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Re: Keith Richards guitar playing comments
Posted by: beachbreak ()
Date: October 5, 2017 20:10

Quote
Keith's solo on SFTD for me now is sad - if he would just play it in the right key is all I ask. But Keith never really replicated his solo from YA YAS all these years.

Trust me, Keith could play it at the 12th root fret, notes straight out of the minor pentatonic scale like the original, and sound great.

He likes to noodle and change it up.

It's like you look at a picture of yourself from the 80's, would you still wear you're hair like that?

It's Rock and Roll and for the past decade, Keith is more into the "ROLL".

Re: Keith Richards guitar playing comments
Posted by: Leonioid ()
Date: October 5, 2017 20:35

Quote
keefriff99
Quote
steverogan
I think at this point, if we're all being honest, we're largely willing to pay just to be in their physical presence for a few hours. Nothing wrong with that...it's truly a thrill to see icons like Mick Jagger and Keith Richards in the flesh in front of your eyes. It's kind of weird when you think about it, but that's the truth.

We're hearing (very) rough approximations of classic songs we all love, but the real thrill is seeing them all together again.

I think that is an accurate representation of the Stones fan now. Well said
You two may think that, but do not imagine or even pretend to speak for most Stones fans or 100s of thousands of concert attendees who are enjoying the great music at the shows being played right now. Based on the posted reviews FROM PEOPLE WHO ARE ACTUALLY THERE, the band still plays very well.

I have heard many of these shows on streams and videos and it sounds good to me.... and I saw live shows 2 years ago and they were GREAT... so this bullsht "just to be in their physical presence for a few hours" makes me roll my eyes.

Re: Keith Richards guitar playing comments
Posted by: laertisflash ()
Date: October 5, 2017 21:47

I'm with Leonioid. Basically I trust my ears. What I heard during the one (so far) gig of the current tour I have attended was pure, powerful rock sound. And I feel a bit tired of all this moaning about "slower tempo". Yes, some songs (not all of them, of course) are played a bit slower. But they 're played well. Personally, I never considered the music as "Formula 1". For example, I prefer the "slow" JJF version of 1969 and from R'n'R Circus, than some subsequent fast song's versions. Under My Thumb from 1981/82 was an absolutely successful fast version IMO, but Satisfaction, on the same tour, sounded very bad in my ears. That was an unsuccessful fast version, for my taste. So, I don't believe that the quality and the strength of live performances are depending on the higher or lower speed.

The band still rocks, the band can still cover up weak moments of one member (as it was happening almost ALWAYS, just remember the times when Ronnie had serious problems). The band is still the epitome of good team work, the band still gives satisfaction, the band still makes happy large audiences, the band still performs for 130 minutes, as it did when the members were 15 - 20 years younger. But I read here some comments more negative than what the huger "hater", out there, could propound. Fine, no problem. Anyone of us is entitled to express what he/she believes.

Re: Keith Richards guitar playing comments
Posted by: jlowe ()
Date: October 5, 2017 22:57

Quote
beachbreak
Quote
Keith's solo on SFTD for me now is sad - if he would just play it in the right key is all I ask. But Keith never really replicated his solo from YA YAS all these years.

Trust me, Keith could play it at the 12th root fret, notes straight out of the minor pentatonic scale like the original, and sound great.

He likes to noodle and change it up.

It's like you look at a picture of yourself from the 80's, would you still wear you're hair like that?

It's Rock and Roll and for the past decade, Keith is more into the "ROLL".

Actually, Mick and Ronnie's hair styles look pretty much the same as in the 1980's.

Re: Keith Richards guitar playing comments
Posted by: Hairball ()
Date: October 5, 2017 22:58

Quote
beachbreak
It's like you look at a picture of yourself from the 80's, would you still wear you're hair like that?

That might be a good question for the "ask Keith" section on his website!
Something tells me he might answer yes...he definitely would if he could.
And I'd probably say yes also - get rid of some of that silver/grey hair I've acquired over the years.
And what about a bald person that only has a few hairs left...more than likely the answer would be YES PLEASE!!!

--------------------------------
"Rip this joint, gonna save your soul..."

Re: Keith Richards guitar playing comments
Posted by: Leonioid ()
Date: October 5, 2017 23:01

Quote
laertisflash
I'm with Leonioid. Basically I trust my ears. What I heard during the one (so far) gig of the current tour I have attended was pure, powerful rock sound.
smileys with beer
Pretty much as simple as that...
Its Only Rock and Roll and The Stones are still rolling and kicking ass!

Re: Keith Richards guitar playing comments
Posted by: stone4ever ()
Date: October 6, 2017 13:05

Quote
OpenG
The talk of Keith letting Ronnie do the solos - Keith is going down with his guitar - When was the last time he gave up a solo live that he always performed? - Way back when MT did the solo I think on Carol on the 72/73 tour.

Keith's solo on SFTD for me now is sad - if he would just play it in the right key
is all I ask. But Keith never really replicated his solo from YA YAS all these years.

I think there are many moments live when Keith has surpassed YA YAS Sympathy solo imho.
[www.youtube.com]

Re: Keith Richards guitar playing comments
Posted by: TheBlockbuster ()
Date: October 6, 2017 13:26

Quote
stone4ever
I think there are many moments live when Keith has surpassed YA YAS Sympathy solo imho.
[www.youtube.com]

Is Keith using some kind of ''touch sensitive'' overdrive pedal here? I'm thinking about the bend he hits at 2:43. Sounds really cool,

Re: Keith Richards guitar playing comments
Posted by: stone4ever ()
Date: October 6, 2017 13:50

Quote
TheBlockbuster
Quote
stone4ever
I think there are many moments live when Keith has surpassed YA YAS Sympathy solo imho.
[www.youtube.com]

Is Keith using some kind of ''touch sensitive'' overdrive pedal here? I'm thinking about the bend he hits at 2:43. Sounds really cool,

Not sure, but i wish he would pick up that guitar and set up again because it worked so well for him. Does a great GS with the same Guitar, OK its played a little too fast but Keith really became a great soloist at this point in time.
[www.youtube.com]

Re: Keith Richards guitar playing comments
Posted by: TheBlockbuster ()
Date: October 6, 2017 14:04

Quote
stone4ever
Quote
TheBlockbuster
Quote
stone4ever
I think there are many moments live when Keith has surpassed YA YAS Sympathy solo imho.
[www.youtube.com]

Is Keith using some kind of ''touch sensitive'' overdrive pedal here? I'm thinking about the bend he hits at 2:43. Sounds really cool,

Not sure, but i wish he would pick up that guitar and set up again because it worked so well for him. Does a great GS with the same Guitar, OK its played a little too fast but Keith really became a great soloist at this point in time.
[www.youtube.com]

His 89/90 sound with lots of delay would probably hide the mistakes a bit better. I mean the sound he's had since 2012 really highlights every mistake he does since it's so naked and trebly. I think the best would be if he went back to the ''clean'' sound he had on the licks-tour, then atleast the mistakes wouldn't hurt everyone's ears so much. grinning smiley

Re: Keith Richards guitar playing comments
Posted by: stone4ever ()
Date: October 6, 2017 14:18

Quote
TheBlockbuster
Quote
stone4ever
Quote
TheBlockbuster
Quote
stone4ever
I think there are many moments live when Keith has surpassed YA YAS Sympathy solo imho.
[www.youtube.com]

Is Keith using some kind of ''touch sensitive'' overdrive pedal here? I'm thinking about the bend he hits at 2:43. Sounds really cool,

Not sure, but i wish he would pick up that guitar and set up again because it worked so well for him. Does a great GS with the same Guitar, OK its played a little too fast but Keith really became a great soloist at this point in time.
[www.youtube.com]

His 89/90 sound with lots of delay would probably hide the mistakes a bit better. I mean the sound he's had since 2012 really highlights every mistake he does since it's so naked and trebly. I think the best would be if he went back to the ''clean'' sound he had on the licks-tour, then atleast the mistakes wouldn't hurt everyone's ears so much. grinning smiley

This is something i think about a lot. I wonder why Keith doesn't use a more forgiving sound with lots of delay. It's as if he doesn't go back to the hotel and ever watch youtube to see what he sounds like. I would imagine a close friend or one of his children would play something back to him, or at least mention that people are discussing his mistakes.
Perhaps no one wants to hurt his feelings, its strange because its as if he doesn't realize he is making these mistakes. If he new he would change his set up, or would he ? Perhaps he loves this sound, he loves being LOUD.

Re: Keith Richards guitar playing comments
Posted by: MartinB ()
Date: October 6, 2017 14:57

Quote
stone4ever
Quote
TheBlockbuster
Quote
stone4ever
Quote
TheBlockbuster
Quote
stone4ever
I think there are many moments live when Keith has surpassed YA YAS Sympathy solo imho.
[www.youtube.com]

Is Keith using some kind of ''touch sensitive'' overdrive pedal here? I'm thinking about the bend he hits at 2:43. Sounds really cool,

Not sure, but i wish he would pick up that guitar and set up again because it worked so well for him. Does a great GS with the same Guitar, OK its played a little too fast but Keith really became a great soloist at this point in time.
[www.youtube.com]

His 89/90 sound with lots of delay would probably hide the mistakes a bit better. I mean the sound he's had since 2012 really highlights every mistake he does since it's so naked and trebly. I think the best would be if he went back to the ''clean'' sound he had on the licks-tour, then atleast the mistakes wouldn't hurt everyone's ears so much. grinning smiley

This is something i think about a lot. I wonder why Keith doesn't use a more forgiving sound with lots of delay. It's as if he doesn't go back to the hotel and ever watch youtube to see what he sounds like. I would imagine a close friend or one of his children would play something back to him, or at least mention that people are discussing his mistakes.
Perhaps no one wants to hurt his feelings, its strange because its as if he doesn't realize he is making these mistakes. If he new he would change his set up, or would he ? Perhaps he loves this sound, he loves being LOUD.


Judging from recent interviews and the way Keith comes across in concerts, he is not cognitively impaired. He must know he is making mistakes. He must know that he has simplified his playing (e.g. intro to GS). So the sound must be his deliberate decision. Including the fact that the sound engineers increase the volume when Ronnie or Keith play a solo.

I personally love this strong, clear and sharp sound of their guitars much much better than the 1990 sound.

Re: Keith Richards guitar playing comments
Posted by: MelBelli ()
Date: October 6, 2017 15:05

I’ve been braying about this for weeks. The Les Paul Jr. —> Tweed Twin setup is totally unforgiving, for *any* player. Keith was at the peak of his abilities in his late-40s. We can’t expect him to play as well as he did then. But there are things he can do to ensure a “soft landing,” if you will. He’s doing the exact opposite.

Re: Keith Richards guitar playing comments
Posted by: laertisflash ()
Date: October 6, 2017 15:23

"I think the best would be if he went back to the ''clean'' sound he had on the licks-tour, then at least the mistakes wouldn't hurt everyone's ears so much"

What Blockbuster says is a stimulus for some thoughts and remembering...

Back in 2003 Keith did some mistakes which could be covered by no one and nothing - band's member or sound's type. And the reason was simple: He often screwed up the intro of Brown Sugar that was opener song, then. He messed up very badly the opening riffs at Stockholm Stadion, at Amsterdam Arena, at Stade de France and, if memory helps, in 3-4 additional cases. But we had NOT discussions about "Keith being unable to play guitar anymore", then.

On the current tour Keith botched once the intro of a song that is sporadically played, like "Beast Of Burden" and, for an week or so, we had serious bouts of hysteria here...

Back in 2003, in Prague, Keith started Midnight Rambler with the riff of Tumblin Dice. For everyone it was a funny fact. He just forgot the exact row of the songs.
Nothing less, nothing more. On the current tour, in Barcelona, he forgot that Mick had to introduced "Rocks Of" as the "vote/winner" song of the night and on IORR board some guys seemed prepared to convene an International Conference of Healthcare Professionals, so that we know how fast is Keith "losing his brain"...

Sometimes I think that many guys on the board burden Keith with their own agonies about life, aging, time going past in space.. Just a thought.

Re: Keith Richards guitar playing comments
Posted by: wonderboy ()
Date: October 6, 2017 15:30

I don't know anything about guitars or settings, but whatever Keith is doing is a deliberate, knowing choice, imo.
Say that because a) he likes being loud, b) he likes to present himself just as he is, and mistakes today are just part of who he is now, c) he doesn't like to compromise, d) I think he is playing what he feels but if he can't physically always do what he wants he's OK with that, and e) who's going to tell Keith Richards to turn down or play less! Anyway, I think his bandmates are probably quite happy with him.

Re: Keith Richards guitar playing comments
Date: October 6, 2017 15:49

Let's hear it from one of the Stones's sound engineers, Benjamin Lefevre:





Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2017-10-06 18:41 by DandelionPowderman.

Re: Keith Richards guitar playing comments
Posted by: beachbreak ()
Date: October 6, 2017 15:59

Quote
I personally love this strong, clear and sharp sound of their guitars much much better than the 1990 sound.

Yeah, they sound good but my favorite sound was 1972 when they used those Ampeg stacks.

Re: Keith Richards guitar playing comments
Posted by: Redhotcarpet ()
Date: October 6, 2017 15:59

I can't hear a thing!

Re: Keith Richards guitar playing comments
Date: October 6, 2017 16:03

Quote
beachbreak
Quote
I personally love this strong, clear and sharp sound of their guitars much much better than the 1990 sound.

Yeah, they sound good but my favorite sound was 1972 when they used those Ampeg stacks.

As they did in 1969, 1970, 1971, 1973, 1975 and 1976 (and sometimes in 1978?).

Love the Ampeg! However, I also love the Supreme, the Mesa Boogie and the Twins. Someimes even the other Fender amps, too smiling smiley

Re: Keith Richards guitar playing comments
Posted by: Spud ()
Date: October 6, 2017 16:28

I love the Tweed Twins, cooking just on the edge of break up.

Real dynamics...almost like a big turbo charged acoustic guitar...

....which I sometimes suspect is exactly what Keith's aiming to achieve.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2017-10-06 16:32 by Spud.

Re: Keith Richards guitar playing comments
Posted by: HonkeyTonkFlash ()
Date: October 6, 2017 17:03

I'd been letting a lot of the negative comments here get to me, and having watched a few clips of things that Keith reportedly bungled didn't help. He did bungle some things recently and his SFTD licks were sketchy at best. But I felt the desire to gain some perspective so I found a video of the entire Hamburg concert and watched it to try and gain some context. Now I know a youtube video is no match for being there so I tried to keep that in mind and let my imagination take me from my computer to what it feels like at a live show. Yeah, they were a bit loose and sloppy but I've heard them play like that in their glory days so that was no shock on an opening night. One thing that really struck me was the tangible change in the band when they launched into the two blues numbers. It was as if they went back decades in time and played on instinct with fire and passion. If only they could translate that feeling into their own material, which often sounds like they're just walking through it, which is not a surprise given how many thousands of times they've played these songs. Dancing With Mr. D. was a treat and Under My Thumb was not bad if you you can divorce yourself from memories of how powerful it was in 1981. In short, I found the Stones still sound like the Stones even if a bit more hesitant to cut loose. Keith sometimes sounds like the Keith we love even if he struggles more and wanders a bit. Another thought is how the visuals influence the way we hear things. While watching images on the big screens, one may tend to hear a Keith that sounds as old as he looks. Ronnie, at time looks cadaverous. But then I closed my eyes and just listened...and then I found myself visualizing the Stones as they were much longer ago. When it comes to the sound, they're still the Stones even if Keith is no longer leading the charge with awesome riffage as in times past. Taking in the overall sound and imaging how much more exciting it is to actually be there, they're still the Stones and that's a pretty cool thing.

"Gonna find my way to heaven ..."

Re: Keith Richards guitar playing comments
Posted by: laertisflash ()
Date: October 6, 2017 17:24

Excellent post, HonkeyTonkFlash. Especially these phrases:

"Another thought is how the visuals influence the way we hear things. While watching images on the big screens, one may tend to hear a Keith that sounds as old as he looks. Ronnie, at time looks cadaverous. But then I closed my eyes and just listened...and then I found myself visualizing the Stones as they were much longer ago. When it comes to the sound, they're still the Stones even if Keith is no longer leading the charge with awesome riffage as in times past. Taking in the overall sound and imaging how much more exciting it is to actually be there, they're still the Stones and that's a pretty cool thing."

That's exactly what I wrote a few days ago: Don't judge the whole thing from the factor "how does Keith look and move". Judge it from how they really sound! And yes, they sound as you have described. And, believe me, anyone being there can understand how different, how "full", how stronger the real sound is, compered to the sound coming (?) from the YT clips.

Re: Keith Richards guitar playing comments
Posted by: marcovandereijk ()
Date: October 6, 2017 17:25

So far, more than 500.000 people have visited the No Filter tour. Ask any of them if
he/she enjoyed the show. I think you'll have a hard time finding 1.000 of them who were
not enjoying the show because there were any wrong notes played.

Just as long as the guitar plays, let it steal your heart away

Re: Keith Richards guitar playing comments
Posted by: keefriff99 ()
Date: October 6, 2017 17:37

I don't understand why it's so hard to express a nuanced view around here. You're either pigeon-holed into expressing one of two thoughts:

"Keith can't play anymore and is at death's door."

or

"Keith is ripping it up like it's 1989 again."

It seems those of us trying to express a middle opinion automatically get shoved to one or the other extremes by angry people who don't want to understand where we're coming from.

Re: Keith Richards guitar playing comments
Posted by: rebelrebel ()
Date: October 6, 2017 17:57

Quote
laertisflash
"I think the best would be if he went back to the ''clean'' sound he had on the licks-tour, then at least the mistakes wouldn't hurt everyone's ears so much"

What Blockbuster says is a stimulus for some thoughts and remembering...

Back in 2003 Keith did some mistakes which could be covered by no one and nothing - band's member or sound's type. And the reason was simple: He often screwed up the intro of Brown Sugar that was opener song, then. He messed up very badly the opening riffs at Stockholm Stadion, at Amsterdam Arena, at Stade de France and, if memory helps, in 3-4 additional cases. But we had NOT discussions about "Keith being unable to play guitar anymore", then.

On the current tour Keith botched once the intro of a song that is sporadically played, like "Beast Of Burden" and, for an week or so, we had serious bouts of hysteria here...

Back in 2003, in Prague, Keith started Midnight Rambler with the riff of Tumblin Dice. For everyone it was a funny fact. He just forgot the exact row of the songs.
Nothing less, nothing more. On the current tour, in Barcelona, he forgot that Mick had to introduced "Rocks Of" as the "vote/winner" song of the night and on IORR board some guys seemed prepared to convene an International Conference of Healthcare Professionals, so that we know how fast is Keith "losing his brain"...

Sometimes I think that many guys on the board burden Keith with their own agonies about life, aging, time going past in space.. Just a thought.

True but back then it was put down to being drunk on stage, rightly so by all accounts. Now there is far less evidence of this plus Keith has noticeably aged, (yes, haven't we all but Keith much more so), resulting in more speculation about what he is actually capable of.

Re: Keith Richards guitar playing comments
Posted by: OpenG ()
Date: October 6, 2017 18:12

Quote
OpenG
The talk of Keith letting Ronnie do the solos - Keith is going down with his guitar - When was the last time he gave up a solo live that he always performed? - Way back when MT did the solo I think on Carol on the 72/73 tour.

Keith's solo on SFTD for me now is sad - if he would just play it in the right key
is all I ask. But Keith never really replicated his solo from YA YAS all these years.

I think there are many moments live when Keith has surpassed YA YAS Sympathy solo imho.
[www.youtube.com]

I agree with you - I just indicated that he never played the solo like he did on ya yas ever again.

Re: Keith Richards guitar playing comments
Posted by: RiffKichards ()
Date: October 6, 2017 18:14

Quote
laertisflash
Excellent post, HonkeyTonkFlash. Especially these phrases:

"Another thought is how the visuals influence the way we hear things. While watching images on the big screens, one may tend to hear a Keith that sounds as old as he looks. Ronnie, at time looks cadaverous. But then I closed my eyes and just listened...and then I found myself visualizing the Stones as they were much longer ago. When it comes to the sound, they're still the Stones even if Keith is no longer leading the charge with awesome riffage as in times past. Taking in the overall sound and imaging how much more exciting it is to actually be there, they're still the Stones and that's a pretty cool thing."

That's exactly what I wrote a few days ago: Don't judge the whole thing from the factor "how does Keith look and move". Judge it from how they really sound! And yes, they sound as you have described. And, believe me, anyone being there can understand how different, how "full", how stronger the real sound is, compered to the sound coming (?) from the YT clips.

I agree. I have listened the second half part of Zurich show on periscope without the image. They sound great and I would say "as usual". Maybe not exactly the same (each tour being diferent) but very close to.

Much more than this, they are not virtuosi and have never claimed to be (Mick Taylor excepted). With them, I don't expect to attend a perfect show. Some like it (me) others don't. I fully understand if someone tells me he/she does not like the Stones live. They are particularly rough and wild, sometimes they are not playing very well, sometimes it is the full opposite and they are magical, it depends. But when they are on fire (and it occurs "relatively frequently")... what a night.

I did not have seen them this tour (I am waiting for Paris x 3 - in the pit) and, from what I have seen here and there, it seems they are ok.

Re: Keith Richards guitar playing comments
Date: October 6, 2017 18:42

Quote
Redhotcarpet
I can't hear a thing!

Now you can. Forgot the "~original" smiling smiley

Re: Keith Richards guitar playing comments
Posted by: laertisflash ()
Date: October 6, 2017 18:51

"True but back then it was put down to being drunk on stage, rightly so by all accounts. Now there is far less evidence of this plus Keith has noticeably aged, (yes, haven't we all but Keith much more so), resulting in more speculation about what he is actually capable of".

I get you Rebelrebel. But my point is that back then all the fans were judging Keith's abilities from the performances he overall offered. Not from 5-6 botched intros, even we are talking about serious mistakes (it's an intro he played on every tour, on every gig, since 1971...). Now some fans are "counting" current Keith's skills from moments only. I would say that sometimes they seem unwilling to consider what - good or bad- he is doing during the rest of the gig.

Did Keith screw up the intros because he was drunk on stage,in 2003? I have some doubts, based on a simple thought: How could a drunk guitarist avoid the mistakes after a botched intro? Could he become sober after the first 10 - 15 seconds of a gig? In addition, I remember some speculation about Ronnie not being sober, then. Not about Keith.

Maybe Keith was trying something "strange", that didn't work, then. Or, more truly, we had the well known... situation, "keith is Keith". Like back,in 19981. He was able to botch opening intros several times and being excellent after one minute. Mysterious Mr. Riff Master, could be one of the most charming pages of the entire glorious rock history...

Re: Keith Richards guitar playing comments
Posted by: stone4ever ()
Date: October 6, 2017 18:55

Quote
keefriff99
I don't understand why it's so hard to express a nuanced view around here. You're either pigeon-holed into expressing one of two thoughts:

"Keith can't play anymore and is at death's door."

or

"Keith is ripping it up like it's 1989 again."

It seems those of us trying to express a middle opinion automatically get shoved to one or the other extremes by angry people who don't want to understand where we're coming from.

Best post I read in ages

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