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Re: OT:Fleetwood Mac Fires Lindsey Buckingham
Posted by: MisterDDDD ()
Date: April 15, 2018 22:13

Quote
marianna
I think Neil Finn can do a good job of covering Lindsey's vocals, including "Go Your Own Way." It's not the same, but it will be a professional, competent show with Neil and Mike Campbell. It is similar to the Eagles touring with Vince Gill. I wouldn't pay to see either the Eagles or Fleetwood Mac, but casual fans will get a decent show for these lineups.
Similar to the Eagles with Vince Gill, agree.

The difference for me is the reason for the replacement.
Publicly "firing" a long time band member is distasteful in my opinion, regardless of the reasoning. "Fleetwood Mac members decide to Go Their Own Way" as opposed to "Fleetwood Mac Fires Lindsey Buckingham" makes a difference to me, even if the outcome is the same. Should have worked privately to announce a mutually agreed upon split imo. Like when Mike Love fired Brian Wilson et al. from Beach Boys. Legal and accurate, yes. Distasteful? Also yes.

Re: OT:Fleetwood Mac Fires Lindsey Buckingham
Posted by: triceratops ()
Date: April 15, 2018 22:29

Quote
Jah Paul
There's lots of speculation among Mac fans of what really went down (possible ultimatums), but there may have been a conversation with promoters regarding what was a more viable proposition - an FM tour without Lindsey, or an FM tour without Stevie. I'm guessing after some careful market analysis (and considering the Eagles' recent touring success without Glenn Frey), I'm sure they're going ahead mostly as planned with a certain degree of confidence.

But why did there have to be choice between Stevie Nicks and Lindsay Buckingham? Because Nicks was demanding higher compensation than the other four. Telling them I can go on tour by myself and do much better financially. That I am 70 years old so only have so much touring left in me. Plus she saw how her best friend Tom Petty went down touring.

Lindsay Buckingham said "Equal pay for all or I am out"
And we can now see what the result was. Stevie has residual hatred for Lindsay so she won here, also giving her satisfaction.

All above is my speculation. I have zero inside sources.

Re: OT:Fleetwood Mac Fires Lindsey Buckingham
Posted by: Jah Paul ()
Date: April 15, 2018 22:37

Quote
triceratops
Quote
Jah Paul
There's lots of speculation among Mac fans of what really went down (possible ultimatums), but there may have been a conversation with promoters regarding what was a more viable proposition - an FM tour without Lindsey, or an FM tour without Stevie. I'm guessing after some careful market analysis (and considering the Eagles' recent touring success without Glenn Frey), I'm sure they're going ahead mostly as planned with a certain degree of confidence.

But why did there have to be choice between Stevie Nicks and Lindsay Buckingham? Because Nicks was demanding higher compensation than the other four. Telling them I can go on tour by myself and do much better financially. That I am 70 years old so only have so much touring left in me. Plus she saw how her best friend Tom Petty went down touring.

Lindsay Buckingham said "Equal pay for all or I am out"
And we can now see what the result was. Stevie has residual hatred for Lindsay so she won here, also giving her satisfaction.

All above is my speculation. I have zero inside sources.

Speculation on my part as well, based on conversation over at the FM forum ...one story is Lindsey wanted to do some solo dates on the FM off days, and the band (or someone in particular in the band) objected...plus the residual issues from last year's Buckingham/McVie LP, which was supposed to be an FM album originally, but Stevie extended her solo tour and didn't want to participate...and the album had been delayed before then anyway, etc. etc. etc. No one really knows for sure.

Considering this was supposed to be a farewell tour, pity they couldn't get their act together for one last go around.

Re: OT:Fleetwood Mac Fires Lindsey Buckingham
Posted by: Tate ()
Date: April 15, 2018 22:38

I just don't think there are enough casual fans of F.M. these days. Casual fans alone can't be relied upon to buy pricey tickets to any show for any band. You need the enthusiastic true fan base to dig into their pockets for a nostalgic act like this. Yeah, Finn and Campbell are professional. But they are not Lindsey Buckingham, and that will severely diminish interest in an upcoming tour among ticket-buying fans, I think. And I don't think Stevie Nicks is interested in smaller venues and less money. I think she'd rather do a solo tour and haul in a bigger percentage. She has openly stated she tours with F.M. for the money. This just seems very strange to me and I have a hard time seeing it fly.

Re: OT:Fleetwood Mac Fires Lindsey Buckingham
Posted by: Jah Paul ()
Date: April 15, 2018 22:47

Quote
Tate
There's no Go Your Own Way, or live Oh Well, or the Chain for godsake, and all those incredible backing vocals, without LB.

I agree, but I'd wager they'll be playing them...they did 'em without Lindsey from 1987-90. Heck, they did them without Lindsey, Stevie and Christine in 1994-95 (with Dave Mason and Bekka Bramlett in the band)...when they were relegated to opening act status on oldies tours, and otherwise playing very small venues.

Re: OT:Fleetwood Mac Fires Lindsey Buckingham
Posted by: crholmstrom ()
Date: April 15, 2018 23:34

i luv lindsey buckingham but i think neil finn & mike campbell are going to blow people away. hopefully they will let neil do a song or 2 of his (solo or crowded house). there are plenty that would work splendidly. i've seen him a lot over the years & he has never been anything but stunning live. something else to consider is both neil & mike (neil i know, mike i'm guessing) are not dramatic types. i was gobsmacked when i saw the news & i will go if able. + hopefully we'll get some good lindsey solo shows as a bonus!

Re: OT:Fleetwood Mac Fires Lindsey Buckingham
Posted by: triceratops ()
Date: April 15, 2018 23:47

Quote
Jah Paul
Quote
triceratops
Quote
Jah Paul
There's lots of speculation among Mac fans of what really went down (possible ultimatums), but there may have been a conversation with promoters regarding what was a more viable proposition - an FM tour without Lindsey, or an FM tour without Stevie. I'm guessing after some careful market analysis (and considering the Eagles' recent touring success without Glenn Frey), I'm sure they're going ahead mostly as planned with a certain degree of confidence.

But why did there have to be choice between Stevie Nicks and Lindsay Buckingham? Because Nicks was demanding higher compensation than the other four. Telling them I can go on tour by myself and do much better financially. That I am 70 years old so only have so much touring left in me. Plus she saw how her best friend Tom Petty went down touring.

Lindsay Buckingham said "Equal pay for all or I am out"
And we can now see what the result was. Stevie has residual hatred for Lindsay so she won here, also giving her satisfaction.

All above is my speculation. I have zero inside sources.

Speculation on my part as well, based on conversation over at the FM forum ...one story is Lindsey wanted to do some solo dates on the FM off days, and the band (or someone in particular in the band) objected...plus the residual issues from last year's Buckingham/McVie LP, which was supposed to be an FM album originally, but Stevie extended her solo tour and didn't want to participate...and the album had been delayed before then anyway, etc. etc. etc. No one really knows for sure.

Considering this was supposed to be a farewell tour, pity they couldn't get their act together for one last go around.


This will be the last Fleetwood Mac real extended tour. No tour dates announced yet tour is *supposed* to start in June. Their website in 99% blank so I see disorganization and confusion. My guess is the two new members (touring members whatever) were put out as a trial balloon so that the Mac management and bean counters can get feedback from the tour promoters. See how many seats can be sold in various venues worldwide with alleged new lineup. If feedback is negative they might do a U-turn and renegotiate with Lindsey Buckingham and still take him on board. Maybe tempers have to cool off.

Another scenario is Mac tours with Finn and Campbell. Numbers aka profits and enthusiasm are down so they take Lindsey Buckingham back for the next leg of their worldwide tour.

Re: OT:Fleetwood Mac Fires Lindsey Buckingham
Posted by: Midnight Toker ()
Date: April 16, 2018 00:28

Please retire. FM w/o Buckingham is like the Stones w/o Keith.

Re: OT:Fleetwood Mac Fires Lindsey Buckingham
Posted by: triceratops ()
Date: April 16, 2018 00:57

Quote
Midnight Toker
Please retire. FM w/o Buckingham is like the Stones w/o Keith.

Image wise Stones cannot tour without Keith. Music wise they can do so. Ronnie has taken over playing many of Keith's classic parts and classic riffs for years. All Stones would need is to take on board a guitarist like Waddy Wachtel. Or one of the ten thousand other young guns who can play Keith style guitar as competently.

Re: OT:Fleetwood Mac Fires Lindsey Buckingham
Posted by: Hairball ()
Date: April 16, 2018 01:00

Consensus amongst fans here seems to be it's a no go - I know I won't be going. Casual fans wont care, and there will probably be ultimate diehards who will see them no matter what (or some who love Stevie, or Christine, etc. and will always pay to see them), but generally speaking I predict it might be back to the state fairs...or drastically reduced ticket prices in smaller venues than the last tour which was all large arenas. Or maybe they'll hook up with some other '70's classic rock band (that's also missing key members) to help sell tickets - Journey, Kansas, Styx, Boston, Foreigner, etc.

My wife and I had tickets to see them back around 2009, but couldn't make it and gave tickets to a friend and his wife- no biggie as Christine was still not with them, but my friend said they enjoyed the show, especially for free. Then I saw them at the Forum a few years ago with all of them in the lineup, and thought it was so good that I went again when they came back about a six months or year later. No doubt Lindsey was the leader of the band - his guitar playing, singing, and all around presence was a big part of why they were such great shows, and the fact he won't be there for this upcoming tour is a massive blow to the band. If they happen to play at the local county fair and it's included with the price of admission (apprx. $10-$15) I would go, but otherwise no thanks.

--------------------------------
"Rip this joint, gonna save your soul..."




Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-04-16 01:03 by Hairball.

Re: OT:Fleetwood Mac Fires Lindsey Buckingham
Posted by: Jah Paul ()
Date: April 16, 2018 01:25

Quote
Hairball
Consensus amongst fans here seems to be it's a no go - I know I won't be going. Casual fans wont care, and there will probably be ultimate diehards who will see them no matter what (or some who love Stevie, or Christine, etc. and will always pay to see them)

On the Fleetwood Mac version of IORR, they have a poll up asking if folks are planning to attend and it's about 2-1 against...lots of unhappy fans there.

Quote
Hairball
Or maybe they'll hook up with some other '70's classic rock band (that's also missing key members) to help sell tickets - Journey, Kansas, Styx, Boston, Foreigner, etc.

I checked an FM setlist site and in 1995 (the tour without Lindsey-Christine-Stevie), they played a "Rock Fest" in Wisconsin with Kansas, Little River Band, and Foreigner...and spent the rest of that summer "supporting" REO Speedwagon and Pat Benatar.

And I'm with you on Lindsey in concert - definitely quite the presence.

Re: OT:Fleetwood Mac Fires Lindsey Buckingham
Posted by: babyblue ()
Date: April 16, 2018 02:39

Quote
triceratops
Quote
Midnight Toker
Please retire. FM w/o Buckingham is like the Stones w/o Keith.

Image wise Stones cannot tour without Keith. Music wise they can do so. Ronnie has taken over playing many of Keith's classic parts and classic riffs for years. All Stones would need is to take on board a guitarist like Waddy Wachtel. Or one of the ten thousand other young guns who can play Keith style guitar as competently.


I think it's a crazy stupid move by the band, was it the whole bands decision to let him go or just the men in the band.

Re: OT:Fleetwood Mac Fires Lindsey Buckingham
Posted by: Jah Paul ()
Date: April 16, 2018 02:55

Quote
babyblue
...was it the whole bands decision to let him go or just the men in the band.

Just the men? I have no idea if anything involved a vote of the four remaining members, but I'm guessing one of the women in the band has a greater deal of influence on future band projects, complicated no doubt by her current working relationship with Lindsey (or lack thereof, based on her non-participation on last year's planned FM album), not to mention their long, tumultuous history together. In other words, if Lindsey was truly let go, it was hardly Mick and John McVie alone making the final call.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-04-16 02:56 by Jah Paul.

Re: OT:Fleetwood Mac Fires Lindsey Buckingham
Posted by: Leonioid ()
Date: April 16, 2018 02:56

Quote
Tate
I just don't think there are enough casual fans of F.M. these days. Casual fans alone can't be relied upon to buy pricey tickets to any show for any band. You need the enthusiastic true fan base to dig into their pockets for a nostalgic act like this. Yeah, Finn and Campbell are professional. But they are not Lindsey Buckingham, and that will severely diminish interest in an upcoming tour among ticket-buying fans, I think. And I don't think Stevie Nicks is interested in smaller venues and less money. I think she'd rather do a solo tour and haul in a bigger percentage. She has openly stated she tours with F.M. for the money. This just seems very strange to me and I have a hard time seeing it fly.
thumbs up
I think you summed it all up very well.


I wonder if the old bad feelings between Stevie and Lindsey is at the root of these new issues.

Re: OT:Fleetwood Mac Fires Lindsey Buckingham
Posted by: RollingFreak ()
Date: April 16, 2018 03:20

I wish what Tate said is true, and hey maybe it is, but I truly don't think it is. Its so sad, but unfortunately no one cares about who is in a band. They want a name and a familiar face, thats it. Thats why court cases about names are so important, cause it really means that much. Stevie Nicks doesn't sell as much as Fleetwood Mac, yet many people go to Fleetwood Mac shows JUST to see Stevie Nicks. And thats the god's honest truth. Fleetwood Mac couldn't sack Stevie and do this, but they can sack Lindsey and it won't make too much difference. Which is ridiculous, but its absolutely the truth. As long as people go and see Stevie onstage they will be absolutely fine. In general, a lot of people don't know who Lindsey Buckingham is. Stevie Nicks is and always will be the biggest name in that band and we are in an era where thats all that matters. Its the same with the Eagles, its the same with Steely Dan. I consider those fans stupid, others consider them just not "music aficionados", but the bottom line is people go to shows for the most part to cross things off a list and say they saw a "name", not "people" anymore.

Re: OT:Fleetwood Mac Fires Lindsey Buckingham
Posted by: Leonioid ()
Date: April 16, 2018 03:53

Like going in person to the Final 4 but sitting in the top row of FOOTBALL STADIUM 2 1/2 miles away from a basketball court where some ants or something are running back and forth... but as long as they can say they were there and cross it off their list then they met the objective... it makes no difference if 3/4 of the eagles are real or not to those people... they wanna check the eagles off the bucket list. Desert trip was a bigger success because people could check 4-8 names off their list... maybe some went for the music, but 3/4 of the people attending were so far away watching on remote big screens, listening to remote speakers... they might as well have been at home watching a stream.

I am no fan of concerts or basketball games in HUGE stadiums (or massive fields) where 3/4 of the tickets should not exist, but as long as I am close to the stage it makes no difference about the poor saps who are miles behind me, or up sitting up in hell... then again I go to see the band members fingers hit the string and hear it live... loving the music being played by the people who wrote it... seeing the whites of their eyes... seeing them smile back at me... letting them hear me cheering them on... and if I cant do that, if I am not close to the band I would rather watch a stream. A stream is better than sitting in hell listening to the music echo back and forth across the canyon sized stadium.


My big time concert days are pretty much behind me. I would rather see a no name band in bar with 100 people paying 10 bucks per ticket than pay $250.00 face value+30% in fees for a seat a half way back balcony seat in a stadium to see a name brand act.

Re: OT:Fleetwood Mac Fires Lindsey Buckingham
Posted by: Leonioid ()
Date: April 16, 2018 03:56

The only exception to my rule is The Stones...
If/when they are within 500 miles of me, tickets in hell or not, I am going.

Re: OT:Fleetwood Mac Fires Lindsey Buckingham
Posted by: grzegorz67 ()
Date: April 16, 2018 13:28

Quote
Leonioid
Quote
Tate
I just don't think there are enough casual fans of F.M. these days. Casual fans alone can't be relied upon to buy pricey tickets to any show for any band. You need the enthusiastic true fan base to dig into their pockets for a nostalgic act like this. Yeah, Finn and Campbell are professional. But they are not Lindsey Buckingham, and that will severely diminish interest in an upcoming tour among ticket-buying fans, I think. And I don't think Stevie Nicks is interested in smaller venues and less money. I think she'd rather do a solo tour and haul in a bigger percentage. She has openly stated she tours with F.M. for the money. This just seems very strange to me and I have a hard time seeing it fly.
thumbs up
I think you summed it all up very well.


I wonder if the old bad feelings between Stevie and Lindsey is at the root of these new issues.quote]

That's a very good shout and you certainly can't rule it out. It's caused them plenty of problems in the past, as well as inspire some of their best known songs. If they play songs written or co-written by Lindsey after firing him, it will be outrageously hypocritical. I saw them in Dublin 3 years ago and Lindsey was by far the most dominant individual band member in the performance.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-04-16 14:57 by grzegorz67.

Re: OT:Fleetwood Mac Fires Lindsey Buckingham
Posted by: RollingFreak ()
Date: April 16, 2018 14:47

I would argue, and assume, they'll steer clear of most Lindsey led songs. There's only a few that are so solely him anyway: Monday Morning, I'm So Afraid, Secondhand News, Never Going Back Again, Go Your Own Way, and thats about it. Some others are his songs but he's not the dominant force or I could see them getting away with it, like Tusk which is essentially a group spectacle effort live, or Don't Stop since Christine sings half and could sing the whole thing, or the Chain where he's one of many voices. But stuff like Never Going Back Again and Big Love are essentially solo songs that they can fill. They can find a different song to highlight the guitars than I'm So Afraid. Go Your Own Way is the only one you really HAVE to play IMO.

Re: OT:Fleetwood Mac Fires Lindsey Buckingham
Posted by: Healy52003 ()
Date: April 16, 2018 16:20

saw them in 2015 for the first time (going in not knowing many of there songs) and really enjoyed it.

When they announce there tour dates it will still sell well as casual fans might not know that Buckingham is gone etc. Personally prob wont go and see them as Buckingham was my favourite member. Stevie, Christine and John can still do there bit and Mick can do his' dont be shy' drum solo. Dont knw much about Mike Campbell or Neil Finn. I wonder are they going back to the pre stevie days a bit for this tour and do the Peter Green stuff (which was not that bad at all)

Ive heard stories about Buckingham like before concerts hes gets his roadies to go out and give wrist bands to blonde girls and gets them to stand at the front of the stage in his area. Id say that holding hands shit himself and Stevie done was all for show

Re: OT:Fleetwood Mac Fires Lindsey Buckingham
Date: April 16, 2018 16:27

Quote
Healy52003
saw them in 2015 for the first time (going in not knowing many of there songs) and really enjoyed it.

When they announce there tour dates it will still sell well as casual fans might not know that Buckingham is gone etc. Personally prob wont go and see them as Buckingham was my favourite member. Stevie, Christine and John can still do there bit and Mick can do his' dont be shy' drum solo. Dont knw much about Mike Campbell or Neil Finn. I wonder are they going back to the pre stevie days a bit for this tour and do the Peter Green stuff (which was not that bad at all)

Ive heard stories about Buckingham like before concerts hes gets his roadies to go out and give wrist bands to blonde girls and gets them to stand at the front of the stage in his area. Id say that holding hands shit himself and Stevie done was all for show

That's the understatement of the year grinning smiley

Re: OT:Fleetwood Mac Fires Lindsey Buckingham
Posted by: Jah Paul ()
Date: April 16, 2018 20:04

Quote
Healy52003
I wonder are they going back to the pre stevie days a bit for this tour and do the Peter Green stuff (which was not that bad at all)

Possibly...but they'll mostly like opt for "Stop Draggin' My Heart Around" (as a tribute to Petty and co-written by Campbell), the return of Stevie's "Stand Back" (part of the FM set for years but not played last tour), and "Don't Dream It's Over" (gotta let Finn sing one of his own tunes, right?)

Re: OT:Fleetwood Mac Fires Lindsey Buckingham
Posted by: marianna ()
Date: April 16, 2018 21:32

They still only have that penguin picture on their homepage. Maybe the previous speculation on this thread is right, that the new replacements are a trial balloon. If promoters and fans can't get behind the idea, or at least not for large venues, it might not happen. Lindsey is managed by Irving Azoff, who put the band back in stadiums with the East-West shows. The rest of the band has other management. Maybe negotiations will still happen. It's getting late to announce a summer tour

Re: OT:Fleetwood Mac Fires Lindsey Buckingham
Posted by: dadrob ()
Date: April 16, 2018 23:14

maybe they will play the material from the Rick Vitto Dave Mason Bonnie Bramblett era. no one recalls that version of the band but I do since they did some of the real early stuff.

Re: OT:Fleetwood Mac Fires Lindsey Buckingham
Posted by: RollingFreak ()
Date: April 17, 2018 01:48

Quote
marianna
They still only have that penguin picture on their homepage. Maybe the previous speculation on this thread is right, that the new replacements are a trial balloon. If promoters and fans can't get behind the idea, or at least not for large venues, it might not happen. Lindsey is managed by Irving Azoff, who put the band back in stadiums with the East-West shows. The rest of the band has other management. Maybe negotiations will still happen. It's getting late to announce a summer tour

My thoughts are also pure speculation but I think thats totally off. But thats also because I thought the Eagles wouldn't succeed and it did. If they can do it I don't see how FM wouldn't also do well. I get it, the Eagles had Glenn's son and Vince Neil so it was "heartfelt" and a solid replacement with his own fans. They also got bad feedback initially, and then everyone went. Fleetwood Mac with Stevie and Mike Campbell replacing should get more than enough support. Easily playing arenas in all the major markets. A couple years ago I would have maybe said different, but people have accepted way less and this isn't a bad scenario. It might not be enviable, and I'd consider it dumb at this stage, but it would hardly be a "bad" show. I don't see why people wouldn't go just cause its most of Fleetwood Mac.

Re: OT:Fleetwood Mac Fires Lindsey Buckingham
Posted by: Hairball ()
Date: April 25, 2018 00:50

Fleetwood Mac News

Don't know which band members will appear, but:

Coming Up on CBS THIS MORNING - Fleetwood Mac April 25, 2018 with Anthony Mason
"Hopefully Anthony Mason can shed some light on what broke the chain when he sits down with Fleetwood Mac on CBS This Morning Wednesday, April 25, 2018".

--------------------------------
"Rip this joint, gonna save your soul..."

Re: OT:Fleetwood Mac Fires Lindsey Buckingham
Posted by: TeddyB1018 ()
Date: April 25, 2018 03:23

Quote
marianna
They still only have that penguin picture on their homepage. Maybe the previous speculation on this thread is right, that the new replacements are a trial balloon. If promoters and fans can't get behind the idea, or at least not for large venues, it might not happen. Lindsey is managed by Irving Azoff, who put the band back in stadiums with the East-West shows. The rest of the band has other management. Maybe negotiations will still happen. It's getting late to announce a summer tour

Irving has sided with the band against Lindsey.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-04-25 10:22 by TeddyB1018.

Re: OT:Fleetwood Mac Fires Lindsey Buckingham
Posted by: marianna ()
Date: April 25, 2018 08:07

I've been reading a couple of threads on "The Ledge" Mac message board. There are some references there to Lindsey being dropped by Irving, but no one seems to know the timing of that.

I confess to not being much of a Fleetwood fan, but some of their music is okay. I prefer their pre-Buckingham/Nicks music.

Re: OT:Fleetwood Mac Fires Lindsey Buckingham
Posted by: BowieStone ()
Date: April 25, 2018 08:22

Quote
RollingFreak
Quote
marianna
They still only have that penguin picture on their homepage. Maybe the previous speculation on this thread is right, that the new replacements are a trial balloon. If promoters and fans can't get behind the idea, or at least not for large venues, it might not happen. Lindsey is managed by Irving Azoff, who put the band back in stadiums with the East-West shows. The rest of the band has other management. Maybe negotiations will still happen. It's getting late to announce a summer tour

My thoughts are also pure speculation but I think thats totally off. But thats also because I thought the Eagles wouldn't succeed and it did. If they can do it I don't see how FM wouldn't also do well. I get it, the Eagles had Glenn's son and Vince Neil so it was "heartfelt" and a solid replacement with his own fans. They also got bad feedback initially, and then everyone went. Fleetwood Mac with Stevie and Mike Campbell replacing should get more than enough support. Easily playing arenas in all the major markets. A couple years ago I would have maybe said different, but people have accepted way less and this isn't a bad scenario. It might not be enviable, and I'd consider it dumb at this stage, but it would hardly be a "bad" show. I don't see why people wouldn't go just cause its most of Fleetwood Mac.

He's tryin to get the Eagles to play Girls Girls Girls and Shout at The Devil.

Re: OT:Fleetwood Mac Fires Lindsey Buckingham
Posted by: triceratops ()
Date: April 25, 2018 08:41

Quote
marianna
I've been reading a couple of threads on "The Ledge" Mac message board. There are some references there to Lindsey being dropped by Irving, but no one seems to know the timing of that.
Are you sure that not the Fairport Convention message board?
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