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gotdablouse
In any case it's pretty appalling that the Glimmer Twins have practically nothing to show for the past 20 years other than laughing all the way to the bank again and again after fleecing the fans. Such a waste...

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drewmaster

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gotdablouse
In any case it's pretty appalling that the Glimmer Twins have practically nothing to show for the past 20 years other than laughing all the way to the bank again and again after fleecing the fans. Such a waste...

OUCH!! That's maybe the most scathing comment I've ever read about the band.

Not that I necessarily disagree, though!

Drew

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rbp
Is there any real evidence that Keith has a problem with the album or is it just the usual speculation or BS?

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Rockman
Brown Sugar .... hhhhaaaaaaaaa

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DandelionPowderman

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Doxa
Well, since this is Mick and Keith's last collobaration creatively, let them enjoy arguing over the product. They probably don't know any other way to get something done. That's part of the Glimmer Twins charm: fight, have a compromise solution, and laugh all the way to bank...

But seemingly there is the record company on one hand, wanting the album out still this year, and the band on the other, wanting to coin it with a tour. But if the initial plan had realized, we probably would already or very soon have the album in our hands, and tickets in our pockets to the American tour. So the album was pretty ready to go some time ago. Seemingly pragmatic Keith was okay with that then.

But then the tour was cancelled, and there was no hurry any longer with the album. Hmm... Since no hurry any longer, and the band, unlike their record company, not that willing to release it without a tour, how handy it was now for Keith to start complaining about some details about the album. And meanwhile, while UMG people trying to convince them to put the album out during the fall, Mick, keeping his appearances, is explaining them 'Yeah, I know you guys want to have the album out for Christmas sales and everything, but look, we have a terrible artistic disagreement. So sorry, the album is not ready. But I guess it will be sorted out by next year'...

- Doxa

I don't think Keith has complained publicly himself. I only ready someone else referring to Keith not being too happy with «modern producer-tactics» (paraphrasing).

Have The Stones cut a deal with Universal where they license the upcoming album to them? I thought they were in a position to evaluate different deals? If so, this might be one of the reasons why this is taking so long.

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UrbanSteel
If Keith doesn't know what Andrew Watt is capable of, he should watch this youtube video.
[...]

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rbp
Is there any real evidence that Keith has a problem with the album or is it just the usual speculation or BS?

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georgelicks
[www.plasticosydecibelios.com]

"Then, there are problems to finish the hypothetical album, which they want to support with a tour, because if not, it doesn't make sense to finish it. Universal has it planned for the fall. The album in which Paul McCartney plays bass on one song. Now they are in the same company

But, apparently, Keith Richards does not agree with the production tactics of the fashion producer with whom they have worked, Andrew Watt, a specialist in resurrecting other veterans, with the albums of Ozzy Osbourne and Iggy Pop."

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gotdablouse
"The Spanish site, linked by georgelicks, from where we got the latest rumours (that I think sound pretty trustworthy) emphasized that it is Universal wanting to release the album during the autumn. The band not, since no tour."

I didn't realize that posted hinted at a disagreement between UMG and the band ? On the contrary it seemed there was a plan to do a lot of promo around the album, or was that just UMG's plan/wishful thinking ?

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Doxa

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gotdablouse
"The Spanish site, linked by georgelicks, from where we got the latest rumours (that I think sound pretty trustworthy) emphasized that it is Universal wanting to release the album during the autumn. The band not, since no tour."

I didn't realize that posted hinted at a disagreement between UMG and the band ? On the contrary it seemed there was a plan to do a lot of promo around the album, or was that just UMG's plan/wishful thinking ?

Well, the disagreement was my interpretation of the situation. Literally it just states that Universal had planned to release it during the fall, probably in order to go with the postponed tour, but seemingly that is off now, since, of course, the band - and the tour - is the boss here.

EDIT: or could it be you are referring to the earlier posts by Christiano Radtke (40x5 Tributo bar instagram) and georgelicks? The ones that made the situation look so bright, until the Spanish one killing the positive vibe almost immediately? (Pages 643-644 here)

- Doxa

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retired_dog

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Doxa

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gotdablouse
"The Spanish site, linked by georgelicks, from where we got the latest rumours (that I think sound pretty trustworthy) emphasized that it is Universal wanting to release the album during the autumn. The band not, since no tour."

I didn't realize that posted hinted at a disagreement between UMG and the band ? On the contrary it seemed there was a plan to do a lot of promo around the album, or was that just UMG's plan/wishful thinking ?

Well, the disagreement was my interpretation of the situation. Literally it just states that Universal had planned to release it during the fall, probably in order to go with the postponed tour, but seemingly that is off now, since, of course, the band - and the tour - is the boss here.

EDIT: or could it be you are referring to the earlier posts by Christiano Radtke (40x5 Tributo bar instagram) and georgelicks? The ones that made the situation look so bright, until the Spanish one killing the positive vibe almost immediately? (Pages 643-644 here)

- Doxa

In the end, Promotone is the label which finances the whole thing and Universal is "just" the distributor, so - unless a more specific deal concerning the new album was made - Universal can just make proposals or utter wishes but don't have a stake in the decision making, that's solely the realm of Promotone (=the Stones).

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Doxa

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retired_dog

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Doxa

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gotdablouse
"The Spanish site, linked by georgelicks, from where we got the latest rumours (that I think sound pretty trustworthy) emphasized that it is Universal wanting to release the album during the autumn. The band not, since no tour."

I didn't realize that posted hinted at a disagreement between UMG and the band ? On the contrary it seemed there was a plan to do a lot of promo around the album, or was that just UMG's plan/wishful thinking ?

Well, the disagreement was my interpretation of the situation. Literally it just states that Universal had planned to release it during the fall, probably in order to go with the postponed tour, but seemingly that is off now, since, of course, the band - and the tour - is the boss here.

EDIT: or could it be you are referring to the earlier posts by Christiano Radtke (40x5 Tributo bar instagram) and georgelicks? The ones that made the situation look so bright, until the Spanish one killing the positive vibe almost immediately? (Pages 643-644 here)

- Doxa

In the end, Promotone is the label which finances the whole thing and Universal is "just" the distributor, so - unless a more specific deal concerning the new album was made - Universal can just make proposals or utter wishes but don't have a stake in the decision making, that's solely the realm of Promotone (=the Stones).

Indeed. It would be interesting to know how the new releases by the band are contractually done. For example, nowadays it asks some for distributors to get ready to put the product on sale. And then all that promotion etc. that planned out. One might think that there had been some deal already done between Promotone and Universal if there'd been some serious plans to release the album this year, like I think there'd been. But then what sort of deal that is, and how much Universal had a say there. Or has now.

But from the base I'd been following their actions lately, to me it looks like that Universal and The Stones seem to go hand in hand pretty well, and they listen each other. For example, Universal had a big role in convincing Mick that BLUE&LONESOME was a worthy release when Mick had his doubts.

- Doxa

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treaclefingers

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drewmaster

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gotdablouse
In any case it's pretty appalling that the Glimmer Twins have practically nothing to show for the past 20 years other than laughing all the way to the bank again and again after fleecing the fans. Such a waste...

OUCH!! That's maybe the most scathing comment I've ever read about the band.

Not that I necessarily disagree, though!

Drew

I think the comment is ludicrous. How have the fans been fleeced? They've put on amazing shows that people have loved. Who is fleeced?

They originated the "lucky dip" concept for the swirling masses that don't want to pay high prices. No one else has done that.

If the bitching is about a lack of new music, that's a separate issue, but as you didn't pay for anything, how are you fleeced? Emotionally?

I've got a song from 1980 you should listen to.

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Doxa

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DandelionPowderman

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Doxa
Well, since this is Mick and Keith's last collobaration creatively, let them enjoy arguing over the product. They probably don't know any other way to get something done. That's part of the Glimmer Twins charm: fight, have a compromise solution, and laugh all the way to bank...

But seemingly there is the record company on one hand, wanting the album out still this year, and the band on the other, wanting to coin it with a tour. But if the initial plan had realized, we probably would already or very soon have the album in our hands, and tickets in our pockets to the American tour. So the album was pretty ready to go some time ago. Seemingly pragmatic Keith was okay with that then.

But then the tour was cancelled, and there was no hurry any longer with the album. Hmm... Since no hurry any longer, and the band, unlike their record company, not that willing to release it without a tour, how handy it was now for Keith to start complaining about some details about the album. And meanwhile, while UMG people trying to convince them to put the album out during the fall, Mick, keeping his appearances, is explaining them 'Yeah, I know you guys want to have the album out for Christmas sales and everything, but look, we have a terrible artistic disagreement. So sorry, the album is not ready. But I guess it will be sorted out by next year'...

- Doxa

I don't think Keith has complained publicly himself. I only ready someone else referring to Keith not being too happy with «modern producer-tactics» (paraphrasing).

Have The Stones cut a deal with Universal where they license the upcoming album to them? I thought they were in a position to evaluate different deals? If so, this might be one of the reasons why this is taking so long.

I have the picture that the renewed deal from 2018 with UMG covers all of their "present and future projects", like they announced back then. Even though the contract relies on 'taking care of their back catalogue', I think it is beefed up by some (publicly non-spesified) new releases the band provides from time to time for Universal to put out. I guess technically the new album belongs to the same class as HONK, GHS and TY reissues and EL MOCAMBO. It looks like Universal has now put all of its hope on the new album, since no other release in the horizon (as far as I know). The Spanish site, linked by georgelicks, from where we got the latest rumours (that I think sound pretty trustworthy) emphasized that it is Universal wanting to release the album during the autumn. The band not, since no tour. Both logical stances.

Altogether The Stones are so tightly connected to UMG and its companies in different areas of business (merchandise, promotion, storage, etc) that I think it is very unlikely that they could go wild and release the album by any other label. If that is even technically possible. At least before 2028 when the recent contract expires. But of course, what is five years to wait, if there is a better deal to get..

- Doxa

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Doxa

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gotdablouse
"The Spanish site, linked by georgelicks, from where we got the latest rumours (that I think sound pretty trustworthy) emphasized that it is Universal wanting to release the album during the autumn. The band not, since no tour."

I didn't realize that posted hinted at a disagreement between UMG and the band ? On the contrary it seemed there was a plan to do a lot of promo around the album, or was that just UMG's plan/wishful thinking ?

Well, the disagreement was my interpretation of the situation. Literally it just states that Universal had planned to release it during the fall, probably in order to go with the postponed tour, but seemingly that is off now, since, of course, the band - and the tour - is the boss here.

EDIT: or could it be you are referring to the earlier posts by Christiano Radtke (40x5 Tributo bar instagram) and georgelicks? The ones that made the situation look so bright, until the Spanish one killing the positive vibe almost immediately? (Pages 643-644 here)

- Doxa

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GasLightStreet

Let's put that into math:

20 is a bit precise, because in 2012 there was Doom And Gloom and Don't Stop.

OK so let's say from 2013 onward:

BLUE AND LONESOME in 2016 (barely).

Living In A Ghost Town in 2019.

Aside from the reissues and solo material, yeah, that's hardly anything - but given how they are these days (since 2005), it is what it is and it's not "nothing".

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bitusa2012

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GasLightStreet

Let's put that into math:

20 is a bit precise, because in 2012 there was Doom And Gloom and Don't Stop.

OK so let's say from 2013 onward:

BLUE AND LONESOME in 2016 (barely).

Living In A Ghost Town in 2019.

Aside from the reissues and solo material, yeah, that's hardly anything - but given how they are these days (since 2005), it is what it is and it's not "nothing".

18 years. 4 -5 songs of original material. One of which, One More Shot, sounds like an unfinished demo. Pathetic from ANY creative rock band, but for The Stones? ABSOLUTELY PITIFUL.

The Worlds Greatest Rock and Roll Band has morphed into The Worlds Most Expensive (land locked) Cruise Ship Cover Band.

I’m so disappointed in them. Charlie’s unfortunate demise should have hurried them into finishing off the album. They act like time is on their side. It ain’t. Nor is it on mine. I don’t understand anyone defending their lack of desire, creativity. Call it a day lads.

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bitusa2012

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GasLightStreet

Let's put that into math:

20 is a bit precise, because in 2012 there was Doom And Gloom and Don't Stop.

OK so let's say from 2013 onward:

BLUE AND LONESOME in 2016 (barely).

Living In A Ghost Town in 2019.

Aside from the reissues and solo material, yeah, that's hardly anything - but given how they are these days (since 2005), it is what it is and it's not "nothing".

18 years. 4 -5 songs of original material. One of which, One Shot, sounds like an unfinished demo. Pathetic from ANY creative rock band, but for The Stones? ABSOLUTELY PITIFUL.

The Worlds Greatest Rock and Roll Band has morphed into The Worlds Most Expensive (land locked) Cruise Ship Cover Band.

I’m so disappointed in them. Charlie’s unfortunate demise should have hurried them into finishing off the album. They act like time is on their side. It ain’t. Nor is it on mine. I don’t understand anyone defending their lack of desire, creativity. Call it a day lads.

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DandelionPowderman

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bitusa2012

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GasLightStreet

Let's put that into math:

20 is a bit precise, because in 2012 there was Doom And Gloom and Don't Stop.

OK so let's say from 2013 onward:

BLUE AND LONESOME in 2016 (barely).

Living In A Ghost Town in 2019.

Aside from the reissues and solo material, yeah, that's hardly anything - but given how they are these days (since 2005), it is what it is and it's not "nothing".

18 years. 4 -5 songs of original material. One of which, One More Shot, sounds like an unfinished demo. Pathetic from ANY creative rock band, but for The Stones? ABSOLUTELY PITIFUL.

The Worlds Greatest Rock and Roll Band has morphed into The Worlds Most Expensive (land locked) Cruise Ship Cover Band.

I’m so disappointed in them. Charlie’s unfortunate demise should have hurried them into finishing off the album. They act like time is on their side. It ain’t. Nor is it on mine. I don’t understand anyone defending their lack of desire, creativity. Call it a day lads.

Why does it sound like a demo? It's rather well-produced, imo, with the «na, na, na»-choir and all.

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bitusa2012
18 years. 4 -5 songs of original material....Pathetic from ANY creative rock band, but for The Stones? ABSOLUTELY PITIFUL.

I’m so disappointed in them. Charlie’s unfortunate demise should have hurried them into finishing off the album. They act like time is on their side. It ain’t. Nor is it on mine. I don’t understand anyone defending their lack of desire, creativity. Call it a day lads.

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bitusa2012

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GasLightStreet

Let's put that into math:

20 is a bit precise, because in 2012 there was Doom And Gloom and Don't Stop.

OK so let's say from 2013 onward:

BLUE AND LONESOME in 2016 (barely).

Living In A Ghost Town in 2019.

Aside from the reissues and solo material, yeah, that's hardly anything - but given how they are these days (since 2005), it is what it is and it's not "nothing".

18 years. 4 -5 songs of original material. One of which, One Shot, sounds like an unfinished demo. Pathetic from ANY creative rock band, but for The Stones? ABSOLUTELY PITIFUL.

The Worlds Greatest Rock and Roll Band has morphed into The Worlds Most Expensive (land locked) Cruise Ship Cover Band.

I’m so disappointed in them. Charlie’s unfortunate demise should have hurried them into finishing off the album. They act like time is on their side. It ain’t. Nor is it on mine. I don’t understand anyone defending their lack of desire, creativity. Call it a day lads.

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georgelicks

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bitusa2012

Quote
GasLightStreet

Let's put that into math:

20 is a bit precise, because in 2012 there was Doom And Gloom and Don't Stop.

OK so let's say from 2013 onward:

BLUE AND LONESOME in 2016 (barely).

Living In A Ghost Town in 2019.

Aside from the reissues and solo material, yeah, that's hardly anything - but given how they are these days (since 2005), it is what it is and it's not "nothing".

18 years. 4 -5 songs of original material. One of which, One Shot, sounds like an unfinished demo. Pathetic from ANY creative rock band, but for The Stones? ABSOLUTELY PITIFUL.

The Worlds Greatest Rock and Roll Band has morphed into The Worlds Most Expensive (land locked) Cruise Ship Cover Band.

I’m so disappointed in them. Charlie’s unfortunate demise should have hurried them into finishing off the album. They act like time is on their side. It ain’t. Nor is it on mine. I don’t understand anyone defending their lack of desire, creativity. Call it a day lads.

Actually, only 3 new original songs released since 2005: Doom and Gloom, One More Shot and Living In A Ghost Town.

The sad reality is that the group as a unit that released albums and toured ended in 2006-2007, there were many doubts if they would get back together during those years (2008-2012) to work again or just focus on releasing vault material (Exile/Some Girls deluxe) or solo projects (Superheavy, Crosseyed Heart, Ronnie's solo record).

In August 2012 they entered the studio together for the first time in 7 years and recorded 2 songs for GRRR and decided to try touring again, everything since then is a bonus in the Stones' career and it is more than evident that, at least Mick, does not want to release second-rate material that deteriorates the legacy of the group and that's why a new album takes so long... let's add age, Charlie's death, the pandemic and the situation of the industry that makes it totally irrelevant for any group or artist of advanced age to release records that do not sell anything in a market dominated by streaming.

I wish the Stones had put out 2-3 new records since 2005, or Mick solo records at least... but it is what it is, you can't always get what you want.