Tell Me :
Talk
I think it's this one.
That was the Sample-page of the 2018 Tongue Litho-set: [iorr.org] . They're now separately available: [TheRollingStonesShop.com] .
would you let me know where I can buy this t-shirt? thank-you.
Here: [Rockabilia.com] - [iorr.org] .
Maybe that's what '"finished"' means?
Hi Irix,
Not exactly. Braun received a faxed version of John Pasche's design. He went over it with Marshall Chess, saw the Aldridge drawing (it could be vise verse) and asked his highly skilled two in-house (I like that term) designers to "do something" nice with the two images input. Result: the great "USA version".
Something similar happened with the 1971 eyeless "Licks" version.
No offense Irix, but Braun did draw with a pen. He made initial sketches for his professional staff in both cases.
Interesting, never heard of it in the many years since the discussion about the T&L-Logo started - [iorr.org] .
Since my initially posts are not exactly enough, they're edited and/or deleted.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-09-18 20:45 by Irix.
Time flies! I was asked several years ago to do a thourough investigation and came in touch with Braun, Chess and several directly involved people, so that's how I got more details. I made a thread in which I "questioned" who designed the first logo and some interesting (sometimes heavy) responses resulted in that thread. In the end a closely involved person final told in part what happened (which I already knew at that time). That was the purpose of my thread and I spoke out my appreciation for his "coming out".
This one?
UnCovered-Interview with Ernie Cefalu (Dolls Alive Cover)
Looks like you're right with "created is not properly used", since Ernie Cefalu's description of his T&L-Logo says: "Because I was unable to retrieve my original Stones Tongue logo illustration done in 1971, I decided to re-create it in 2014. This isn't the original, but it's done by the guy who did it originally. - Ernie" -- [iorr.org] .
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2020-09-19 00:05 by Irix.
Wasn't Keith still going by Richard and not Richards in 1975?
Talk about your favorite band.
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Re: Rolling Stones Tongues
Posted by:
GasLightStreet
()
Date: August 31, 2020 04:15
Quote
IrixQuote
Donnebr
Is the poster available to buy?
What poster do you mean exactly?
I think it's this one.
Re: Rolling Stones Tongues
Posted by:
Irix
()
Date: September 1, 2020 16:55
Quote
GasLightStreetQuote
IrixQuote
Donnebr
Is the poster available to buy?
What poster do you mean exactly?
I think it's this one.
That was the Sample-page of the 2018 Tongue Litho-set: [iorr.org] . They're now separately available: [TheRollingStonesShop.com] .
Re: Rolling Stones Tongues
Posted by:
DREAMTIME
()
Date: September 1, 2020 19:02
Quote
exilestones
would you let me know where I can buy this t-shirt? thank-you.
Re: Rolling Stones Tongues
Posted by:
Irix
()
Date: September 1, 2020 19:06
Quote
DREAMTIME
would you let me know where I can buy this t-shirt?
Here: [Rockabilia.com] - [iorr.org] .
Re: Rolling Stones Tongues
Posted by:
Irix
()
Date: September 8, 2020 13:15
^^^^ Craig Braun is also the owner of the "Craig Braun, Inc." - so the 'Craig Braun'-caption above should be considered as the Company of the same name (Sound Packaging Corp. and Rockreations were divisions).
Craig Braun about designing the Tongue&Lips-Logo:
"I had decided that because it was the Rolling Stones' first release under their own label after leaving Decca Records (London in U.S.), to use this logo on the cover", Craig says. "Mick had commissioned a young art school student [John Pasche, who has since earned six figures for his sketches] in London to design a logo, but he had not completed a design. He'd only completed some sketches, rough sketches of it. And Marshall Chess [...] was in London, and I said to him, 'I want to put the design on the inner sleeve.' He said, 'Well, all I have is a rubber stamp from the sketch!' So I said for him to stamp it a few times, put it on a fax which, on a thermal fax machine, the quality is just shit, but I could see the silhouette of it, where the art student was going, very fuzzy, and about 3/4 of an inch, so I blew that up to about 12" and I had an illustrator working for me and I said, 'I want you to re-draft this for me.' After many a back-and-forth, trial-and-error fleshing-out with the illustrator, the Rolling Stones' tongue and lip logo as we now know it was being hatched." -- [www.Amoeba.com] - [Web.Archive.org] .
Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2020-09-18 20:50 by Irix.
Craig Braun about designing the Tongue&Lips-Logo:
"I had decided that because it was the Rolling Stones' first release under their own label after leaving Decca Records (London in U.S.), to use this logo on the cover", Craig says. "Mick had commissioned a young art school student [John Pasche, who has since earned six figures for his sketches] in London to design a logo, but he had not completed a design. He'd only completed some sketches, rough sketches of it. And Marshall Chess [...] was in London, and I said to him, 'I want to put the design on the inner sleeve.' He said, 'Well, all I have is a rubber stamp from the sketch!' So I said for him to stamp it a few times, put it on a fax which, on a thermal fax machine, the quality is just shit, but I could see the silhouette of it, where the art student was going, very fuzzy, and about 3/4 of an inch, so I blew that up to about 12" and I had an illustrator working for me and I said, 'I want you to re-draft this for me.' After many a back-and-forth, trial-and-error fleshing-out with the illustrator, the Rolling Stones' tongue and lip logo as we now know it was being hatched." -- [www.Amoeba.com] - [Web.Archive.org] .
Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2020-09-18 20:50 by Irix.
Re: Rolling Stones Tongues
Posted by:
GasLightStreet
()
Date: September 8, 2020 19:28
Maybe that's what '"finished"' means?
Re: Rolling Stones Tongues
Posted by:
georgie48
()
Date: September 8, 2020 19:45
Hi Irix,
Not exactly. Braun received a faxed version of John Pasche's design. He went over it with Marshall Chess, saw the Aldridge drawing (it could be vise verse) and asked his highly skilled two in-house (I like that term) designers to "do something" nice with the two images input. Result: the great "USA version".
Something similar happened with the 1971 eyeless "Licks" version.
Re: Rolling Stones Tongues
Posted by:
Irix
()
Date: September 8, 2020 20:50
Craig Braun and designing the Tongue&Lips-Logo:
"The release of Sticky Fingers coincided with the launch of The Stones’ label, Rolling Stones Records, which needed a logo. Conceived by art student John Pasche along with input from Jagger, Braun developed the original idea. “Marshall Chess was in London with Mick and Pasche working on the logo,” recalls Craig.
“Since it was a handmade album sleeve, I needed the logo done, so I got them to send me the basic ‘lips and tongue’ rough idea. It was based on images of The Goddess Kali Ma… suggested by Mick and Keith. With Mick and Pasche working on the unfinished logo, I needed the logo done for it to be included on Sticky Fingers, so I got Marshall to send me the basic rough sketch, which was simply a black rubber stamp.
Then I got my artists to blow up that silhouette using the original idea as a starting place and we went from there, refining it. I then sent one of my account guys over to London with the final Sticky Fingers mechanical artwork (including my lips- and-tongue version on the inner-sleeve artwork) to meet Mick and Marshall, who both approved it the next day… Pasche hadn’t finished his logo, so I told them to use his on the WEA English album.
Ultimately, it ended up being my version, not his, they use everywhere. They use mine for the tours, merchandising, licensing. Ironically, the V&A Museum paid Pasche almost £100,000 for his original logo art, but it’s not the official Stones version.”
“The Stones didn’t pay me a nickel for the design of the Sticky… jacket, or the logo. I got the licensing of that logo through my Rockreations division for a period of three years with the Stones’ Musidor N.V., and made keyrings, jewellery, belt buckles, badges, watches, canvas bags… all with my ‘Licks’ version of the ‘tongue and lips’ logo.” The logo licensing reverted back to The Stones and, as they say, the rest is history… after several decades and a billion-dollar licensing/merchandising venture." -- [www.LongLiveVinyl.net] .
"I was telling Marshall, 'Look, you mentioned that some kid in an art school is working on a logo for Mick?' And he said, 'Yeah.' So I said, 'I need that, Marshall. Get the logo.' He says, 'I can’t get involved with that, man. You want me to come between Mick and this kid?' [The “kid” was John Pasche, the designer officially credited with the Rolling Stones lips-and-tongue logo; he reportedly sold his copyright to the Stones for 26,000 British pounds in 1984.] I said, 'I need the artwork. I got to have it.' I was screaming at him. I said, 'Marshall, have you seen a sketch or anything?' He said, 'Well, you know, the guy is just doing black-and-white artwork. It’s not finished. But I did get a stamp.' So he sends this thing and it’s the overall shape of [the Stones logo], the lips, and then I can see this bulbous tongue, but it’s like a squashed-out image. So when I saw it, I said, 'Marshall, this is not helping me at all.' But then I remembered getting a book in London from a guy named Alan Aldridge. He was an illustrator and he did a book called [The Beatles Illustrated Lyrics]. And I remember this one illustration for 'Day Tripper', and it was a girl, this cute little blond girl, and she was eating a lollipop or a popsicle. And she had her huge tongue out and the lip outline. That was like magic for me. I said, We can do it now. So I got my guy down, the illustrator guy, Walter Velez was his name. We combined the two in a salad, like a design salad. So I went through maybe six different iterations of that logo." -- [www.VanityFair.com] .
Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 2021-04-17 05:10 by Irix.
"The release of Sticky Fingers coincided with the launch of The Stones’ label, Rolling Stones Records, which needed a logo. Conceived by art student John Pasche along with input from Jagger, Braun developed the original idea. “Marshall Chess was in London with Mick and Pasche working on the logo,” recalls Craig.
“Since it was a handmade album sleeve, I needed the logo done, so I got them to send me the basic ‘lips and tongue’ rough idea. It was based on images of The Goddess Kali Ma… suggested by Mick and Keith. With Mick and Pasche working on the unfinished logo, I needed the logo done for it to be included on Sticky Fingers, so I got Marshall to send me the basic rough sketch, which was simply a black rubber stamp.
Then I got my artists to blow up that silhouette using the original idea as a starting place and we went from there, refining it. I then sent one of my account guys over to London with the final Sticky Fingers mechanical artwork (including my lips- and-tongue version on the inner-sleeve artwork) to meet Mick and Marshall, who both approved it the next day… Pasche hadn’t finished his logo, so I told them to use his on the WEA English album.
Ultimately, it ended up being my version, not his, they use everywhere. They use mine for the tours, merchandising, licensing. Ironically, the V&A Museum paid Pasche almost £100,000 for his original logo art, but it’s not the official Stones version.”
“The Stones didn’t pay me a nickel for the design of the Sticky… jacket, or the logo. I got the licensing of that logo through my Rockreations division for a period of three years with the Stones’ Musidor N.V., and made keyrings, jewellery, belt buckles, badges, watches, canvas bags… all with my ‘Licks’ version of the ‘tongue and lips’ logo.” The logo licensing reverted back to The Stones and, as they say, the rest is history… after several decades and a billion-dollar licensing/merchandising venture." -- [www.LongLiveVinyl.net] .
"I was telling Marshall, 'Look, you mentioned that some kid in an art school is working on a logo for Mick?' And he said, 'Yeah.' So I said, 'I need that, Marshall. Get the logo.' He says, 'I can’t get involved with that, man. You want me to come between Mick and this kid?' [The “kid” was John Pasche, the designer officially credited with the Rolling Stones lips-and-tongue logo; he reportedly sold his copyright to the Stones for 26,000 British pounds in 1984.] I said, 'I need the artwork. I got to have it.' I was screaming at him. I said, 'Marshall, have you seen a sketch or anything?' He said, 'Well, you know, the guy is just doing black-and-white artwork. It’s not finished. But I did get a stamp.' So he sends this thing and it’s the overall shape of [the Stones logo], the lips, and then I can see this bulbous tongue, but it’s like a squashed-out image. So when I saw it, I said, 'Marshall, this is not helping me at all.' But then I remembered getting a book in London from a guy named Alan Aldridge. He was an illustrator and he did a book called [The Beatles Illustrated Lyrics]. And I remember this one illustration for 'Day Tripper', and it was a girl, this cute little blond girl, and she was eating a lollipop or a popsicle. And she had her huge tongue out and the lip outline. That was like magic for me. I said, We can do it now. So I got my guy down, the illustrator guy, Walter Velez was his name. We combined the two in a salad, like a design salad. So I went through maybe six different iterations of that logo." -- [www.VanityFair.com] .
Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 2021-04-17 05:10 by Irix.
Re: Rolling Stones Tongues
Posted by:
Irix
()
Date: September 8, 2020 21:25
From an article about the opening of the RS No9 Carnaby-Store:
"John Pasche, who created the Rolling Stones’s now instantly recognisable lips and tongue logo – first used on the Sticky Fingers LP in 1971 – has created limited-edition artworks, on sale for £1,195." - [www.TheGuardian.com] .
So, the Stones and/or Bravado consider John Pasche as the designer of the T&L-logo (not Craig Brown or Ernie Cefalu).
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-09-09 00:00 by Irix.
"John Pasche, who created the Rolling Stones’s now instantly recognisable lips and tongue logo – first used on the Sticky Fingers LP in 1971 – has created limited-edition artworks, on sale for £1,195." - [www.TheGuardian.com] .
So, the Stones and/or Bravado consider John Pasche as the designer of the T&L-logo (not Craig Brown or Ernie Cefalu).
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-09-09 00:00 by Irix.
Re: Rolling Stones Tongues
Posted by:
georgie48
()
Date: September 8, 2020 21:29
Quote
IrixQuote
GasLightStreet
Maybe that's what '"finished"' means?Quote
georgie48
Hi Irix, Not exactly.
The caption of the T&L-logo above says just 'Craig Brown' - and what I wanted to say is that Craig Brown himself did not sit at the desk and drew with the pen. That he now gets all the merits would be a different story. The knowledge, that the inspiration actually came from Alan Aldridge, I thought is already known - [iorr.org] , [iorr.org] .
No offense Irix, but Braun did draw with a pen. He made initial sketches for his professional staff in both cases.
Re: Rolling Stones Tongues
Posted by:
Irix
()
Date: September 8, 2020 21:40
Quote
georgie48
No offense Irix, but Braun did draw with a pen. He made initial sketches for his professional staff in both cases.
Interesting, never heard of it in the many years since the discussion about the T&L-Logo started - [iorr.org] .
Since my initially posts are not exactly enough, they're edited and/or deleted.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-09-18 20:45 by Irix.
Re: Rolling Stones Tongues
Posted by:
georgie48
()
Date: September 18, 2020 20:16
Quote
IrixQuote
georgie48
No offense Irix, but Braun did draw with a pen. He made initial sketches for his professional staff in both cases.
Interesting, never heard of it in the many years since the discussion about the T&L-Logo started - [iorr.org] .
Since my initially posts are not exact enough, they're deleted.
Time flies! I was asked several years ago to do a thourough investigation and came in touch with Braun, Chess and several directly involved people, so that's how I got more details. I made a thread in which I "questioned" who designed the first logo and some interesting (sometimes heavy) responses resulted in that thread. In the end a closely involved person final told in part what happened (which I already knew at that time). That was the purpose of my thread and I spoke out my appreciation for his "coming out".
Re: Rolling Stones Tongues
Posted by:
Irix
()
Date: September 18, 2020 20:35
Here's an example what I wanted to describe above about Craig Brown and drawing with a pen (finishing the design personally):
The 2015 article by the [www.NYTimes.com] says: "The original sketch of the Rolling Stones’ logo for the Licks memorabilia line, created by Mr. Braun, and a piece of merchandize attached, top right."
But in reality it was donecreated by Ernie Cefalu (a freelancer of C. Braun, Inc.) - [iorr.org] .
Since Craig Braun is also the owner of the "Craig Braun, Inc.", the 'Craig Braun'-caption above should be (in both cases, Licks- & US-logo) considered as the Company of the same name.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-09-18 23:40 by Irix.
The 2015 article by the [www.NYTimes.com] says: "The original sketch of the Rolling Stones’ logo for the Licks memorabilia line, created by Mr. Braun, and a piece of merchandize attached, top right."
But in reality it was done
Since Craig Braun is also the owner of the "Craig Braun, Inc.", the 'Craig Braun'-caption above should be (in both cases, Licks- & US-logo) considered as the Company of the same name.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-09-18 23:40 by Irix.
Re: Rolling Stones Tongues
Posted by:
georgie48
()
Date: September 18, 2020 21:43
Created is here not properly used, neither for Braun nor for Cefalu. The sketch that I have is a hand drawing made by Braun with pencil of a tongue laid above an open mouth, where the mouth was roughly based on a mouth-only made by Cefalu for an album label. That sketch was Braun's, the finishing touch was by Cefalu.
Similar with the "USA" logo, the basic shape was the 1970 b&w fax image of Pasche's original logo (with one line on the tongue) (Chess knew the colours) and the Aldridge drawing combined, Braun presented that to his two co-workers telling them how he thought it could be and they finaly came up with that perfect final result.
These things happen a lot in the world of creative design, but, apart from the owner, people who do the finishing touch can not be considered as being creators, unless the owners want to specifically give them more credit.
Pasche was the only one entitled to call himself "creator".
By the way, I did collect hundreds of mouth/tongue images made/created well before 1970 as well as after.
Similar with the "USA" logo, the basic shape was the 1970 b&w fax image of Pasche's original logo (with one line on the tongue) (Chess knew the colours) and the Aldridge drawing combined, Braun presented that to his two co-workers telling them how he thought it could be and they finaly came up with that perfect final result.
These things happen a lot in the world of creative design, but, apart from the owner, people who do the finishing touch can not be considered as being creators, unless the owners want to specifically give them more credit.
Pasche was the only one entitled to call himself "creator".
By the way, I did collect hundreds of mouth/tongue images made/created well before 1970 as well as after.
Re: Rolling Stones Tongues
Posted by:
Irix
()
Date: September 18, 2020 22:40
Quote
georgie48
Created is here not properly used, neither for Braun nor for Cefalu. The sketch that I have is a hand drawing made by Braun with pencil of a tongue laid above an open mouth, where the mouth was roughly based on a mouth-only made by Cefalu for an album label. That sketch was Braun's, the finishing touch was by Cefalu.
This one?
UnCovered-Interview with Ernie Cefalu (Dolls Alive Cover)
Looks like you're right with "created is not properly used", since Ernie Cefalu's description of his T&L-Logo says: "Because I was unable to retrieve my original Stones Tongue logo illustration done in 1971, I decided to re-create it in 2014. This isn't the original, but it's done by the guy who did it originally. - Ernie" -- [iorr.org] .
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2020-09-19 00:05 by Irix.
Re: Rolling Stones Tongues
Posted by:
Irix
()
Date: September 18, 2020 23:30
Here's Alan Aldridge's (unused) artwork for The Rolling Stones Rock and Roll Circus :
[DebutArt.Tumblr.com] · Large picture
Proof-print designed by Alan Aldridge for a planned 1975 album release that never materialized - [www.JuliensLive.com] · Large picture
Proof-print designed by Alan Aldridge for a planned 1975 album release that never materialized - [www.JuliensLive.com] · Large picture
[DebutArt.Tumblr.com] · Large picture
Proof-print designed by Alan Aldridge for a planned 1975 album release that never materialized - [www.JuliensLive.com] · Large picture
Proof-print designed by Alan Aldridge for a planned 1975 album release that never materialized - [www.JuliensLive.com] · Large picture
Re: Rolling Stones Tongues
Posted by:
georgie48
()
Date: September 19, 2020 10:53
Yep Irix. I have all the info. Thanks for visualizing some of it. It sometimes helps supporting words. The drawing I have is somewhat different (not made by C.), but his statements about "1971" and his confirmation about "the guy who did it" say enough. As far as I am concerned enough has been said about the history. It's well documented and people like GasLightStreet have been very supportive in the earlier discussions.
Let's enjoy the beauty of the logo(s), not fuzz about it anymore. When I bought the Sticky Fingers album in April 1971, apart from the great music off course, I was immediately fascinated by the two different logo's (the one on the back of the sleeve ("USA" version) and the big inlay (Pasche version). It's all been cleared up
Let's enjoy the beauty of the logo(s), not fuzz about it anymore. When I bought the Sticky Fingers album in April 1971, apart from the great music off course, I was immediately fascinated by the two different logo's (the one on the back of the sleeve ("USA" version) and the big inlay (Pasche version). It's all been cleared up
Re: Rolling Stones Tongues
Posted by:
Irix
()
Date: September 20, 2020 18:15
Hand-painted RS-Logo artwork by John Pasche:
Gouache paint & pencil on heavy weight 250 g/m art paper, size A3 (11.5"x16.5") painted and signed in pencil by John Pasche. Each sketch is unique due to being painted individually (incl. a signed letter of authenticity).
£750.00 (incl. postage & packaging in presentation box).
[www.RollingStonesLogo.com] · RS No. 9 Store: [www.Carnaby.co.uk]
"Its here....... Rolling Stones artist John Pasche has created this fantastic hand painted original logo fine art piece. All hand signed with added 'kali' doodle detail under the signature exclusive to us.
The perfect gift for any fan. Who knows what 'kali' is??" -- [Gramho.com] :
[Gramho.com]
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-09-20 20:55 by Irix.
Gouache paint & pencil on heavy weight 250 g/m art paper, size A3 (11.5"x16.5") painted and signed in pencil by John Pasche. Each sketch is unique due to being painted individually (incl. a signed letter of authenticity).
£750.00 (incl. postage & packaging in presentation box).
[www.RollingStonesLogo.com] · RS No. 9 Store: [www.Carnaby.co.uk]
"Its here....... Rolling Stones artist John Pasche has created this fantastic hand painted original logo fine art piece. All hand signed with added 'kali' doodle detail under the signature exclusive to us.
The perfect gift for any fan. Who knows what 'kali' is??" -- [Gramho.com] :
[Gramho.com]
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-09-20 20:55 by Irix.
Re: Rolling Stones Tongues
Posted by:
DGA35
()
Date: September 20, 2020 21:10
Quote
Irix
Here's Alan Aldridge's (unused) artwork for The Rolling Stones Rock and Roll Circus :
[DebutArt.Tumblr.com] · Large picture
Proof-print designed by Alan Aldridge for a planned 1975 album release that never materialized - [www.JuliensLive.com] · Large picture
Proof-print designed by Alan Aldridge for a planned 1975 album release that never materialized - [www.JuliensLive.com] · Large picture
Wasn't Keith still going by Richard and not Richards in 1975?
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