The rule should be ONE LAW FOR ALL, but...

...but as long as the rules in this world do apply to everyone equally, not in court, not in gangs, not in politics, not on IORR, not in income, not in opportunity, not anywhere... then Keith can smoke anywhere he wants.

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Title5Take1

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keefriffhards

Keiths dad Bert was a smoker and life long drinker. He made it to 89

I read that smokers who live to 60-something will outlive nonsmokers who live to that age. It signifies your body is just tougher than most, and as Keith has said, "I come from strong stock." I don't have that original article but this one is along those lines >>> [healthland.time.com]

Also, people with high status—uh, rock star!—who live unhealthy lives will live longer than people with low status who lead healthy lives. Read the book THE STATUS SYNDROME by Michael Marmot.

Rock Stars-and Keith is a good example- will have a strong support system and have regular medical checks for tour insurance etc.
BEST medical services when required.
Also lots of holidays, staff to do the ironing etc.
No worries about paying the heating bills.
In fact no worries.

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EddieByword
There was study done in California in 1992 as a direct result of a surge in people presenting at 'the doctors' with mouth and throat cancers. The study and subsequent report showed that the common denominator with all these people, from the whole social and racial spectrum, was cannabis/marijuana.

A common denominator is not exactly a case for causality. To the best of my knowledge, there are no studies that show that cannabis causes cancer and there are many that these is no link, not to mention various health benefits.

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EddieByword
Also, I have severe Emphysema, the Thoracic specialist at my hospital has written that my smoking of cannabis during the '70s/80s was a contributing factor, adding in conversation that smoking anything could give 'you' emphysema. ie. I could have smoked straight grass and (no tobacco) still got it.

Not to down play your own personal experience, but I've seen research on 29 cases of emphysema connected to smoking cannabis. 29. There are tens of thousands of cases related to tobacco. Again, one doesn't even need to smoke cannabis, but you can get cancer from tobacco by taking it orally.

And of course, if they had modelled the Stones logo off Keith's mouth, and not Mick's, we'd have had a very different logo . . .

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jlowe

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Title5Take1

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keefriffhards

Keiths dad Bert was a smoker and life long drinker. He made it to 89

I read that smokers who live to 60-something will outlive nonsmokers who live to that age. It signifies your body is just tougher than most, and as Keith has said, "I come from strong stock." I don't have that original article but this one is along those lines >>> [healthland.time.com]

Also, people with high status—uh, rock star!—who live unhealthy lives will live longer than people with low status who lead healthy lives. Read the book THE STATUS SYNDROME by Michael Marmot.

Rock Stars-and Keith is a good example- will have a strong support system and have regular medical checks for tour insurance etc.
BEST medical services when required.
Also lots of holidays, staff to do the ironing etc.
No worries about paying the heating bills.
In fact no worries.

Your right there, i think stress is the biggest killer of all, its hard to worry with a cool 200 million in the bank
That said keith has had his hardships, his wife Pattie had cancer a while back

Love the "Alt Logo" camper88!

Two thumbs up for creativity!

Peace,
Mr DJA

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Big Al
Yes, of course the rules should apply to him. He has no rights, as such, over anyone else. To think they should alow him to smoke due to his 'status' is, quite frankly, stupid. I don't care if he's a 'rock star' If I, or anyone else, is not allowed to smoke, than nor should he be able to do so. I don't place musicians on a higher perch. It's childish to do so. They have to abide by the same laws of the land as everybody else, and justifiably so.

Keith can do as he wishes

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Stones50

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Big Al
Yes, of course the rules should apply to him. He has no rights, as such, over anyone else. To think they should alow him to smoke due to his 'status' is, quite frankly, stupid. I don't care if he's a 'rock star' If I, or anyone else, is not allowed to smoke, than nor should he be able to do so. I don't place musicians on a higher perch. It's childish to do so. They have to abide by the same laws of the land as everybody else, and justifiably so.

Keith can do as he wishes

Rules are for breaking

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camper88

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EddieByword
There was study done in California in 1992 as a direct result of a surge in people presenting at 'the doctors' with mouth and throat cancers. The study and subsequent report showed that the common denominator with all these people, from the whole social and racial spectrum, was cannabis/marijuana.

A common denominator is not exactly a case for causality. To the best of my knowledge, there are no studies that show that cannabis causes cancer and there are many that these is no link, not to mention various health benefits.

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EddieByword
Also, I have severe Emphysema, the Thoracic specialist at my hospital has written that my smoking of cannabis during the '70s/80s was a contributing factor, adding in conversation that smoking anything could give 'you' emphysema. ie. I could have smoked straight grass and (no tobacco) still got it.

Not to down play your own personal experience, but I've seen research on 29 cases of emphysema connected to smoking cannabis. 29. There are tens of thousands of cases related to tobacco. Again, one doesn't even need to smoke cannabis, but you can get cancer from tobacco by taking it orally.

And of course, if they had modelled the Stones logo off Keith's mouth, and not Mick's, we'd have had a very different logo . . .

While on the subject Ronnie said he had the start of emphysema in 2002
he still smokes but seems fine. Go figure

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everwest1
2 keefriff names yelling at each other is... interesting.

yeah - hard to remember whose side I'm on.



_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

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Hairball

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everwest1
2 keefriff names yelling at each other is... interesting.

yeah - hard to remember whose side I'm on.

well im your side regardless Hairball

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keefriffhards

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camper88

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EddieByword
There was study done in California in 1992 as a direct result of a surge in people presenting at 'the doctors' with mouth and throat cancers. The study and subsequent report showed that the common denominator with all these people, from the whole social and racial spectrum, was cannabis/marijuana.

A common denominator is not exactly a case for causality. To the best of my knowledge, there are no studies that show that cannabis causes cancer and there are many that these is no link, not to mention various health benefits.

Quote
EddieByword
Also, I have severe Emphysema, the Thoracic specialist at my hospital has written that my smoking of cannabis during the '70s/80s was a contributing factor, adding in conversation that smoking anything could give 'you' emphysema. ie. I could have smoked straight grass and (no tobacco) still got it.

Not to down play your own personal experience, but I've seen research on 29 cases of emphysema connected to smoking cannabis. 29. There are tens of thousands of cases related to tobacco. Again, one doesn't even need to smoke cannabis, but you can get cancer from tobacco by taking it orally.

And of course, if they had modelled the Stones logo off Keith's mouth, and not Mick's, we'd have had a very different logo . . .

While on the subject Ronnie said he had the start of emphysema in 2002
he still smokes but seems fine. Go figure

Nothing much to figure really, emphysema is usually a quite long winded deterioration - my father was diagnosed in 1990 and lived getting progressively weaker until 2010. The doctor told him that if he had carried on smoking he would have probably have just accelerated his death by about 5 years. If Ron's got it and is still smoking then he's just shortening his life by a few years. If Ron has emphysema it will kill him eventually unless he gets hit by a bus or some other disease in the meantime because it is relentlessly progressive and completely irreversible. Only hope is a lung transplant and in the UK at least, all the spare lungs go to young people with Cystic fibrosis.

Also there's genetic factors which come into play, some family's genes (of people withh emphysema) react less well to smoke than other families also with emphysema and so people from some families (with emphysema) die quicker than people from other families also with emphysema subjected to similar smoking habits/amounts of cigarettes consumed.

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EddieByword

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keefriffhards

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camper88

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EddieByword
There was study done in California in 1992 as a direct result of a surge in people presenting at 'the doctors' with mouth and throat cancers. The study and subsequent report showed that the common denominator with all these people, from the whole social and racial spectrum, was cannabis/marijuana.

A common denominator is not exactly a case for causality. To the best of my knowledge, there are no studies that show that cannabis causes cancer and there are many that these is no link, not to mention various health benefits.

Quote
EddieByword
Also, I have severe Emphysema, the Thoracic specialist at my hospital has written that my smoking of cannabis during the '70s/80s was a contributing factor, adding in conversation that smoking anything could give 'you' emphysema. ie. I could have smoked straight grass and (no tobacco) still got it.

Not to down play your own personal experience, but I've seen research on 29 cases of emphysema connected to smoking cannabis. 29. There are tens of thousands of cases related to tobacco. Again, one doesn't even need to smoke cannabis, but you can get cancer from tobacco by taking it orally.

And of course, if they had modelled the Stones logo off Keith's mouth, and not Mick's, we'd have had a very different logo . . .

While on the subject Ronnie said he had the start of emphysema in 2002
he still smokes but seems fine. Go figure

Nothing much to figure really, emphysema is usually a quite long winded deterioration - my father was diagnosed in 1990 and lived getting progressively weaker until 2010. The doctor told him that if he had carried on smoking he would have probably have just accelerated his death by about 5 years. If Ron's got it and is still smoking then he's just shortening his life by a few years. If Ron has emphysema it will kill him eventually unless he gets hit by a bus or some other disease in the meantime because it is relentlessly progressive and completely irreversible. Only hope is a lung transplant and in the UK at least, all the spare lungs go to young people with Cystic fibrosis.

Also there's genetic factors which come into play, some family's genes (of people withh emphysema) react less well to smoke than other families also with emphysema and so people from some families (with emphysema) die quicker than people from other families also with emphysema subjected to similar smoking habits/amounts of cigarettes consumed.

Sorry to hear about your father Eddie, lets hope Ronnie can kick the habit soon
These e cigarettes are helping so many people stop smoking, its very incouraging

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camper88

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EddieByword
There was study done in California in 1992 as a direct result of a surge in people presenting at 'the doctors' with mouth and throat cancers. The study and subsequent report showed that the common denominator with all these people, from the whole social and racial spectrum, was cannabis/marijuana.

A common denominator is not exactly a case for causality. To the best of my knowledge, there are no studies that show that cannabis causes cancer and there are many that these is no link, not to mention various health benefits.

Quote
EddieByword
Also, I have severe Emphysema, the Thoracic specialist at my hospital has written that my smoking of cannabis during the '70s/80s was a contributing factor, adding in conversation that smoking anything could give 'you' emphysema. ie. I could have smoked straight grass and (no tobacco) still got it.

Not to down play your own personal experience, but I've seen research on 29 cases of emphysema connected to smoking cannabis. 29. There are tens of thousands of cases related to tobacco. Again, one doesn't even need to smoke cannabis, but you can get cancer from tobacco by taking it orally.

And of course, if they had modelled the Stones logo off Keith's mouth, and not Mick's, we'd have had a very different logo . . .

The article I read hadn't got as far as claiming definite causality but did suggest that there was enough evidence to look into it further. To be honest as I spent the two years ('92 - '94) after I read that fighting my own personal survival battle I lost track...........in my case, the oncologist was bemused. He said I had a cancer he had only seen twice before and then only in 70+ year olds. I was 32. He couldn't find the primary.
He did think it could have been dormant in me since I was a little kid in Hong Kong running around in shorts or swimming trunks all day with no suntan oil on..............but because of the lack of evedence of the primary he said that was largely an educated guess.

re. The emphysema, the thoracic specialist who has just retired (so very expereinced) was completely settled that cannabis was an aggravating factor.......so.......

The stats you mention (although cannabis smoking is fairly popular) could be down to the fact that many more people smoke tobacco than cannabis and even with people who smoke cannabis, I should imagine hardly any of those only smoke cannabis - most people smoke their weed mixed with tobacco so they're getting both.

Regarding the research you saw, how did they determine cannabis was the cause in those 29 cases of emphysema?

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keefriffhards

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EddieByword

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keefriffhards

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camper88

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EddieByword
There was study done in California in 1992 as a direct result of a surge in people presenting at 'the doctors' with mouth and throat cancers. The study and subsequent report showed that the common denominator with all these people, from the whole social and racial spectrum, was cannabis/marijuana.

A common denominator is not exactly a case for causality. To the best of my knowledge, there are no studies that show that cannabis causes cancer and there are many that these is no link, not to mention various health benefits.

Quote
EddieByword
Also, I have severe Emphysema, the Thoracic specialist at my hospital has written that my smoking of cannabis during the '70s/80s was a contributing factor, adding in conversation that smoking anything could give 'you' emphysema. ie. I could have smoked straight grass and (no tobacco) still got it.

Not to down play your own personal experience, but I've seen research on 29 cases of emphysema connected to smoking cannabis. 29. There are tens of thousands of cases related to tobacco. Again, one doesn't even need to smoke cannabis, but you can get cancer from tobacco by taking it orally.

And of course, if they had modelled the Stones logo off Keith's mouth, and not Mick's, we'd have had a very different logo . . .

While on the subject Ronnie said he had the start of emphysema in 2002
he still smokes but seems fine. Go figure

Nothing much to figure really, emphysema is usually a quite long winded deterioration - my father was diagnosed in 1990 and lived getting progressively weaker until 2010. The doctor told him that if he had carried on smoking he would have probably have just accelerated his death by about 5 years. If Ron's got it and is still smoking then he's just shortening his life by a few years. If Ron has emphysema it will kill him eventually unless he gets hit by a bus or some other disease in the meantime because it is relentlessly progressive and completely irreversible. Only hope is a lung transplant and in the UK at least, all the spare lungs go to young people with Cystic fibrosis.

Also there's genetic factors which come into play, some family's genes (of people withh emphysema) react less well to smoke than other families also with emphysema and so people from some families (with emphysema) die quicker than people from other families also with emphysema subjected to similar smoking habits/amounts of cigarettes consumed.

Sorry to hear about your father Eddie, lets hope Ronnie can kick the habit soon
These e cigarettes are helping so many people stop smoking, its very incouraging

Thanks for that........ ......those e cigarettes have their dangers mind, my stepson was charging his about a month ago and while he was in the bedroom with his girl the charger overheated and set fire to the curtains and........10th floor flat (apartment) - six fire engines and .........they were lucky...............a lighter mood now but they were sweating and 'shaking all over'.........

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EddieByword

The article I read hadn't got as far as claiming definite causality but did suggest that there was enough evidence to look into it further. To be honest as I spent the two years ('92 - '94) after I read that fighting my own personal survival battle I lost track...........in my case, the oncologist was bemused. He said I had a cancer he had only seen twice before and then only in 70+ year olds. I was 32. He couldn't find the primary.
He did think it could have been dormant in me since I was a little kid in Hong Kong running around in shorts or swimming trunks all day with no suntan oil on..............but because of the lack of evedence of the primary he said that was largely an educated guess.

re. The emphysema, the thoracic specialist who has just retired (so very expereinced) was completely settled that cannabis was an aggravating factor.......so.......

The stats you mention (although cannabis smoking is fairly popular) could be down to the fact that many more people smoke tobacco than cannabis and even with people who smoke cannabis, I should imagine hardly any of those only smoke cannabis - most people smoke their weed mixed with tobacco so they're getting both.

This was part of the findings on the 36 (not 29--my mistake/ mis-remembering).

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EddieByword
Regarding the research you saw, how did they determine cannabis was the cause in those 29 cases of emphysema?

Not very well. Here's an extract from the summary:

There are now at least 36 case reports of bullous lung disease attributable to heavy cannabis smoking in English literature. These cases consistently report upper lobe predominance with relatively preserved lower lung parenchyma ( Table 2 ). Despite the presence of bullae on high resolution CT scans, lung function tests and chest x-ray appearances have largely been unremarkable in these patients. Most of these cases have been reported in young adults under the age of 45 years. This age distribution may reflect the fact that older generations may not have smoked much cannabis or may be owing to a reporting bias. How cannabis might cause such severe lung damage is not clear. It has been postulated that the methods of inhalation of cannabis smoke may cause significant barotrauma. Cannabis smokers tend to hold their breath for up to four-times longer than cigarette smokers, with a nearly 70% increase in inspiratory volume.[22] This high lung volume and breath holding results in the prolonged exposure to inhaled particulates at very high temperatures, which in turn may be responsible for epithelial injury and inflammation.

emphasis mine

Camper

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Title5Take1
Sola dosis facit venenum.

That's not true, well not in the case of emphysema anyway, it's the smoke coupled with the genetic suseptibilty to the breakdown of the alveoli. (Tiny sacs where the oxygen is transfused from the lungs into the blood stream. [en.wikipedia.org]

The comedian Geoge Burns and I'm sure plenty of others smoked 'like troppers' well into their 90s with no ill effects. Other contract it by just living with someone who smokes.

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EddieByword

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Title5Take1
Sola dosis facit venenum.

That's not true, well not in the case of emphysema anyway, it's the smoke coupled with the genetic suseptibilty to the breakdown of the alveoli. (Tiny sacs where the oxygen is transfused from the lungs into the blood stream. [en.wikipedia.org]

The comedian Geoge Burns and I'm sure plenty of others smoked 'like troppers' well into their 90s with no ill effects. Other contract it by just living with someone who smokes.

It may be true with weed. From the same study summary: The only exclusive (no tobacco) cannabis smoker with macroscopic emphysema on high-resolution CT scanning in their study had a 437 joint-year history."

If I understand the idea of "joint-year" correctly, that's the equivalent of 437 years smoking one joint a day, or about 16,000 joints in total.

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camper88

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EddieByword

The article I read hadn't got as far as claiming definite causality but did suggest that there was enough evidence to look into it further. To be honest as I spent the two years ('92 - '94) after I read that fighting my own personal survival battle I lost track...........in my case, the oncologist was bemused. He said I had a cancer he had only seen twice before and then only in 70+ year olds. I was 32. He couldn't find the primary.
He did think it could have been dormant in me since I was a little kid in Hong Kong running around in shorts or swimming trunks all day with no suntan oil on..............but because of the lack of evedence of the primary he said that was largely an educated guess.

re. The emphysema, the thoracic specialist who has just retired (so very expereinced) was completely settled that cannabis was an aggravating factor.......so.......

The stats you mention (although cannabis smoking is fairly popular) could be down to the fact that many more people smoke tobacco than cannabis and even with people who smoke cannabis, I should imagine hardly any of those only smoke cannabis - most people smoke their weed mixed with tobacco so they're getting both.

This was part of the findings on the 36 (not 29--my mistake/ mis-remembering).

Quote
EddieByword
Regarding the research you saw, how did they determine cannabis was the cause in those 29 cases of emphysema?

Not very well. Here's an extract from the summary:

There are now at least 36 case reports of bullous lung disease attributable to heavy cannabis smoking in English literature. These cases consistently report upper lobe predominance with relatively preserved lower lung parenchyma ( Table 2 ). Despite the presence of bullae on high resolution CT scans, lung function tests and chest x-ray appearances have largely been unremarkable in these patients. Most of these cases have been reported in young adults under the age of 45 years. This age distribution may reflect the fact that older generations may not have smoked much cannabis or may be owing to a reporting bias. How cannabis might cause such severe lung damage is not clear. It has been postulated that the methods of inhalation of cannabis smoke may cause significant barotrauma. Cannabis smokers tend to hold their breath for up to four-times longer than cigarette smokers, with a nearly 70% increase in inspiratory volume.[22] This high lung volume and breath holding results in the prolonged exposure to inhaled particulates at very high temperatures, which in turn may be responsible for epithelial injury and inflammation.

emphasis mine

Camper

Interesting.....upper lobe predominance ...that's me....diagnosed at 40....and, we used to smoke through a Kilner pickling jar half filled with water with two car radiator hoses (one going into water with an inch wide chillum on top and one coming up from the pickling jar lid to suck through - (put your thumb over the hole and suck like f-uck.............and hold it in as long as possible......the only up side it seems was that the smoke was water cooled.......... ............thanks............



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2015-09-24 13:38 by EddieByword.

Keith smokes weed and tobacco and his wind is fine, surprisingly. He must stink in person though.

One of the obvious reasons cannabis is not a factor in more diseases in that people usually only smoke a small amount of it relative to tobacco. They mostly quit when they feel the effects, and these days that happens pretty damn quickly. The potency has been bred through the roof!

In any case, as much as I love Keith, and approve of his bohemian ways, I can't help feeling a bit uncomfortable watching him smoke these days, thinking that it may contribute even a little bit towards decreasing his longevity. Let's just hope he's one of the lucky ones and his body is as strong as his mythology.

He must stink in person though.

Heck no he doesn't ...and as Ronnie said .."Keith, yeah he's the cleanest dirty man I know."



ROCKMAN

Keith's wife battled bladder cancer; one of the chief causes of which is smoking. She herself does not smoke. Could it be that nearly 30 years of breathing Keith's second-hand cigarette smoke was the cause?

Watching Under the Influence I became progressively turned off watching Keith smoke indoors, with no regard for the other (non-smoking) people in the room.

He wouldn't be doing that at my place.

No, these smoking rules all have the famous Keith Richards exception.

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Hairball

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everwest1
2 keefriff names yelling at each other is... interesting.

yeah - hard to remember whose side I'm on.

We're HARDLY "yelling" at each other

And I think I've been here far longer than the other guy, even though I don't post nearly as frequently as I used to.

Keith Richards, like most people in their 60's and 70's, just do whatever they want at all times and care little for signs, rules, laws, ordinances, other peoples convenience, road safety etc

When you're old, you don't really give a @#$%&.

Notice that Keith wasn't smoking on the Tonight Show with Jimmy Fallon the other day...

I guess that NBC enforced the rule... at least while they were recording on the set.
Don't know about backstage in the green room that afternoon ... but I bet it wasn't like it was in 1978.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015-09-24 18:42 by schillid.

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chop
Keith Richards, like most people in their 60's and 70's, just do whatever they want at all times and care little for signs, rules, laws, ordinances, other peoples convenience, road safety etc

When you're old, you don't really give a @#$%&.

Beware that a great deal of the Iorr-population is over 60 years old.

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schillid
I guess that NBC enforced the rule... at least while they were recording on the set.
Don't know about backstage in the green room that afternoon ... but I bet it wasn't like it was in 1978.

In 1978? Hell, 1992.

I remember asking for the non-smoking section in a restaurant in 1992 and the hostess said, "well, I guess we could take away your ashtray, would that work?

She said, "we don't have a non-smoking section, we have two smoking sections: king size and regular.