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DandelionPowderman
<
I think some people on this thread are too emotionally attached to this idea that Keith is still a great guitar player or at least still has flashes of guitar player brilliance and they can't let go>

Why should they let go if they like it?

They don't have to let go if they want to just enjoy themselves. Of course, one can have a good time during a Stones concert, have a few drinks, be with your friends, sing along with Angie and Satisfaction, see Mick Jagger move around stage. No reason not to do that if you want it.

But if you want to say something serious about the music and if you want people to take the musical qualities of the Stones seriously, if you think Let It Bleed, Exile, Tattoo You are on the same level as the best by the Beatles or Bob Dylan (or even better, to be honest), if you think they should be recognized as a band that revolutionized and evolved rock n roll music, with especial emphasis on groove and roots, in that case "old age" or "fun" or "cool guy" or "at least they try" have no meaning (again, I repeat they are all valid arguments for just having a fun night out, of course).

I am not connoisseur of classical music, but I've read somewhere that Beethoven 9th is his artistical best, apart from the 4th movement which apparantly is "below par". I can't judge that, but I *can* judge that saying "yeah, but he was old and deaf" or "he was such a cool guy" or "but I enjoy it" (I actually do enjoy it in the Clockwork Orange movie) are no arguments to judge its musical merits.

Oh, and of course all of the above is "IMHO".



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2017-09-27 17:21 by matxil.

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matxil

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DandelionPowderman
<
I think some people on this thread are too emotionally attached to this idea that Keith is still a great guitar player or at least still has flashes of guitar player brilliance and they can't let go>

Why should they let go if they like it?

They don't have to let go if they want to just enjoy themselves. Of course, one can have a good time during a Stones concert, have a few drinks, be with your friends, sing along with Angie and Satisfaction, see Mick Jagger move around stage. No reason not to do that if you want it.

But if you want to say something serious about the music and if you want people to take the musical qualities of the Stones seriously, if you think Let It Bleed, Exile, Tattoo You are on the same level as the best by the Beatles or Bob Dylan (or even better, to be honest), if you think they should be recognized as a band that revolutionized and evolved rock n roll music, with especial emphasis on groove and roots, in that case "old age" or "fun" or "cool guy" or "at least they try" have no meaning (again, I repeat they are all valid arguments for just having a fun night out, of course).

I am not connoisseur of classical music, but I've read somewhere that Beethoven 9th is his artistical best, apart from the 4th movement which apparantly is "below par". I can't judge that, but I *can* judge that saying "yeah, but he was old and deaf" or "he was such a cool guy" or "but I enjoy it" (I actually do enjoy it in the Clockwork Orange movie) are no arguments to judge its musical merits.

Oh, and of course all of the above is "IMHO".

Then take me through this:

In Hamburg I heard a beautiful rendition of Play With Fire. It was far from light-hearted fun, rather it was a huge emotional musical moment for me.

"The boys' night out" may be a good description of singing along to the hits, but The Stones are more than that, even today.

This discussion may take 10 more years, some of us describe the Keith reality, some others have a different opinion, and others are aware but do not admit or write it - will never admit it.
Human.

***
I'm just a Bad Boy Boogie

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DandelionPowderman

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matxil

Quote
DandelionPowderman
<
I think some people on this thread are too emotionally attached to this idea that Keith is still a great guitar player or at least still has flashes of guitar player brilliance and they can't let go>

Why should they let go if they like it?

They don't have to let go if they want to just enjoy themselves. Of course, one can have a good time during a Stones concert, have a few drinks, be with your friends, sing along with Angie and Satisfaction, see Mick Jagger move around stage. No reason not to do that if you want it.

But if you want to say something serious about the music and if you want people to take the musical qualities of the Stones seriously, if you think Let It Bleed, Exile, Tattoo You are on the same level as the best by the Beatles or Bob Dylan (or even better, to be honest), if you think they should be recognized as a band that revolutionized and evolved rock n roll music, with especial emphasis on groove and roots, in that case "old age" or "fun" or "cool guy" or "at least they try" have no meaning (again, I repeat they are all valid arguments for just having a fun night out, of course).

I am not connoisseur of classical music, but I've read somewhere that Beethoven 9th is his artistical best, apart from the 4th movement which apparantly is "below par". I can't judge that, but I *can* judge that saying "yeah, but he was old and deaf" or "he was such a cool guy" or "but I enjoy it" (I actually do enjoy it in the Clockwork Orange movie) are no arguments to judge its musical merits.

Oh, and of course all of the above is "IMHO".

Then take me through this:

In Hamburg I heard a beautiful rendition of Play With Fire. It was far from light-hearted fun, rather it was a huge emotional musical moment for me.

"The boys' night out" may be a good description of singing along to the hits, but The Stones are more than that, even today.

Yes, I heard that clip and indeed, that was an musically interesting version. But - at least in the clip I heard - the instrument I heard the most was the "special effects" by Chuck Leavell (I'm not sure what instrument it was, sort of rhythmic). But yes, it was nicely done.
I hear some nice guitar too, I don't know by whom, but judging from the video-screens it's mainly Ronnie. So, although it's an interesting version, it doesn't really redeem Keith's qualities, musically speaking.

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powerage78


This discussion may take 10 more years, some of us describe the Keith reality, some others have a different opinion, and others are aware but do not admit or write it - will never admit it.
Human.

I suppose it's like an old couple, and the wife won't say one wrong thing about her decrepit old husband even though he's become deaf, dumb, and blind, and is being wheeled around the nursing home by caregivers.
For her, he is still the most amazing person in the world, and while deep down she's aware of all of his handicaps, she would never openly criticize him for it...there's too much history and love between them.
And if anyone dare say something about his condition - even if it's well intended or a constructive criticism, she'll break out the boxing gloves in defense of the love of her life.

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

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powerage78


This discussion may take 10 more years, some of us describe the Keith reality, some others have a different opinion, and others are aware but do not admit or write it - will never admit it.
Human.

I don't know what category i fit into, i see and hear all Keith's mistakes, i admit he has very much declined in his playing skills, but i still think he has a lot to offer. I still love him cranking out the intro's and the Riffs.
I still love watching him on stage when he is moving more and clearly enjoying himself.
I wouldn't want to deny Keith that chance after all he has given us, and i wouldn't want to deny the fans one last chance to see the Stones in all their tattered wasted glory.

You're going to have a good time stone4ever!!!

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

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matxil

Quote
DandelionPowderman

Quote
matxil

Quote
DandelionPowderman
<
I think some people on this thread are too emotionally attached to this idea that Keith is still a great guitar player or at least still has flashes of guitar player brilliance and they can't let go>

Why should they let go if they like it?

They don't have to let go if they want to just enjoy themselves. Of course, one can have a good time during a Stones concert, have a few drinks, be with your friends, sing along with Angie and Satisfaction, see Mick Jagger move around stage. No reason not to do that if you want it.

But if you want to say something serious about the music and if you want people to take the musical qualities of the Stones seriously, if you think Let It Bleed, Exile, Tattoo You are on the same level as the best by the Beatles or Bob Dylan (or even better, to be honest), if you think they should be recognized as a band that revolutionized and evolved rock n roll music, with especial emphasis on groove and roots, in that case "old age" or "fun" or "cool guy" or "at least they try" have no meaning (again, I repeat they are all valid arguments for just having a fun night out, of course).

I am not connoisseur of classical music, but I've read somewhere that Beethoven 9th is his artistical best, apart from the 4th movement which apparantly is "below par". I can't judge that, but I *can* judge that saying "yeah, but he was old and deaf" or "he was such a cool guy" or "but I enjoy it" (I actually do enjoy it in the Clockwork Orange movie) are no arguments to judge its musical merits.

Oh, and of course all of the above is "IMHO".

Then take me through this:

In Hamburg I heard a beautiful rendition of Play With Fire. It was far from light-hearted fun, rather it was a huge emotional musical moment for me.

"The boys' night out" may be a good description of singing along to the hits, but The Stones are more than that, even today.

Yes, I heard that clip and indeed, that was an musically interesting version. But - at least in the clip I heard - the instrument I heard the most was the "special effects" by Chuck Leavell (I'm not sure what instrument it was, sort of rhythmic). But yes, it was nicely done.
I hear some nice guitar too, I don't know by whom, but judging from the video-screens it's mainly Ronnie. So, although it's an interesting version, it doesn't really redeem Keith's qualities, musically speaking.

Listen again. I'm pretty sure Keith's 12 string will be pretty dominant in the mix

Matt played the rattlesnake percussion.

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DandelionPowderman

Listen again. I'm pretty sure Keith's 12 string will be pretty dominant in the mix

Matt played the rattlesnake percussion.

Ah, ok, yes, that was the effect I was referring to.
I will listen again, I didn't notice any particular guitar.

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Hairball
You're going to have a good time stone4ever!!!

Thanks Hairball, i hope so

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RaiseTheKnife

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DandelionPowderman
Not only are you sure, you have seen it

It's a good solo no doubt, just wish he could play like that the whole show. Still can't get into that dreadful slow tempo though.

Press on the small wheel icon in the Youtube player and listen to it 1.25 times faster. Works like a charm

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Lorenz

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RaiseTheKnife

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DandelionPowderman
Not only are you sure, you have seen it

It's a good solo no doubt, just wish he could play like that the whole show. Still can't get into that dreadful slow tempo though.

Press on the small wheel icon in the Youtube player and listen to it 1.25 times faster. Works like a charm

Now THAT'S funny.

You need facebook to hear this, but maybe you're better off not hearing it at all...

[www.facebook.com]

Keith has my sympathy...bless him for trying.

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

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Hairball
You need facebook to hear this, but maybe you're better off not hearing it at all...

[www.facebook.com]

Keith has my sympathy...bless him for trying.

Ouch. The beginning of that "solo" actually made me laugh.

BTW, I don't use FB at all and I was able to play the video.

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keefriff99
BTW, I don't use FB at all and I was able to play the video.

OK good to know...to all those who dare, press play at your own risk.

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

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keefriff99

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Hairball
You need facebook to hear this, but maybe you're better off not hearing it at all...

[www.facebook.com]

Keith has my sympathy...bless him for trying.

Ouch. The beginning of that "solo" actually made me laugh.

Me too! And of course it picks up somewhat but then there was only one way to go from there. As Hairball says, bless him for trying.

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Hairball
You need facebook to hear this, but maybe you're better off not hearing it at all...

[www.facebook.com]

Keith has my sympathy...bless him for trying.

Ouch...

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erad

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Hairball
You need facebook to hear this, but maybe you're better off not hearing it at all...

[www.facebook.com]

Keith has my sympathy...bless him for trying.

Ouch...

I know, what can i say

Concerned Keith might be getting (too) #*&^ed up before the gigs..

Hope I'm wrong.. or actually I may hope I'm right.

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MisterDDDD
Concerned Keith might be getting (too) #*&^ed up before the gigs..

Hope I'm wrong.. or actually I may hope I'm right.

Yes i was thinking the same thing, i mean at 74 what is he thinking, i don't want this to be our lasting memory of Keith.

This may getting towards the end for Keith and the decline is obvious but it will not be my lasting memories of him because I can always watch the '78 Texas or Hampton '81 shows and remember Keith and the Stones as I 1st experienced them. I was 15 when the Stones came to Seattle on the Tatoo You tour. Managed to get right up front and have the image of Keith not only playing great but looking like "The rock star" burnt into my memories. That will always be Keith to me.

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Iggyrichards
This may getting towards the end for Keith and the decline is obvious but it will not be my lasting memories of him because I can always watch the '78 Texas or Hampton '81 shows and remember Keith and the Stones as I 1st experienced them. I was 15 when the Stones came to Seattle on the Tatoo You tour. Managed to get right up front and have the image of Keith not only playing great but looking like "The rock star" burnt into my memories. That will always be Keith to me.

Yeah no one can take that away from us or Keith

Don't be so depressed and talk about this decline as something sad, it's more of a last hurrah celebrating their music. Keith obviously enjoy being on stage and most of the audience have a great time. Their past glory is well documented and will never be forgotten. Also many times they are in fact still better than just about any other band touring right now.

Prolly if the post produced tonights SFTD, it would sound as great as their official live product, including ole ole and that other one last year....maybe Fonda haa who knows.
"Got Live..." had some studio tracks with audience screams flown in post production...
...Ya Yas was worked on, and it was only relatively few tracks;
a totally hugely great worthwhile album any way they did it;
I've Liver Than You'll Ever Be but would NOT want to be without Yas Yas.
They'll probably have a live LP of THIS tour and it will all be stunning, Pierre is really getting good; haha joke i joke...

Wow.

I am a Stones fanatic. Have been since 1965.

Saw them as often as I could in Australia, including sitting on the edge of the stage at the Enmore Theatre Licks tour, front row Adelaide 2014 and a heap of other shows.And not to forget my first date with my still wife in Perth in 1973 at the WACA...

Never had any problem dropping (on the last tour downunder) over AUD$500 a ticket for half dozen shows for my wife and self. Plus astronomical Aussie airfares and accommodations. THE STONES have been sensational.

And taking into account they ARE youtube videos...I watched a HEAP last night from various No Filter shows....

...I would be right royally pissed paying that sort of money for these types of 'shows'. Keith IS having troubles. He should NOT play ANY solos, they are hideous. Out of tune, out of time, out of..notes. Even his rhythm playing seems off kilter....

I KNOW he's a legend. I know he was the best r'n'r rhythm guitarist, I know he plays in what was /is the World's Greatest Rock n Roll band...I KNOW all this...but he IS terrible this year. Just awful to listen to.

DON'T anyone else in the band grab him and say "Mate. it's awful out there. Listen to these playbacks. What do YOU think?"

These shows ARE diminishing his aura/legend. I will remember the GREAT shows I saw, but these shows, too, will be in my memory. Other artists will see these videos and scratch their head in disbelief. Even from youtube videos, you can hear how truly bad he is. It's a pity ... and shame. It's certainly NOT funny, certainly NOT at the premium prices they charge nowdays. COVER bands can do a better job...

Rod



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2017-09-28 04:34 by bitusa2012.

Points well taken bitusa2012. From another fan since '65, I would respectfully disagree with you on a few accounts.

Equating the price paid, including airfare etc., with the performance is a non-starter for me in the overall critique of a Rolling Stones concert (or any music really). Sure, it's a factor to you personally, but it's a non-factor in an honest review of the performance.

Additionally, these are still The Rolling (*u#@ing) Stones!!
While they are showing signs of age etc., they put on an amazing performance despite it. A big part of the shows has always been the vibe, the spectacle, the camaraderie , the stage, the crowd, the.. etc. They still bring all that, and still some amazing performances despite the flaws.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2017-09-28 05:00 by MisterDDDD.

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MisterD

Equating the price paid, including airfare etc., with the performance is a non-starter for me in the overall critique of a Rolling Stones concert (or any music really). Sure, it's a factor to you personally, but it's a non-factor in an honest review of the performance.

Additionally, these are still The Rolling (*u#@ing) Stones!!
While they are showing signs of age etc., they put on an amazing performance despite it. A big part of the shows has always been the vibe, the spectacle, the camaraderie , the stage, the crowd, the.. etc. They still bring all that, and still some amazing performances despite the flaws.

I go to a show PRIMARILY for the music. The SHOW is a bonus. Keith's "contributions" to the No Filter shows, to date, are woeful.

Let me ask Keith-supporters, and I applaud those who can support him thru this period, I wish I could, IF Mick Jagger was forgetting lyrics, humming or whistling instead of singing, or just standing there smiling goofily,in other words, stuffing up completely, like Keith unfortunately IS, would you say the band was still giving a great show? Value for premium monies they charge?

Rod

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bitusa2012
Wow.

I am a Stones fanatic. Have been since 1965.

Saw them as often as I could in Australia, including sitting on the edge of the stage at the Enmore Theatre Licks tour, front row Adelaide 2014 and a heap of other shows.And not to forget my first date with my still wife in Perth in 1973 at the WACA...

Never had any problem dropping (on the last tour downunder) over AUD$500 a ticket for half dozen shows for my wife and self. Plus astronomical Aussie airfares and accommodations. THE STONES have been sensational.

And taking into account they ARE youtube videos...I watched a HEAP last night from various No Filter shows....

...I would be right royally pissed paying that sort of money for these types of 'shows'. Keith IS having troubles. He should NOT play ANY solos, they are hideous. Out of tune, out of time, out of..notes. Even his rhythm playing seems off kilter....

I KNOW he's a legend. I know he was the best r'n'r rhythm guitarist, I know he plays in what was /is the World's Greatest Rock n Roll band...I KNOW all this...but he IS terrible this year. Just awful to listen to.

DON'T anyone else in the band grab him and say "Mate. it's awful out there. Listen to these playbacks. What do YOU think?"

These shows ARE diminishing his aura/legend. I will remember the GREAT shows I saw, but these shows, too, will be in my memory. Other artists will see these videos and scratch their head in disbelief. Even from youtube videos, you can hear how truly bad he is. It's a pity ... and shame. It's certainly NOT funny, certainly NOT at the premium prices they charge nowdays. COVER bands can do a better job...

credible assessment.