The Clash are perhaps the greatest synthesis of ska, punk, rock, and hip hop God ever invented. London Calling is a solid three behind Exile and Blonde On Blonde for greatest album of all time. Besides the Stones, this is the only band I've listened to consistently since I was 10. Joe Strummer is sadly missed as he was the last of a dying breed.

I like bollocks, but hey, that´s it. They burnt everything in one album. The Clash wre far more than Punk, they copuld play any style (reggae!). Imagine the Pistols doing Reggae.

TooTough Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I like bollocks, but hey, that´s it. They burnt
> everything in one album. The Clash wre far more
> than Punk, they copuld play any style (reggae!).
> Imagine the Pistols doing Reggae.
>
>
>
> TRUTH IS STRANGER THAN FICTION, WE DRIVE THROUGH
> THERE EV´RY DAY!


big deal...the clash could play reggae....that wasnt the Pistols game..thats why the clash became a watered-down joke at the end

Leonard Keringer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
big deal...the clash could play
> reggae....that wasnt the Pistols game..thats why
> the clash became a watered-down joke at the end

Playing reggae was the reason The Clash became a watered-down joke? Or because they wre comfortable in different genres? I don't see the connection.

By the way, I think you'd agree that a lot of bands that were born out of a particular social change or cultural shift (like the punk scene) become something of a joke at the end of that period of change, the Pistols certainly fall into this category as do, arguably, all "period" music bands. I think the best of The Clash not only encapsulates their period but also transcends it. So where ever they might have ended up as a band, their material and live performances rank very highly. And I think that part of their ability to transcend their time comes from the ability to mold and reshape different musical genres. The Stones and Dylan could have been "a joke" in their own ways if they didn't break through and reinvent the genres that initially shaped them. Some (ill-informed) folks would say that the Stones have been a Joke since GTS, IORR, or Undercover, etc.

Regarding bollocks being better than the best Clash disc/ record, I don't know if "out-rocking" is the only criterion I'd want to use to make the assessment. I think the diversity, range, musicianship/ playing ability, freshness, and consistency mean a lot for London Calling. I'd make a similar argument for Sandinista, save for consistency.

Let me put it this way, I think Bollocks is fine (great), but I prefer the Clash's whole body of work to the Pistols any day and I'd, personally speaking, prefer London Calling to Bollocks but I can see where you're coming from.

Leonard Keringer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

thats why
> the clash became a watered-down joke at the end


Speaking of jokes: The Sex Pistols reunion (wasn´t it 1996?) is a much better one!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2005-10-13 23:10 by TooTough.

TooTough Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Leonard Keringer Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> thats why
> > the clash became a watered-down joke at the
> end
>
>
> Speaking of jokes: The Sex Pistols reunion (wasn´t
> it 1996?) is a much better one!
>
>
>
> i agree with ya on that TooTough....i avoided it
>
>
> Edited 1 times. Last edit at 10/13/05 23:10 by
> TooTough.

In my opinion the two best rock albums ever ever made were Exile and London Calling

camper88 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Leonard Keringer Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> big deal...the clash could play
> > reggae....that wasnt the Pistols game..thats
> why
> > the clash became a watered-down joke at the
> end
>
> Playing reggae was the reason The Clash became a
> watered-down joke? NO JUST THEIR MUSIC IN GENERAL Or because they wre
> comfortable in different genres? I don't see the
> connection.
>
> By the way, I think you'd agree that a lot of
> bands that were born out of a particular social
> change or cultural shift (like the punk scene)
> become something of a joke at the end of that
> period of change, the Pistols certainly fall into
> this category as do, arguably, all "period" music
> bands. I think the best of The Clash not only
> encapsulates their period but also transcends it.
> So where ever they might have ended up as a band,
> their material and live performances rank very
> highly. And I think that part of their ability to
> transcend their time comes from the ability to
> mold and reshape different musical genres. The
> Stones and Dylan could have been "a joke" in their
> own ways if they didn't break through and reinvent
> the genres that initially shaped them. Some
> (ill-informed) folks would say that the Stones
> have been a Joke since GTS, IORR, or Undercover,
> etc.
>
> Regarding bollocks being better than the best
> Clash disc/ record, I don't know if "out-rocking"
> is the only criterion I'd want to use to make the
> assessment. I think the diversity, range,
> musicianship/ playing ability, freshness, and
> consistency mean a lot for London Calling. I'd
> make a similar argument for Sandinista, save for
> consistency.
>
> Let me put it this way, I think Bollocks is fine
> (great), but I prefer the Clash's whole body of
> work to the Pistols any day and I'd, personally
> speaking, prefer London Calling to Bollocks but I
> can see where you're coming from.
>
>
>
>
Ride on...rock the casbah....think i'll take off bollocks & put on Combat Rock & Cut the Crap & Sandinista for some diversity




Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2005-10-13 23:32 by Leonard Keringer.

Hey Leonard, where ever you are, can ya spare 80 min. with this?

The Clash - Westway to the World

...it frikkin' rocks!


[vids.rationalveracity.com]

Picture and note of Bob Gruen are worth a thousand words.

Quote
Gazza
I only saw the "Mk II" version on their last tour after Mick Jones and Topper had left. I still thought they were pretty good although that era gets a bad rap

IMO they were the greatest band to have emerged after the 60's. A band who put their principles where their mouth was, despite their many flaws.

very underrated musically by people who just dismiss them as a "punk" band. There was much more to them than that. I still think Topper Headon was a helluva drummer.

I @#$%&' love them.

I saw The Carry-On Clash as well, Gazza. Brixton Academy, on the Out of Control tour. Unfortunately - for them - I'd seen the real thing a few times too. You're right. They weren't a bad band at all, and the replacements could play, but it really was The Surrogate Clash.

Johnny Green - the Clash's former roadie (and now the person who handles the band's affairs) - said that he went to one of the Brixton shows, thought it sucked and told Strummer backstage afterwards. Strummer looked at him, said "I know" and burst out crying.

That said, Strummer wrote two great songs in that period - This is England and In The Pouring Rain (which was unreleased until it came out on the soundtrack to The Future is Unwritten - albeit lifted from a bootleg). Cut the Crap, for all its failings, was an oddly experimental album, fusing hip-hop beats to punk-tilted songs. That's the kindest thing you can say about it. The worst is that it's Joe Strummer doing Sham 69 outtakes with a drum machine. Blame Bernie Rhodes for that.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010-11-21 10:56 by Nikolai.

I always loved the clash, they are the voice of an generation! The first album and London calling is timeless!!!

I hate the army and I hate the RAF
I don’t wanna go fighting in the tropical heat
I hate the civil service rules
And I won’t open letter bombs for you

Quote
stanbooth


The Clash are perhaps the greatest synthesis of ska, punk, rock, and hip hop God ever invented.

I'd agree with you there wholeheartedly if you haven't said 'ska'. They only started incorporating elements of the genre into their music after they'd been supported by a band who really were (and still are) the 'greatest synthesis of ska and punk' - The Specials. Mick Jones never missed a trick.

But fully marks to you for bringing up the band's hip hop element. I consider the Magnificent Seven and Lightning Strikes among their greatest songs. I remember getting Sandinista the day it came out, and putting the needle on Track 1, Side 1 and thinking: 'WTF is THIS? The Clash go disco and Joe's talking instead of singing?'

Then there's Combat Rock, Sandinista in a blender - the album where they successfully fused all their influences - rock, rap, funk, reggae, Morricone scores - and came out with a very unique sound.

People go on about London Calling. Yes, it's a great album. Song by song, arguably The Clash's greatest. But, it was a retro album at heart, and a love letter to bygone Americana. Sandinista and Combat Rock looked forward. Flawed they may be but they've proved far more influential than London Calling. You only have to listen to Gorillaz to know which Clash albums Damon Albarn rates highest.

Quote
R
I saw every tour that ever went through the States including the faux Clash w/out Jones. I don't recall any spitting however.

The Clash were tremendous.

I saw them in London (and one gig in Leicester) from 1979 through to 1984. The only time the spit didn't rain was at two gigs at the Lyceum residency in 1981. When Clash 2 played Brixton, they were as good as baptised in phlegm.

waiting for the double Combat Rock!!!!

Quote
Jazzman5
Mick's eye was more on The Eagles, and their super selling "Hotel California" than The Clash, in the late '70's. There were published articles how he would listen to the album over and over again; not necessarily listening to "Radio Clash." I have a feeling his ingorant responses would be accurate to The Clash's effect on his songwriting. The effect heard on Some Girls was primarily Mr. Ron Wood. He woke up the band...

no offense,but you're full of crap.jagger lived in new york in the 70s and he wrote almost the entire some girls album reflecting that time and the city.he visited CBGB'S as well as studio 54.the rats on the west side,beg bugs uptown.people dressed in plastic bags,directing traffic[during the blackout]the hustler in when the whip comes down,walking central park...the puerto rican girls.you think ron wood was controlling the direction of the stones? and mick was influenced by the freakin eagles? who put that story out don henleys pr guy?the results of the clueless awards are in-you won.

Quote
bluesinc.
waiting for the double Combat Rock!!!!

That is on the cards, with a potential release slated for the album's 30th anniversary - 2012.

If it goes ahead, expect a fairly lavish package. The masters of Mick Jones's original mix of the album - including three officially unreleased outtakes: Kill Time, The Beautiful People Are Ugly Too and Walk Evil Talk - have been found.

In between, the 30th Anniversary of Sandinista was due to come out on November 2nd, but there's no sign of it. I think the release may have been held up by Paul Simenon's soon to be ex-wife, who was managing The Clash's affairs until they split (that's Mr & Mrs Simmo, not the band).



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010-11-21 13:04 by Nikolai.

I was so intrigued by Topper Headon who was using hookah pipe on the stage of Shinjuku, Tokyo in 1982.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010-11-21 14:19 by Toru A.

Quote
Nikolai


In between, the 30th Anniversary of Sandinista was due to come out on November 2nd, but there's no sign of it. I think the release may have been held up by Paul Simenon's soon to be ex-wife, who was managing The Clash's affairs until they split (that's Mr & Mrs Simmo, not the band).

what´s on it? d´you know?

Quote
Leonard Keringer
What about the Jam? ...any Jam fans out there?

I love The Jam – started a thread about them here a while back, actually.

Whilst I do like The Clash, I’ve never fully connected with them like I’ve managed to with Weller and co.

Quote
bluesinc.

Quote
Nikolai


In between, the 30th Anniversary of Sandinista was due to come out on November 2nd, but there's no sign of it. I think the release may have been held up by Paul Simenon's soon to be ex-wife, who was managing The Clash's affairs until they split (that's Mr & Mrs Simmo, not the band).

what´s on it? d´you know?

No idea. It's a big mystery. Initially, it was thought to mirror the London Calling 30th Anniversary reissue - vinyl replica sleeve and inners, with two CDs (the album - 1999 remasters) and a DVD of videos (The Call Up, some Bonds stuff), plus a making of documentary featuring new interviews with Mick, Paul and Topper, and Westway To The World stuff from Joe. So, nothing appealing.

Then Mick Jones recently said that there were some outtakes in the vaults, and that the release would be 3 CDs, mirroring the original album. There was speculation that the bonus disc would have B Sides, extended mixes and possibly unreleased songs, mostly dubs.

The release was set to appear in Japan first, on Blu-Spec CD.

i´m not so fond of Sandinista, i know some people say it´s their greatest but for me it´s to long and not that varied

I saw The Clash in Sheffield 1977, a week or so after the Stranglers. The Clash were outstanding--really on top form.

This was at a time when the old warhorses (incl. The Stones) seemed to be struggling against what to do next. IMO, Some Girls answered that for the Stones (who only played in the UK at the very beginning of the punk years). But the rest of the early 70s bands (eg. Zep, The Who) were just about done. The economy was awful, the country seemed really drab, and there was a new generation coming through who weren't really interested in these old farts.

There is a short, but quality recording of the Sheffield show where Strummer asks people not to spit at the stage. The gobbing thing was common at punk shows at the time and seems to have followed The Clash around for a while. I suppose people thought that's what you were supposed to do at a punk gigs--pretty disgusting really.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010-11-21 19:51 by bigtyke66.

Quote
bluesinc.
i´m not so fond of Sandinista, i know some people say it´s their greatest but for me it´s to long and not that varied

"Not that varied" you say? Really?

The album covers the following musical genres - rock, funk, rap (when it was still pretty much a New York genre), reggae, dub, blues, disco, folk, Stockhausen-type experimentation; sometimes it fuses the genres too.

Disc One runs like this, style wise:

The Magnificent Seven - funk-rock-rap
Hitsville UK - a rock 'n' roll duet between Mick Jones & Ellen Foley
Junco Partner - Reggae
Ivan Meets GI Joe - Disco (Sung by Topper)
The Leader - Rockabilly
Something About England - A mid-tempo ballad with a brass band
Rebel Waltz - A waltz
Look Here - Jazzy
The Crooked Beat - Reggae (Sung by Paul)
Somebody Got Murdered - Rock
One More Time - Reggae
One More Dub - Dub
Lightning Strikes - funk-rock-rap
Up In Heaven - Rock
Corner Soul - Rock
Let's Go Crazy - Calypso rock
If Music Could Talk - Reggae rock
The Sound of Sinners - Gospel

I've counted at least ten different music styles there, spread over eighteen songs. There are four different singers, not counting guests. And the instruments are very varied.

"The Clash On Broadway" is really an incedrible boxed set.

Quote
bigtyke66
I saw The Clash in Sheffield 1977, a week or so after the Stranglers. The Clash were outstanding--really on top form.

This was at a time when the old warhorses (incl. The Stones) seemed to be struggling against what to do next. IMO, Some Girls answered that for the Stones (who only played in the UK at the very beginning of the punk years). But the rest of the early 70s bands (eg. Zep, The Who) were just about done. The economy was awful, the country seemed really drab, and there was a new generation coming through who weren't really interested in these old farts.

There is a short, but quality recording of the Sheffield show where Strummer asks people not to spit at the stage. The gobbing thing was common at punk shows at the time and seems to have followed The Clash around for a while. I suppose people thought that's what you were supposed to do at a punk gigs--pretty disgusting really.

Then The Stones made Emotional Rescue .... But punk was over by then. So who cared?

As for the gobbing - punks copied Johnny Rotten, who frequently spat on stage because he has a sinus condition. (And he STILL spits on stage, albeit in a bucket now) They thought he was spitting to be outrageous.

Then again, if you want to get post-modern about it, you could say that the punks were spitting at their bands as an ideological reaction to Roger Waters spitting on a fan. But, of course, that's complete and utter bollocks. Punks spat because they were sheep. And sheep follow.

what exactly did Strummer and Jones split over? Because musically it seems like they went in somewhat similarly "forward" directions. With the rapping and drum machines, Cut the Crap is not so retro-conservative as the mohawk icon makes it seem. Wasn't there common ground there with what BAD was doing?

Sandinista is over the years a more fascinating listen than London Calling, admittedly a more flawless album.

I saw them in 1980 at the Santa Monica Civic with Mikey Dread and legend Lee Dorsey as openers.
During Mikey Dread's reggae/dub set, a majority of the crowd began booing heckling him.
Out from behind the stage came Joe Strummer and Mick Jones dressed in long overcoats, sunglasses,
and hats looking like udnercover secret agents. They began dancing/skanking along to Mikey's music,
and while many people didn't know they were actually members of The Clash, things went smooth
for the rest of the set, with the secret dancers setting off a new vibe. Then the Clash came on, and
I was simply blown away and overwhelmed by the energy of their music, the audience, and the
all around chaos...it was organized chaos! I had all of their studio albums up to that point which
I loved and listened to all the time, but to see them live was another story altogether.

Also saw them open for The Who in '82 at the L.A. Coliseum, and while I was a big fan of the Who,
the Clash were far better. One memorable moment came when they played Should I Stay or Should I Go,
and a mohawked punker started pogo-ing down the steep staircase of the Coliseum aisle...from the top!
Miraculously, he made it all the way to the field without splitting his head open.


Saw them one more time at the US Festival '83 amidst dozens of other bands for a 3 day festival.
They headlined the night they played, and I believe it was the last show (or maybe the last US show)
by the Clash with Mick Jones as a member...

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2010-11-22 00:21 by Hairball.

Quote
Nikolai

Quote
bluesinc.
waiting for the double Combat Rock!!!!

That is on the cards, with a potential release slated for the album's 30th anniversary - 2012.

If it goes ahead, expect a fairly lavish package. The masters of Mick Jones's original mix of the album - including three officially unreleased outtakes: Kill Time, The Beautiful People Are Ugly Too and Walk Evil Talk - have been found.

Sometime back I found a torrent of what claimed to be a demo tape copy of Mick Jones' original double album edit/mix of "Combat Rock" using the original working title of "Rat Patrol From Fort Bragg"





I'm uploading to Megaupload as I speak and I'll post when it's finished.


"As we say in England, it can get a bit trainspottery"

Vastly overrated. Not to say they were a bad band (they weren't) but they are nowhere near what their most devoted fans claim them to be.