I think part of the problem is due to NFL coach inbreeding.
There is not a lot of new blood. It is a same ole boys club. A coaching merry go round... as if there are only 30-40 guys in the whole world who can coach in the NFL.

How many times do we see a coach fail, get fired, run out of town on a rail and then the next week he is lazily picked up by another team and given a job... and then he does not have much a success again... and that owner fires him again...and he is hired by another teem again


The NFL needs some new coaching blood.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2017-02-17 03:03 by HankM.

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umakmehrd
I'm can't stand Brady or the Patriots....
But on SuperBowl Sunday Feb 5th, 2017 he became the greatest QB of all time!! you cannot argue differently - It pains me to no end to say that but he is.
Montana - Manning are now in his rearview...


Oh and the SeaHawks will be back in the big game next year!!! woop woop !!

seahawks will get caught again for cheating as long as petes the coach. 2 years with PED issues, some illegal practices, now not putting Sherman on the injury report. he is a shady character

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James Kirk
Tom Brady is without question the greatest qb of all time. This is not even worth arguing. The man has won five SB’s and been in seven in 16 years of starting.

And for the people who claim Brady is “lucky” to have won five championships I would argue the exact opposite. Brady should have won at least two more, but lost two SB’s to the Giants on two of the luckiest catches in the history of the NFL...And while we are on the subject, I would argue the Patriots lost another SB during an AFC Championship vs the Colts when the entire team had the flu and lost a huge halftime lead.

If the Patriots had any luck at all they would have eight rings instead of five...Love the Patriots or hate them,they are the best the NFL has ever seen.

P.S. Did I mention they are odds on favorites to win next years Super Bowl?

That's a load of nonsense. They should not have even been in the second Super Bowl against the Giants. The guy on the Ravens missed a 35 yard field goal to tie the game immediately after the Ravens were 3 inches away from winning the game in regulation.

They maybe should not have even been in the Super Bowl against the Seahawks. The Ravens easily could have won that year's play-off game as well. They had to rely on trick plays to come back in that one ..... only after the Patriots' running back fumbling the ball behind by two scores and the officials incorrectly calling him down.

They DEFINITELY should not have been playing in the Super Bowl against the Rams. Everyone knows that.

This stuff happens almost every time they win the championship.

The Colts came back from a large deficit but didn't need the opposing team to pass up a field goal opportunity to essentially seal the game. (As what happened a couple of weeks ago.)

The Patriots last 2 championships have been gifted to them. It's amazing. In 51 Super Bowls,how many times has this happened?? Super Bowl 25 , Super Bowl 5 maybe , when else ?? Usually the game ends and it is pretty certain who the best team is. Almost never the case when New England is involved.

The '90's Cowboys would have walked all over these Patriots. The talent on the Patriots roster pales in comparison to the talent on those 3 rosters. The Patriots have maybe three or four players who could have started on those teams. Dallas had to go through the '90's San Francisco teams and not Brock Osweiler and the Houston Texans.

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Winning Ugly VXII

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James Kirk
Tom Brady is without question the greatest qb of all time. This is not even worth arguing. The man has won five SB’s and been in seven in 16 years of starting.

And for the people who claim Brady is “lucky” to have won five championships I would argue the exact opposite. Brady should have won at least two more, but lost two SB’s to the Giants on two of the luckiest catches in the history of the NFL...And while we are on the subject, I would argue the Patriots lost another SB during an AFC Championship vs the Colts when the entire team had the flu and lost a huge halftime lead.

If the Patriots had any luck at all they would have eight rings instead of five...Love the Patriots or hate them,they are the best the NFL has ever seen.

P.S. Did I mention they are odds on favorites to win next years Super Bowl?

That's a load of nonsense. They should not have even been in the second Super Bowl against the Giants. The guy on the Ravens missed a 35 yard field goal to tie the game immediately after the Ravens were 3 inches away from winning the game in regulation.

They maybe should not have even been in the Super Bowl against the Seahawks. The Ravens easily could have won that year's play-off game as well. They had to rely on trick plays to come back in that one ..... only after the Patriots' running back fumbling the ball behind by two scores and the officials incorrectly calling him down.

They DEFINITELY should not have been playing in the Super Bowl against the Rams. Everyone knows that.

This stuff happens almost every time they win the championship.

The Colts came back from a large deficit but didn't need the opposing team to pass up a field goal opportunity to essentially seal the game. (As what happened a couple of weeks ago.)

The Patriots last 2 championships have been gifted to them. It's amazing. In 51 Super Bowls,how many times has this happened?? Super Bowl 25 , Super Bowl 5 maybe , when else ?? Usually the game ends and it is pretty certain who the best team is. Almost never the case when New England is involved.

The '90's Cowboys would have walked all over these Patriots. The talent on the Patriots roster pales in comparison to the talent on those 3 rosters. The Patriots have maybe three or four players who could have started on those teams. Dallas had to go through the '90's San Francisco teams and not Brock Osweiler and the Houston Texans.

The current Patriots way is unique and not always the best approach to having as much success as they've had. Belichick does a great job of getting the roster on the same page though and the record speaks for itself. Now it's on to free agency and the draft right around the corner. I hope they don't let Hightower go, that would be a shame.

keefriffhard - Stick to the Stones you don't know football. Ask the former players on NFL Network, ESPN etc. All are now saying the debate is OVER! Brady and Montana in a class by themselves. END OF STORY.

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slew
keefriffhard - Stick to the Stones you don't know football. Ask the former players on NFL Network, ESPN etc. All are now saying the debate is OVER! Brady and Montana in a class by themselves. END OF STORY.

why are you calling me out? Others here are saying it too. Some people still say dan marino is the best. Not everyone is a brainwashed stooge who drinks the koolaid being spouted on espn. I gave my reasons. They are clear, concise and well stated. He was successful in college and then in the nfl with different teams, coaches, offenses, etc. Brady was slightly better than average in college and been with the same coach and team his entire nfl career and oh btw whenever brady is out the team keeps on winning with QBs are have no experience

keefriffhard - I dont always agree with you on things, which is a good thing, it keeps things interesting, but you have it right about brady, no matter what the homers feel... or what the talking heads on espn say (they are very wrong very often about many things)( which is understandable considering all of the concussions) The debate is NOT OVER!

Montana, Farve, Marino and others proved themselves to be NFL all time greats, but we will have to see what happens to brady. The Patriots first half debacle in the last game this year is NOT how "best of all time" do things. I understand that it is easy for homers to ignore that first half, but that was not great football play.


I might begrudgingly admit that Bellecheat is an all time great NFL coach (although Don Shula might not agree with me). He is mostly responsible for making brady look good. In another system brady may have washed out of the league years ago.

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HankM
keefriffhard - I dont always agree with you on things, which is a good thing, it keeps things interesting, but you have it right about brady, no matter what the homers feel... or what the talking heads on espn say (they are very wrong very often about many things)( which is understandable considering all of the concussions) The debate is NOT OVER!

Montana, Farve, Marino and others proved themselves to be NFL all time greats, but we will have to see what happens to brady. The Patriots first half debacle in the last game this year is NOT how "best of all time" do things. I understand that it is easy for homers to ignore that first half, but that was not great football play.


I might begrudgingly admit that Bellecheat is an all time great NFL coach (although Don Shula might not agree with me). He is mostly responsible for making brady look good. In another system brady may have washed out of the league years ago.

my order for top 10 modern era nfl QBs
1 peyton
2 brady
3 montana
4 marino
5 elway
6 brees
7 favre
8 aikman
9 big ben
10 warner


hard really to judge the guys who started before 1980. the game was so different then. but we all know several QBs from dallas and green bay would make that list plus QBs from the colts, redskins maybe even namath



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2017-02-19 04:13 by keefriffhard4life.

Good list, I respect it... I dont agree, but I respect it.

I wont make a list... but if I did, brady would not be that high on it.
I usually state my rankings not as ranking but as "my favorite QBs" versus demanding that the rest of the world all agree one guy in the best of all time.

Rankings depend on if a QB is judged based only on results and stats in the record books... or if I judge them based on what I saw that a QB was capable of doing on the gridiron. I give credit where credit is due and I have seen some NFL QBs that should have, could have, might have been house hold name super stars, winning many Championships, but for one (more like 20-30) reason(s) or another they fell by the wayside. Some of my all time best QBs would not be very popular, and easy to shoot down on an anonymous message board, so I hold back posting them. It takes more than talent to be top of the heap.

I agree brady is good, he is a good cog in a "plug and play system" where every position can be replaced and that includes him too. When he was out for a year they plugged in a new QB and the new guy did did good too, and if one watched, when that guy moved on to another system/team/coach he did not do as well, although he made a helluva lot of money.


As I said...
I dont like belecheat, but I have to respect his... whatever it is he does.
He knows how to win in the NFL.
I give him the credit for what NE fans have been blessed with... not the QB.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2017-02-19 05:22 by HankM.

to be fair matt cassels best year in the nfl was actually his 2nd year with KC so he wasn't a failure after that. his 3rd season in KC he suffered a hand injury and his throw has been off since then.


that still doesn't explain this though

[www.youtube.com]

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keefriffhard4life
.....
.... this ..

[www.youtube.com]

... that type of sht is all I remember of him in KC

Glassel and that fkg POS GM of his... came in to KC and... fk...
it was like a long con conspiracy to pay back KC back for the leg breaking

Those guys and those teams were fukingdisaterbacles...
but they sure made a sht-ton of money for not having one post season win

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HankM

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keefriffhard4life
.....
.... this ..

[www.youtube.com]

... that type of sht is all I remember of him in KC

Glassel and that fkg POS GM of his... came in to KC and... fk...
it was like a long con conspiracy to pay back KC back for the leg breaking

Those guys and those teams were fukingdisaterbacles...
but they sure made a sht-ton of money for not having one post season win

cassel went 10-5 his 2nd year at KC, the same record he was credited with the year he started at new england. since brady started the first game that year and cassel relieved brady after the injury brady gets credit for that game since he was the starter.

cassel threw 27TDs and 7 INTs that 2nd year in KC. in new england the 2008 season he threw 21 TDs and 11 INTs. he threw for more yards in new england but also threw almost 80 more passes and had a worse completion percentage

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keefriffhard4life

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HankM

Quote
keefriffhard4life
.....
.... this ..

[www.youtube.com]

... that type of sht is all I remember of him in KC

Glassel and that fkg POS GM of his... came in to KC and... fk...
it was like a long con conspiracy to pay back KC back for the leg breaking

Those guys and those teams were fukingdisaterbacles...
but they sure made a sht-ton of money for not having one post season win

cassel went 10-5 his 2nd year at KC, the same record he was credited with the year he started at new england. since brady started the first game that year and cassel relieved brady after the injury brady gets credit for that game since he was the starter.

cassel threw 27TDs and 7 INTs that 2nd year in KC. in new england the 2008 season he threw 21 TDs and 11 INTs. he threw for more yards in new england but also threw almost 80 more passes and had a worse completion percentage

[www.youtube.com]

In Dallas.... On Cassel's last play before being benched for Moore, he became the first quarterback in over twelve years to throw an interception that was also flagged for intentional grounding.[63] The play was designed to be a WR bubble screen, but Cassel held onto the ball after a pump-fake, then turned to look at the other side of the field. Forced to scramble to get away from the immediate pressure, thanks largely to most of the Dallas offensive linemen moving to the left side of the field to block for the presumed WR screen, Cassel stumbled and nearly fell over. Trying to salvage the play, Cassel threw the ball towards the right sideline. No Dallas receiver was in the area, and the ball failed to reach the sideline and was intercepted by Darrelle Revis. On top of the intentional grounding call against Cassel, there was also an illegal lineman downfield call against Dallas, as several offensive linemen had run downfield to block for what they assumed was a quick screen pass to a receiver. Both penalties were declined so that the interception would stand.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2017-02-19 06:18 by HankM.

fukingdisaterbacles is my new favorite word, in spite of the spelling, but on the subject at hand, just count the rings ladies.

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Natlanta
fukingdisaterbacles is my new favorite word, in spite of the spelling...

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HankM

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keefriffhard4life

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HankM

Quote
keefriffhard4life
.....
.... this ..

[www.youtube.com]

... that type of sht is all I remember of him in KC

Glassel and that fkg POS GM of his... came in to KC and... fk...
it was like a long con conspiracy to pay back KC back for the leg breaking

Those guys and those teams were fukingdisaterbacles...
but they sure made a sht-ton of money for not having one post season win

cassel went 10-5 his 2nd year at KC, the same record he was credited with the year he started at new england. since brady started the first game that year and cassel relieved brady after the injury brady gets credit for that game since he was the starter.

cassel threw 27TDs and 7 INTs that 2nd year in KC. in new england the 2008 season he threw 21 TDs and 11 INTs. he threw for more yards in new england but also threw almost 80 more passes and had a worse completion percentage

[www.youtube.com]

In Dallas.... On Cassel's last play before being benched for Moore, he became the first quarterback in over twelve years to throw an interception that was also flagged for intentional grounding.[63] The play was designed to be a WR bubble screen, but Cassel held onto the ball after a pump-fake, then turned to look at the other side of the field. Forced to scramble to get away from the immediate pressure, thanks largely to most of the Dallas offensive linemen moving to the left side of the field to block for the presumed WR screen, Cassel stumbled and nearly fell over. Trying to salvage the play, Cassel threw the ball towards the right sideline. No Dallas receiver was in the area, and the ball failed to reach the sideline and was intercepted by Darrelle Revis. On top of the intentional grounding call against Cassel, there was also an illegal lineman downfield call against Dallas, as several offensive linemen had run downfield to block for what they assumed was a quick screen pass to a receiver. Both penalties were declined so that the interception would stand.

i remember that play. to be fair dallas was a dumpster fire that year

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keefriffhard4life
to be fair matt cassels best year in the nfl was actually his 2nd year with KC so he wasn't a failure after that. his 3rd season in KC he suffered a hand injury and his throw has been off since then.


that still doesn't explain this though

[www.youtube.com]

His brain has also been "off" since then.

It didn't end well in Kansas City for him. He was horrible in Minnesota , cut from Buffalo and even more horrible in Dallas during the 2015 season. 5 or 6 decent quarters for him in Dallas and the rest was complete garbage. Compare the Dallas passing game from 2015 to 2014 and 2016. Cassel made a HUGE negative impact.

Keefriffhard - I am singling anyone out. Brady is the best ever. I'm not saying Manning is not close and others are not in the discussion. The Pats and Brady were off in the first half of LI they played poorly. Timing was off etc. Bad int by Tom where if he had looked off he would have seen Edelman open. Does not detract from the fact the Brady with a lot of help from his team orchestrated a great comeback which others have not done on that stage. I watch Tom weekly he is a phenomenal player, shreds defenses etc.
Your list is not bad. I would flipflop Brady ahead of Manning and include some old timers. To me Brett Favre is the most over rated qb in the history of the league. Bad decision after bad decision especially in big situations. Not saying he does not deserve to be in the HOF but he would not be in my top 5 and he may not make my top ten. I am not a homer my favorite team is actually Dallas but I have seen so much of Brady and many of the others you mention and Tom is the best and Montana would be my second choice and Manning third.

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slew
Keefriffhard - I am singling anyone out. Brady is the best ever. I'm not saying Manning is not close and others are not in the discussion. The Pats and Brady were off in the first half of LI they played poorly. Timing was off etc. Bad int by Tom where if he had looked off he would have seen Edelman open. Does not detract from the fact the Brady with a lot of help from his team orchestrated a great comeback which others have not done on that stage. I watch Tom weekly he is a phenomenal player, shreds defenses etc.
Your list is not bad. I would flipflop Brady ahead of Manning and include some old timers. To me Brett Favre is the most over rated qb in the history of the league. Bad decision after bad decision especially in big situations. Not saying he does not deserve to be in the HOF but he would not be in my top 5 and he may not make my top ten. I am not a homer my favorite team is actually Dallas but I have seen so much of Brady and many of the others you mention and Tom is the best and Montana would be my second choice and Manning third.

i said why i didn't include any old timers, QBs who started pre 1980, because the game was so different. if we make a list of top 15 or so QBs ever most people would say bradshaw should be on there but by todays standards bradshaws numbers look like hot garbage despite the fact he was a pretty good QB for that time. favre didn't make my top 5 though. my list did exclude steve young,jim kelly and warren moon but not everyone can make it

as far as old timers of course a list would have the following guys up for discussion:

unitas
bradshaw
meredith
starr
baugh
blanda
dawson
fouts
namath
graham
griese
jurgensen
stabler
tarkenton
staubach

Drew Brees will quite possibly retire holding every NFL passing record there is. Consider that he's never had a consistent HOF/Pro Bowl/All Pro receiver like Peyton Manning or Brett Favre: what he's accomplished is incredible. 5000+ passing yards 5 times. That's crazy.

He may end up being a Top 5 all time QB strictly based on his abilities and records but it's probably safe to say that he will be ranked in the Top 10 Of All Time because of the lack of more than one Super Bowl. Such few playoff games will certainly have an impact on his ranking.

But he sure does own a lot of records. It doesn't matter, of course, who is number one, but when looking at the records of athletes like Drew Brees and Wayne Gretzky and quite a few others and understanding the games they play and how their records relate to other sports, they're beyond the best, they are of the greatest.