Quote
keefriffhard4life
to knock the playing of the 80's rock bands is silly as most of them also had at least 2 really good musicians in the band.

I don't recall anyone knocking individual members' playing skills of any of the '80's bands specifically - it was more of a general critique of the entire genres (be it hair metal, new wave, etc.).
And not quite sure if you're implying that because most of those bands had at least two great players, they were great no matter what. I don't think you are, but if so...
If a movie has two really great actors starring in it, does that automatically make the movie great? Not always.
If a restaurant has two really great employess working for them, does that automatically make the restaurant and dining experience itself excellent? Not always.
If a football team has a star quarterback and a great punter, does that automatically make them a winning team? Not always.
If you took all of the very best players from every hair metal band and formed an enormous supergroup, would they be great? Highly doubtful.

____________________________________________________________________________

On a lighter note,

Leaving my studio for lunch today, I grabbed the Audioslave cd which I hadn't listened to in a very long time. Popped the cd into player, and took off driving...one minute into the first song Cochise, and it's getting nice and heavy. I pull up to a stoplight where there's an elementary school on my left, and where there's the back of the playground where all the cool kids hang out at lunch, taunting cars and trying to get the attention people passing by through the fence (just like I used to do!). I look over as a few 11 year old knuckleheads are trying to get my attention - I smile and crank up Cochise on the car stereo to the max full thumping blast. Next thing you know, they're playing air guitar, headbanging, and giving the devil hand signs all to the tune of Cochise!!! Don't know if they were just having some fun or were seriously into it, but it was funny as hell as I drove away laughing. So I did my duties today in honoring the memory of Chris Cornell (RIP)- corrupting the youth by turning them on to some heavy duty rock and roll. If the mischievous little punks are out there tomorrow, I'll play them some Bob Marley, the next day some Beatles, followed by the Stones, Clash, Hendrix, Zeppelin, etc...it's never too late to teach the youth!


*Tried to find some Soundgarden cd's, then realized all I have are the original cassettes......made me realize how fast time flies as it seems not very long ago I was listening to all of those...the blink of an eye....

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

@Hairball-Thanks for your cardriving story while listening to "Cochise", keep up the good work and hopefully you drive a huge American car and I still have loads of cassettes and as well a huge painting of Cochise, I created some years ago.

Cheers runaway.

I've realized since posting that story earlier that tomorrow is Saturday, so the young snot nosed punks will have to wait until Monday to hear some more great tunes blasting from my car!!!

And yes I drive a huge car - a Toyota 4-Runner - made in Japan. As an artist myself, a large vehicle is necessary to haul artwork and supplies to and from. I also have an older American made Ford/Mercury van with the back seats taken out to haul around larger work, etc., and it has an original cassette deck in it (no cd player). Unfortunately it's currently out of commission being worked on, but when I get it back on the road the Soundgarden cassettes will be ready!!!

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

Cheers Hairball
Thanks for more American car and cassettes stories, I was driving a Pontiac Parisienne in Canada back in the day and I'm listening to Soundgarden Badmotorfinger on cassette.

Wife says prescription meds may be to blame:

[www.yahoo.com]

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BowieStone
I loathe grunge, but Chris Cornell was a great singer.

The term grunge is a media creation.

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Dan

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BowieStone
I loathe grunge, but Chris Cornell was a great singer.

The term grunge is a media creation.

Dan, do you have an absolute favorite band or artist that came out of this so-called 'grunge' scene?
I have a feeling you'll pick someone who hardly anyone has ever heard of lol, but your opinion on all things music is greatly respected.

So maybe a two part question:

1) Out of all the big names who rose to the top (Soundgarden, Alice in Chains, Nirvana, etc., etc., etc) from that particular era - bands that most of us have heard of - do you have an absolute favorite?

2) Name an absolute favorite from that scene, as obscure as they may be.


Or maybe after answering number one, your answer will be the same for two?

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2017-05-20 20:03 by Hairball.

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Dan

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BowieStone
I loathe grunge, but Chris Cornell was a great singer.

The term grunge is a media creation.

Just like rock'n'roll, rhythm and blues, heavy metal and punk were.

Those are the tags we got, though, to describe the music..

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Hairball

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Dan

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BowieStone
I loathe grunge, but Chris Cornell was a great singer.

The term grunge is a media creation.

Dan, do you have an absolute favorite band or artist that came out of this so-called 'grunge' scene?
I have a feeling you'll pick someone who hardly anyone has ever heard of lol, but your opinion on all things music is greatly respected.

So maybe a two part question:

1) Out of all the big names who rose to the top (Soundgarden, Alice in Chains, Nirvana, etc., etc., etc) from that particular era - bands that most of us have heard of - do you have an absolute favorite?

2) Name an absolute favorite from that scene, as obscure as they may be.


Or maybe after answering number one, your answer will be the same for two?

Mudhoney

Hardly obscure but nowhere near as popular as they deserve to be.

And they endured, never broke up, kept putting out good albums all along etc.

Then Green River. The band that arguably started it all? Members of Mudhoney, Pearl Jam, Mother Love Bone.

Melvins, still around, still great.

Then Soundgarden. All albums perfect except for Down On The Upside which I only listened to a few times and never heard the last one. And none of their live stuff going back to mid 90's does anything for me but listen to the power of Chris Cornell's voice on the early material compared to how he tries to sing those songs recently and it completely alters the character of the songs and not in a good way.

Skin Yard was a great band.

Of course the Nirvana albums are total masterpieces.

The first Hole album is great. Second one annoying and overrated.

Also not Seattle but Babes In Toyland was a great band right thru it's ill-fated reunion.

Also not Seattle but Liar by Jesus Lizard is one of the greatest albums of all time.

Alice In Chains bored me, and I liked Pearl Jam early one (seeing them 3 weeks after the release of the first album) but got bored with them eventually.

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Dan
Of course the Nirvana albums are total masterpieces.

I would argue Nevermind is and thats pretty unquestioned. I personally wouldn't say In Utero is. I think its great, even excellent, but its what he cobbled together at the time. It happened to be very good, but its hardly flawless and a masterpiece the same way Nevermind is IMO. Its just a great album. And you probably didn't mean Bleach, but thats also a very good underrated album, but again not a masterpiece. I just feel that word gets thrown around a lot.

Thanks Dan, I knew you would come through!

I have a friend whose a big fan of Tad!


ps - I've heard one song from Soundgarden's most recent (2012) just the other night, and it was pretty damn good - Crooked Steps(posted earlier in thread).
Could be because of the context of what's happened, but generally speaking it was a cranking good tune.

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2017-05-20 20:38 by Hairball.

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RollingFreak

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Dan
Of course the Nirvana albums are total masterpieces.

I would argue Nevermind is and thats pretty unquestioned. I personally wouldn't say In Utero is. I think its great, even excellent, but its what he cobbled together at the time. It happened to be very good, but its hardly flawless and a masterpiece the same way Nevermind is IMO. Its just a great album. And you probably didn't mean Bleach, but thats also a very good underrated album, but again not a masterpiece. I just feel that word gets thrown around a lot.

Bleach is my favourite.

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DandelionPowderman

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RollingFreak

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Dan
Of course the Nirvana albums are total masterpieces.

I would argue Nevermind is and thats pretty unquestioned. I personally wouldn't say In Utero is. I think its great, even excellent, but its what he cobbled together at the time. It happened to be very good, but its hardly flawless and a masterpiece the same way Nevermind is IMO. Its just a great album. And you probably didn't mean Bleach, but thats also a very good underrated album, but again not a masterpiece. I just feel that word gets thrown around a lot.

Bleach is my favourite.

In order of preference:
Nevermind - the first I heard of them and the first I bought.
Bleach - bought not long after Nevermind. About a Girl is probably my favorite Nirvana tune period - the Bleach version and the unplugged version.
In Utero - Not too bad, but never truly connected with it - I was already getting jaded by that genre of music in general.

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

Bleach is easily my fave.

Interesting. I feel its the album many seem to not seek out. Cool to see many here have. Its really great. I wouldn't say masterpiece, but really good.

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Dan
Bleach is easily my fave.

As for your original post regarding favorites, etc, other than Skin Yard, I'm familiar with all the rest. I was anticipating and really hoping for some totally obscure bands that I'd never heard of, and I know you know of some! Names like Elephant fungi, or Peppermint Death Wish, or Angry Sunflower, or Happy Machete (all fictitious of course ).

I do remember Screaming Trees - they seemed to make it semi-big with heavy rotation on MTV...haven't heard them in about 20 years or more.

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

Plenty of bands like that though from other genres and elsewhere.

The scene was very small and as soon as Nevermind broke, it was effectively dead. Naturally few of the bands ever reached the heights the hype itself was propelled to and it was about this time the music scene kept fragmenting to the point that there was no dominant genre.

The early 1990's were a very special time, probably my favorite era of music ever. Last Splash by The Breeders and Slow Motion Apocalypse by Grotus are favorites not to mention Faith No More's Angel Dust which came out in 1992 is still completely mindblowing. Listened to it daily back then but now I still hear new things.

Mark Lanegan of Screaming Trees tours all the time as a solo artist. Saw him once with Sean Wheeler & Zander Schloss opening. Also saw Screaming Trees once but they were completely blown away by Rage Against The Machine who's album had been out for only a few months.

Hey this is Chris Cornell's thread!

Top Soundgarden order:

1) Badmotorfinger
2) Superunknown

All the others have some good, average & poor, but those 2 are great throughout.

Audioslave:

1) Audioslave
2) Out of Exile
3) Revelations

All great and the order is interchangeable.

Unfortunately his solo albums are just not that good, liked only 2 off Euphoria ... Carry On is significantly better ... and Higher Truth I am not sure, I think I only gave it a listen or two. I don't recall liking it much but probably need to give it a better chance.

=================

And sorry but I am the true Nirvana master. All the albums are equally brilliant in their own way. It's so hard to rank but if I must:

1) In Utero - incredible intensity & energy throughout, just amazing. Every track is killer, Heart Shaped Box, Frances Farmer, Pennyroyal Tea, Radio Friendly ... wow!

2) Bleach - Garage rock some call it, the beginning and such seemingly simple but incredibly catchy songs. Put on Love Buzz or Negative Creep to get the ultimate rush!

3) Nevermind - Again, amazing, obviously the one that put them on the map, can easily be #1. I probably rank it lower because I overplayed it and got tired of the songs.

4) Incesticide - Again, great songs, Dive, Sliver, Been A Son, Molly's Lips, many covers on this one but still, w/ Nirvana's 'grunge' added.

Decide:

Son of a Gun - Vaselines (the original)
Son of a Gun - Nirvana

The Vaselines version is brilliant but somehow Nirvana still trumps it.

5) MTV Unplugged - Definitely not #5, many consider it up there w/ the best albums in rock history. But still it is not a studio album and I have a hard time ranking it w/ the others, so putting it 5th.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2017-05-21 02:08 by LeonidP.

'Everybody loves our town' is one of the best rock biographies I've ever read, about the rise and fall of the grunge scene (a term actually coined by Mark Arm of Mudhoney in a letter in the early 80s). superbly put together with first hand accounts and interesting insight into Cornell, Cobain, etc.

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Dan
Plenty of bands like that though from other genres and elsewhere.

The scene was very small and as soon as Nevermind broke, it was effectively dead. Naturally few of the bands ever reached the heights the hype itself was propelled to and it was about this time the music scene kept fragmenting to the point that there was no dominant genre.

The early 1990's were a very special time, probably my favorite era of music ever. Last Splash by The Breeders and Slow Motion Apocalypse by Grotus are favorites not to mention Faith No More's Angel Dust which came out in 1992 is still completely mindblowing. Listened to it daily back then but now I still hear new things.

Mark Lanegan of Screaming Trees tours all the time as a solo artist. Saw him once with Sean Wheeler & Zander Schloss opening. Also saw Screaming Trees once but they were completely blown away by Rage Against The Machine who's album had been out for only a few months.

I was really in to that FNM album - or cassette I should say, and listened to it non stop for a long time. I really liked their cover of the Midnight Cowboy theme as it reminded me of being a kid when the original was in the airwaves. The entire album was awesome, as was the one that came after it...

As mentioned earlier though, I was getting way more into English bands - Charlatans (UK), Blur, Pulp, Suede, etc., bands that were BIG over there, but for the most part were under the radar over here. Having lived in England a few years earlier, it was my way of staying connected - even though it was just musically. There was something eclectic and oddball about some of that music which came across as something totally fresh to me, and was really the antithesis of the hair metal from the '80's. The goth-ish Sisters of Mercy were also good, as were the Mission UK. I also really liked the first two Oasis albums (sounds like a confession now) - more in the trad. rock vein, but still very good for the time, and completely different than some of the synth infested new wave stuff of the '80's. It was stripped down rock and roll played by real people without any real image to portray - not too light and poppish, but not too dark and heavy either. I even bought the 12" singles which had some B-sides that were actually better than what were on the official albums proper (I think they were eventually all released on a compilation). I think it was '95 around the second album and I had 4th row tickets to see them at the Universal Ampitheater, the F*kers cancelled it just a couple of hours before show time - that one truly stung as I was already all the way down in Hollywood drinking beer when I found out. I eventually saw them a couple albums later, but by then the thrill was gone, band members had changed, and they really started to suck musically. Also in the early '90's, I started collecting obscure Scottish bagpipe and German Beer Hall/polka vinyl records (amongst other oddities) at Thrift stores and the local swap meet, along with TONS of classic, psychedelic, and punk rock, etc. The transition away from vinyl was happening big time, and people were dumping box loads of their vinyl, and I would happily pick them up at 25-50 cents a pop - a dollar at the max. That whole chapter turned my vinyl collection from a measly 300 or so up to a couple of thousand! And when my brother passed away, I added about a thousand more to the collection. I now have all of them at my studio organized on a gigantic wall shelf - it's truly a sight to behold - it's literally a wall of vinyl.

But back to Chris Cornell....what a trip....still baffled, bewildered, and saddened by it all...way too young...RIP.

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yorkshirestone
'Everybody loves our town' is one of the best rock biographies I've ever read, about the rise and fall of the grunge scene (a term actually coined by Mark Arm of Mudhoney in a letter in the early 80s). superbly put together with first hand accounts and interesting insight into Cornell, Cobain, etc.

Thanks for the tip yorkshirestone.

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2017-05-21 04:09 by Hairball.

Quote
kovach
Wife says prescription meds may be to blame:

[www.yahoo.com]

She would say that as she wants to collect on his life insurance policy, and probably cannot if his death is ruled a suicide. Solution? Blame the meds.

Quote
Toxic34
The dead just seem to keep piling up, as it feels like celebrities are dying far more often than they used to.

Actually, life expectancy has never been higher. However, the 24 hour media cycle ensures every two bit celebrity and performing artist gets 15 minutes of fame upon dying.

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Hairball

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keefriffhard4life
to knock the playing of the 80's rock bands is silly as most of them also had at least 2 really good musicians in the band.

I don't recall anyone knocking individual members' playing skills of any of the '80's bands specifically - it was more of a general critique of the entire genres (be it hair metal, new wave, etc.).
And not quite sure if you're implying that because most of those bands had at least two great players, they were great no matter what. I don't think you are, but if so...
If a movie has two really great actors starring in it, does that automatically make the movie great? Not always.
If a restaurant has two really great employess working for them, does that automatically make the restaurant and dining experience itself excellent? Not always.
If a football team has a star quarterback and a great punter, does that automatically make them a winning team? Not always.
If you took all of the very best players from every hair metal band and formed an enormous supergroup, would they be great? Highly doubtful.

____________________________________________________________________________

On a lighter note,

Leaving my studio for lunch today, I grabbed the Audioslave cd which I hadn't listened to in a very long time. Popped the cd into player, and took off driving...one minute into the first song Cochise, and it's getting nice and heavy. I pull up to a stoplight where there's an elementary school on my left, and where there's the back of the playground where all the cool kids hang out at lunch, taunting cars and trying to get the attention people passing by through the fence (just like I used to do!). I look over as a few 11 year old knuckleheads are trying to get my attention - I smile and crank up Cochise on the car stereo to the max full thumping blast. Next thing you know, they're playing air guitar, headbanging, and giving the devil hand signs all to the tune of Cochise!!! Don't know if they were just having some fun or were seriously into it, but it was funny as hell as I drove away laughing. So I did my duties today in honoring the memory of Chris Cornell (RIP)- corrupting the youth by turning them on to some heavy duty rock and roll. If the mischievous little punks are out there tomorrow, I'll play them some Bob Marley, the next day some Beatles, followed by the Stones, Clash, Hendrix, Zeppelin, etc...it's never too late to teach the youth!


*Tried to find some Soundgarden cd's, then realized all I have are the original cassettes......made me realize how fast time flies as it seems not very long ago I was listening to all of those...the blink of an eye....

it was implied that most 80's rock bands didn't have any good musicians in the band

Quote
keefriffhard4life
it was implied that most 80's rock bands didn't have any good musicians in the band

I just skimmed through entire thread, and still don't see that - not even an implication.
What I see is people dismissing those bands as simply being bad and hard on the ears - nothing about bad musicianship.
Maybe I'm missing something, or maybe you're reading too much into the criticism and coming up with the wrong conclusion.

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

I never heard of Cornell until he died the other day....

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Hairball

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swiss

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Hairball
Yes very surreal...knowing now what's going on his head...

It's powerful to see him so incredibly stoked, vibrant, alive, focus, funny, and passionately playing and sing knowing he'd be dead in 3 hours.

That said, we have zero idea what was going on in his head.

True...I should have said 'wondering' whats going on in his head.

His friend Kevin Morris shares some details of that final show:

Chris Cornell's friend, Detroit artist and musician Kevin Morris, who attended the singer's final show with SOUNGARDEN on Wednesday (May 17) at Detroit's Fox Theatre, has told People.com that something was definitely wrong with Chris at the gig. "The whole performance, you could tell something wasn't right," Morris said. "Into the second song, he started getting disoriented or something. I just figured he wasn't feeling well. Everybody felt there was something going on," Morris continued. "Like he wasn't with us. Like he was on a cloud. It was like he was really fighting to get through the show." He added: "What was troubling him I don't think we'll ever know. I think he was a little nervous about playing in Detroit, the music capital of the world, and he took a little too much of the Ativan."


Read more at [www.blabbermouth.net]

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

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StonedInTokyo
life expectancy has never been higher.

"Expectancy" is a bit of a qualifying word -- it didn't help James Dean much, or Buddy Holly, did it?

The human life span is the same as it's always been -- 120 years or so.

All the rest is circumstance: [gerontology.wikia.com]

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Dan
P
Mark Lanegan of Screaming Trees tours all the time as a solo artist. Saw him once with Sean Wheeler & Zander Schloss opening. Also saw Screaming Trees once but they were completely blown away by Rage Against The Machine who's album had been out for only a few months.

Mark Pickerel is a friend of mine. I lived in Ellensburg WA in the late 90s where the ST are from (and Mark owned a record store)

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Hairball

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keefriffhard4life
it was implied that most 80's rock bands didn't have any good musicians in the band

I just skimmed through entire thread, and still don't see that - not even an implication.
What I see is people dismissing those bands as simply being bad and hard on the ears - nothing about bad musicianship.
Maybe I'm missing something, or maybe you're reading too much into the criticism and coming up with the wrong conclusion.

you must have missed this comment


Whereas most (hard) rock bands of the 80's delved back on either Van Halen or Stones/Faces type rock, the grunge bands took their inspiration much more from Led Zep and Black Sabbath type of bands. Also, most of the Grunge bands had really accomplished players, really good guitarists and drummers.




saying "also most of the grunge band had really accomplished players" is clearly implying based on the previous sentence about rock bands of the 80's that those 80's rock bands didn't have accomplished players.

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keefriffhard4life

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Hairball

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keefriffhard4life
it was implied that most 80's rock bands didn't have any good musicians in the band

I just skimmed through entire thread, and still don't see that - not even an implication.
What I see is people dismissing those bands as simply being bad and hard on the ears - nothing about bad musicianship.
Maybe I'm missing something, or maybe you're reading too much into the criticism and coming up with the wrong conclusion.

you must have missed this comment


Whereas most (hard) rock bands of the 80's delved back on either Van Halen or Stones/Faces type rock, the grunge bands took their inspiration much more from Led Zep and Black Sabbath type of bands. Also, most of the Grunge bands had really accomplished players, really good guitarists and drummers.




saying "also most of the grunge band had really accomplished players" is clearly implying based on the previous sentence about rock bands of the 80's that those 80's rock bands didn't have accomplished players.

I did see that, and it's an issue of semantics as I believe English is a second language from that poster. It might come across as a bit awkward, but seems he was just complimenting the 'grunge' players for their musicianship, not making comparisons, and follows that by saying "the attitude was different: instead of wanting to achieve this larger than life Rock god persona most 80's bands had". to emphasize his point and his preference over the '80s bands. Either way, no big deal, and maybe that poster will clarify what he meant for you.

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Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2017-05-21 10:55 by Hairball.