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ProfessorWolfQuote
doitywoik
I recall Ronnie saying in a book about the Paris sessions that they recorded enough songs for an album but didn't have the time to actually finish it. (I never get the title right so I won't make another, possibly misleading, attempt). I also remember that Ronnie said there that they also asked him if he had something to bring to the table.
So it would be interesting to know how many songs they actually recorded or worked on (not counting mere warm-up grooves such as Well Well or Strange Western Grip), and what happened to Ronnie's song(s). Did it (or they) end up on I Feel Like Playing, or was it (they) ditched or forgotten about?
Apart from Ronnie, I can't recall any of them talking about the Paris Sessions 2002, nor can I recall Ronnie talking about it in a different place. Someone should ask them if the occasion arises. Maybe Ronnie is more accessible here than Mick or Keith?
Lyrics apart, Cried Out, Dreams, Love Is A (Test), When I Call Out Your Name and You Don’t Wanna Be Me sound pretty worked out, more than just sketches or idea-finding jam attempts in the studio. If there is more such stuff, leakers: Please leak it!
what your thinking of is the book "according to the rolling stones" they talk about forty licks on page 298-305
ronnie says the they recorded a lot of songs during those sessions and besides what ended up on of the forty licks set they came up with another 24 songs (a very specific number for him to just throw out!) and that they had the basis of a new album but got caught up in the tour and didn't have time to do overdubs and finish it
he also says he contributed some song ideas as well at mick's request and that mick and keith were getting along and working well together
charlie also mentions that he worked with mick before the sessions on demos
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Doxa
If the starting point is STEEL WHEELS sessions, I don't think there is a danger of the album being incohesive in terms of music coming from different eras. Basically the band hasn't change one bit from those sessions. For example, they could easily use backing tracks from there, do whatever finishing touches, and that will be alright. The result would sound as current or old-fashionable like any Stones recording since then.
- Doxa
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NikkeiQuote
ProfessorWolfQuote
doitywoik
I recall Ronnie saying in a book about the Paris sessions that they recorded enough songs for an album but didn't have the time to actually finish it. (I never get the title right so I won't make another, possibly misleading, attempt). I also remember that Ronnie said there that they also asked him if he had something to bring to the table.
So it would be interesting to know how many songs they actually recorded or worked on (not counting mere warm-up grooves such as Well Well or Strange Western Grip), and what happened to Ronnie's song(s). Did it (or they) end up on I Feel Like Playing, or was it (they) ditched or forgotten about?
Apart from Ronnie, I can't recall any of them talking about the Paris Sessions 2002, nor can I recall Ronnie talking about it in a different place. Someone should ask them if the occasion arises. Maybe Ronnie is more accessible here than Mick or Keith?
Lyrics apart, Cried Out, Dreams, Love Is A (Test), When I Call Out Your Name and You Don’t Wanna Be Me sound pretty worked out, more than just sketches or idea-finding jam attempts in the studio. If there is more such stuff, leakers: Please leak it!
what your thinking of is the book "according to the rolling stones" they talk about forty licks on page 298-305
ronnie says the they recorded a lot of songs during those sessions and besides what ended up on of the forty licks set they came up with another 24 songs (a very specific number for him to just throw out!) and that they had the basis of a new album but got caught up in the tour and didn't have time to do overdubs and finish it
he also says he contributed some song ideas as well at mick's request and that mick and keith were getting along and working well together
charlie also mentions that he worked with mick before the sessions on demos
You're right that is very specific. Plus it's completely believable when you listen to the outtakes that we got to hear. But what I don't understand then, is why Mick and Keith, about two years later, felt the need to come up with all of A Bigger Bang practically from scratch?? Talk about "ditched"
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ProfessorWolfQuote
NikkeiQuote
ProfessorWolfQuote
doitywoik
I recall Ronnie saying in a book about the Paris sessions that they recorded enough songs for an album but didn't have the time to actually finish it. (I never get the title right so I won't make another, possibly misleading, attempt). I also remember that Ronnie said there that they also asked him if he had something to bring to the table.
So it would be interesting to know how many songs they actually recorded or worked on (not counting mere warm-up grooves such as Well Well or Strange Western Grip), and what happened to Ronnie's song(s). Did it (or they) end up on I Feel Like Playing, or was it (they) ditched or forgotten about?
Apart from Ronnie, I can't recall any of them talking about the Paris Sessions 2002, nor can I recall Ronnie talking about it in a different place. Someone should ask them if the occasion arises. Maybe Ronnie is more accessible here than Mick or Keith?
Lyrics apart, Cried Out, Dreams, Love Is A (Test), When I Call Out Your Name and You Don’t Wanna Be Me sound pretty worked out, more than just sketches or idea-finding jam attempts in the studio. If there is more such stuff, leakers: Please leak it!
what your thinking of is the book "according to the rolling stones" they talk about forty licks on page 298-305
ronnie says the they recorded a lot of songs during those sessions and besides what ended up on of the forty licks set they came up with another 24 songs (a very specific number for him to just throw out!) and that they had the basis of a new album but got caught up in the tour and didn't have time to do overdubs and finish it
he also says he contributed some song ideas as well at mick's request and that mick and keith were getting along and working well together
charlie also mentions that he worked with mick before the sessions on demos
You're right that is very specific. Plus it's completely believable when you listen to the outtakes that we got to hear. But what I don't understand then, is why Mick and Keith, about two years later, felt the need to come up with all of A Bigger Bang practically from scratch?? Talk about "ditched"
well at least one licks outtakes seems to be a early version of abb track it goes to reason that more then one abb song began in these sessions
but your right it is a question to ask why they supposedly started from scratch
one likely answer is ronnie's exaggerating the quality of those 24 songs
or mick and keith couldn't come to an agreement about what to continue developing after they revisited those 24 songs and decided it be easier to start from scratch
who knows
until we can hear a much more comprehensive collection of outtakes from those sessions it's all just speculation
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retired_dogQuote
ProfessorWolfQuote
doitywoik
I recall Ronnie saying in a book about the Paris sessions that they recorded enough songs for an album but didn't have the time to actually finish it. (I never get the title right so I won't make another, possibly misleading, attempt). I also remember that Ronnie said there that they also asked him if he had something to bring to the table.
So it would be interesting to know how many songs they actually recorded or worked on (not counting mere warm-up grooves such as Well Well or Strange Western Grip), and what happened to Ronnie's song(s). Did it (or they) end up on I Feel Like Playing, or was it (they) ditched or forgotten about?
Apart from Ronnie, I can't recall any of them talking about the Paris Sessions 2002, nor can I recall Ronnie talking about it in a different place. Someone should ask them if the occasion arises. Maybe Ronnie is more accessible here than Mick or Keith?
Lyrics apart, Cried Out, Dreams, Love Is A (Test), When I Call Out Your Name and You Don’t Wanna Be Me sound pretty worked out, more than just sketches or idea-finding jam attempts in the studio. If there is more such stuff, leakers: Please leak it!
what your thinking of is the book "according to the rolling stones" they talk about forty licks on page 298-305
ronnie says the they recorded a lot of songs during those sessions and besides what ended up on of the forty licks set they came up with another 24 songs (a very specific number for him to just throw out!) and that they had the basis of a new album but got caught up in the tour and didn't have time to do overdubs and finish it
he also says he contributed some song ideas as well at mick's request and that mick and keith were getting along and working well together
charlie also mentions that he worked with mick before the sessions on demos
People, I think you get a bit carried away by Ronnie's quote... Ronnie says a lot, but whoever believes the Stones recorded a quality album but threw it away because there was no time to finish it probably also still believes in Father Christmas, sorry to say that!
Hearing is believing, and if the 4 songs that actually made the grade for 40 Licks are anything to go by, the cream of the crop so to speak, I would not want to hear the rest. They're not bad actually, but pretty generic for a band like the Stones.
And the outtakes? Again, sorry to say that but I don't hear anything of real substance or a "Great Lost Stones Album" here - just more generic stuff that sounds wonderful on bootlegs but surely doesn't indicate a capital crime that the band did not feel inspired to develop them further (apart from morphing Cried Out into Laugh, I Nearly Died maybe). I'm pretty sure that if they had released a whole album from these sessions, it would have been slaughtered even more than ABB!
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Doxa
If the starting point is STEEL WHEELS sessions, I don't think there is a danger of the album being incohesive in terms of music coming from different eras. Basically the band hasn't change one bit from those sessions. For example, they could easily use backing tracks from there, do whatever finishing touches, and that will be alright. The result would sound as current or old-fashionable like any Stones recording since then.
- Doxa
And that's exactly the point why I would not worry about "cohesiveness" one bit at this moment.
Besides, there's also the possibility that while a song idea may be originating from 1989 or later it could nonetheless have been completely re-worked in 2022 or earlier by changing something in the songwriting structure (added bridge, an added chord, whatever) that would almost inevitably require a complete new recording instead of using the old backing track from way back then.
As always, I think we should discuss the final result when we actually get to hear it instead of putting our focus on imaginary problems that, while possible indeed, may in truth not materialize at all - like some here obviously seem to like!
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Rocky Dijon
I just read through the last few pages and realized [anonymous poster] is right. Mick has sucked since he went solo nearly forty years ago. The only good Stones songs are Keith songs. Keith should have stayed solo. I hate The Rolling Stones. I don't want the new album. I'm not even sure why I get up in the morning.
Or...I could look forward to a new album in 2023 and be positive. I'm not sure which outlook I prefer.
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The Sicilian
Nearly 2 million views and no album in sight.
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HairballQuote
The Sicilian
Nearly 2 million views and no album in sight.
New single hopefully coming soon, and if it's anywhere near as good as Living in a Ghost Town, some of us will rejoice.
But I really dread the thought of hearing it ruined in an Applebees commercial, though that seems the way these things go these days.
I must have heard the Start Me Up snippet a dozen times on the tv over the last two weeks while watching football games, and all I can think of when I hear it now it is greasy fattening chicken and ribs.
Worst case nightmare scenario - Applebees will be the promoter for the upcoming tour, and every new Stones song will be misused in advertisements throughout the tour and beyond. Say it ain't so!
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doitywoik
Apart from Ronnie, I can't recall any of them talking about the Paris Sessions 2002, nor can I recall Ronnie talking about it in a different place. Someone should ask them if the occasion arises. Maybe Ronnie is more accessible here than Mick or Keith?
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VoodooLounge13
LOL I don't think Applebee's has the means to sponsor a tour of that magnitude!!!
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gotdablouseQuote
doitywoik
Apart from Ronnie, I can't recall any of them talking about the Paris Sessions 2002, nor can I recall Ronnie talking about it in a different place. Someone should ask them if the occasion arises. Maybe Ronnie is more accessible here than Mick or Keith?
I'm pretty sure Keith drummed up (as usual) the material too, along the lines of "it's the best stuff we've done in years" (Gazza pointed out at the time that it would be correct since they hadn't recorded anything in 5 years!).
What remains a bit mysterious about these Paris sessions is that they were originally getting together to record 2 songs for 40 licks as mentioned at the "Blimp" PC. Keith actually said that the fact that they had yet to do that was "only a small problem" (or something like that).
Yet they spend 15 days at Guillaume Tell in Paris and come up with 20+ tracks ! Why bother if they only needed 2 songs and had to prepare for a tour...Maybe the studio was booked so why not. In the Licks DVD you can see a screen where you see tracks number and there are indeed 20+. I started a topic about that a good 10 years ago ;-) One of them was "Still In Love" I think...maybe the one that got leaked on FFSO ?
Found it (minus the screenshot) : [iorr.org] : "2002 Sessions in Paris - they did record 30+ songs !"
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ProfessorWolfQuote
NikkeiQuote
ProfessorWolfQuote
doitywoik
I recall Ronnie saying in a book about the Paris sessions that they recorded enough songs for an album but didn't have the time to actually finish it. (I never get the title right so I won't make another, possibly misleading, attempt). I also remember that Ronnie said there that they also asked him if he had something to bring to the table.
So it would be interesting to know how many songs they actually recorded or worked on (not counting mere warm-up grooves such as Well Well or Strange Western Grip), and what happened to Ronnie's song(s). Did it (or they) end up on I Feel Like Playing, or was it (they) ditched or forgotten about?
Apart from Ronnie, I can't recall any of them talking about the Paris Sessions 2002, nor can I recall Ronnie talking about it in a different place. Someone should ask them if the occasion arises. Maybe Ronnie is more accessible here than Mick or Keith?
Lyrics apart, Cried Out, Dreams, Love Is A (Test), When I Call Out Your Name and You Don’t Wanna Be Me sound pretty worked out, more than just sketches or idea-finding jam attempts in the studio. If there is more such stuff, leakers: Please leak it!
what your thinking of is the book "according to the rolling stones" they talk about forty licks on page 298-305
ronnie says the they recorded a lot of songs during those sessions and besides what ended up on of the forty licks set they came up with another 24 songs (a very specific number for him to just throw out!) and that they had the basis of a new album but got caught up in the tour and didn't have time to do overdubs and finish it
he also says he contributed some song ideas as well at mick's request and that mick and keith were getting along and working well together
charlie also mentions that he worked with mick before the sessions on demos
You're right that is very specific. Plus it's completely believable when you listen to the outtakes that we got to hear. But what I don't understand then, is why Mick and Keith, about two years later, felt the need to come up with all of A Bigger Bang practically from scratch?? Talk about "ditched"
well at least one licks outtakes seems to be a early version of abb track it goes to reason that more then one abb song began in these sessions
but your right it is a question to ask why they supposedly started from scratch
one likely answer is ronnie's exaggerating the quality of those 24 songs
or mick and keith couldn't come to an agreement about what to continue developing after they revisited those 24 songs and decided it be easier to start from scratch
who knows
until we can hear a much more comprehensive collection of outtakes from those sessions it's all just speculation
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GasLightStreetQuote
ProfessorWolfQuote
NikkeiQuote
ProfessorWolfQuote
doitywoik
I recall Ronnie saying in a book about the Paris sessions that they recorded enough songs for an album but didn't have the time to actually finish it. (I never get the title right so I won't make another, possibly misleading, attempt). I also remember that Ronnie said there that they also asked him if he had something to bring to the table.
So it would be interesting to know how many songs they actually recorded or worked on (not counting mere warm-up grooves such as Well Well or Strange Western Grip), and what happened to Ronnie's song(s). Did it (or they) end up on I Feel Like Playing, or was it (they) ditched or forgotten about?
Apart from Ronnie, I can't recall any of them talking about the Paris Sessions 2002, nor can I recall Ronnie talking about it in a different place. Someone should ask them if the occasion arises. Maybe Ronnie is more accessible here than Mick or Keith?
Lyrics apart, Cried Out, Dreams, Love Is A (Test), When I Call Out Your Name and You Don’t Wanna Be Me sound pretty worked out, more than just sketches or idea-finding jam attempts in the studio. If there is more such stuff, leakers: Please leak it!
what your thinking of is the book "according to the rolling stones" they talk about forty licks on page 298-305
ronnie says the they recorded a lot of songs during those sessions and besides what ended up on of the forty licks set they came up with another 24 songs (a very specific number for him to just throw out!) and that they had the basis of a new album but got caught up in the tour and didn't have time to do overdubs and finish it
he also says he contributed some song ideas as well at mick's request and that mick and keith were getting along and working well together
charlie also mentions that he worked with mick before the sessions on demos
You're right that is very specific. Plus it's completely believable when you listen to the outtakes that we got to hear. But what I don't understand then, is why Mick and Keith, about two years later, felt the need to come up with all of A Bigger Bang practically from scratch?? Talk about "ditched"
well at least one licks outtakes seems to be a early version of abb track it goes to reason that more then one abb song began in these sessions
but your right it is a question to ask why they supposedly started from scratch
one likely answer is ronnie's exaggerating the quality of those 24 songs
or mick and keith couldn't come to an agreement about what to continue developing after they revisited those 24 songs and decided it be easier to start from scratch
who knows
until we can hear a much more comprehensive collection of outtakes from those sessions it's all just speculation
Or... that was then.
How anyone could question what they did and then what they did considering all that they've done when they did what they did... and why... is, I mean, come on, they start 1A-30A, then 2A-30A whatever, and then... a new 1A... they started IORR with leftovers in mind from GHS. For that matter, through 1982k nothing had ever changed.
They clearly have no issues with "looking back" ie apparently every album from 1971-1983 from all I've read. Unfinished songs.
They recorded how many songs for UNDERCOVER? Yet Mick still said this:
Actually all these songs are all new. They were all written this year, last year, over a short base of time when we recorded. They're all new and none of 'em are from previous sessions. This is like 10 tracks that were chosen out of 15 that we actually finished.
- Mick Jagger, 1984
[www.timeisonourside.com]
He is slyly one to just provide what he wants people to hear/read.
19th March - 5th April: Munich, West-Germany, Musicland Studios. Producers:
The Glimmer Twins. Sound engineers: Keith Harwood, Reinhold Mack.
Additional musicians: Billy Preston (p, org)/Ollie Brown (perc)/Wayne Perkins
(gtr)/Harvey Mandel (gtr)/RW (gtr, bvoc; 30.3. - 4.4.75)
- Cellophane Trousers I (MJ/KR) -instrumental (uses Too Tough-riff)
- Cellophane Trousers II (MJ/KR) -version I with additional lead guitar
[www.nzentgraf.de]
Whatever the context is of the new Stones album it's not exactly 18 years in the making, it goes back to late 2015 as I recall... not that long ago, really. Yet, at this point later this year, 8 years.
Looking forward to it.
The deluxe reissues give a more specific eye to that albeit out of context - yet, in regard to the deal at the time, within the context.
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DandelionPowderman
I agree, totally. However, unfinished songs are not always rejected, but rather work in progress for a future release - like with many of the songs on TY.
7 out of 11 songs were 1-2 years old (the versions they worked on, anyway), so it's hard to label that album, really, imo
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Spud
I think sometimes they just go with the songs that come together the easiest...[not necessarily always the best songs] and then at some point they say.. ".. right, fed up now, we've got enough."
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bitusa2012
Why is SirJagger (I think Mick’s official Instagram account?) posting a picture of Keith on it today? Never done that before.
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Spud
I think sometimes they just go with the songs that come together the easiest...[not necessarily always the best songs] and then at some point they say.. ".. right, fed up now, we've got enough."
The unused songs then maybe come together better later...with the benefit of time and a different perspective.
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bye bye johnnyQuote
bitusa2012
Why is SirJagger (I think Mick’s official Instagram account?) posting a picture of Keith on it today? Never done that before.
Mick's official Instagram account - [www.instagram.com]
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Spud
I think sometimes they just go with the songs that come together the easiest...[not necessarily always the best songs] and then at some point they say.. ".. right, fed up now, we've got enough."
The unused songs then maybe come together better later...with the benefit of time and a different perspective.