Rolling Stones] at all - & say's the L.P. [The Rolling Stones] is mostly a lot of rubbish, but the star track is "Walking The Dog"...'

Now I'm wondering if the Stones music from 1964 - 1969 meant anything to him.

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Taylor1
Keith said in Crawdaddy magazine in 1974 that he and Mick were writing with Taylor because he thought he had the makings of a great writer.Later he said all he was was a great guitarist

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Mathijs

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Taylor1
Keith said in Crawdaddy magazine in 1974 that he and Mick were writing with Taylor because he thought he had the makings of a great writer.Later he said all he was was a great guitarist

Can you show that quote?

Mathijs

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Taylor1
Jagger said in his 1968 interview with Jann Webber in Rolling Stone that Between the Buttons was not any good except for Back Street Girl.

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Doxa

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Taylor1
Jagger said in his 1968 interview with Jann Webber in Rolling Stone that Between the Buttons was not any good except for Back Street Girl.

The difference to Brian mocking their first, just released album (and three moths earlier released EP) is that in the case of Brian those were all they had at the time, and his declaration that they have come musically to a "full stop" indicates that there is no hope in future either. But for Mick of 1968, having just released or about to release "Jumpin' Jack Flash" and having BEGGARS BANQUET in the can almost ready to go, BETWEEN THE BUTTONS was 'yesterday's papes' - an old-fashionable (and not that critically claimed or huge selling) album - and he was into new trends and sounds by then. He even claimed that he didn't recall the songs in there (released just, say, 18 months before) ... This can also seem as PR talk made in public in promoting the upcoming, supposedly groundbreaking album. Brian's remark was a private one, made to her girlfriend who shared it with her friends (and one we would know years after the fact). Doxa quote. You don’t know that Brian really said that to his girlfriend,because she is saying that not him.Whereas we know Jagger said that about Between the Buttons because it came directly from him.Plus even if he said that to his girlfriend how do you know if she quoted him accurately.Maybe what he meant was they needed to write songs and not rely on just being a covers band



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2023-02-01 18:24 by Taylor1.

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Taylor1

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Mathijs

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Taylor1
Keith said in Crawdaddy magazine in 1974 that he and Mick were writing with Taylor because he thought he had the makings of a great writer.Later he said all he was was a great guitarist

Can you show that quote?

Mathijs

I read it in Crawdaddy or possibly Creem .But I’m 99 percent sure it was Crawdaddy.My city library had old copies of the magazine, so I must have read it back in the late 1980s when I was in high school. I believe the interviewer asked Keith about Brian writing songs and Keith replied that Brian as far as he knew never wrote a song in his life.He then contrasted Taylor with that quote. I also believe the interviewer asked him about the Tony Scaduto book, and I think in this same interview he said , he”couldn’t bring himself to read anything where the author verbally raped Marianne Faithful, because she will say anything “.I think this is the interview where he also asked Keith if the band was better in 1974 than 1964 and Keith replied basically that people are nostalgic, and said that just because a guy thinks they were better in 1964 because he was screwing a chick in the back seat of his car doesn’t mean we were better then.”The article was in the magazine in the summer of 1974, right before Taylor quit In December.The Jagger interview was actually with Jonathan Cott, where Jagger says Buttons isn’t any good except for Back Street Girl.

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DiamondDog7
His Majesty,

Could you tell me which tracks Brian Jones played on Beggars Banquet, please?

This is so unclear to me. Some say he only played on some tracks and wasn't at the recording sessions that much. And others say he played on almost everything on that album...?

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DiamondDog7
His Majesty,

Could you tell me which tracks Brian Jones played on Beggars Banquet, please?

This is so unclear to me. Some say he only played on some tracks and wasn't at the recording sessions that much. And others say he played on almost everything on that album...?