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bye bye johnny
Mick Jagger Released 2 New Songs 10 Days Ago and They’ve Sold Two Thousand Copies Apiece

Roger Friedman - August 7, 2017



It pains me to write this because I’m a fan of a lot of Mick Jagger’s solo work. But the famed Rolling Stone has treated his career like a hobby, and it’s rarely been attended with much follow up.

So that’s the story of the two singles he dropped and no one picked up on July 27th. Mick spontaneously released “Gotta Get a Grip” and “England Lost” with no warning and no promotion. And it wasn’t like they were spur of the moment projects. They were accompanied by handsome short films– videos– that took time to prepare.

Nevertheless, 10 days later, Mick needs to “Get a Grip.” Each single has sold 2,000 copies or less. “Grip” is slightly more successful because it’s better. “England Lost” is a sonic mess. Both tracks, though mixed and remixed by top contemporary producers, sound a little like U2 circa “Mysterious Ways.”

Radio has pretty much ignored the tracks, as well. But that happens to every legacy artist. Classic rock stations hypocritically play all the old music by Rock Stars, but refuse to support their new material. It’s really stupid– they’re killing the future of their own business.

As for Mick, I wish he had gone more in the direction of covers a la the Stones’ last and very successful album, “Blue and Lonesome.” Instead of blues he could have revived some soul hits. Or country. Alas, this experiment seems as though it will be marked as a two-off souvenir for the summer of 2017.

[www.showbiz411.com]

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crumbling_mice
I really think the current thing with Jagger is a case of the Emperors new clothes. He'll come up with these ideas in a vain attempt to stay musically relevant and those around him and in his pay, will tell him what he wants to hear....they aint going to say, Mick, just @#$%& give it up, your solo works were pretty dreadful and you're in your 70s now, and the songs are only going to sell to a couple of thousand Stones fans at best!

He might learn from this latest vanity project and put us all out of the misery of hearing any more dreadful attempts to fuse dad rock with the latest musical fashion.

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Witness

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stone4ever
Outside of iorr these are the cold facts.
Mick without the Stones is a No No, no really, thank you , but if its all the same, no. Especially if its crap. No one wants it, no one buys it, and they certainly don't want to take the time to play it 7 times until they think they get it. If anyone had any sense they would have listened to these two desperate offerings and gone 'ok, now can we just forget this happened and sweep it under the carpet'. Not magnified this colossal late life crises with a microscope. This male menopausal embarrassment had me believing it would be a big hit when i played it 7 or 8 times. But what i forgot was who out there (non Stones Fan ) is going to listen to it that many times. You see Mick bites the hand that feeds him when he targets a younger audience. He alienates the casual Stones fan. This is why CH sold very well for an old Rocker like keith, even Geargelicks was surprised how well it sold considering album sales on today's market. But its no surprise because Keith delivered what was expected from a wide range of Stones fans and Keith fan's alike.
All this talk that Mick deliberately released these two misfires as part of a master plan is just insane. As if Mick would do a thing like that knowing keith would be laughing himself silly with delight. Which is what he is doing right now i suspect.
I would like to know who put Mick up to this whole idea, Matt where are you

You are the kind of poster, who thinks that if the I-person don't like it, it is crap. Those, who say they like the songs, apparently do not exist.

I was one, who started out listening to the two songs seven times.Then they got hold of me. I still listen to them in between other stuff outside the Rolling Stones, not quite so often now. My doing so has nothing to do with me being a reader on IORR. Earlier I even compelled myself to listen to CROSSEYED HEART 25 times. I find it boring. I don't say it is crap for that reason.

I don't know what kind of audience Mick Jagger targeted. Possibly he only wanted to release the music he had made, while the situation it sprang out of still exists. Maybe he aimed simply at those, who would listen, a small or a greater minority, without thinking age.

I hope that Mick makes an album, which he can stand for, before he participates in making an album of generical "Stones-by -numbers"-songs. It may have to do with self respect.

But really you are signifying what I hold to be, not the whole explanation. but the main reason for UNDERCOVER to be latest great Rolling Stones studio album (maybe with an exception of BLUE AND LONESOME, I don't know yet). The reason is the reception of first UNDERCOVER, that is, it is about the over time increasing conservatism of the record buying and concertgoing public of the Rolling Stones. In other words, you yourself are part of that reason with your attitude. You are actively campaigning against the two songs, even after you made a sweeping exit from IORR.

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stone4ever
Ok lets put it another way. Most people, most critics were favorable when they described Crosseyed Heart. The sales were also favorable. Blue And Lonesome was extremely favorable and sales were remarkable for an old Rock act in 2016.
GGAG and EL are unfavorable on all levels, purchases, reviews , sales, streaming, critics and Stones fans alike. Yes Witness i know you like it, i even like it, but i don't prevent myself from commenting through fear that i might upset you and a few others on here. I feel that some of you loose perspective when it comes to Mick solo, most people don't want it at this stage, time is running out, we want another Stones album, that is what i am trying to express. Is that allowed.

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crumbling_mice
Why do you feel the need to defend your opinion, it was a perfectly good appraisal and fair. Obviously on a Stones forum, it's not going to be that popular, but tough, it would be a dreadful forum if everyone thought the same, the last thing we want is a sycophantic jerking circle.

If people enjoy Jagger's latest offerings, that's great, each tot heir own, but equally, if some of us see it as dire, dreadful, depressing music, then that's our choice.

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crumbling_mice
Why do you feel the need to defend your opinion, it was a perfectly good appraisal and fair. Obviously on a Stones forum, it's not going to be that popular, but tough, it would be a dreadful forum if everyone thought the same, the last thing we want is a sycophantic jerking circle.

If people enjoy Jagger's latest offerings, that's great, each tot heir own, but equally, if some of us see it as dire, dreadful, depressing music, then that's our choice.

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stone4ever

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crumbling_mice
Why do you feel the need to defend your opinion, it was a perfectly good appraisal and fair. Obviously on a Stones forum, it's not going to be that popular, but tough, it would be a dreadful forum if everyone thought the same, the last thing we want is a sycophantic jerking circle.

If people enjoy Jagger's latest offerings, that's great, each tot heir own, but equally, if some of us see it as dire, dreadful, depressing music, then that's our choice.

Yes that's right, i got to stop defending myself lol. Thanks.

It was just my reaction from the news byebyejohnny had that they have only sold 2000 copies. I get accused of being a bully when actually its the other way around when the numbers stack against you.
I am commenting on the Stones i am not being personal or singling anyone out.
Cheers for noticing.

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georgelicks
The problem with Mick's new single is no diferent than any other 50+ years old act releasing new stuff: there's no market for it except for vintage physical stuff.

Today's singles/songs market is 80% streaming and 20% sales, and rock is not very popular with streaming audience, 90% of the audience is into R&B/Rap, R&B Pop and Latin music. The 10% into rock is there to listen the classics, Paint It Black or Gimme Shelter are being streamed close to 1 million times each week.

Rock radio is dead and buried, the #1 Rock Song in the U.S (PORTUGAL THE MAN Feel It Still) has an audience impression of 12 million people on a country with over 300m people, enough for a #34 spot on the Hot 100 chart, actually 4 out of 100 songs are "rock" songs on latest week's Hot 100.

AAA and Mainstream Rock radio audiences (formats for older people now) are so small that it doesn't matter who is #1 there, ARCADE FIRE - Everything Now is #1 on AAA with an audience impression of 1.5 million people, dreadful.

In Europe all the singles charts are 90% streaming based, so that rules out any single for any 45-50+ years old act actually.

So, where's the market for these old acts?
Physical albums with 5 different versions of it, just like the Beatles and Stones' re-issues.

Keith's album sold well (if 300,000 copies sold worldwide is good for today's marks...), but it was his first solo album in over 20 years, also no Stones' new album for over 10 years at the time and with the shadow of a book that sold over 1 million copies only in the U.S.
No song from the album made any impact on the charts or radio, Trouble barely passed the 1 million mark on Spotify after 2 years, worldwide.

B&L was the right product prepared to the masses: no new stuff, covers, first album in 11 years, released on December with a big Stones' tongue on it, a perfect gift for Christmas, die hards loved it and young people bought it for their parents as gift. The album sold 2.1 million copies worldwide, about 1.9 million copies during the Christmas season, about 90% of its total.
Ride Em On Down was the only song with a limited impact thanks to the video, but it lasted 1-2 weeks and that's it.

It's a hard time for old acts with new stuff anyway, Roger Waters' latest album barely sold 300k worldwide, Dylan's latest album didn't reach 100k yet even with a Nobel Price behind it.

Meanwhile the world is dancing with Despacito.

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crumbling_mice

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stone4ever

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crumbling_mice
Why do you feel the need to defend your opinion, it was a perfectly good appraisal and fair. Obviously on a Stones forum, it's not going to be that popular, but tough, it would be a dreadful forum if everyone thought the same, the last thing we want is a sycophantic jerking circle.

If people enjoy Jagger's latest offerings, that's great, each tot heir own, but equally, if some of us see it as dire, dreadful, depressing music, then that's our choice.

Yes that's right, i got to stop defending myself lol. Thanks.

It was just my reaction from the news byebyejohnny had that they have only sold 2000 copies. I get accused of being a bully when actually its the other way around when the numbers stack against you.
I am commenting on the Stones i am not being personal or singling anyone out.
Cheers for noticing.

Good, I haven't seen any bullying, people can be passionate about this band, me too, in the right circumstances. Let's face it, if Jagger shit in a can and recorded it, it would probably sell a similar amount simply for the novelty value and some would defend it on here. That's forums and people for you...and long may it continue.

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retired_dog

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crumbling_mice

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stone4ever

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crumbling_mice
Why do you feel the need to defend your opinion, it was a perfectly good appraisal and fair. Obviously on a Stones forum, it's not going to be that popular, but tough, it would be a dreadful forum if everyone thought the same, the last thing we want is a sycophantic jerking circle.

If people enjoy Jagger's latest offerings, that's great, each tot heir own, but equally, if some of us see it as dire, dreadful, depressing music, then that's our choice.

Yes that's right, i got to stop defending myself lol. Thanks.

It was just my reaction from the news byebyejohnny had that they have only sold 2000 copies. I get accused of being a bully when actually its the other way around when the numbers stack against you.
I am commenting on the Stones i am not being personal or singling anyone out.
Cheers for noticing.

Good, I haven't seen any bullying, people can be passionate about this band, me too, in the right circumstances. Let's face it, if Jagger shit in a can and recorded it, it would probably sell a similar amount simply for the novelty value and some would defend it on here. That's forums and people for you...and long may it continue.

Only Jagger? Or Keef too? Maybe you just forget to mention him in this context.

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35love
"primarily springing out of a Mick adoring point of view and attitude. "

I wonder if you mean me, because I don't see anybody else as silly as me about MJ
in case you/ anyone let me state
I have discerningly good taste in music, not be to swayed by race, creed, color or sex. Okay maybe sex, LOL!

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LongBeachArena72

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crumbling_mice
Why do you feel the need to defend your opinion, it was a perfectly good appraisal and fair. Obviously on a Stones forum, it's not going to be that popular, but tough, it would be a dreadful forum if everyone thought the same, the last thing we want is a sycophantic jerking circle.

If people enjoy Jagger's latest offerings, that's great, each tot heir own, but equally, if some of us see it as dire, dreadful, depressing music, then that's our choice.

I think the question is one of degree. Speaking as someone who did battle with 3/4 of this board when Xeyed Heart came out, I feel there comes a time when, after you stated your dislike of something a few times, you really just become a dick for constantly dumping on something other people seem to enjoy. (And no one was a bigger dick than I was on that topic!)

The challenge of course is that many of us have this nearly irresistible urge TO CONVINCE OTHERS THAT THEIR OPINIONS ARE WRONG! My goal in life is to one day be able to not succumb to that temptation.

I got to the point where I was happy for people who dug Keith's record--it brought a lot of joy to lots of fans. For whatever reason, Keith's solo stuff does not seem to represent the same existential threat to the continued existence of the band that Mick's does. Even peeps who don't like Keith solo (like me) rarely begrudge him the right to have some fun and record something in a new environment. In my experience, it's a little more likely for people who don't like Mick solo to bemoan the fact that his solo music even exists ... because he could have been pouring that effort into a Stones record, dammit!

It's kind of a weird dichotomy ...

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DandelionPowderman

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treaclefingers

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DandelionPowderman

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treaclefingers

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DandelionPowderman

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treaclefingers

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DandelionPowderman

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GetYerAngie

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Doxa
These @#$%& double standars in this site. These bloody "Keith Richards is the second coming of Christ" people. When I said something controversial in that Keith Richards solo album thread, that was a reason to screaem and shout "oh that horrible Doxa isn't he bad, he is spoiling our party?". Dandelion Powderman was so angry that he not just delated all of his posts in that thread but he also kicked me out of (his) IORR band (that supposed to play next month in Amsterdam). Now I am sure anything as bitching and propaganda-like people like Hairball are saying is perfectly allright by our Dandelinion Powderman. Because it is only about Mick Jagger.

Thank you jeezus richards almighty! I simply hate double standards.


And @#$%& you!

- Doxa

Yeah energitic Dandie Powergame and his selfrightiousness and dopplestandards are 90% of the time no gain for this site, and Hairball neither. It's sad but understandable that you take yet another pause. Your posts will be missed.

What did I do now...

you're just being you...you can't help it.

BBD-bring back doxa

I can't help being self-righteous, with double standards... Yes, I'm sure that's why Doxa left.

Nice to see a serious and heartfelt post from you again. Thanks.

Well, don't want to trouble you but I was being serious.

I know, Treacle, but what did you really say?

I was applauding an observation from another poster. I think it's pretty clear.

Well, you know, 99 jokes and then all of a sudden a serious post might make you wonder whether the last one was tongue in cheek, too - hence I had to ask.

I appreciate you being serious. It's too bad you're telling me I'm a dick when you finally decide to be sincere, though.

But by all means, applaude all you want.. Keep on blaming me, although it won't get you anywhere nearer the truth.

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Rocky Dijon
Since when did everyone become so hypersensitive? People don't have to agree about whether songs or good or bad. Hairball and Stone4ever and Dandy and Doxa all have a right to express their opinions. No one wins a debate when the topic is subjective. I get flying off the handle (I've done it many times, too) but then you calm down. Exiling yourself because people don't agree or being rude and posting things you likely would never say to a co-worker or family member just because the internet provides security is just ridiculous. Yes, some people are in one camp or another and some don't have silos at all. It works. Say your bit and move on. Don't belittle one another because they don't think like you think.

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stone4ever

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retired_dog

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crumbling_mice

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stone4ever

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crumbling_mice
Why do you feel the need to defend your opinion, it was a perfectly good appraisal and fair. Obviously on a Stones forum, it's not going to be that popular, but tough, it would be a dreadful forum if everyone thought the same, the last thing we want is a sycophantic jerking circle.

If people enjoy Jagger's latest offerings, that's great, each tot heir own, but equally, if some of us see it as dire, dreadful, depressing music, then that's our choice.

Yes that's right, i got to stop defending myself lol. Thanks.

It was just my reaction from the news byebyejohnny had that they have only sold 2000 copies. I get accused of being a bully when actually its the other way around when the numbers stack against you.
I am commenting on the Stones i am not being personal or singling anyone out.
Cheers for noticing.

Good, I haven't seen any bullying, people can be passionate about this band, me too, in the right circumstances. Let's face it, if Jagger shit in a can and recorded it, it would probably sell a similar amount simply for the novelty value and some would defend it on here. That's forums and people for you...and long may it continue.

Only Jagger? Or Keef too? Maybe you just forget to mention him in this context.

Its already been explained that Keith's album sold very well. So it doesn't apply to him, he delivers a bit more than shit in a can.
Maybe if Keith ever does produce shit in a can we might find out how well it goes down on iorr

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retired_dog

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stone4ever

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retired_dog

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crumbling_mice

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stone4ever

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crumbling_mice
Why do you feel the need to defend your opinion, it was a perfectly good appraisal and fair. Obviously on a Stones forum, it's not going to be that popular, but tough, it would be a dreadful forum if everyone thought the same, the last thing we want is a sycophantic jerking circle.

If people enjoy Jagger's latest offerings, that's great, each tot heir own, but equally, if some of us see it as dire, dreadful, depressing music, then that's our choice.

Yes that's right, i got to stop defending myself lol. Thanks.

It was just my reaction from the news byebyejohnny had that they have only sold 2000 copies. I get accused of being a bully when actually its the other way around when the numbers stack against you.
I am commenting on the Stones i am not being personal or singling anyone out.
Cheers for noticing.

Good, I haven't seen any bullying, people can be passionate about this band, me too, in the right circumstances. Let's face it, if Jagger shit in a can and recorded it, it would probably sell a similar amount simply for the novelty value and some would defend it on here. That's forums and people for you...and long may it continue.

Only Jagger? Or Keef too? Maybe you just forget to mention him in this context.

Its already been explained that Keith's album sold very well. So it doesn't apply to him, he delivers a bit more than shit in a can.
Maybe if Keith ever does produce shit in a can we might find out how well it goes down on iorr

You "forgot" to read the word "if" in crumbling_mices post, meaning "recording the sound of shitting in a can" is meant theoretically, not as a fact.

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stone4ever

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retired_dog

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stone4ever

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retired_dog

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crumbling_mice

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stone4ever

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crumbling_mice
Why do you feel the need to defend your opinion, it was a perfectly good appraisal and fair. Obviously on a Stones forum, it's not going to be that popular, but tough, it would be a dreadful forum if everyone thought the same, the last thing we want is a sycophantic jerking circle.

If people enjoy Jagger's latest offerings, that's great, each tot heir own, but equally, if some of us see it as dire, dreadful, depressing music, then that's our choice.

Yes that's right, i got to stop defending myself lol. Thanks.

It was just my reaction from the news byebyejohnny had that they have only sold 2000 copies. I get accused of being a bully when actually its the other way around when the numbers stack against you.
I am commenting on the Stones i am not being personal or singling anyone out.
Cheers for noticing.

Good, I haven't seen any bullying, people can be passionate about this band, me too, in the right circumstances. Let's face it, if Jagger shit in a can and recorded it, it would probably sell a similar amount simply for the novelty value and some would defend it on here. That's forums and people for you...and long may it continue.

Only Jagger? Or Keef too? Maybe you just forget to mention him in this context.

Its already been explained that Keith's album sold very well. So it doesn't apply to him, he delivers a bit more than shit in a can.
Maybe if Keith ever does produce shit in a can we might find out how well it goes down on iorr

You "forgot" to read the word "if" in crumbling_mices post, meaning "recording the sound of shitting in a can" is meant theoretically, not as a fact.

That's right , i am calling it shit in a can.

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retired_dog

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stone4ever

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retired_dog

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stone4ever

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retired_dog

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crumbling_mice

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stone4ever

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crumbling_mice
Why do you feel the need to defend your opinion, it was a perfectly good appraisal and fair. Obviously on a Stones forum, it's not going to be that popular, but tough, it would be a dreadful forum if everyone thought the same, the last thing we want is a sycophantic jerking circle.

If people enjoy Jagger's latest offerings, that's great, each tot heir own, but equally, if some of us see it as dire, dreadful, depressing music, then that's our choice.

Yes that's right, i got to stop defending myself lol. Thanks.

It was just my reaction from the news byebyejohnny had that they have only sold 2000 copies. I get accused of being a bully when actually its the other way around when the numbers stack against you.
I am commenting on the Stones i am not being personal or singling anyone out.
Cheers for noticing.

Good, I haven't seen any bullying, people can be passionate about this band, me too, in the right circumstances. Let's face it, if Jagger shit in a can and recorded it, it would probably sell a similar amount simply for the novelty value and some would defend it on here. That's forums and people for you...and long may it continue.

Only Jagger? Or Keef too? Maybe you just forget to mention him in this context.

Its already been explained that Keith's album sold very well. So it doesn't apply to him, he delivers a bit more than shit in a can.
Maybe if Keith ever does produce shit in a can we might find out how well it goes down on iorr

You "forgot" to read the word "if" in crumbling_mices post, meaning "recording the sound of shitting in a can" is meant theoretically, not as a fact.

That's right , i am calling it shit in a can.

Good to make that clear, because I seem to recall you saying you actually liked it. It's getting a bit confusing, you know.

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stone4ever

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retired_dog

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stone4ever

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retired_dog

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stone4ever

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retired_dog

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crumbling_mice

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stone4ever

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crumbling_mice
Why do you feel the need to defend your opinion, it was a perfectly good appraisal and fair. Obviously on a Stones forum, it's not going to be that popular, but tough, it would be a dreadful forum if everyone thought the same, the last thing we want is a sycophantic jerking circle.

If people enjoy Jagger's latest offerings, that's great, each tot heir own, but equally, if some of us see it as dire, dreadful, depressing music, then that's our choice.

Yes that's right, i got to stop defending myself lol. Thanks.

It was just my reaction from the news byebyejohnny had that they have only sold 2000 copies. I get accused of being a bully when actually its the other way around when the numbers stack against you.
I am commenting on the Stones i am not being personal or singling anyone out.
Cheers for noticing.

Good, I haven't seen any bullying, people can be passionate about this band, me too, in the right circumstances. Let's face it, if Jagger shit in a can and recorded it, it would probably sell a similar amount simply for the novelty value and some would defend it on here. That's forums and people for you...and long may it continue.

Only Jagger? Or Keef too? Maybe you just forget to mention him in this context.

Its already been explained that Keith's album sold very well. So it doesn't apply to him, he delivers a bit more than shit in a can.
Maybe if Keith ever does produce shit in a can we might find out how well it goes down on iorr

You "forgot" to read the word "if" in crumbling_mices post, meaning "recording the sound of shitting in a can" is meant theoretically, not as a fact.

That's right , i am calling it shit in a can.

Good to make that clear, because I seem to recall you saying you actually liked it. It's getting a bit confusing, you know.

So i like shit in a can after 7 listens, we all have our weaknesses lol.

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Rocky Dijon
Since when did everyone become so hypersensitive? People don't have to agree about whether songs or good or bad. Hairball and Stone4ever and Dandy and Doxa all have a right to express their opinions. No one wins a debate when the topic is subjective. I get flying off the handle (I've done it many times, too) but then you calm down. Exiling yourself because people don't agree or being rude and posting things you likely would never say to a co-worker or family member just because the internet provides security is just ridiculous. Yes, some people are in one camp or another and some don't have silos at all. It works. Say your bit and move on. Don't belittle one another because they don't think like you think.

And for the record, I like both Dandy and TreacleFingers a great deal just as I like Doxa (and miss Gazza and Mathijs) and so many others (GasLightStreet, Skipstone, and on and on). It's like the place is on self-destruct or that we want to try and drive off those we don't always agree with. No one should be pointing the finger at each other, just looking at themselves and being honest about their own behavior. It's getting to the point where it's a downer to be here. Do we really need a moderator to make us behave? This is like being around a bunch of friends who've drank to excess all night and are now picking fights with one another.