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matxil
I think Bill did great, absolutely great stuff.
But I think Daryl is doing a very good job too.

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Turner68

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matxil
I think Bill did great, absolutely great stuff.
But I think Daryl is doing a very good job too.

Yes! I think that's the bottom line. If you make a list of the top 10 issues with the rolling stones, bass playing isn't one of them.

here would be my top 10:

1. advanced age causing changes to how songs are played (tempos, keys, etc)
2. complete break down of song writing team
3. utter debacle on the keyboards and the song arrangements that rely on keyboards so heavily.
4. tours have become very short, meaning there are fewer shows performed when the band has worked out the kinks (typically 3-5 shows into the tour).
5. fans are getting old, as a result the concerts are losing energy
6. some members (not MJ) are simply enjoying the ride rather than playing as if their life depended on it
7. set lists
8. willingness to release poor songs
9. don't do what we tell them to do on IORR and
10. if you read this far - merry christmas!

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Turner 68
If you make a list of the top 10 issues with the rolling stones, bass playing isn't one of them.

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Stoneage

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Turner 68
If you make a list of the top 10 issues with the rolling stones, bass playing isn't one of them.

I don't agree. Now when Bill is gone it's pretty clear that a vital ingredient is missing. A gap that Darryl hasn't been able to close.
And Bill was the most reliable musician in the Stones. He hardly made any mistakes. You could always depend on him.

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Turner68

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matxil
I think Bill did great, absolutely great stuff.
But I think Daryl is doing a very good job too.

Yes! I think that's the bottom line. If you make a list of the top 10 issues with the rolling stones, bass playing isn't one of them.

here would be my top 10:

1. advanced age causing changes to how songs are played (tempos, keys, etc)
2. complete break down of song writing team
3. utter debacle on the keyboards and the song arrangements that rely on keyboards so heavily.
4. tours have become very short, meaning there are fewer shows performed when the band has worked out the kinks (typically 3-5 shows into the tour).
5. fans are getting old, as a result the concerts are losing energy
6. some members (not MJ) are simply enjoying the ride rather than playing as if their life depended on it
7. set lists
8. willingness to release poor songs
9. don't do what we tell them to do on IORR and
10. if you read this far - merry christmas!

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ErwinH
drummer shouldn't do solo's,
not really interesting.

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matxil

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Turner68

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matxil
I think Bill did great, absolutely great stuff.
But I think Daryl is doing a very good job too.

Yes! I think that's the bottom line. If you make a list of the top 10 issues with the rolling stones, bass playing isn't one of them.

here would be my top 10:

1. advanced age causing changes to how songs are played (tempos, keys, etc)
2. complete break down of song writing team
3. utter debacle on the keyboards and the song arrangements that rely on keyboards so heavily.
4. tours have become very short, meaning there are fewer shows performed when the band has worked out the kinks (typically 3-5 shows into the tour).
5. fans are getting old, as a result the concerts are losing energy
6. some members (not MJ) are simply enjoying the ride rather than playing as if their life depended on it
7. set lists
8. willingness to release poor songs
9. don't do what we tell them to do on IORR and
10. if you read this far - merry christmas!

Very good list.
And merry christmas to you and everyone else on IORR too!

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Naturalust

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ErwinH
drummer shouldn't do solo's,
not really interesting.

Coming from a drummer that is an interesting perspective. Hey Erwin, check out the drummer thread I had asked your opinion on Michael Lee and was waiting to hear back. Thanks.

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ErwinH

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Naturalust

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ErwinH
drummer shouldn't do solo's,
not really interesting.

Coming from a drummer that is an interesting perspective. Hey Erwin, check out the drummer thread I had asked your opinion on Michael Lee and was waiting to hear back. Thanks.

Imagine a soccergame...
Imagine the referee stops the game and 1 player can show the audience what he can do with a ball. After he showed off the game continues.
That's how I feel about drumsolo's.... you just shouldn't do it.

I will look for your other message.

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ErwinH
I'm not a bassplayer, but I liked Bill's playing much more than Daryl's.

I miss Bill's solid playing.
Most of the times if people cán play more/faster they will,
but that's not what making music is about.

For me a bassplayer or drummer shouldn't do solo's,
not really interesting.

Maybe the only (but important) thing is I felt Bill's playing,
and somehow I don't feel Daryl's...

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TeddyB1018
Was just listening to GHS yesterday and noticed the personality in all Keith's and Mick Taylor's bass lines. I'm a fan of Bill's playing and always thought the push-pull rhythm section was important to the sound, but GHS sounds like the Stones to me. I conclude that Charlie is far more important to the sound. He generally doesn't sound like the old Charlie these days, however. He plays a lot more straight, even on record, less loose swing and playing behind the beat. The rhythm section is stronger in the sense that they are providing a foolproof bottom for the rest of the group, which now includes KR, playing on top. This makes for consistent stadium shows. It doesn't sound like the old Stones though.

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24FPS
That's the bottom line. The bass in the Stones used to be an instrument you felt. It conveyed emotion. Now it's as utilitarian as a refrigerator.

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TeddyB1018
Was just listening to GHS yesterday and noticed the personality in all Keith's and Mick Taylor's bass lines. I'm a fan of Bill's playing and always thought the push-pull rhythm section was important to the sound, but GHS sounds like the Stones to me. I conclude that Charlie is far more important to the sound. He generally doesn't sound like the old Charlie these days, however. He plays a lot more straight, even on record, less loose swing and playing behind the beat. The rhythm section is stronger in the sense that they are providing a foolproof bottom for the rest of the group, which now includes KR, playing on top. This makes for consistent stadium shows. It doesn't sound like the old Stones though.

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TeddyB1018
Was just listening to GHS yesterday and noticed the personality in all Keith's and Mick Taylor's bass lines. I'm a fan of Bill's playing and always thought the push-pull rhythm section was important to the sound, but GHS sounds like the Stones to me.

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Naturalust


I also agree with your assertions about Bill and have mentioned as much on this thread. He was good but not as much an essential part of the Stones sound as many people have stated, at least in the studio. There are definite exceptions.

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24FPS

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TeddyB1018
Was just listening to GHS yesterday and noticed the personality in all Keith's and Mick Taylor's bass lines. I'm a fan of Bill's playing and always thought the push-pull rhythm section was important to the sound, but GHS sounds like the Stones to me.

I don't know where one gets the credits for GHS. On what cuts do Keith & Mick T. play bass. I know Bill is on the most important track, Angie. And I'm pretty sure he's on Dancing With Mr. D. If not, he sure nailed it on the bootleg version of Brussels.

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Rollin92

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Naturalust


I also agree with your assertions about Bill and have mentioned as much on this thread. He was good but not as much an essential part of the Stones sound as many people have stated, at least in the studio. There are definite exceptions.

The Stones absolutely come into their own as a live band, always have done, and in that Bill was essential to the Stones sound.

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Rollin92

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Naturalust


I also agree with your assertions about Bill and have mentioned as much on this thread. He was good but not as much an essential part of the Stones sound as many people have stated, at least in the studio. There are definite exceptions.

The Stones absolutely come into their own as a live band, always have done, and in that Bill was essential to the Stones sound.

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24FPS

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Rollin92

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Naturalust


I also agree with your assertions about Bill and have mentioned as much on this thread. He was good but not as much an essential part of the Stones sound as many people have stated, at least in the studio. There are definite exceptions.

The Stones absolutely come into their own as a live band, always have done, and in that Bill was essential to the Stones sound.

Satisfaction. Start Me Up. Harlem Shuffle. Rocks Off. Under My Thumb. 19th Nervous Breakdown. 2000 Light Years From Home. Miss You. Imagination. Beast of Burden. Bitch (and every other cut on Sticky Fingers). Blinded By Love. Slipping Away. These are but a few of the studio cuts greatly enhanced by the Wyman touch. He is on almost all of their essential songs, the exceptions being around Beggars Banquet, when Keith horned in unnecessarily except for Sympathy.

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HMS

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24FPS
That's the bottom line. The bass in the Stones used to be an instrument you felt. It conveyed emotion. Now it's as utilitarian as a refrigerator.

Like I said in an earlier post, I rather felt Wyman than heard him. And I rather feel Darryl Jones than hearing him. And I do not notice the slightest difference. If on a song Keith plays the bass and someone would tell me it´s Wyman I would believe him right away. Mick on bass, Wyman on bass or Keith on bass or Darryl or Ronnie - to me it´s all the same.

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Naturalust

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Rollin92

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Naturalust


I also agree with your assertions about Bill and have mentioned as much on this thread. He was good but not as much an essential part of the Stones sound as many people have stated, at least in the studio. There are definite exceptions.

The Stones absolutely come into their own as a live band, always have done, and in that Bill was essential to the Stones sound.

While I agree Rolling Stones concerts are great experiences, I challenge you to tell me which live songs are better than their studio versions. The studio stuff was so great however it isn't really saying they they weren't also very good live....just not as great from a purely musical standpoint, imo.

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24FPS

Quote
Naturalust

Quote
Rollin92

Quote
Naturalust


I also agree with your assertions about Bill and have mentioned as much on this thread. He was good but not as much an essential part of the Stones sound as many people have stated, at least in the studio. There are definite exceptions.

The Stones absolutely come into their own as a live band, always have done, and in that Bill was essential to the Stones sound.

While I agree Rolling Stones concerts are great experiences, I challenge you to tell me which live songs are better than their studio versions. The studio stuff was so great however it isn't really saying they they weren't also very good live....just not as great from a purely musical standpoint, imo.

Black Limousine was better live, as was Dancing With Mr. D. It's usually lesser cuts that get a chance to stretch out. Midnight Rambler is one of those songs that is basically the same but sounds radically different across the eras. I think that is possible because they've never played Midnight Rambler like the studio version, which is a dark, troubling cut.

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Naturalust

Quote
24FPS

Quote
Naturalust

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Rollin92

Quote
Naturalust


I also agree with your assertions about Bill and have mentioned as much on this thread. He was good but not as much an essential part of the Stones sound as many people have stated, at least in the studio. There are definite exceptions.

The Stones absolutely come into their own as a live band, always have done, and in that Bill was essential to the Stones sound.

While I agree Rolling Stones concerts are great experiences, I challenge you to tell me which live songs are better than their studio versions. The studio stuff was so great however it isn't really saying they they weren't also very good live....just not as great from a purely musical standpoint, imo.

Black Limousine was better live, as was Dancing With Mr. D. It's usually lesser cuts that get a chance to stretch out. Midnight Rambler is one of those songs that is basically the same but sounds radically different across the eras. I think that is possible because they've never played Midnight Rambler like the studio version, which is a dark, troubling cut.

Agree there are a few cuts better live, just not that many considering their huge catalog. And I really don't want to be on the anti-Bill side of this debate, I do love most of his work! I just am on the fence about how essential he was to the Stones sound throughout their best period. Definitely more noticeable to me on the earlier material. I guess my greater appreciation of him since he's been gone speaks a bit to the fact that he is indeed missed. Bass players never get the respect they deserve, go figure. I certainly can't think of a song he messed up live, he was solid as a rock, something I can't say about Keith, Mick or Ronnie. But Darryl is just as solid, just different and I think acutely aware of his role as a sideman, there to do his job without causing any waves or drawing too much attention to himself.