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The problem of abuse
Posted by: bv ()
Date: October 24, 2015 00:08

This is a great post by Umair Haque regarding Twitter earlier this month. It is highly relevant to any social online media. In short, as the editor of IORR, I do what I can to reduce the factor of abuse, by the help of everyone here. Please read through the post by Umair Haque and remember the wise words in any online context. Our resonsibility online is to respect and maintain, to avoid abuse, to avoid nagging, bragging and bugging. And remember, nagging here would be the proof of the pudding, right?

Why Twitter’s Dying (And What You Can Learn From It)

[medium.com]

The problem of abuse is the greatest challenge the web faces today. It is greater than censorship, regulation, or (ugh) monetization. It is a problem of staggering magnitude and epic scale ...

I don’t just mean the obvious: violent threats. I also mean the endless bickering, the predictable snark, the general atmosphere of little violences that permeate the social web - and the fact that the average person can’t do anything about it...

Can we create a better web? Sure. But I think we have to start with humility, gratitude, reality?—?not arrogance, privilege, blindness.

Bjornulf



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015-10-24 00:09 by bv.

Re: The problem of abuse
Posted by: dcba ()
Date: October 24, 2015 00:19

"Twitter’s Dying"?

Good news! I always thought the idea of conveying an opinion in 140 clicks on a keyboard was a direct attack on notions like intelligence, subtility, depth of thought etc.
Twiter's like a spit you throw at other ppl. No wonder it's turned into virtual stoning.

Apart from BV, that I share your views on the Net and what we can do to make it better.

Re: The problem of abuse
Posted by: Nate ()
Date: October 24, 2015 01:04

It's easy for people to be abusive when hiding behind the anonymity that the Internet offers.

Nate

Re: The problem of abuse
Posted by: Rockman ()
Date: October 24, 2015 01:11

Yeah, all your sickness
I can suck it up
Throw it all at me
I can shrug it off
There's one thing baby
That I don't understand
You keep on telling me
I ain't your kind of man

....................... Beast Of Burden - Jagger/Richards

ROCKMAN

Re: The problem of abuse
Posted by: Naturalust ()
Date: October 24, 2015 01:27

One only has to look at the comment section of YouTube to see what a mess anonymous web interaction can become. It is bizzare.

I often wonder if it's an accurate representation of how our global society actually thinks or if there is some special "abuse" door opened when people are communicating anonymously and without the benefit of looking someone in the eyes.

I think a lot of it is perpetuated by kids who, just like prank phone calls, get a kick out of stirring the pot with this behavior designed to cause a reaction. But certainly there are adults involved too.

I once posted a comment on a YouTube video where some guy living off the land in Alaska and had killed and stored enough meat to last a year shot a tiny squirrel from his porch. Nothing inflammatory just questioned what good the couple mouthfuls of squirrel would do for a guy who obviously had plenty already. I got slammed for months by abusive people for even raising such a question. Finally had to delete my comment. Lesson learned.

Anyway, nothing wrong with humility, kindness and gratitude, we could use more of those traits in all aspects of life, not just the net.

Re: The problem of abuse
Posted by: NICOS ()
Date: October 24, 2015 01:29

Quote
Nate
It's easy for people to be abusive when hiding behind the anonymity that the Internet offers.

Nate

Your right this is the biggest problem..........I did try that twitter thing but never understand it..............sometimes I post on a News site in my country, you can comment on news topics......... it's really incredible how people react on topics and get extremely abused, cursings, dead wishes and so on

__________________________

Re: The problem of abuse
Posted by: NICOS ()
Date: October 24, 2015 01:46

Maybe we all should add our Email address in IORR profile........just to show that your not that anonymous cool smiley.......and if you have a problem you can fight out your "misunderstanding" through email

__________________________

Re: The problem of abuse
Posted by: aliceinseattle ()
Date: October 24, 2015 03:03

Everything I've read here is nice and happy. Are there web sites where people are mean to each other?

Re: The problem of abuse
Posted by: Straycat13 ()
Date: October 24, 2015 03:08

There are all types of people in the world, and they show up on social media.

Re: The problem of abuse
Posted by: Aquamarine ()
Date: October 24, 2015 03:26

I don't see that the writer has any evidence that Twitter is dying, actually, except in his own personal experience of it. I'm not saying it's not the case, it may well be, but the article seems to be presenting opinion as fact.

I'm totally on board with online civility, anyway.

Re: The problem of abuse
Posted by: Turner68 ()
Date: October 24, 2015 03:45

I am on board with online civility too.

The subject line to this message surprised me however. It's worth noting that tens of millions of women and children worldwide are victims of physical abuse, something much more worse than someone saying bad things about your favorite band. Good to keep things in perspective sometimes.

Re: The problem of abuse
Posted by: Olly ()
Date: October 24, 2015 03:52

What of men, Turner68?

.....

Olly.

Re: The problem of abuse
Posted by: Wry Cooter ()
Date: October 24, 2015 05:50

Never comment on YouTube upon any documentary that has to do with @#$%& or Nazi Germany. You had no idea how many roaches were behind that plasterboard.

Re: The problem of abuse
Posted by: Green Lady ()
Date: October 24, 2015 07:47

So what did keefriffhards say or do that just got him banned?

OK, I know we won't get an answer. But I'm sorry to lose him.

Re: The problem of abuse
Posted by: Rockman ()
Date: October 24, 2015 08:12

So what did keefriffhards say or do that just got him banned?

eeerrrr yeah...what happened??

ROCKMAN

Re: The problem of abuse
Posted by: z ()
Date: October 24, 2015 10:16

hey... Rockman...can you please tell him he should mark this thread 'OT'..?

Re: The problem of abuse
Posted by: Rockman ()
Date: October 24, 2015 10:39

Better you did z ... I'm not much good at tellin' anyone what ta do...Hhhaaa

ROCKMAN

Re: The problem of abuse
Posted by: HMS ()
Date: October 24, 2015 12:01

Quote
Green Lady
So what did keefriffhards say or do that just got him banned?

OK, I know we won't get an answer. But I'm sorry to lose him.

keefriffhards got banned??????????????????
I will miss him and his passionate way of expressing his opinions. I really do hope there is a way to get him back again. Sometimes he maybe got a bit rude, but after all this is no monestary...

Re: The problem of abuse
Posted by: crholmstrom ()
Date: October 24, 2015 12:55

Thanks, BV. I agree with the caveat that sometimes people are too sensitive. I guess there is a fine line between humor & what is perceived as an attack. I'm a bit of a trogdolyte as I don't really participate in social media much. The most I do is here. No Facebook, Twitter, etc. I enjoy this site because of the international aspect. I find that as we supposedly have a more open society because of all this we are actually becoming more self centered & isolated. People are so self absorbed now while supposedly becoming less so. Its all me, me, me. I find it disconcerting to be out with someone & they spend half the time glued to the I-phone or taking pictures of themselves. Also, I find that actual conversation is becoming something of a lost art. I've pretty much given up on texting because of it. So many misunderstandings are generated because the actual exchange of ideas is reduced to tiny bites of information allowing for false perception with no recourse. Thanks for this site & allowing many topics to be discussed rather than having a narrow, exclusionary forum. I look forward to exchanging more with you in the future.

Re: The problem of abuse
Posted by: Stoneburst ()
Date: October 24, 2015 12:59

Shouldn't the subject line here have an OT tag?

Umair Haque's article has been circulating on Twitter quite a lot over the past week or so. It's good, and well written. However, his critique is pretty much specific to Twitter, since the 140 character limit (generalising hugely here) actively encourages a reductive, totalising style of argument, empowering demagogues, trolls and ad hominem attacks whilst eliminating nuance and reflection.

Basically, the problems he identifies are real, but they don't apply to IORR or other sites like it.

Re: The problem of abuse
Date: October 24, 2015 13:07

When we are increasingly posting with our phones, hence using fewer characters, this might apply more now for this site as well?

Re: The problem of abuse
Posted by: Stoneburst ()
Date: October 24, 2015 13:16

Quote
DandelionPowderman
When we are increasingly posting with our phones, hence using fewer characters, this might apply more now for this site as well?

Perhaps, but I think not (obviously, only speaking from my own experience):

a) in lieu of an actual IOS/Android app for this place (or EOMS) I try and post from my computer as much as possible; the alternative is quite fiddly and frustrating.
b) you don't get a notification when someone replies to you on IORR. On Twitter you do: the whole thing is precisely set up for quickfire exchanges that, again, produce the effect Haque is talking about.
c) on Twitter you're actually conscious of the character limit from the moment you start typing, and it stops you saying what you would like to say. Here, not so.

I'm not saying fan forums don't get bad-tempered sometimes - we all know they do - but I would argue that bad temper and abuse are not the same thing.

Re: The problem of abuse
Posted by: bv ()
Date: October 24, 2015 13:28

Quote
Aquamarine
I don't see that the writer has any evidence that Twitter is dying, actually, except in his own personal experience of it.

Twitter is a Zoo, that is my personal opinion, but the public opinion is the fact that Twitter are in trouble, their stock value has been falling 50% in four months and they have to layoff 8% of their workforce, very unusual in this business. The financial facts for those who care:

Twitter CEO Jack Dorsey gives $200M in stock to employees
Since being renamed chief executive,
Dorsey has launched restructuring that cut 8% of workforce
[www.cbc.ca]

Still. That is not the point. Twitter is not interesting. The abuse as a modern Internet issue is the problem. Most online media do not accept personal opinions anymore, because of all the abuse. If you ever care to read the comments people place under news articles online, it is all abuse, abuse, abuse. It is a zoo. Even with full names and identities and images from facebook, people post their grumpy verbal offending narrow minded comments to millions of readers. So they close these threads at nights and week-ends, they have a large staff moderating the worst bits. The real issue is the fact that many people do not think before they post. And they do not have the respect needed in order to live with other people in an online community.

I will give an example:
There is this guy in Norway who run the association for fat people, I mean really superfat people. He is a honest guy, very thoughtful and hard working, but his problem is he is fat, which is a medical issue. Then people post everywhere directly to him he should drop dead and he should be ashamed. Even intelligent people in Norway claim fat people are like drug addicts, re link below. It is all abuse, hateful public opinions directed to individuals:

[www.vg.no]

Recently there was a new thread as this one on IORR:

Keith Last night or Mick with Taylor Swift. What rocks your boat the most new
Posted by: xxxxx
Date: October 23, 2015 19:09
I'm going with Keith last night.

May be harmless, but still, it is a typical example of the abuse on Internet. It is not the one post, but the hundred with the same trend. What is the point in such posts? Where is the human respect factor? What is the purpose? Is it made to build friendship or hate?

I have three children. Would it be ok for me to tell everyone that one of my three children are my favorite? Just the thought, the idea of saying one person is more valuable than the other, to me, such an idea is evil. That is the real abuse. The lack of respect for other people. And that is why I will never accept it on IORR.

You may have favorites and persons you like more or less in life, but you don't start public campaigns with hate and abuse of such, that is the difference. Most people on IORR are great fans, great friends, but some does not understand that online communities require a certain degree of respect and "not-posting" policy. In short, sites without moderation or limitations will die on Internet. I don't really care about Twitter, but I do care about IORR.

Bjornulf

Re: The problem of abuse
Posted by: EJM ()
Date: October 24, 2015 14:12

Twitter is not just about abuse - it can sometimes allow connection of academics and link papers to a new audience. Many reputable academics and educationalists use Twitter very productively. There is no question that any social media vector can be misused - people are people - but It's good to see both sides.

Re: The problem of abuse
Posted by: aliceinseattle ()
Date: October 24, 2015 16:15

I'm very confused by the negativity on web sites. Can someone point me to a music fan site where people are mean.

Re: The problem of abuse
Posted by: latebloomer ()
Date: October 24, 2015 16:50

Quote
crholmstrom
Thanks, BV. I agree with the caveat that sometimes people are too sensitive. I guess there is a fine line between humor & what is perceived as an attack. I'm a bit of a trogdolyte as I don't really participate in social media much. The most I do is here. No Facebook, Twitter, etc. I enjoy this site because of the international aspect. I find that as we supposedly have a more open society because of all this we are actually becoming more self centered & isolated. People are so self absorbed now while supposedly becoming less so. Its all me, me, me. I find it disconcerting to be out with someone & they spend half the time glued to the I-phone or taking pictures of themselves. Also, I find that actual conversation is becoming something of a lost art. I've pretty much given up on texting because of it. So many misunderstandings are generated because the actual exchange of ideas is reduced to tiny bites of information allowing for false perception with no recourse. Thanks for this site & allowing many topics to be discussed rather than having a narrow, exclusionary forum. I look forward to exchanging more with you in the future.


Very good point, it bothers me too and I've had to stop myself sometimes for indulging in the same behavior.

I was required to join twitter for one of my education graduate courses. We teachers need to be hip to what the kids are into, was the professor's logic. I've tried to figure it out, but it doesn't work for me. I have nothing of significance to say and I don't want to just come across as self-indulgent, which is mostly what I see on twitter.

Facebook, I find useful as a tool of communication with old friends and family, and as a sort of online scrapbook to preserve photographic memories.

I think online communication of any sort can be illuminating, interesting, and mind expanding. But, just like you have to think before you speak, you also need to think before you write. That's not always possible, we are all human and mistakes are made. Usually they can be rectified with an apology on IORR.

Re: The problem of abuse
Posted by: Big Al ()
Date: October 24, 2015 16:58

I loathe social media. I've never looked at twitter and Facebook is too often a platform for the narcissistic and self-absorbed. I don't care about your life, quite frankly. The biggest victims of social media, however, are the young and impressionable. Too many children and teenagers feel an overwhelming sense of anxiety and peer-pressure because of these sites. It can lead to anything. Not good; not good at all.

Re: The problem of abuse
Posted by: Wry Cooter ()
Date: October 24, 2015 17:31

Quote
Wry Cooter
Never comment on YouTube upon any documentary that has to do with @#$%& or Nazi Germany. You had no idea how many roaches were behind that plasterboard.

Wow, never knew Adolf's last name would get bleeped.

Re: The problem of abuse
Posted by: Cristiano Radtke ()
Date: October 24, 2015 17:43

The worst way to start a day is by reading some comments posted all around the internet. Especially when it comes about religion and politics, although these days the trolls and haters seems to be everywhere. From time to time I say to my friends: "don't read the comments!"

Re: The problem of abuse
Posted by: Hairball ()
Date: October 24, 2015 18:28

I don't use twitter, and don't even own a smart phone (yet). I have many friends that do, and witness them losing touch with reality while glued to their phones.
I have a laptop that I use, and when I leave home for work or whatever, the internet stays behind.
I've half-jokingly banned the use of smartphones (and cell phones in general) from my studio, in order to keep human interaction the priority.

Facebook may have it's pitfalls, but there's also quite alot of good that comes from it. Thousands of pages dedicated to the Stones, Beatles, or Hendrix (or any band you like), as well as thousands of pages dedicated to special interests. There's a page I follow dedicated solely to medieval gargoyles for example. And Universal Monsters (Frankenstein, etc.). And surfing. And any artist you can think of, there is more than likely a page dedicated to it. Where else can you find that? The key perhaps is to avoid some of the mindless interaction that can take place - some people post absolutely every detail of their life (woke up tired, had a great lunch - see pic, ) which seems totally weird imo. Sharing photo's of a concert you attended or a day at the beach is a great thing, but to turn it all into a virtual soap opera by posting that you have a toothache or hate yourself seems bizarre, and I try and avoid all of that.

As for this site, have always enjoyed for the reasons stated above - International variety, etc. I also enjoy the positive and the negative opinions regarding various band members, performances, etc, but I also understand there's a fine line between posting thoughtful expressions of opinion vs. trollish and repetitive hate campaigns. Even worse imo, are the hateful personal attacks and insults towards individual members which is probably the worst byproduct of internet message boards (not only here). There's no room for that BS, and should never be tolerated by whomever is the administrator of any given board.

As for me, about to close up the laptop, head out to the great outdoors, and be free of all things internet related to enjoy reality.
Until I get back later this afternoon to browse around, there's a real world out there to be experienced and enjoyed.
Call me old fashioned, I take that as a compliment.

--------------------------------
"Rip this joint, gonna save your soul..."

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