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Turner68
It's amazing to read people who clearly haven't seen the movie claim Keith is making Muddy look bad when a good part of the film is dedicated to Keith's worship of Muddy. No one else is talking about the ceiling quote except 10 or 15 people on here. The rest of the world watched the movie and took away that Muddy Waters is keith Richard's god.

Nothing's like a good Keith bashing

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24FPS

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onestep
Really enjoyed this one, shows Keith's part in The Rolling Stones, his love of the blues and the history of music puts some of the soul in The Rolling Stones.

I see that some have commented on who really started The Stones, and Bill is upset that there is a nice historical marker at the Dartford station. In my opinion, Mick and Keith were there from the beginning, and if they hadn't been there, Brian's band would have lasted the winter....I mean does anyone really care if Brian who loved the blues as much as Mick and Keith gets the credit?
I don't.......he went round the bend, and beat up his women...Mick steers, and Keith is the rudder.

But Brian was the fuse that set it all off. It was Brian who was into deep blues, and turned Keith Richards onto Robert Johnson. Brian brought the slide guitar to the Stones sound, which was carried on my Taylor and continued by Wood. Brian brought Little Walter style harmonica to the Stones. Mick and Keith as a songwriting duo only occurred because they were successful as a cover band in the group Brian started. Attitude, dress, musical knowledge, were what Brian brought to what became the Jagger/Richards dominated Stones. Brian may not have been effective after the first couple years, but ask the Beatles how important John was to get them to a mass audience to begin with.

I agree. History is pretty clear here. Without Ian, Brian, Mick, or Keith there would have been nothing resembling the Stones in existence. Without Charlie or Bill there may have been a successful band called the rolling stones but it would have been very different. I don't think Keith's film implied otherwise however. It wasn't a history of the band, it was a history of Keith's experience with music.

He chose to highlight the bluesmen themselves rather than the guy who introduced him to the bluesmen, I think that's fair enough.

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24FPS

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onestep
Really enjoyed this one, shows Keith's part in The Rolling Stones, his love of the blues and the history of music puts some of the soul in The Rolling Stones.

I see that some have commented on who really started The Stones, and Bill is upset that there is a nice historical marker at the Dartford station. In my opinion, Mick and Keith were there from the beginning, and if they hadn't been there, Brian's band would have lasted the winter....I mean does anyone really care if Brian who loved the blues as much as Mick and Keith gets the credit?
I don't.......he went round the bend, and beat up his women...Mick steers, and Keith is the rudder.

But Brian was the fuse that set it all off. It was Brian who was into deep blues, and turned Keith Richards onto Robert Johnson. Brian brought the slide guitar to the Stones sound, which was carried on my Taylor and continued by Wood. Brian brought Little Walter style harmonica to the Stones. Mick and Keith as a songwriting duo only occurred because they were successful as a cover band in the group Brian started. Attitude, dress, musical knowledge, were what Brian brought to what became the Jagger/Richards dominated Stones. Brian may not have been effective after the first couple years, but ask the Beatles how important John was to get them to a mass audience to begin with.

True, but still they mainly played rhythm and blues - the music Mick, Keith and Stu loved the most. And there should be no doubt about Stu being the accomplished one of the lot, although Brian was brilliant at what he did.

Geez, what can I say? Watched this. It was interesting, but, for me, it was a PR piece for KR and his new album release, telling us about his love of music and influences, other musicians opinions of him, but, all in all, not saying much about the man. The best part, IMO, was toward the end when we caught a taste of Goodnight Irene, then a bit of Keith telling of family, grandkids and love. This bit was honest, real and he wasn't selling us anything, but showing us something of KR behind the scenes. I wanted to hear more of this, what family has done for him in terms of him, his music and life. I guess his doing this would have to be another movie entirely.

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DandelionPowderman

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lem motlow
yes the stones turned alot of people onto the blues.and so did eric clapton and jimmy page and every other band and guitar player coming out of england in the 60's.

that doesnt give you a free pass to make up a bullshit story about a guy being so broke he had to paint a ceiling when he never was,

i read an article about this in blues musician magazine a few years ago and believe me they weren't happy about it and not nearly as understanding as rock fans are.

it would be like one of the guys in a young band saying "yeah,the stones really influenced us.i remember when they were broken up in the 80's i saw keith richards cleaning the toilet at a club i was at.he had spent all the stones money and looked at me like,this could be you in a few years,i never forgot that man"

Keith has described that everybody was helping out at Chess, not that Muddy was broke.

There also several quotes from the old blues guys where they thanked the Stones for kickstarting their careers again. In this film this appreciation was clearly stated by Buddy Guy.

The Stones were bigger than Creem, as you know, and Zeppelin weren't pure blues or r&b enough for those blues guys to get the same boost + they were even nastier and more cynical when they stole their songs

Guess you've never hear You Shook Me, How Many More Times, Travellin' Riverside Blues, Lemon Song, Bring It On Home, I can't Quit You Baby, Since I've Been Loving You, etc. etc. When Zeppelin played the blues they were more pure that the Stones ever were, imo.

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Naturalust

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DandelionPowderman

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lem motlow
yes the stones turned alot of people onto the blues.and so did eric clapton and jimmy page and every other band and guitar player coming out of england in the 60's.

that doesnt give you a free pass to make up a bullshit story about a guy being so broke he had to paint a ceiling when he never was,

i read an article about this in blues musician magazine a few years ago and believe me they weren't happy about it and not nearly as understanding as rock fans are.

it would be like one of the guys in a young band saying "yeah,the stones really influenced us.i remember when they were broken up in the 80's i saw keith richards cleaning the toilet at a club i was at.he had spent all the stones money and looked at me like,this could be you in a few years,i never forgot that man"

Keith has described that everybody was helping out at Chess, not that Muddy was broke.

There also several quotes from the old blues guys where they thanked the Stones for kickstarting their careers again. In this film this appreciation was clearly stated by Buddy Guy.

The Stones were bigger than Creem, as you know, and Zeppelin weren't pure blues or r&b enough for those blues guys to get the same boost + they were even nastier and more cynical when they stole their songs

Guess you've never hear You Shook Me, How Many More Times, Travellin' Riverside Blues, Lemon Song, Bring It On Home, I can't Quit You Baby, Since I've Been Loving You, etc. etc. When Zeppelin played the blues they were more pure that the Stones ever were, imo.

Wow, I don't consider Led Zeppelin pure blues at all. No one had ever drummed or sang the blues the way bonham and plant did until they came along, outside of perhaps the Jimi Hendrix Experience (RIP). The only thing remarkable about led Zeppelin in fact was the way they changed the blues into something else.

There are pure blues versions of most of the songs you list (since a lot of them are actually covers), I think you'll find that the arrangements are completely different.

Don't mistake good for pure, NL. Bonham didn't have a blues fiber in his body.

But my point was that rather that the old blues greats had something to thank the Stones for (and they did!). Zeppelin didn't have that particular influence on those old bluesmen. They had something else that was great, but that can be discussed in another thread.

I am aware Keith loved Muddy....I became a Stones fan because I was a Muddy fan and heard them do Can't be satisfied. I play a ton of Muddy's songs (whether he wrote em or not). I am a chess record freak


that in no way means Keith's mixed up stories do not deserve to be called out.

I prefer the truth I guess.

It has been called out for decades, but Keith claims he has a witness. That witness won't support him, though

Well, at least Bill confirmed that Muddy helped carry the luggage...

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Turner68

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Naturalust

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DandelionPowderman

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lem motlow
yes the stones turned alot of people onto the blues.and so did eric clapton and jimmy page and every other band and guitar player coming out of england in the 60's.

that doesnt give you a free pass to make up a bullshit story about a guy being so broke he had to paint a ceiling when he never was,

i read an article about this in blues musician magazine a few years ago and believe me they weren't happy about it and not nearly as understanding as rock fans are.

it would be like one of the guys in a young band saying "yeah,the stones really influenced us.i remember when they were broken up in the 80's i saw keith richards cleaning the toilet at a club i was at.he had spent all the stones money and looked at me like,this could be you in a few years,i never forgot that man"

Keith has described that everybody was helping out at Chess, not that Muddy was broke.

There also several quotes from the old blues guys where they thanked the Stones for kickstarting their careers again. In this film this appreciation was clearly stated by Buddy Guy.

The Stones were bigger than Creem, as you know, and Zeppelin weren't pure blues or r&b enough for those blues guys to get the same boost + they were even nastier and more cynical when they stole their songs

Guess you've never hear You Shook Me, How Many More Times, Travellin' Riverside Blues, Lemon Song, Bring It On Home, I can't Quit You Baby, Since I've Been Loving You, etc. etc. When Zeppelin played the blues they were more pure that the Stones ever were, imo.

Wow, I don't consider Led Zeppelin pure blues at all. No one had ever drummed or sang the blues the way bonham and plant did until they came along, outside of perhaps the Jimi Hendrix Experience (RIP). The only thing remarkable about led Zeppelin in fact was the way they changed the blues into something else.

There are pure blues versions of most of the songs you list (since a lot of them are actually covers), I think you'll find that the arrangements are completely different.

And as covers they padded the bank accounts of the originators better and probably helped those artist out more than anyone who brought the blues to the forefront by playing music influenced by them.

As far as Zeppelin being pure blues, to me it was pure electric blues, all you have to do is listen to them to figure that out. Listen to Bonham's drumming on You Shook Me and tell me it's not basically just a straight blues rhythm, and everythying else about the song is pretty pure blues too. He obviously had more than one fiber of blues in his body, your claim is outrageous. The fact that they made them their own (within the form) is just a testament to their greatness.

But here we go again, getting the feathers ruffled about the definition of the purity of a genre, obviously you guys are just wrong. LOL

In any case I stand by my statement that LZ played more pure blues than the Stones ever did.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015-09-22 00:42 by Naturalust.

Padded their bank accounts? Their own, you mean? Look at the credits!

I think you need to go further back in time, and not just rely on what you like personally, to find the pure stuff. That's what the Stones did, at least to a certain degree. Zeppelin made their own power version. Lovely and great, but obviously not pure as they challenged the format, the dynamics, the rhythm and not least the way they expressed themselves.

The Stones also did that in a way (IJWMLTY), but they clearly had a more purist focus when playing the blues. That's why songs like Honest I Do, Look What You've Done, Confessing The Blues and I Can't Be Satisfied are pure blues songs, whilst only a few were sped up or rearranged.

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duke richardson
and I have an image of Marshall Chess later telling Keith: " Muddy Waters was never in there painting that ceiling"..

Well, he would say that wouldn't he!

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Naturalust

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Turner68

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Naturalust

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DandelionPowderman

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lem motlow
yes the stones turned alot of people onto the blues.and so did eric clapton and jimmy page and every other band and guitar player coming out of england in the 60's.

that doesnt give you a free pass to make up a bullshit story about a guy being so broke he had to paint a ceiling when he never was,

i read an article about this in blues musician magazine a few years ago and believe me they weren't happy about it and not nearly as understanding as rock fans are.

it would be like one of the guys in a young band saying "yeah,the stones really influenced us.i remember when they were broken up in the 80's i saw keith richards cleaning the toilet at a club i was at.he had spent all the stones money and looked at me like,this could be you in a few years,i never forgot that man"

Keith has described that everybody was helping out at Chess, not that Muddy was broke.

There also several quotes from the old blues guys where they thanked the Stones for kickstarting their careers again. In this film this appreciation was clearly stated by Buddy Guy.

The Stones were bigger than Creem, as you know, and Zeppelin weren't pure blues or r&b enough for those blues guys to get the same boost + they were even nastier and more cynical when they stole their songs

Guess you've never hear You Shook Me, How Many More Times, Travellin' Riverside Blues, Lemon Song, Bring It On Home, I can't Quit You Baby, Since I've Been Loving You, etc. etc. When Zeppelin played the blues they were more pure that the Stones ever were, imo.

Wow, I don't consider Led Zeppelin pure blues at all. No one had ever drummed or sang the blues the way bonham and plant did until they came along, outside of perhaps the Jimi Hendrix Experience (RIP). The only thing remarkable about led Zeppelin in fact was the way they changed the blues into something else.

There are pure blues versions of most of the songs you list (since a lot of them are actually covers), I think you'll find that the arrangements are completely different.

And as covers they padded the bank accounts of the originators better and probably helped those artist out more than anyone who brought the blues to the forefront by playing music influenced by them.

As far as Zeppelin being pure blues, to me it was pure electric blues, all you have to do is listen to them to figure that out. Listen to Bonham's drumming on You Shook Me and tell me it's not basically just a straight blues rhythm, and everythying else about the song is pretty pure blues too. He obviously had more than one fiber of blues in his body, your claim is outrageous. The fact that they made them their own (within the form) is just a testament to their greatness.

But here we go again, getting the feathers ruffled about the definition of the purity of a genre, obviously you guys are just wrong. LOL

In any case I stand by my statement that LZ played more pure blues than the Stones ever did.

fair enough ;-) we can split the difference on the reggae and blues argument and call it even? LOL.

There's a great interview with the filmmaker here.

Interestingly, as we might have guessed, it started as a promotional film. It was never really billed as anything more. And yet still, it's a nice tribute to Keith's influences.

Excerpts:

What was the original idea behind making this doc?

First of all, it was most definitely not supposed to be a film. I got a call from [Richards'] manager, Jane. She wanted to know if I wanted to interview him to have something to go around the new album. [...] Then I heard the record and it had all these different influences. I came up with this idea that I’d show up at his house with a pile of vinyl and a turntable, and that we would just talk about all of these different influences in his life. He came in and immediately started going through the records. It was George Jones, Lightning Hopkins, Johnny Cash, Loretta Lynn, The Flying Burrito Brothers. He started playing songs and we had this amazing three hour interview. At the end, Jane said, "God, that was great. Keith had a great time. We should keep filming. But we’re not going to make a documentary."

and I found this super interesting:

You interviewed him for your Muddy Waters doc, “Can’t Be Satisfied,” and you also worked with him on “Crossfire Hurricane.” Was there any difference between him then compared to now?

Sure. I think it made it a little easier for me because I was less intimidated. I don’t think it made any difference to him, because he’s never intimidated by anything. But I will say, "Can’t Be Satisfied," it was 2002 maybe, and he was great then, but he seems much happier and much sharper now than then. It’s funny. [He's] even more intelligible, because he has a very unique way of speaking. I remember that interview from "Can’t Be Satisfied," I could understand about 50 percent of what he said, and on this film I could understand 80 to 85 percent of what he said. I don’t know what the difference was. He just seemed a little more present now.

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Turner68
fair enough ;-) we can split the difference on the reggae and blues argument and call it even? LOL.

Sounds fair to me Turner, but still I reserve the right to call you out on country, bluegrass, rap, R&B, hip hop, folk, Americana and anything else that might come up.

Loved it. Keith's all full of quips.

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Naturalust

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Turner68
fair enough ;-) we can split the difference on the reggae and blues argument and call it even? LOL.

Sounds fair to me Turner, but still I reserve the right to call you out on country, bluegrass, rap, R&B, hip hop, folk, Americana and anything else that might come up.

Keep calling us out indeed. It's boring if everybody agrees on everything. And I always treasure your views, or else I wouldn't be bothered with commenting them



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015-09-22 23:49 by DandelionPowderman.

Finally saw it. Loved it all but especially how SFM waa recorded and his demo of playing acoustic through the tape recorder was fabulous. And LOVED how he talked about his dad and family! ! Actually made me love Keith even more!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015-09-23 00:06 by DrPete.