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Re: Keith Richards guitar playing comments
Posted by: laertisflash ()
Date: October 6, 2017 18:56

"Like back in 19981"...

I meant 1981, of course...

Re: Keith Richards guitar playing comments
Posted by: laertisflash ()
Date: October 6, 2017 19:00

"I did not have seen them this tour (I am waiting for Paris x 3 - in the pit)"

Then see you there, RiffKichards! I am waiting for the third Paris gig.

Re: Keith Richards guitar playing comments
Posted by: wonderboy ()
Date: October 6, 2017 19:12

I think at the beginning of the tour there was real fear that Keith might not be up for this, that he might fall apart before our eyes.
I think that fear has been dispelled and we can enjoy the show, the good and the bad.

Re: Keith Richards guitar playing comments
Posted by: stone4ever ()
Date: October 6, 2017 19:36

Quote
wonderboy
I think at the beginning of the tour there was real fear that Keith might not be up for this, that he might fall apart before our eyes.
I think that fear has been dispelled and we can enjoy the show, the good and the bad.

thumbs up

Re: Keith Richards guitar playing comments
Posted by: EJM ()
Date: October 6, 2017 20:00

thumbs up

Re: Keith Richards guitar playing comments
Posted by: EJM ()
Date: October 6, 2017 20:00

thumbs up

Re: Keith Richards guitar playing comments
Posted by: Hairball ()
Date: October 6, 2017 20:08

Quote
stone4ever
Quote
keefriff99
I don't understand why it's so hard to express a nuanced view around here. You're either pigeon-holed into expressing one of two thoughts:

"Keith can't play anymore and is at death's door."

or

"Keith is ripping it up like it's 1989 again."

It seems those of us trying to express a middle opinion automatically get shoved to one or the other extremes by angry people who don't want to understand where we're coming from.

Best post I read in ages

Indeed it seems that way sometimes, but not always.

Quote
stone4ever
Quote
wonderboy
I think at the beginning of the tour there was real fear that Keith might not be up for this, that he might fall apart before our eyes.
I think that fear has been dispelled and we can enjoy the show, the good and the bad.

thumbs up


Amen. Seems this has been the case the last several tours and not just with Keith...sometimes the entire band as a whole is under scrutiny.
It's always exciting when a new tour is announced and anticipation leading to the first shows, but then the questions start to arise...can the still function properly as a band? Given a few hiccups here and there (first night jitters, etc.)they seem to always work out the kinks rise to the occasion as best they can and that's what's magical and miraculous. Are they always perfect? Obviously not, never were and never will be, but the fact they're still rolling at this late stage is reason enough to tip your hat.

But seeing as this is a discussion board, seems only fair to be able to discuss and critique all of the miniscule nuaances of a show (as long as it's not malicious and repetitive troll-like hatred), and many times it comes from a personal perspective and is subjective so there's no point in arguing about it. Other times it's an absolute fact that everyone can agree with - ie Keith badly screwing up the intro to Brown Sugar at whatever show that was (?).

Looking forward to what they bring us at Dusseldorf as well as the rest of the tour, and then the follow up dissection (or discussion) - whether it be praiseworthy or critical.

Keep on trolling...I mean KEEP ON ROLLING...winking smiley

.
_____________________________________________________________
Nothing to do, nowhere to go...you're talkin' to people that you don't know....

Re: Keith Richards guitar playing comments
Posted by: Hairball ()
Date: October 6, 2017 20:28

PS to the above:

It's clear that even with the most level headed here, debates can get a little heated when pleading one's case (opinions and expectations, etc.). I've been guilty of that, and apologize to anyone who I may have crossed in the past. In light of the reality of the real world out there and all it's problems, seems trivial to get overly passionate about a Stones show. As has been said a million times, 'it's only rock and roll' and we all have a common bond with our love of the Stones. Better to have fun here than to get nasty and personal...there's already too much of that sh*t happening out there.

Keep on rolling...thumbs up

.
_____________________________________________________________
Nothing to do, nowhere to go...you're talkin' to people that you don't know....

Re: Keith Richards guitar playing comments
Posted by: TheBlockbuster ()
Date: October 6, 2017 20:46

Quote
laertisflash
"I think the best would be if he went back to the ''clean'' sound he had on the licks-tour, then at least the mistakes wouldn't hurt everyone's ears so much"

What Blockbuster says is a stimulus for some thoughts and remembering...

Back in 2003 Keith did some mistakes which could be covered by no one and nothing - band's member or sound's type. And the reason was simple: He often screwed up the intro of Brown Sugar that was opener song, then. He messed up very badly the opening riffs at Stockholm Stadion, at Amsterdam Arena, at Stade de France and, if memory helps, in 3-4 additional cases. But we had NOT discussions about "Keith being unable to play guitar anymore", then.

On the current tour Keith botched once the intro of a song that is sporadically played, like "Beast Of Burden" and, for an week or so, we had serious bouts of hysteria here...

Back in 2003, in Prague, Keith started Midnight Rambler with the riff of Tumblin Dice. For everyone it was a funny fact. He just forgot the exact row of the songs.
Nothing less, nothing more. On the current tour, in Barcelona, he forgot that Mick had to introduced "Rocks Of" as the "vote/winner" song of the night and on IORR board some guys seemed prepared to convene an International Conference of Healthcare Professionals, so that we know how fast is Keith "losing his brain"...

Sometimes I think that many guys on the board burden Keith with their own agonies about life, aging, time going past in space.. Just a thought.

You really can't compare Keith in 2003 to Keith now I'm sorry. Yes he screwed up the Brown Sugar intro in 2003 but that's just stage nerves during the first song. Keith was overall excellent in 2003, his solos on SFTD were always great or amazing. Nowadays his solos on SFTD are always bad or painfully bad. It's just the truth and there's really no correlation between Keith screwing up a few intros in 2003 and him making numerous mistakes every show now.

Re: Keith Richards guitar playing comments
Posted by: Hairball ()
Date: October 6, 2017 21:18

Not to take sides, but I fully agree with you TheBlockbuster - 14 years has made a huge difference in his overall playing.

I can't surf with the same style and grace as I did 14 years ago, but I'm still out there doing my best and having fun. If you asked any of my friends, they would say "yeah hairball used to fearlessly shred with the best of them, but today he goes just with the flow in a more casual manner...he plays it safe and get's wiped out more often...more power to him though - he's still out there doing it" And I guarantee that 14 years from now my abilities will have suffered even more, but I'll still be out there doing the best I can (God willing), and my friends will still be cheering me on regardless of the decline in skills - although some will critique me and make sure they're heard loud and clear when I have a nasty wipeout. Cowabunga. winking smiley

.
_____________________________________________________________
Nothing to do, nowhere to go...you're talkin' to people that you don't know....

Re: Keith Richards guitar playing comments
Posted by: MileHigh ()
Date: October 6, 2017 21:49

Well, I was blown away with that 1990 SFTD that someone linked to a page back. About half of the song was Keith soloing and completely dominating. It was amazing to listen to and to watch! Alas, 27 years later is a long time. In fact it's exactly half-way through the Stones career. It's funny because even in 89/90 they were "pretty old."

I saw an interview with Keith were he said in the 2007-2012 stretch he went for years without picking up a guitar. I know that there are some people that are "dazzled" for lack of a better term, but I think most of us are more realistic. The sun never sets on the British Empire but the Rolling Stones ain't the British Empire.

Re: Keith Richards guitar playing comments
Posted by: laertisflash ()
Date: October 6, 2017 22:51

You missed the point Blockbuster. I didn't compere Keith performances of today and of the past. I just noted the big difference between the criterion of some fans. As for his musical mistakes, as for other mistakes too (forgetting which song they have to play, etc). You say: "Yes he screwed up the Brown Sugar intro in 2003 but that's just stage nerves during the first song". And I say: You have right, but 10 years later, when he screwed up the SMU intro at Hyde Park, many fans considered the fact ITSELF as the end of the world. I hope is clear what I'm saying.

BTW, overall speaking, Keith was better in 2003, Ronnie is better now compered to his performances during the European leg of Licks Tour, but... But the particular leg did bequeath a needle to me, as for my Stones experiences. Amsterdam Arena, August 19... The weakest Stones gig I have attended in my life. The only Stones gig I would rate 5/10... All the others vary from "much more than decent" to "stellar".

Re: Keith Richards guitar playing comments
Posted by: TheBlockbuster ()
Date: October 6, 2017 23:09

Quote
laertisflash
You missed the point Blockbuster. I didn't compere Keith performances of today and of the past. I just noted the big difference between the criterion of some fans. As for his musical mistakes, as for other mistakes too (forgetting which song they have to play, etc). You say: "Yes he screwed up the Brown Sugar intro in 2003 but that's just stage nerves during the first song". And I say: You have right, but 10 years later, when he screwed up the SMU intro at Hyde Park, many fans considered the fact ITSELF as the end of the world. I hope is clear what I'm saying.

BTW, overall speaking, Keith was better in 2003, Ronnie is better now compered to his performances during the European leg of Licks Tour, but... But the particular leg did bequeath a needle to me, as for my Stones experiences. Amsterdam Arena, August 19... The weakest Stones gig I have attended in my life. The only Stones gig I would rate 5/10... All the others vary from "much more than decent" to "stellar".

You have a point about the Amsterdam show, it really was a mess even though I didn't attend it (just listened to the bootleg). Keith messed up Brown Sugar and not long after Mick started to get problems with his voice and couldn't hit any high notes at all. It was filmed and meant to be televised later on all over Europe but that never happened.

Keith is not as terrible these days as some say, he does just enough for the most part, but it's very evident that's he's making a LOT of mistakes every show and I think it's mostly because of him never practicing guitar anymore.

Re: Keith Richards guitar playing comments
Date: October 6, 2017 23:38

I wonder what some of you mean with "messed up"?

In Amsterdam, Keith missed one hit in his riff after playing it flawlessly on the first round.

That's not to mess up a song.

Re: Keith Richards guitar playing comments
Posted by: retired_dog ()
Date: October 6, 2017 23:50

Quote
DandelionPowderman
I wonder what some of you mean with "messed up"?

In Amsterdam, Keith missed one hit in his riff after playing it flawlessly on the first round.

That's not to mess up a song.

Bound for earning the title "Keith's Main Defender", right?

Re: Keith Richards guitar playing comments
Posted by: stone4ever ()
Date: October 7, 2017 00:35

Quote
MileHigh
Well, I was blown away with that 1990 SFTD that someone linked to a page back. About half of the song was Keith soloing and completely dominating. It was amazing to listen to and to watch! Alas, 27 years later is a long time. In fact it's exactly half-way through the Stones career. It's funny because even in 89/90 they were "pretty old."

I saw an interview with Keith were he said in the 2007-2012 stretch he went for years without picking up a guitar. I know that there are some people that are "dazzled" for lack of a better term, but I think most of us are more realistic. The sun never sets on the British Empire but the Rolling Stones ain't the British Empire.

It was me mile high, this one from 89' is just as good. He hit this sort of level in his playing regularly at this point.
[www.youtube.com]

Re: Keith Richards guitar playing comments
Posted by: TheBlockbuster ()
Date: October 7, 2017 00:51

Quote
DandelionPowderman
I wonder what some of you mean with "messed up"?

In Amsterdam, Keith missed one hit in his riff after playing it flawlessly on the first round.

That's not to mess up a song.

Aren't you thinking about Amsterdam 2017 now? I was talking about the Amsterdam concert in 2003.

Re: Keith Richards guitar playing comments
Posted by: Hairball ()
Date: October 7, 2017 00:56

Quote
TheBlockbuster
Quote
laertisflash
You missed the point Blockbuster. I didn't compere Keith performances of today and of the past. I just noted the big difference between the criterion of some fans. As for his musical mistakes, as for other mistakes too (forgetting which song they have to play, etc). You say: "Yes he screwed up the Brown Sugar intro in 2003 but that's just stage nerves during the first song". And I say: You have right, but 10 years later, when he screwed up the SMU intro at Hyde Park, many fans considered the fact ITSELF as the end of the world. I hope is clear what I'm saying.

BTW, overall speaking, Keith was better in 2003, Ronnie is better now compered to his performances during the European leg of Licks Tour, but... But the particular leg did bequeath a needle to me, as for my Stones experiences. Amsterdam Arena, August 19... The weakest Stones gig I have attended in my life. The only Stones gig I would rate 5/10... All the others vary from "much more than decent" to "stellar".

You have a point about the Amsterdam show, it really was a mess even though I didn't attend it (just listened to the bootleg). Keith messed up Brown Sugar and not long after Mick started to get problems with his voice and couldn't hit any high notes at all. It was filmed and meant to be televised later on all over Europe but that never happened.

Keith is not as terrible these days as some say, he does just enough for the most part, but it's very evident that's he's making a LOT of mistakes every show and I think it's mostly because of him never practicing guitar anymore.

I was at that Amsterdam show - it was the only show of that tour I chose the really cheap route and opted for terrible seats near the top of the "canyon" about 2/3rds of the way back from the stage. Add to the fact I was a bit travel weary at that show in the midst of a seven week journey, and I wouldn't have known if it was a great show or a bad show. Having only listened to a boot maybe once or twice right after the fact, the only real memory I have is the fact I was there somewhere in the clouds looking down across the sea of people. That said, it must have been fun being there (just as all Stones shows are), no matter how crappy the performances was. Will revisit the boot soon and see if I can hear myself cheering or booing from up in the rafters lol.

.
_____________________________________________________________
Nothing to do, nowhere to go...you're talkin' to people that you don't know....

Re: Keith Richards guitar playing comments
Posted by: MileHigh ()
Date: October 7, 2017 01:08

Quote
stone4ever
Quote
MileHigh
Well, I was blown away with that 1990 SFTD that someone linked to a page back. About half of the song was Keith soloing and completely dominating. It was amazing to listen to and to watch! Alas, 27 years later is a long time. In fact it's exactly half-way through the Stones career. It's funny because even in 89/90 they were "pretty old."

I saw an interview with Keith were he said in the 2007-2012 stretch he went for years without picking up a guitar. I know that there are some people that are "dazzled" for lack of a better term, but I think most of us are more realistic. The sun never sets on the British Empire but the Rolling Stones ain't the British Empire.

It was me mile high, this one from 89' is just as good. He hit this sort of level in his playing regularly at this point.
[www.youtube.com]

Thanks for both links. I love the story behind that show. Apparently it was whipped up at the last minute after the Steel Wheels tour was officially over. I saw the clip where they said they negotiated the deal with Donald Trump because it was his venue at the time. And then about a month later it was aired on ordinary TV for free, a real surprise. Everything was a surprise back then because there was no Internet. When I went to the show I had no idea what to expect for the stage setup and it was striking. It was so unbelievably huge! Those days of surprise and innocence are sadly over but of course now we have new things to amuse ourselves with!

Re: Keith Richards guitar playing comments
Date: October 7, 2017 01:22

Quote
TheBlockbuster
Quote
DandelionPowderman
I wonder what some of you mean with "messed up"?

In Amsterdam, Keith missed one hit in his riff after playing it flawlessly on the first round.

That's not to mess up a song.

Aren't you thinking about Amsterdam 2017 now? I was talking about the Amsterdam concert in 2003.

Ah, gotcha!

Re: Keith Richards guitar playing comments
Posted by: Testify ()
Date: October 7, 2017 02:20

My view is that unfortunately Keith today has many limits, all musicians can make mistakes, but if you often do it is because there is something wrong with it.

Re: Keith Richards guitar playing comments
Posted by: z ()
Date: October 7, 2017 07:56

Quote
Hairball
Not to take sides, but I fully agree with you TheBlockbuster - 14 years has made a huge difference in his overall playing.

I can't surf with the same style and grace as I did 14 years ago, but I'm still out there doing my best and having fun. If you asked any of my friends, they would say "yeah hairball used to fearlessly shred with the best of them, but today he goes just with the flow in a more casual manner...he plays it safe and get's wiped out more often...more power to him though - he's still out there doing it" And I guarantee that 14 years from now my abilities will have suffered even more, but I'll still be out there doing the best I can (God willing), and my friends will still be cheering me on regardless of the decline in skills - although some will critique me and make sure they're heard loud and clear when I have a nasty wipeout. Cowabunga. winking smiley

At least no one would notice you pissing your bathing suit.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2017-10-07 07:58 by z.

Re: Keith Richards guitar playing comments
Posted by: Hairball ()
Date: October 7, 2017 08:34

Quote
z
Quote
Hairball
Not to take sides, but I fully agree with you TheBlockbuster - 14 years has made a huge difference in his overall playing.

I can't surf with the same style and grace as I did 14 years ago, but I'm still out there doing my best and having fun. If you asked any of my friends, they would say "yeah hairball used to fearlessly shred with the best of them, but today he goes just with the flow in a more casual manner...he plays it safe and get's wiped out more often...more power to him though - he's still out there doing it" And I guarantee that 14 years from now my abilities will have suffered even more, but I'll still be out there doing the best I can (God willing), and my friends will still be cheering me on regardless of the decline in skills - although some will critique me and make sure they're heard loud and clear when I have a nasty wipeout. Cowabunga. winking smiley

At least no one would notice you pissing your bathing suit.

Lol ...

That little mishap with Keith seems like a distant memory now, and thankfully hasn't happened again!

______________________________________________________________________

This is me 40 years from now...



No more waves but I'm still standing and smiling, and the chicks still dig me! grinning smiley

.
_____________________________________________________________
Nothing to do, nowhere to go...you're talkin' to people that you don't know....

Re: Keith Richards guitar playing comments
Date: October 7, 2017 09:17

Quote
retired_dog
Quote
DandelionPowderman
I wonder what some of you mean with "messed up"?

In Amsterdam, Keith missed one hit in his riff after playing it flawlessly on the first round.

That's not to mess up a song.

Bound for earning the title "Keith's Main Defender", right?

That one's taken smiling smiley

I was thinking of the wrong BS.

Re: Keith Richards guitar playing comments
Posted by: MizzAmandaJonez ()
Date: October 7, 2017 09:42

Spot on:

"it's mostly because of him never practicing guitar anymore"

Adding age and a few other variables...

Its gets better every show, with some changes show by show more subtle, but if this was a 40 show tour, he'd be in prime shape by show #30...

Re: Keith Richards guitar playing comments
Posted by: stone4ever ()
Date: October 7, 2017 11:38

Quote
MizzAmandaJonez
Spot on:

"it's mostly because of him never practicing guitar anymore"

Adding age and a few other variables...

Its gets better every show, with some changes show by show more subtle, but if this was a 40 show tour, he'd be in prime shape by show #30...

This.

Plus of course don't forget the Stones only play an average of 2 shows a week now. That makes it more difficult for a player like Keith to become fluent and practiced. I am confident that by Paris we will have a passable performance from Keith, meaning the show will be more comfortable and enjoyable to watch and hear.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2017-10-07 11:47 by stone4ever.

Re: Keith Richards guitar playing comments
Posted by: Eleanor Rigby ()
Date: October 7, 2017 12:18

Quote
stone4ever
Quote
MizzAmandaJonez
Spot on:

"it's mostly because of him never practicing guitar anymore"

Adding age and a few other variables...

Its gets better every show, with some changes show by show more subtle, but if this was a 40 show tour, he'd be in prime shape by show #30...

This.

Plus of course don't forget the Stones only play an average of 2 shows a week now. That makes it more difficult for a player like Keith to become fluent and practiced. I am confident that by Paris we will have a passable performance from Keith, meaning the show will be more comfortable and enjoyable to watch and hear.

So we let KR "practise" throughout the tour now rather than beforehand?
I think that is such a slap in the face to all the people who go see the shows - and pay huge money.
Get your sh**t together well before you tour Keith! Practise like hell so you put on a great show from the start.
But you are right - he probably doesnt practise much...he knows all the adoring fans will pay huge $$ to just see him on stage without the care if he is actually playing very well. He is Keith Richards afterall...the greatest...He knows it - the diehards love him regardless.

Re: Keith Richards guitar playing comments
Posted by: Redhotcarpet ()
Date: October 7, 2017 13:23

His sound is great on this tour. I love it.

I still say he seems detached, not always, but a bit too late, as if he occasionally has to remind himself of what to play. Insecure maybe. Like he's revisiting songs he doesnt feel connected to anymore. Maybe he moved on.

"I took Ry Cooder for everything I could get" - Keith Richards
"We took Keith Richards for everything we could get" - guitar players of IORR.

Re: Keith Richards guitar playing comments
Posted by: beachbreak ()
Date: October 7, 2017 16:59

He was tearing up his solo on SFTD 1989.

Back then, I never looked at him as a "lead" guitarist, especially after Mick Taylor joined the band, but that was good!

Re: Keith Richards guitar playing comments
Posted by: nikola0406 ()
Date: October 7, 2017 17:04

Quote
Eleanor Rigby

Spot on: He is Keith Richards afterall...the greatest...He knows it - the diehards love him regardless.

Yes.

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