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LieB
Interestingly, Aerosmith's Pump album had less contributions from outside songwriters than both its predecessor Permanent Vacation and its successor Get A Grip had -- while also having more creds to Whitford and Hamilton -- and guess what -- it's a better album too.
Their last album could have been more like that, had they dropped like half of the songs from it...
Yeah, A&R guru John Kalodner played a huge role in making Aerosmith a hit-making machine again in the mid '80s.Quote
Dan
Geffen made a very large investment in resurrecting Aerosmith and they expected a return on that investment and that means they need hits with songs and more importantly music videos that appeal to much younger demographic.
Now the Stones have always appealed to young people but that's more the tongue log o and the strength of the older songs.
At least when Virgin signed them in 1991, they got the rights to reissue the older material. By 1994 when Voodoo Lounge came out, with a few exceptions the 1980's phenomenon of older acts having much bigger hits in the MTV era had mostly worn off. So hit doctors probably wouldn't have done much more for Voodoo Lounge and Bridges To Babylon.
I think you can make a distinction between what you're bringing up above and what Aerosmith did.Quote
mr_dja
Of the people who are criticizing acts who use outside writers, how many disavow the majority of Motown's output? Are Muddy Water's "Hoochie Coochie Man" and "I Just Want to Make Love to You" illegitimate because they were written by Willie Dixon?
Peace,
Mr DJA
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mr_dja
Of the people who are criticizing acts who use outside writers, how many disavow the majority of Motown's output? Are Muddy Water's "Hoochie Coochie Man" and "I Just Want to Make Love to You" illegitimate because they were written by Willie Dixon?
Peace,
Mr DJA
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keefriffhard4life
whats never clear is were the songwriters fixing songs aerosmith was already writing or were they giving areosmith songs pretty much already written
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DandelionPowdermanQuote
keefriffhard4life
whats never clear is were the songwriters fixing songs aerosmith was already writing or were they giving areosmith songs pretty much already written
Paul Stanley was pretty open in his bio, about how he sat down and wrote songs together with Child.
If I should guess, I'd say that Aerosmith presented their stuff and that the hit doctors took it from there.
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keefriff99I think you can make a distinction between what you're bringing up above and what Aerosmith did.Quote
mr_dja
Of the people who are criticizing acts who use outside writers, how many disavow the majority of Motown's output? Are Muddy Water's "Hoochie Coochie Man" and "I Just Want to Make Love to You" illegitimate because they were written by Willie Dixon?
Peace,
Mr DJA
It's about precedent. Motown singers, and guys like Frank Sinatra and Tony Bennett, didn't write their own material, and it was never an issue.
The whole singer/songwriter thing became a big deal in the '60s...artists like the Beatles, the Stones, Dylan, etc. became famous as both performers and talented songwriters.
Aerosmith wrote great songs on their own for over a decade, so they established a precedent as a rock'n'roll band with real songwriting chops. To bring in professional hit makers later in their career smacks a bit of desperation.
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DandelionPowdermanQuote
keefriffhard4life
whats never clear is were the songwriters fixing songs aerosmith was already writing or were they giving areosmith songs pretty much already written
Paul Stanley was pretty open in his bio, about how he sat down and wrote songs together with Child.
If I should guess, I'd say that Aerosmith presented their stuff and that the hit doctors took it from there.
Oh, it's certainly both. I'm not really begrudging the decision TOO much, as I like the albums a lot.Quote
mr_djaQuote
keefriff99I think you can make a distinction between what you're bringing up above and what Aerosmith did.Quote
mr_dja
Of the people who are criticizing acts who use outside writers, how many disavow the majority of Motown's output? Are Muddy Water's "Hoochie Coochie Man" and "I Just Want to Make Love to You" illegitimate because they were written by Willie Dixon?
Peace,
Mr DJA
It's about precedent. Motown singers, and guys like Frank Sinatra and Tony Bennett, didn't write their own material, and it was never an issue.
The whole singer/songwriter thing became a big deal in the '60s...artists like the Beatles, the Stones, Dylan, etc. became famous as both performers and talented songwriters.
Aerosmith wrote great songs on their own for over a decade, so they established a precedent as a rock'n'roll band with real songwriting chops. To bring in professional hit makers later in their career smacks a bit of desperation.
Could it also be possible that what you view as desperation could have been viewed by someone else as a savvy business decision?
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keefriff99Oh, it's certainly both. I'm not really begrudging the decision TOO much, as I like the albums a lot.Quote
mr_djaQuote
keefriff99I think you can make a distinction between what you're bringing up above and what Aerosmith did.Quote
mr_dja
Of the people who are criticizing acts who use outside writers, how many disavow the majority of Motown's output? Are Muddy Water's "Hoochie Coochie Man" and "I Just Want to Make Love to You" illegitimate because they were written by Willie Dixon?
Peace,
Mr DJA
It's about precedent. Motown singers, and guys like Frank Sinatra and Tony Bennett, didn't write their own material, and it was never an issue.
The whole singer/songwriter thing became a big deal in the '60s...artists like the Beatles, the Stones, Dylan, etc. became famous as both performers and talented songwriters.
Aerosmith wrote great songs on their own for over a decade, so they established a precedent as a rock'n'roll band with real songwriting chops. To bring in professional hit makers later in their career smacks a bit of desperation.
Could it also be possible that what you view as desperation could have been viewed by someone else as a savvy business decision?
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DandelionPowderman
So what did Andrew write on Dandelion, Carpet? What about Lady Jane? Midnight Rambler?
I think you over-estimate the producers a bit here, although they certainly came up with some good ideas on some songs.
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matxilQuote
Send It To me
Reading Joe Perry's book now which is very good and I recommend. They began with Tyler/Perry on most song but in the 80's brought in outside songwriters to assist and were able to sell many millions of records on big hits late in their career from '87 to '01. Do you think Mick and Keith could/should have helped the Stones continue to have to hits by bringing in songwriting collaborators during the 80's and 90's? Did their ego as songwriters hold back the band? Or do you prefer the purity of Jagger/Richards? Heck, even Jagger/Richards/Woods was taken away - Ronnie probably could've helped. For what it's worth, I really like Steel Wheels, Voodoo, Bridges, and Bang, but in terms of reaching the non-hardcore fans in the wider world....
Interesting. That sort of explains why in the 90s the Aerosmith came out with a string of songs like "Amaaazing", "Craaaazy", "Cryyyying", all following the same lameness. I never knew that they used outside songwriters but it explains a lot.
I still liked their album "Pump" but everything that came after that was not very good and certainly way below their level in the 70s.
I've seen people claim that...makes no sense to me. All three songs are unique in sound.Quote
keefriffhard4life
why do people think the 3 big ballads from get a grip sound the same? crazy is very mellow sounding compared to crying
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keefriff99I've seen people claim that...makes no sense to me. All three songs are unique in sound.Quote
keefriffhard4life
why do people think the 3 big ballads from get a grip sound the same? crazy is very mellow sounding compared to crying
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gotdablouse
You gotta do what you gotta do...what was more painful to read in Perry's book was that Tyler refused to write songs with him and instead took off with one of the hit doctors whose name escapes me now (Marti Frederikson possibly) imagine Mick doing that to Keith...
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DandelionPowdermanQuote
keefriff99I've seen people claim that...makes no sense to me. All three songs are unique in sound.Quote
keefriffhard4life
why do people think the 3 big ballads from get a grip sound the same? crazy is very mellow sounding compared to crying
They're referring to Steven's intonation in the choruses, I guess, but I don't agree, as these songs are different.
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mr_dja
Of the people who are criticizing acts who use outside writers, how many disavow the majority of Motown's output? Are Muddy Water's "Hoochie Coochie Man" and "I Just Want to Make Love to You" illegitimate because they were written by Willie Dixon?
Peace,
Mr DJA
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keefriff99I've seen people claim that...makes no sense to me. All three songs are unique in sound.Quote
keefriffhard4life
why do people think the 3 big ballads from get a grip sound the same? crazy is very mellow sounding compared to crying
I guess, but Crylin' starts with heavy drums and electric guitar, Crazy has mandolin and harmonica, and Amazing has strings and piano. The choruses are all sung similarly, but other than that...Quote
GasLightStreetQuote
keefriff99I've seen people claim that...makes no sense to me. All three songs are unique in sound.Quote
keefriffhard4life
why do people think the 3 big ballads from get a grip sound the same? crazy is very mellow sounding compared to crying
They all have the same melody.
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keefriff99I guess, but Crylin' starts with heavy drums and electric guitar, Crazy has mandolin and harmonica, and Amazing has strings and piano. The choruses are all sung similarly, but other than that...Quote
GasLightStreetQuote
keefriff99I've seen people claim that...makes no sense to me. All three songs are unique in sound.Quote
keefriffhard4life
why do people think the 3 big ballads from get a grip sound the same? crazy is very mellow sounding compared to crying
They all have the same melody.
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DandelionPowdermanQuote
keefriff99I guess, but Crylin' starts with heavy drums and electric guitar, Crazy has mandolin and harmonica, and Amazing has strings and piano. The choruses are all sung similarly, but other than that...Quote
GasLightStreetQuote
keefriff99I've seen people claim that...makes no sense to me. All three songs are unique in sound.Quote
keefriffhard4life
why do people think the 3 big ballads from get a grip sound the same? crazy is very mellow sounding compared to crying
They all have the same melody.
Cryin' has harmonica, too